Heart of Fire Apocalypse needs a tiny tiny tweak to be relevant in 2025

Hey guys
How about you change en sabah nur so that he starts battlegrounds with 4 charges? Both as a defender and as an attacker.

It’s not unheard of, serpent has a footnote in his description that adds charges in BG fights.

Comments

PT_99

Definitely needs this boost,
At least on attack

startropics

offense yes, def no

Asher1_1

Yeah why not buff serpent then 😂

Yaron_aviv

offense yes, def no

Why not? The block penetration of sp1 with 4 charges would make him formidable

Graves_3

offense yes, def no
Why not? The block penetration of sp1 with 4 charges would make him formidable

You answered your own question.

kus234

None of the champs are worth the chase . All released far too late . game has long ago moved too far away for these oldies to be any useful .

Yaron_aviv

None of the champs are worth the chase . All released far too late . game has long ago moved too far away for these oldies to be any useful .

Really? Because I have an itch only fury can scratch

Toyota_2015

offense yes, def no
Why not? The block penetration of sp1 with 4 charges would make him formidable
You answered your own question.

To be fair, his SP1 is absolutely dexable. His SP2 is a little more nasty, but it can also be dexed. Maybe 4 charges is a bit much (since I’m pretty sure that also lets him turn off Parry as well), but giving him a few extra charges in BG’s isn’t a terrible idea.

Yaron_aviv

offense yes, def no
Why not? The block penetration of sp1 with 4 charges would make him formidable
You answered your own question.
To be fair, his SP1 is absolutely dexable. His SP2 is a little more nasty, but it can also be dexed. Maybe 4 charges is a bit much (since I’m pretty sure that also lets him turn off Parry as well), but giving him a few extra charges in BG’s isn’t a terrible idea.

Interesting.
I can fully dex his sp2 on 60fps, but with sp1 I usually block the first two beams and dex the last to punish.

SirGamesBond

Apoc can be an occasional bg attacker.
But he was not intended to be (at that point of the game). He starts with 4 charges vs mutants.
He was a long questing machine.
He was useful in wars.

Im not expecting a buff. That's about it.

Toyota_2015

offense yes, def no
Why not? The block penetration of sp1 with 4 charges would make him formidable
You answered your own question.
To be fair, his SP1 is absolutely dexable. His SP2 is a little more nasty, but it can also be dexed. Maybe 4 charges is a bit much (since I’m pretty sure that also lets him turn off Parry as well), but giving him a few extra charges in BG’s isn’t a terrible idea.
Interesting.
I can fully dex his sp2 on 60fps, but with sp1 I usually block the first two beams and dex the last to punish.

I think, at least for me, it’s more of a timing thing. Every hit of his Special 1 has the same length of time between them so it’s easier to learn the rhythm of it. His Special 2 is a little weird though because his projectiles don’t have much of a delay between them, they have travel time so you have to gauge distance to determine the right time to dex, and he attacks pretty quickly after the last projectile so if you mistime that dex you’ll end up eating the rest of the special to the face. That idea scares me a little too much so I usually just block all of the projectiles and then dex the melee hit he does after that.

ItsClobberinTime

For offense yes, for defense it's a terrible idea. Maybe a couple charges would be fair but max would be overkill and not in a good way, not being able to stun him and him stunning you with this light would make him a nightmare on certain BGs metas. If they wanted to make him that strong of a defender then they would have to lower the charges he starts with on attack cause he'd be an insane dual threat to the point where it's not good for game health.
I do wish he started with max charges in BGs attack tho cause he'd be a viable attacker and I don't think it'd really be that broken despite what Kabam might say.

Armageddøn

Not every champ has to be a Bg threat imo, he’s made for Aw, Aq and long form content and he performs well there. If all ramp up champs started bg fights with max charges it won’t be fair lol don’t make it a trend

Yaron_aviv

Not every champ has to be a Bg threat imo, he’s made for Aw, Aq and long form content and he performs well there. If all ramp up champs started bg fights with max charges it won’t be fair lol don’t make it a trend

Why not though
He’s otherwise useless in a major game mode. Most of our rank ups are for BG - they’re bringing a champ that was gate kept for too long and giving him new life - if he’s not good for BG he’s gonna stay at r1.

