Should the Black Panthers (OG, BPCW) and the Wolverines (OG, WX, X23) counter miss/untouchable?

Comments

• Kingering_King Member Posts: 1,064 ★★★

  October 21

  Yes---why?

  Vibranium/Adamantium both strong metals. Should slice through miss

  9
• captain_rogers Member Posts: 9,608 ★★★★★

  October 21

  No--why not?

  There are a ton of mutants who counter miss, including wpx who I believe ramps faster if misses.

  3
• Terminatrix Member Posts: 2,950 ★★★★★

  October 21

  captain_rogers said:

  There are a ton of mutants who counter miss, including wpx who I believe ramps faster if misses.

  Well who are the others? And the "miss counter" I'm referring to is the ability to still attack the defender when they're invisible, not ramping up faster.

  0
• Squidopus Member Posts: 544 ★★★

  October 21

  No--why not?

  Terminatrix said:

  captain_rogers said:

  There are a ton of mutants who counter miss, including wpx who I believe ramps faster if misses.

  Well who are the others? And the "miss counter" I'm referring to is the ability to still attack the defender when they're invisible, not ramping up faster.

  Red Mags against metal champs, as well as Onslaught, Dani, and Professor X.

  1
• Squidopus Member Posts: 544 ★★★

  October 21

  No--why not?

  Tagging miss countering to most of these champs just feels like a weird half-measure. Sure you can justify it and all but what’s really the point? Champs like X-23, OML, and BPCW need a proper buff rather than a basic ability addition, and Wolverine and OGBP aren’t gonna start making waves off of this one change. It’s not gonna move the needle on any of them, just save the effort for when they can get an actual overhaul rather than a pity buff.

  4
• _Pez_ Member Posts: 276 ★★★

  October 21

  No--why not?

  Only upgrade I'd like the wolverines to get would be to be able to rupture if bleed immune since those claws should do some damage even to things that don't bleed. In the animated series the only thing wolverine got to attack was machines!

  2
• EdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,656 ★★★★★

  October 21

  Yes---why?

  Black Panther makes sense but I don't think Wolvie does.

  0
• Twodayhang0ver Member Posts: 17 ★

  October 21

  Yes---why?

  Wolverine’s heightened senses would perfectly explain why he can’t miss

  1
• Fryday Member Posts: 1,135 ★★★★

  October 21

  See I don't really relate Wolverine to a miss counter.
  
  His heightened sense mean he can find thing, but it doesn't mean his hit is accurate.
  
  I always see Wolverine more of aggressive than accurate.
  
  If we are talking about Mutant that could be a miss counter, I would go with Psylock, since she is psychic.
  
  She could do with a tune up and while Kabam at it maybe update her look too, seem a bit boring right now.

  3
• EdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,656 ★★★★★

  October 21

  Yes---why?

  Fryday said:

  See I don't really relate Wolverine to a miss counter.
  
  His heightened sense mean he can find thing, but it doesn't mean his hit is accurate.
  
  I always see Wolverine more of aggressive than accurate.
  
  If we are talking about Mutant that could be a miss counter, I would go with Psylock, since she is psychic.
  
  She could do with a tune up and while Kabam at it maybe update her look too, seem a bit boring right now.

  I kinda hope she's the mutant rework because she has connections to Spiral and Dazzler

  1
• Terminatrix Member Posts: 2,950 ★★★★★

  October 21

  EdisonLaw said:

  Black Panther makes sense but I don't think Wolvie does.

  Wolverine has heightened sense of smell that can detect invisible things. He's shown this in the X-Men cartoons.

  3
• EdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,656 ★★★★★

  October 21

  Yes---why?

  Terminatrix said:

  EdisonLaw said:

  Black Panther makes sense but I don't think Wolvie does.

  Wolverine has heightened sense of smell that can detect invisible things. He's shown this in the X-Men cartoons.

  That does make sense.
  
  In addition Black Panther should inflict rupture vs bleed immune

  3
• Childish_Almino Member Posts: 50 ★

  October 21

  No--why not?

  Wolverine is a tracker, he should counter evade, which many skill champs can do.

  2
• Terminatrix Member Posts: 2,950 ★★★★★

  October 21

  Childish_Almino said:

  Wolverine is a tracker, he should counter evade, which many skill champs can do.

