Champion Spotlight - Sentry [Updated: Added 5-Star Stats]

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Comments

  • ThalionThalion Posts: 65
    edited January 2018
    Twunt wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Idelest wrote: »
    After taking a few days off I think its time to get back into this post.

    @GroundedWisdom what you are doing is playing the devil's advocate. I do the same thing very often. I even did the same with sentry at the start. I still hold that at sig 200 he won't be the worst champion in the game. I have faith I will find at least some use for him (without suicide masteries).

    But there is a big flaw in saying that not all champs should be OP. Obviously, we know this. Someone has to be the best. It is also a good idea to have more than 1 tier of champion to create diversity, especially in a game based on RNG, it gives people a reason to gamble a bit. The whole game is based on gambling.

    Now why would kabam's goal be to create a gambling system where some of their prizes are completely useless? It makes no sense. The prizes are the champions, each one should be desired or no gambling happens. Some are desired more than others, blade is the grand prize.

    Older champions have not been able to keep up with the state of the game specifically because newer champions and content are creating circumstances that they weren't designed to cope with. However, all new champions (2017) that have come out, literally all of them* have been extremely useful in some scenarios. Not all of them have been OP or in the top tier but all have had a niche.

    *With the exception of carnage. But you can't use carnage as an example! Kabam admitted that carnage was over powered and he was over nerfed to error on the side of caution. So the one exception to the rule has a perfectly reasonable explanation.

    To go on and say that it was kabam's intent to create a champion in the bottom tier with no utility is just incorrect. They mean for people to use all champions. Why would you go to the trouble of designing a champion that you intend to be a flop? Obviously something happened. Either he is not performing like they expected, they nerfed him pre launch, or his stats were released lower than they intended.

    It seems obvious that they overlooked the interaction with suicide masteries. He is the first and only champion in the game to have their own ability's negated by a mastery. All masteries are supposed to ADD something to the champions. Some work better than others with the masteries but Sentry is the only champion that actually loses an ability.

    @Twunt thanks the kind words.

    Completely useless is not a reasonable statement. If he was completely useless, he would inflict no Damage, and just stand there while he was KO'd.

    That's not true. If you want to play that game, then technically speaking if Sentry dealt 0.000001 dps he would still be useless, and thus that statement is factually incorrect. Also, if he dealt zero damage but was permanently invulnerable he'd be an excellent defender.

    Obviously if he was literally the only champion you possessed, you'd be forced to use him. But the question is, would you use him if you had any other alternatives? In almost all non-trivial cases, at the moment I would say no. And any champion that you wouldn't use because you're almost guaranteed to have something better is an essentially useless champion. His most interesting situational ability is for his special attacks to be unblockable. But they will only be unblockable for about 30% of the time per phase, and since you're only in the appropriate phases about 50% of the time that means you're only unblockable for 15% of the time, and on top of that you have to have your power bar synced to the right special attack at the moment the buff randomly appears. You'd be lucky to get unblockable specials 7% of the time.

    The problem with Sentry is that *if* you use him, then sometimes randomly interesting things might happen. But I currently wouldn't use him unless I had to, because those randomly interesting things are insufficient upside relative to practically all other champions.

    I have yet to form a complete opinion on him. I will agree that his Damage is low because it's dependent on the RNG, and the rate is fairly low. I think the concept is interesting, and with the Hulk Synergy he could have a slightly larger Damage output, possibly with another Crit Syn. Contemplating the use on the Abilities Trigger Node. I think what you were talking about previously is more apt for him. He's just fun to use because of the carry-over feature, and the shifting Abilities. I get what people are referring to. I'm just not on board with saying any Champ is useless.

    Now this is funny. “I have yet to form a complete opinion on him.” Are you kidding me? So by your own admission, you are ignorant of this champion that you have come on here to post 20 times about in disagreement. Does Kabam give out forum titles based on post count that I don’t know about?