What does apoc do that onslaught doesn’t?

SirGamesBond

Not every champ has to be a Bg threat imo, he’s made for Aw, Aq and long form content and he performs well there. If all ramp up champs started bg fights with max charges it won’t be fair lol don’t make it a trend
Why not though
He’s otherwise useless in a major game mode. Most of our rank ups are for BG - they’re bringing a champ that was gate kept for too long and giving him new life - if he’s not good for BG he’s gonna stay at r1.

What does apoc do that onslaught doesn’t?

Onslught cannot horseman and transfer OPness

captain_rogers

Guys if we demand hard we can get them changed. They listen us nowadays and 4 charges on either attack or defense (Not both obviously) would make him insane but balanced.

@KabamPinwheel Can you pass this suggestion to the game team?

Magrailothos

Not every champ has to be a Bg threat imo, he’s made for Aw, Aq and long form content and he performs well there. If all ramp up champs started bg fights with max charges it won’t be fair lol don’t make it a trend
Why not though
He’s otherwise useless in a major game mode. Most of our rank ups are for BG - they’re bringing a champ that was gate kept for too long and giving him new life - if he’s not good for BG he’s gonna stay at r1.

What does apoc do that onslaught doesn’t?

Make others into Horsemen?

Shut down Evade? (This is way more useful and reliable than people think... Although, I grant your, Onslaught shutting down Miss is equally valuable, possibly more so)

Be immune to Disorient?

Shut down Purify effects that could be turned against you? (Champs like Captain Britain and Dust, who can't Purify the debuffs they've placed on Apocalypse. There's a node that does this too; can't remember the name)

Deal with opponents on nodes like Do You Bleed, Bloody Mess, or Bleed/Poison vulnerability.

Also, fairly importantly:
You can only play with champions you've got.
So, if you've got Apocalypse and you don't have Onslaught, Apocalypse will have the huge advantage of being a champion you actually possess...

Having said all that, I agree that starting with a little more oomph in BGs would be a good thing.
I'd say +1 Genetic code starting on BGs Attack, and possibly an additional +1 as a bonus in his Sig ability.

Yaron_aviv

Not every champ has to be a Bg threat imo, he’s made for Aw, Aq and long form content and he performs well there. If all ramp up champs started bg fights with max charges it won’t be fair lol don’t make it a trend
Why not though
He’s otherwise useless in a major game mode. Most of our rank ups are for BG - they’re bringing a champ that was gate kept for too long and giving him new life - if he’s not good for BG he’s gonna stay at r1.

What does apoc do that onslaught doesn’t?
Make others into Horsemen?

Shut down Evade? (This is way more useful and reliable than people think... Although, I grant your, Onslaught shutting down Miss is equally valuable, possibly more so)

Be immune to Disorient?

Shut down Purify effects that could be turned against you? (Champs like Captain Britain and Dust, who can't Purify the debuffs they've placed on Apocalypse. There's a node that does this too; can't remember the name)

Deal with opponents on nodes like Do You Bleed, Bloody Mess, or Bleed/Poison vulnerability.

Also, fairly importantly:
You can only play with champions you've got.
So, if you've got Apocalypse and you don't have Onslaught, Apocalypse will have the huge advantage of being a champion you actually possess...

Having said all that, I agree that starting with a little more oomph in BGs would be a good thing.
I'd say +1 Genetic code starting on BGs Attack, and possibly an additional +1 as a bonus in his Sig ability.

Good answer.

I guess all champs are meant to represent the time they emerged in the contest. He came out when gradual ramp up champs were all the rage.

He was useful then, and on occasion he will be useful now , mostly in solo content and occasionally war.

But to get us excited, that tiny tweak will certainly do the trick. So I’m glad you agree with me on that.

Kappa2g

Considering Apocalypse with initially released in a MCOC where battlegrounds didn't exist, definitely can see this change being implemented.