  He's a tracker because of his heightened sense of smell. Countering evade would be a nice ability upgrade. He can also smell invisible things though....infared beams for example, as mentioned in the X-Men cartoons. So countering miss isn't out of his ability.

  0
• DNA3000 Member, Guardian Guardian › Posts: 19,677 Guardian

  October 21

  Terminatrix said:

  Childish_Almino said:

  Wolverine is a tracker, he should counter evade, which many skill champs can do.

  He's a tracker because of his heightened sense of smell. Countering evade would be a nice ability upgrade. He can also smell invisible things though....infared beams for example, as mentioned in the X-Men cartoons. So countering miss isn't out of his ability.

  While you can theoretically justify this, it is a very weak justification. If all it took to counter miss was to be able to detect things by smell, then all the more so all psychics should be able to counter miss as detecting thoughts is bound to be more accurate than smell. And all robots should counter miss as they almost certainly have sensors far superior to human sight, smell, and hearing. And all beings possessing the power cosmic, like Silver Surfer, Air Walker, and Terrax should possess cosmic awareness which should be able to detect the presence of targets at least as good as smell.
  
  Also, I’m pretty sure in the cartoon in question Wolverine says he smells the ozone given off by the security system, not the actual infrared beams because smelling infrared beams is not a thing that can happen because light does not give off an odor by itself to smell. And being able to smell invisible things is not specific to Wolverine, because scent molecules are, for the most part, not visible to the naked eye. Everyone smells invisible things.
  
  Miss is a game mechanic, not a physics property. Some things you miss because they are invisible, like Hood. Some things you miss because they are intangible, like Viv Vision. Some things you miss because they psychically prevent you from detecting them, like Stryfe. And Mysterious confuses attackers with Illusions, causing them to sometimes attack an illusion instead of the real Mysterio. When you give a champion the ability to counter miss, they are going to, in general, counter the entire basket of miss abilities, many of which will not be consistent with their miss justification. There must be a game design or game balance reason for giving a champion miss countering abilities beyond “it makes sense” because it won’t make sense conceptually all the time.
  
  Bullseye doesn’t miss in MCOC because Bullseye is the guy that doesn’t miss. In the comics he can’t hit intangible things or block psychic abilities (last I checked), so he would still miss those things. But in MCOC, he hits all of them because he is The Guy That Doesn’t Miss. Wolverine is not.specifically known as someone who never misses. He’s not demonstrated to be able to hit what others can’t hit. Seeing through disguises, sensing when someone is actually in the room, that sort of thing is definitely in his wheelhouse. But hitting what normally can’t be hit is not.

  8
• Terminatrix Member Posts: 2,950 ★★★★★

  October 21

  Squidopus said:

  Terminatrix said:

  captain_rogers said:

  There are a ton of mutants who counter miss, including wpx who I believe ramps faster if misses.

  Well who are the others? And the "miss counter" I'm referring to is the ability to still attack the defender when they're invisible, not ramping up faster.

  Red Mags against metal champs, as well as Onslaught, Dani, and Professor X.

  Aaah yes. Red Mags > metal. That one slipped my mind 😂 Now the others I didn't know about. Thanks for that info.

  0
• Terminatrix Member Posts: 2,950 ★★★★★

  October 21 edited October 21

  DNA3000 said:

  Terminatrix said:

  Childish_Almino said:

  Wolverine is a tracker, he should counter evade, which many skill champs can do.

  He's a tracker because of his heightened sense of smell. Countering evade would be a nice ability upgrade. He can also smell invisible things though....infared beams for example, as mentioned in the X-Men cartoons. So countering miss isn't out of his ability.

  While you can theoretically justify this, it is a very weak justification. If all it took to counter miss was to be able to detect things by smell, then all the more so all psychics should be able to counter miss as detecting thoughts is bound to be more accurate than smell. And all robots should counter miss as they almost certainly have sensors far superior to human sight, smell, and hearing. And all beings possessing the power cosmic, like Silver Surfer, Air Walker, and Terrax should possess cosmic awareness which should be able to detect the presence of targets at least as good as smell.
  
  Also, I’m pretty sure in the cartoon in question Wolverine says he smells the ozone given off by the security system, not the actual infrared beams because smelling infrared beams is not a thing that can happen because light does not give off an odor by itself to smell. And being able to smell invisible things is not specific to Wolverine, because scent molecules are, for the most part, not visible to the naked eye. Everyone smells invisible things.
  