    You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. Never formed an opinion to disagree 20 times. I don't form opinions on Champs prematurely. You'll never see me criticize a Champ that early into their existence. I will comment on the design and take the time to get to know them properly. I also look to information on the Forum, and sometimes have to filter through the responses. A good number of people tend to be blasé about a number of Champs. That's actually the most common initial reaction. I don't judge that quickly.

    yeaph, i see your point, but is not that hard to test him.

    He only have a few options in the kabam design

    1)Sp1/Sp2 unblockable
    2)100% Perfect block
    3)Damage bonus for sp1/sp2 heavy attack
    4)Healing
    5)Indestructible
    6)Fury
    7)Armor Break


    Numbers 1,2,3 fails hard just because the 30% chance to gain the state bonus, i could list more problems about this, but the 30% is enough

    4 - His healing is very poor design, he dosent healing that much, plus you lost 1 reality warp (It feels more like a punishment....)

    5 - Its ok i guess, but it could negate e3 damage...

    6 -Big problem here, the fury does not stack, plus there is a 70% chance, why 70% chance? no one knows and there is no reason for this 70% chance

    7- Same as fury



    so, do you think you really needs months of testing to see this? Is not that hard to test this things, a few fights and you start to see the problem , the 30% chance for his state is a fail in every single mode in this game

    is not that hard dude


  • Thalion wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Idelest wrote: »
    After taking a few days off I think its time to get back into this post.

    @GroundedWisdom what you are doing is playing the devil's advocate. I do the same thing very often. I even did the same with sentry at the start. I still hold that at sig 200 he won't be the worst champion in the game. I have faith I will find at least some use for him (without suicide masteries).

    But there is a big flaw in saying that not all champs should be OP. Obviously, we know this. Someone has to be the best. It is also a good idea to have more than 1 tier of champion to create diversity, especially in a game based on RNG, it gives people a reason to gamble a bit. The whole game is based on gambling.

    Now why would kabam's goal be to create a gambling system where some of their prizes are completely useless? It makes no sense. The prizes are the champions, each one should be desired or no gambling happens. Some are desired more than others, blade is the grand prize.

    Older champions have not been able to keep up with the state of the game specifically because newer champions and content are creating circumstances that they weren't designed to cope with. However, all new champions (2017) that have come out, literally all of them* have been extremely useful in some scenarios. Not all of them have been OP or in the top tier but all have had a niche.

    *With the exception of carnage. But you can't use carnage as an example! Kabam admitted that carnage was over powered and he was over nerfed to error on the side of caution. So the one exception to the rule has a perfectly reasonable explanation.

    To go on and say that it was kabam's intent to create a champion in the bottom tier with no utility is just incorrect. They mean for people to use all champions. Why would you go to the trouble of designing a champion that you intend to be a flop? Obviously something happened. Either he is not performing like they expected, they nerfed him pre launch, or his stats were released lower than they intended.

    It seems obvious that they overlooked the interaction with suicide masteries. He is the first and only champion in the game to have their own ability's negated by a mastery. All masteries are supposed to ADD something to the champions. Some work better than others with the masteries but Sentry is the only champion that actually loses an ability.

    @Twunt thanks the kind words.

    Completely useless is not a reasonable statement. If he was completely useless, he would inflict no Damage, and just stand there while he was KO'd.

    That's not true. If you want to play that game, then technically speaking if Sentry dealt 0.000001 dps he would still be useless, and thus that statement is factually incorrect. Also, if he dealt zero damage but was permanently invulnerable he'd be an excellent defender.

    Obviously if he was literally the only champion you possessed, you'd be forced to use him. But the question is, would you use him if you had any other alternatives? In almost all non-trivial cases, at the moment I would say no. And any champion that you wouldn't use because you're almost guaranteed to have something better is an essentially useless champion. His most interesting situational ability is for his special attacks to be unblockable. But they will only be unblockable for about 30% of the time per phase, and since you're only in the appropriate phases about 50% of the time that means you're only unblockable for 15% of the time, and on top of that you have to have your power bar synced to the right special attack at the moment the buff randomly appears. You'd be lucky to get unblockable specials 7% of the time.