Heck, they even modified IBom's interaction with mastery anticipating he will be meta as a 7*

Greekhit

Apocalypse is still a very good and very relevant champ.
But as @Kappa2g highlighted BGs didn’t existed when Apocalypse was initially released, and nowadays are the main focus for most players. Apocalypse lacks at BGs mainly as attacker because he is generally slow, he could use of a buff giving him the opportunity to start with more charges, to accompany his 7* release and make him even more desirable, increasing also profits for Kabam.
Win for the community, win for Kabam.
Personally, I believe 3 charges is the sweet spot for applying it to both on attack and defence at BGs 👍

ItsClobberinTime

Guys if we demand hard we can get them changed. They listen us nowadays and 4 charges on either attack or defense (Not both obviously) would make him insane but balanced.

@KabamPinwheel Can you pass this suggestion to the game team?

I don't think on defense it'd be fair tho what happens when you get a meta where you need to knock down with heavy constantly?
Or one where he goes unstoppable when he dashes in? You're basically just dead no matter what you do.

Skunkcabbage

Hey guys
How about you change en sabah nur so that he starts battlegrounds with 4 charges? Both as a defender and as an attacker.

It’s not unheard of, serpent has a footnote in his description that adds charges in BG fights.

Maybe they will just change him to be better like they did with iBom.

captain_rogers

Guys if we demand hard we can get them changed. They listen us nowadays and 4 charges on either attack or defense (Not both obviously) would make him insane but balanced.

@KabamPinwheel Can you pass this suggestion to the game team?
I don't think on defense it'd be fair tho what happens when you get a meta where you need to knock down with heavy constantly?
Or one where he goes unstoppable when he dashes in? You're basically just dead no matter what you do.

He only goes stun immune when he hits you. So champs who can chain heavy with basics can do him easily.

Also if you parry light attack he won't stun you. I'm pretty sure most AI will throw heavy after a ML combo so you can punish with heavy.

There are always some metas that supercharge champs. Like you think Gentle would be fair defender in another crit me meta? Nova had like 2 counters in fury + unstoppable meta. At least apoc is not that level unfair in any meta.

Also we are talking bout bg defense strictly here and not war defense. Apoc with 4 genetic code in bgs as an attacker ain't gonna do something extraordinary especially with all these new skill champs having cleanse. So I think he can have 4 genetic code in defense, if it's OP, then 4 charges against non robots.

ItsClobberinTime

Guys if we demand hard we can get them changed. They listen us nowadays and 4 charges on either attack or defense (Not both obviously) would make him insane but balanced.

@KabamPinwheel Can you pass this suggestion to the game team?
I don't think on defense it'd be fair tho what happens when you get a meta where you need to knock down with heavy constantly?
Or one where he goes unstoppable when he dashes in? You're basically just dead no matter what you do.
He only goes stun immune when he hits you. So champs who can chain heavy with basics can do him easily.

Also if you parry light attack he won't stun you. I'm pretty sure most AI will throw heavy after a ML combo so you can punish with heavy.

There are always some metas that supercharge champs. Like you think Gentle would be fair defender in another crit me meta? Nova had like 2 counters in fury + unstoppable meta. At least apoc is not that level unfair in any meta.

Also we are talking bout bg defense strictly here and not war defense. Apoc with 4 genetic code in bgs as an attacker ain't gonna do something extraordinary especially with all these new skill champs having cleanse. So I think he can have 4 genetic code in defense, if it's OP, then 4 charges against non robots.

He can have 4 genetic code on attack I'm only against it on defense because of how strong it'd be no way they'd be willing to give him 4 on attack and 4 on defense at the same time. 4 against non tech wouldn't be a bad idea though, if they do it that way I wouldn't be against it.

SoSA__Remake

If they can make tune changes to Ibom, They can most definitely change something with apoc.

captain_rogers

Guys if we demand hard we can get them changed. They listen us nowadays and 4 charges on either attack or defense (Not both obviously) would make him insane but balanced.