  Miss is a game mechanic, not a physics property. Some things you miss because they are invisible, like Hood. Some things you miss because they are intangible, like Viv Vision. Some things you miss because they psychically prevent you from detecting them, like Stryfe. And Mysterious confuses attackers with Illusions, causing them to sometimes attack an illusion instead of the real Mysterio. When you give a champion the ability to counter miss, they are going to, in general, counter the entire basket of miss abilities, many of which will not be consistent with their miss justification. There must be a game design or game balance reason for giving a champion miss countering abilities beyond “it makes sense” because it won’t make sense conceptually all the time.
  
  Bullseye doesn’t miss in MCOC because Bullseye is the guy that doesn’t miss. In the comics he can’t hit intangible things or block psychic abilities (last I checked), so he would still miss those things. But in MCOC, he hits all of them because he is The Guy That Doesn’t Miss. Wolverine is not.specifically known as someone who never misses. He’s not demonstrated to be able to hit what others can’t hit. Seeing through disguises, sensing when someone is actually in the room, that sort of thing is definitely in his wheelhouse. But hitting what normally can’t be hit is not.

  I have seen this cartoon a hundred times.
  
  In the Night of the Sentinel's episode pt. 1, he references "ozone" because that was Beast's response to Rogue when she asked what causes mutations. Beast mentioned a number of things, and one of them was "ozone depletion". Wolverine was up in a tree, listening to their conversation.
  
  In Night of the Sentinel's Pt. 2 during the X-Men's break-in at the Mutant Registration Agency, Wolverine stopped them from walking into into the motion sensor saying "Hold it...electronic beams". Beast then asks him if he could detect infared spectrum, Wolverine said "I can smell them"..then points to his nose and says "Ozone"..repeating what Beast said in Ep 1. And in other words..he was crediting his mutant DNA for that ability.
  
  If he can smell, or sense, what can't be seen, then surely that can somehow be applied to his character in the game.

  2
• Terminatrix Member Posts: 2,950 ★★★★★

  October 21

  Fryday said:

  See I don't really relate Wolverine to a miss counter.
  
  His heightened sense mean he can find thing, but it doesn't mean his hit is accurate.
  
  I always see Wolverine more of aggressive than accurate.
  
  If we are talking about Mutant that could be a miss counter, I would go with Psylock, since she is psychic.
  
  She could do with a tune up and while Kabam at it maybe update her look too, seem a bit boring right now.

  Interesting take about accurate hit 🤔 So then a tracking ability would be more accurate than miss?

  0
• EdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,656 ★★★★★

  October 21 edited October 21

  Yes---why?

  DNA3000 said:

  Terminatrix said:

  Childish_Almino said:

  Wolverine is a tracker, he should counter evade, which many skill champs can do.

  He's a tracker because of his heightened sense of smell. Countering evade would be a nice ability upgrade. He can also smell invisible things though....infared beams for example, as mentioned in the X-Men cartoons. So countering miss isn't out of his ability.

  While you can theoretically justify this, it is a very weak justification. If all it took to counter miss was to be able to detect things by smell, then all the more so all psychics should be able to counter miss as detecting thoughts is bound to be more accurate than smell. And all robots should counter miss as they almost certainly have sensors far superior to human sight, smell, and hearing. And all beings possessing the power cosmic, like Silver Surfer, Air Walker, and Terrax should possess cosmic awareness which should be able to detect the presence of targets at least as good as smell.
  
  Also, I’m pretty sure in the cartoon in question Wolverine says he smells the ozone given off by the security system, not the actual infrared beams because smelling infrared beams is not a thing that can happen because light does not give off an odor by itself to smell. And being able to smell invisible things is not specific to Wolverine, because scent molecules are, for the most part, not visible to the naked eye. Everyone smells invisible things.
  
  Miss is a game mechanic, not a physics property. Some things you miss because they are invisible, like Hood. Some things you miss because they are intangible, like Viv Vision. Some things you miss because they psychically prevent you from detecting them, like Stryfe. And Mysterious confuses attackers with Illusions, causing them to sometimes attack an illusion instead of the real Mysterio. When you give a champion the ability to counter miss, they are going to, in general, counter the entire basket of miss abilities, many of which will not be consistent with their miss justification. There must be a game design or game balance reason for giving a champion miss countering abilities beyond “it makes sense” because it won’t make sense conceptually all the time.
  