    The problem with Sentry is that *if* you use him, then sometimes randomly interesting things might happen. But I currently wouldn't use him unless I had to, because those randomly interesting things are insufficient upside relative to practically all other champions.

    I have yet to form a complete opinion on him. I will agree that his Damage is low because it's dependent on the RNG, and the rate is fairly low. I think the concept is interesting, and with the Hulk Synergy he could have a slightly larger Damage output, possibly with another Crit Syn. Contemplating the use on the Abilities Trigger Node. I think what you were talking about previously is more apt for him. He's just fun to use because of the carry-over feature, and the shifting Abilities. I get what people are referring to. I'm just not on board with saying any Champ is useless.

    Now this is funny. “I have yet to form a complete opinion on him.” Are you kidding me? So by your own admission, you are ignorant of this champion that you have come on here to post 20 times about in disagreement. Does Kabam give out forum titles based on post count that I don’t know about?

    You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. Never formed an opinion to disagree 20 times. I don't form opinions on Champs prematurely. You'll never see me criticize a Champ that early into their existence. I will comment on the design and take the time to get to know them properly. I also look to information on the Forum, and sometimes have to filter through the responses. A good number of people tend to be blasé about a number of Champs. That's actually the most common initial reaction. I don't judge that quickly.

    yeaph, i see your point, but is not that hard to test him.

    He only have a few options in the kabam design

    1)Sp1/Sp2 unblockable
    2)100% Perfect block
    3)Damage bonus for sp1/sp2 heavy attack
    4)Healing
    5)Indestructible
    6)Fury
    7)Armor Break


    Numbers 1,2,3 fails hard just because the 30% chance to gain the state bonus, i could list more problems about this, but the 30% is enough

    4 - His healing is very poor design, he dosent healing that much, plus you lost 1 reality warp (It feels more like a punishment....)

    5 - Its ok i guess, but it could negate e3 damage...

    6 -Big problem here, the fury does not stack, plus there is a 70% chance, why 70% chance? no one knows and there is no reason for this 70% chance

    7- Same as fury



    so, do you think you really needs months of testing to see this? Is not that hard to test this things, a few fights and you start to see the problem , the 30% chance for his state is a fail in every single mode in this game

    is not that hard dude


    Also forgot that if you run suicides the indestructible sig ability won’t work

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,010 ★★★★★
    Twunt wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Idelest wrote: »
    After taking a few days off I think its time to get back into this post.

    @GroundedWisdom what you are doing is playing the devil's advocate. I do the same thing very often. I even did the same with sentry at the start. I still hold that at sig 200 he won't be the worst champion in the game. I have faith I will find at least some use for him (without suicide masteries).

    But there is a big flaw in saying that not all champs should be OP. Obviously, we know this. Someone has to be the best. It is also a good idea to have more than 1 tier of champion to create diversity, especially in a game based on RNG, it gives people a reason to gamble a bit. The whole game is based on gambling.

    Now why would kabam's goal be to create a gambling system where some of their prizes are completely useless? It makes no sense. The prizes are the champions, each one should be desired or no gambling happens. Some are desired more than others, blade is the grand prize.

    Older champions have not been able to keep up with the state of the game specifically because newer champions and content are creating circumstances that they weren't designed to cope with. However, all new champions (2017) that have come out, literally all of them* have been extremely useful in some scenarios. Not all of them have been OP or in the top tier but all have had a niche.

    *With the exception of carnage. But you can't use carnage as an example! Kabam admitted that carnage was over powered and he was over nerfed to error on the side of caution. So the one exception to the rule has a perfectly reasonable explanation.