@KabamPinwheel Can you pass this suggestion to the game team?
I don't think on defense it'd be fair tho what happens when you get a meta where you need to knock down with heavy constantly?
Or one where he goes unstoppable when he dashes in? You're basically just dead no matter what you do.
He only goes stun immune when he hits you. So champs who can chain heavy with basics can do him easily.

Also if you parry light attack he won't stun you. I'm pretty sure most AI will throw heavy after a ML combo so you can punish with heavy.

There are always some metas that supercharge champs. Like you think Gentle would be fair defender in another crit me meta? Nova had like 2 counters in fury + unstoppable meta. At least apoc is not that level unfair in any meta.

Also we are talking bout bg defense strictly here and not war defense. Apoc with 4 genetic code in bgs as an attacker ain't gonna do something extraordinary especially with all these new skill champs having cleanse. So I think he can have 4 genetic code in defense, if it's OP, then 4 charges against non robots.
He can have 4 genetic code on attack I'm only against it on defense because of how strong it'd be no way they'd be willing to give him 4 on attack and 4 on defense at the same time. 4 against non tech wouldn't be a bad idea though, if they do it that way I wouldn't be against it.

Read again. Obviously I don't want them to give 4 on both. It's either offense or defense, but preferably defense as he'll be a good defendee in bgs and a great offensive champ for questing and war.

ItsClobberinTime

Guys if we demand hard we can get them changed. They listen us nowadays and 4 charges on either attack or defense (Not both obviously) would make him insane but balanced.

@KabamPinwheel Can you pass this suggestion to the game team?
I don't think on defense it'd be fair tho what happens when you get a meta where you need to knock down with heavy constantly?
Or one where he goes unstoppable when he dashes in? You're basically just dead no matter what you do.
He only goes stun immune when he hits you. So champs who can chain heavy with basics can do him easily.

Also if you parry light attack he won't stun you. I'm pretty sure most AI will throw heavy after a ML combo so you can punish with heavy.

There are always some metas that supercharge champs. Like you think Gentle would be fair defender in another crit me meta? Nova had like 2 counters in fury + unstoppable meta. At least apoc is not that level unfair in any meta.

Also we are talking bout bg defense strictly here and not war defense. Apoc with 4 genetic code in bgs as an attacker ain't gonna do something extraordinary especially with all these new skill champs having cleanse. So I think he can have 4 genetic code in defense, if it's OP, then 4 charges against non robots.
He can have 4 genetic code on attack I'm only against it on defense because of how strong it'd be no way they'd be willing to give him 4 on attack and 4 on defense at the same time. 4 against non tech wouldn't be a bad idea though, if they do it that way I wouldn't be against it.
Read again. Obviously I don't want them to give 4 on both. It's either offense or defense, but preferably defense as he'll be a good defendee in bgs and a great offensive champ for questing and war.

They could give him 4 for both attack and defense but just make it so he starts with only 3 if he's fighting a tech champ.

EdisonLaw

offense yes, def no
Why not? The block penetration of sp1 with 4 charges would make him formidable
You answered your own question.
To be fair, his SP1 is absolutely dexable. His SP2 is a little more nasty, but it can also be dexed. Maybe 4 charges is a bit much (since I’m pretty sure that also lets him turn off Parry as well), but giving him a few extra charges in BG’s isn’t a terrible idea.

I prefer dexing his sp2

ShodaiHighkage

offense yes, def no
Why not? The block penetration of sp1 with 4 charges would make him formidable
You answered your own question.
To be fair, his SP1 is absolutely dexable. His SP2 is a little more nasty, but it can also be dexed. Maybe 4 charges is a bit much (since I’m pretty sure that also lets him turn off Parry as well), but giving him a few extra charges in BG’s isn’t a terrible idea.
Interesting.
I can fully dex his sp2 on 60fps, but with sp1 I usually block the first two beams and dex the last to punish.

Just like Korg, trick is to start spamming dex as he stomps his foot.

Txthree1710

I would love to hear some feedbacks about this, hopefully before we get to the selector milestone as some people might want to choose apoc if this gets implemented. Or have a new relic that will give apoc 2 addtl prowess at the start of the fight.