  Bullseye doesn’t miss in MCOC because Bullseye is the guy that doesn’t miss. In the comics he can’t hit intangible things or block psychic abilities (last I checked), so he would still miss those things. But in MCOC, he hits all of them because he is The Guy That Doesn’t Miss. Wolverine is not.specifically known as someone who never misses. He’s not demonstrated to be able to hit what others can’t hit. Seeing through disguises, sensing when someone is actually in the room, that sort of thing is definitely in his wheelhouse. But hitting what normally can’t be hit is not.

  Makes sense but I think Invisibility and Phasing should be different, for example Daredevil and Bullseye can still hit an intangible Ghost

  4
• FrostGiantLord Member Posts: 2,063 ★★★★

  October 22

  Yes---why?

  I think this could be a good addition. IMO we need more Miss and Falter counters in this game

  1
• Magrailothos Member Posts: 5,977 ★★★★★

  October 22

  EdisonLaw said:

  DNA3000 said:

  Terminatrix said:

  Childish_Almino said:

  Wolverine is a tracker, he should counter evade, which many skill champs can do.

  He's a tracker because of his heightened sense of smell. Countering evade would be a nice ability upgrade. He can also smell invisible things though....infared beams for example, as mentioned in the X-Men cartoons. So countering miss isn't out of his ability.

  While you can theoretically justify this, it is a very weak justification. If all it took to counter miss was to be able to detect things by smell, then all the more so all psychics should be able to counter miss as detecting thoughts is bound to be more accurate than smell. And all robots should counter miss as they almost certainly have sensors far superior to human sight, smell, and hearing. And all beings possessing the power cosmic, like Silver Surfer, Air Walker, and Terrax should possess cosmic awareness which should be able to detect the presence of targets at least as good as smell.
  
  Also, I’m pretty sure in the cartoon in question Wolverine says he smells the ozone given off by the security system, not the actual infrared beams because smelling infrared beams is not a thing that can happen because light does not give off an odor by itself to smell. And being able to smell invisible things is not specific to Wolverine, because scent molecules are, for the most part, not visible to the naked eye. Everyone smells invisible things.
  
  Miss is a game mechanic, not a physics property. Some things you miss because they are invisible, like Hood. Some things you miss because they are intangible, like Viv Vision. Some things you miss because they psychically prevent you from detecting them, like Stryfe. And Mysterious confuses attackers with Illusions, causing them to sometimes attack an illusion instead of the real Mysterio. When you give a champion the ability to counter miss, they are going to, in general, counter the entire basket of miss abilities, many of which will not be consistent with their miss justification. There must be a game design or game balance reason for giving a champion miss countering abilities beyond “it makes sense” because it won’t make sense conceptually all the time.
  
  Bullseye doesn’t miss in MCOC because Bullseye is the guy that doesn’t miss. In the comics he can’t hit intangible things or block psychic abilities (last I checked), so he would still miss those things. But in MCOC, he hits all of them because he is The Guy That Doesn’t Miss. Wolverine is not.specifically known as someone who never misses. He’s not demonstrated to be able to hit what others can’t hit. Seeing through disguises, sensing when someone is actually in the room, that sort of thing is definitely in his wheelhouse. But hitting what normally can’t be hit is not.

  Makes sense but I think Invisibility and Phasing should be different, for example Daredevil and Bullseye can still hit an intangible Ghost

  I completely agree that they should be different.
  
  But they aren't.
  
  If they were building the game from scratch right now, I think there would be a Phase mechanic (Viv, Ghost, Kitty) and a completely separate Miss mechanic for Invisibility/Illusions (Hood, Stryfe, Invisible Woman, Mysterio); and you'd need enhanced senses to counter one; and some kind of esoteric energy attacks to counter the other.
  
  However, that's not something Kabam are likely to spend time and energy on, any time soon.

  1
• Fryday Member Posts: 1,135 ★★★★

  October 22

  Terminatrix said:

  Fryday said:

  See I don't really relate Wolverine to a miss counter.
  
  His heightened sense mean he can find thing, but it doesn't mean his hit is accurate.
  
  I always see Wolverine more of aggressive than accurate.
  
  If we are talking about Mutant that could be a miss counter, I would go with Psylock, since she is psychic.
  
  She could do with a tune up and while Kabam at it maybe update her look too, seem a bit boring right now.

  Interesting take about accurate hit 🤔 So then a tracking ability would be more accurate than miss?

  So for me I think I see it more like this.
  
  Accuracy and Precision, require mental focus, calm, calculation.
  
  When I think of Wolverine, I think wild, emotion, instinct, reactive, aggressive. These are qualities that I would think cloud Accuracy and Precision.
  
  So Wolverine can find somebody, but once he start fighting, he lose those focus and go into instinct fight more.
  
  Maybe this is too much thought into a fiction comic character 🤣🤣🤣.
  
  But hey if Kabam would tune up Wolverine, I won't be complaining 🤣

  1
• Childish_Almino Member Posts: 50 ★

  October 22

  No--why not?

  Terminatrix said:

  Childish_Almino said:

  Wolverine is a tracker, he should counter evade, which many skill champs can do.

  He's a tracker because of his heightened sense of smell. Countering evade would be a nice ability upgrade. He can also smell invisible things though....infared beams for example, as mentioned in the X-Men cartoons. So countering miss isn't out of his ability.

  I’d argue it would be somewhat unbalanced? I know he’s not a broken character but maybe lock it behind the enemy bleeding, so he smells the blood of some kind, thus making robots still good against him.
  

  2
• WednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,471 ★★★

  October 22

  I mean maybe? Obviously there's character justification to varying degrees but it's also about how that would actually benefit the characters beyond just giving them another ability. Black Panther already has daar which can prevent it, but him being able to counter miss might work for him as a photon or spot counter, but who would wolverine need to counter miss against in the skill class?
  
  Miss also isn't just invisibility, it's intangibility, which smelling someone wouldn't fix

  0
• Super_Cretu90 Member Posts: 219 ★

  October 22

  No--why not?

  _Pez_ said:

  Only upgrade I'd like the wolverines to get would be to be able to rupture if bleed immune since those claws should do some damage even to things that don't bleed. In the animated series the only thing wolverine got to attack was machines!

  I agree. But I would also like him to get "critical bleed/rupture" on his critical hits, like in his Apocalypse synergy. This is the only thing I would change about him that would really make him a good attacker.

  1
• Terminatrix Member Posts: 2,950 ★★★★★

  October 22

  Fryday said:

  Terminatrix said:

  Fryday said:

  See I don't really relate Wolverine to a miss counter.
  
  His heightened sense mean he can find thing, but it doesn't mean his hit is accurate.
  
  I always see Wolverine more of aggressive than accurate.
  
  If we are talking about Mutant that could be a miss counter, I would go with Psylock, since she is psychic.
  
  She could do with a tune up and while Kabam at it maybe update her look too, seem a bit boring right now.

  Interesting take about accurate hit 🤔 So then a tracking ability would be more accurate than miss?

  So for me I think I see it more like this.
  
  Accuracy and Precision, require mental focus, calm, calculation.
  
  When I think of Wolverine, I think wild, emotion, instinct, reactive, aggressive. These are qualities that I would think cloud Accuracy and Precision.
  
  So Wolverine can find somebody, but once he start fighting, he lose those focus and go into instinct fight more.
  
  Maybe this is too much thought into a fiction comic character 🤣🤣🤣.
  
  But hey if Kabam would tune up Wolverine, I won't be complaining 🤣

  Nah this actually a good point about accuracy and precision, and it makes sense for the skill class to have.
  

  1
• Terminatrix Member Posts: 2,950 ★★★★★

  October 22

  EdisonLaw said:

  DNA3000 said:

  Terminatrix said:

  Childish_Almino said:

  Wolverine is a tracker, he should counter evade, which many skill champs can do.

  He's a tracker because of his heightened sense of smell. Countering evade would be a nice ability upgrade. He can also smell invisible things though....infared beams for example, as mentioned in the X-Men cartoons. So countering miss isn't out of his ability.

  While you can theoretically justify this, it is a very weak justification. If all it took to counter miss was to be able to detect things by smell, then all the more so all psychics should be able to counter miss as detecting thoughts is bound to be more accurate than smell. And all robots should counter miss as they almost certainly have sensors far superior to human sight, smell, and hearing. And all beings possessing the power cosmic, like Silver Surfer, Air Walker, and Terrax should possess cosmic awareness which should be able to detect the presence of targets at least as good as smell.
  
  Also, I’m pretty sure in the cartoon in question Wolverine says he smells the ozone given off by the security system, not the actual infrared beams because smelling infrared beams is not a thing that can happen because light does not give off an odor by itself to smell. And being able to smell invisible things is not specific to Wolverine, because scent molecules are, for the most part, not visible to the naked eye. Everyone smells invisible things.
  
  Miss is a game mechanic, not a physics property. Some things you miss because they are invisible, like Hood. Some things you miss because they are intangible, like Viv Vision. Some things you miss because they psychically prevent you from detecting them, like Stryfe. And Mysterious confuses attackers with Illusions, causing them to sometimes attack an illusion instead of the real Mysterio. When you give a champion the ability to counter miss, they are going to, in general, counter the entire basket of miss abilities, many of which will not be consistent with their miss justification. There must be a game design or game balance reason for giving a champion miss countering abilities beyond “it makes sense” because it won’t make sense conceptually all the time.
  
  Bullseye doesn’t miss in MCOC because Bullseye is the guy that doesn’t miss. In the comics he can’t hit intangible things or block psychic abilities (last I checked), so he would still miss those things. But in MCOC, he hits all of them because he is The Guy That Doesn’t Miss. Wolverine is not.specifically known as someone who never misses. He’s not demonstrated to be able to hit what others can’t hit. Seeing through disguises, sensing when someone is actually in the room, that sort of thing is definitely in his wheelhouse. But hitting what normally can’t be hit is not.

  Makes sense but I think Invisibility and Phasing should be different, for example Daredevil and Bullseye can still hit an intangible Ghost

  You know, I get Daredevil being able to do this because of his enhanced senses from blindness, but Bullseye? Those two are different.

  0
• captain_rogers Member Posts: 9,608 ★★★★★

  October 22

  No--why not?

  Terminatrix said:

  EdisonLaw said:

  DNA3000 said:

  Terminatrix said:

  Childish_Almino said:

  Wolverine is a tracker, he should counter evade, which many skill champs can do.

  He's a tracker because of his heightened sense of smell. Countering evade would be a nice ability upgrade. He can also smell invisible things though....infared beams for example, as mentioned in the X-Men cartoons. So countering miss isn't out of his ability.

  While you can theoretically justify this, it is a very weak justification. If all it took to counter miss was to be able to detect things by smell, then all the more so all psychics should be able to counter miss as detecting thoughts is bound to be more accurate than smell. And all robots should counter miss as they almost certainly have sensors far superior to human sight, smell, and hearing. And all beings possessing the power cosmic, like Silver Surfer, Air Walker, and Terrax should possess cosmic awareness which should be able to detect the presence of targets at least as good as smell.
  
  Also, I’m pretty sure in the cartoon in question Wolverine says he smells the ozone given off by the security system, not the actual infrared beams because smelling infrared beams is not a thing that can happen because light does not give off an odor by itself to smell. And being able to smell invisible things is not specific to Wolverine, because scent molecules are, for the most part, not visible to the naked eye. Everyone smells invisible things.
  
  Miss is a game mechanic, not a physics property. Some things you miss because they are invisible, like Hood. Some things you miss because they are intangible, like Viv Vision. Some things you miss because they psychically prevent you from detecting them, like Stryfe. And Mysterious confuses attackers with Illusions, causing them to sometimes attack an illusion instead of the real Mysterio. When you give a champion the ability to counter miss, they are going to, in general, counter the entire basket of miss abilities, many of which will not be consistent with their miss justification. There must be a game design or game balance reason for giving a champion miss countering abilities beyond “it makes sense” because it won’t make sense conceptually all the time.
  
  Bullseye doesn’t miss in MCOC because Bullseye is the guy that doesn’t miss. In the comics he can’t hit intangible things or block psychic abilities (last I checked), so he would still miss those things. But in MCOC, he hits all of them because he is The Guy That Doesn’t Miss. Wolverine is not.specifically known as someone who never misses. He’s not demonstrated to be able to hit what others can’t hit. Seeing through disguises, sensing when someone is actually in the room, that sort of thing is definitely in his wheelhouse. But hitting what normally can’t be hit is not.

  Makes sense but I think Invisibility and Phasing should be different, for example Daredevil and Bullseye can still hit an intangible Ghost

  You know, I get Daredevil being able to do this because of his enhanced senses from blindness, but Bullseye? Those two are different.

  cuz he is bullseye. He can't miss.

  0
• EdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,656 ★★★★★

  October 22

  Yes---why?

  Terminatrix said:

  EdisonLaw said:

  DNA3000 said:

  Terminatrix said:

  Childish_Almino said:

  Wolverine is a tracker, he should counter evade, which many skill champs can do.

  He's a tracker because of his heightened sense of smell. Countering evade would be a nice ability upgrade. He can also smell invisible things though....infared beams for example, as mentioned in the X-Men cartoons. So countering miss isn't out of his ability.

  While you can theoretically justify this, it is a very weak justification. If all it took to counter miss was to be able to detect things by smell, then all the more so all psychics should be able to counter miss as detecting thoughts is bound to be more accurate than smell. And all robots should counter miss as they almost certainly have sensors far superior to human sight, smell, and hearing. And all beings possessing the power cosmic, like Silver Surfer, Air Walker, and Terrax should possess cosmic awareness which should be able to detect the presence of targets at least as good as smell.
  
  Also, I’m pretty sure in the cartoon in question Wolverine says he smells the ozone given off by the security system, not the actual infrared beams because smelling infrared beams is not a thing that can happen because light does not give off an odor by itself to smell. And being able to smell invisible things is not specific to Wolverine, because scent molecules are, for the most part, not visible to the naked eye. Everyone smells invisible things.
  
  Miss is a game mechanic, not a physics property. Some things you miss because they are invisible, like Hood. Some things you miss because they are intangible, like Viv Vision. Some things you miss because they psychically prevent you from detecting them, like Stryfe. And Mysterious confuses attackers with Illusions, causing them to sometimes attack an illusion instead of the real Mysterio. When you give a champion the ability to counter miss, they are going to, in general, counter the entire basket of miss abilities, many of which will not be consistent with their miss justification. There must be a game design or game balance reason for giving a champion miss countering abilities beyond “it makes sense” because it won’t make sense conceptually all the time.
  
  Bullseye doesn’t miss in MCOC because Bullseye is the guy that doesn’t miss. In the comics he can’t hit intangible things or block psychic abilities (last I checked), so he would still miss those things. But in MCOC, he hits all of them because he is The Guy That Doesn’t Miss. Wolverine is not.specifically known as someone who never misses. He’s not demonstrated to be able to hit what others can’t hit. Seeing through disguises, sensing when someone is actually in the room, that sort of thing is definitely in his wheelhouse. But hitting what normally can’t be hit is not.

  Makes sense but I think Invisibility and Phasing should be different, for example Daredevil and Bullseye can still hit an intangible Ghost

  You know, I get Daredevil being able to do this because of his enhanced senses from blindness, but Bullseye? Those two are different.

  well Bullseye can't miss

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• Terminatrix Member Posts: 2,950 ★★★★★

  October 23

  captain_rogers said:

  Terminatrix said:

  EdisonLaw said:

  DNA3000 said:

  Terminatrix said:

  Childish_Almino said:

  Wolverine is a tracker, he should counter evade, which many skill champs can do.

  He's a tracker because of his heightened sense of smell. Countering evade would be a nice ability upgrade. He can also smell invisible things though....infared beams for example, as mentioned in the X-Men cartoons. So countering miss isn't out of his ability.

  While you can theoretically justify this, it is a very weak justification. If all it took to counter miss was to be able to detect things by smell, then all the more so all psychics should be able to counter miss as detecting thoughts is bound to be more accurate than smell. And all robots should counter miss as they almost certainly have sensors far superior to human sight, smell, and hearing. And all beings possessing the power cosmic, like Silver Surfer, Air Walker, and Terrax should possess cosmic awareness which should be able to detect the presence of targets at least as good as smell.
  
  Also, I’m pretty sure in the cartoon in question Wolverine says he smells the ozone given off by the security system, not the actual infrared beams because smelling infrared beams is not a thing that can happen because light does not give off an odor by itself to smell. And being able to smell invisible things is not specific to Wolverine, because scent molecules are, for the most part, not visible to the naked eye. Everyone smells invisible things.
  
  Miss is a game mechanic, not a physics property. Some things you miss because they are invisible, like Hood. Some things you miss because they are intangible, like Viv Vision. Some things you miss because they psychically prevent you from detecting them, like Stryfe. And Mysterious confuses attackers with Illusions, causing them to sometimes attack an illusion instead of the real Mysterio. When you give a champion the ability to counter miss, they are going to, in general, counter the entire basket of miss abilities, many of which will not be consistent with their miss justification. There must be a game design or game balance reason for giving a champion miss countering abilities beyond “it makes sense” because it won’t make sense conceptually all the time.
  
  Bullseye doesn’t miss in MCOC because Bullseye is the guy that doesn’t miss. In the comics he can’t hit intangible things or block psychic abilities (last I checked), so he would still miss those things. But in MCOC, he hits all of them because he is The Guy That Doesn’t Miss. Wolverine is not.specifically known as someone who never misses. He’s not demonstrated to be able to hit what others can’t hit. Seeing through disguises, sensing when someone is actually in the room, that sort of thing is definitely in his wheelhouse. But hitting what normally can’t be hit is not.

  Makes sense but I think Invisibility and Phasing should be different, for example Daredevil and Bullseye can still hit an intangible Ghost

  You know, I get Daredevil being able to do this because of his enhanced senses from blindness, but Bullseye? Those two are different.

  cuz he is bullseye. He can't miss.

  EdisonLaw said:

  Terminatrix said:

  EdisonLaw said:

  DNA3000 said:

  Terminatrix said:

  Childish_Almino said:

  Wolverine is a tracker, he should counter evade, which many skill champs can do.

  He's a tracker because of his heightened sense of smell. Countering evade would be a nice ability upgrade. He can also smell invisible things though....infared beams for example, as mentioned in the X-Men cartoons. So countering miss isn't out of his ability.

  While you can theoretically justify this, it is a very weak justification. If all it took to counter miss was to be able to detect things by smell, then all the more so all psychics should be able to counter miss as detecting thoughts is bound to be more accurate than smell. And all robots should counter miss as they almost certainly have sensors far superior to human sight, smell, and hearing. And all beings possessing the power cosmic, like Silver Surfer, Air Walker, and Terrax should possess cosmic awareness which should be able to detect the presence of targets at least as good as smell.
  
  Also, I’m pretty sure in the cartoon in question Wolverine says he smells the ozone given off by the security system, not the actual infrared beams because smelling infrared beams is not a thing that can happen because light does not give off an odor by itself to smell. And being able to smell invisible things is not specific to Wolverine, because scent molecules are, for the most part, not visible to the naked eye. Everyone smells invisible things.
  
  Miss is a game mechanic, not a physics property. Some things you miss because they are invisible, like Hood. Some things you miss because they are intangible, like Viv Vision. Some things you miss because they psychically prevent you from detecting them, like Stryfe. And Mysterious confuses attackers with Illusions, causing them to sometimes attack an illusion instead of the real Mysterio. When you give a champion the ability to counter miss, they are going to, in general, counter the entire basket of miss abilities, many of which will not be consistent with their miss justification. There must be a game design or game balance reason for giving a champion miss countering abilities beyond “it makes sense” because it won’t make sense conceptually all the time.
  
  Bullseye doesn’t miss in MCOC because Bullseye is the guy that doesn’t miss. In the comics he can’t hit intangible things or block psychic abilities (last I checked), so he would still miss those things. But in MCOC, he hits all of them because he is The Guy That Doesn’t Miss. Wolverine is not.specifically known as someone who never misses. He’s not demonstrated to be able to hit what others can’t hit. Seeing through disguises, sensing when someone is actually in the room, that sort of thing is definitely in his wheelhouse. But hitting what normally can’t be hit is not.

  Makes sense but I think Invisibility and Phasing should be different, for example Daredevil and Bullseye can still hit an intangible Ghost

  You know, I get Daredevil being able to do this because of his enhanced senses from blindness, but Bullseye? Those two are different.

  well Bullseye can't miss

  Not missing tangible, moving targets makes sense for Bullseye since he has sharpened SKILLS. Hitting the Invisible targets doesn't make sense lol. That's something that should require enhanced senses like what Daredevil amd Wolverine has.

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