    To go on and say that it was kabam's intent to create a champion in the bottom tier with no utility is just incorrect. They mean for people to use all champions. Why would you go to the trouble of designing a champion that you intend to be a flop? Obviously something happened. Either he is not performing like they expected, they nerfed him pre launch, or his stats were released lower than they intended.

    It seems obvious that they overlooked the interaction with suicide masteries. He is the first and only champion in the game to have their own ability's negated by a mastery. All masteries are supposed to ADD something to the champions. Some work better than others with the masteries but Sentry is the only champion that actually loses an ability.

    @Twunt thanks the kind words.

    Completely useless is not a reasonable statement. If he was completely useless, he would inflict no Damage, and just stand there while he was KO'd.

    That's not true. If you want to play that game, then technically speaking if Sentry dealt 0.000001 dps he would still be useless, and thus that statement is factually incorrect. Also, if he dealt zero damage but was permanently invulnerable he'd be an excellent defender.

    Obviously if he was literally the only champion you possessed, you'd be forced to use him. But the question is, would you use him if you had any other alternatives? In almost all non-trivial cases, at the moment I would say no. And any champion that you wouldn't use because you're almost guaranteed to have something better is an essentially useless champion. His most interesting situational ability is for his special attacks to be unblockable. But they will only be unblockable for about 30% of the time per phase, and since you're only in the appropriate phases about 50% of the time that means you're only unblockable for 15% of the time, and on top of that you have to have your power bar synced to the right special attack at the moment the buff randomly appears. You'd be lucky to get unblockable specials 7% of the time.

    The problem with Sentry is that *if* you use him, then sometimes randomly interesting things might happen. But I currently wouldn't use him unless I had to, because those randomly interesting things are insufficient upside relative to practically all other champions.

    I have yet to form a complete opinion on him. I will agree that his Damage is low because it's dependent on the RNG, and the rate is fairly low. I think the concept is interesting, and with the Hulk Synergy he could have a slightly larger Damage output, possibly with another Crit Syn. Contemplating the use on the Abilities Trigger Node. I think what you were talking about previously is more apt for him. He's just fun to use because of the carry-over feature, and the shifting Abilities. I get what people are referring to. I'm just not on board with saying any Champ is useless.

    Now this is funny. “I have yet to form a complete opinion on him.” Are you kidding me? So by your own admission, you are ignorant of this champion that you have come on here to post 20 times about in disagreement. Does Kabam give out forum titles based on post count that I don’t know about?

    You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. Never formed an opinion to disagree 20 times. I don't form opinions on Champs prematurely. You'll never see me criticize a Champ that early into their existence. I will comment on the design and take the time to get to know them properly. I also look to information on the Forum, and sometimes have to filter through the responses. A good number of people tend to be blasé about a number of Champs. That's actually the most common initial reaction. I don't judge that quickly.

    So you’re better than everyone. That’s what I just read. The only person you’re better than here is Sentry. And he is useless.

    I give up. I'm not discussing it with you anymore. You're just twisting everything I say and hunting for an argument. Good luck with that. I did not say I was better than anyone. I said how I operate.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,010 ★★★★★
    Thalion wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Idelest wrote: »
    After taking a few days off I think its time to get back into this post.

    @GroundedWisdom what you are doing is playing the devil's advocate. I do the same thing very often. I even did the same with sentry at the start. I still hold that at sig 200 he won't be the worst champion in the game. I have faith I will find at least some use for him (without suicide masteries).

    But there is a big flaw in saying that not all champs should be OP. Obviously, we know this. Someone has to be the best. It is also a good idea to have more than 1 tier of champion to create diversity, especially in a game based on RNG, it gives people a reason to gamble a bit. The whole game is based on gambling.

    Now why would kabam's goal be to create a gambling system where some of their prizes are completely useless? It makes no sense. The prizes are the champions, each one should be desired or no gambling happens. Some are desired more than others, blade is the grand prize.

    Older champions have not been able to keep up with the state of the game specifically because newer champions and content are creating circumstances that they weren't designed to cope with. However, all new champions (2017) that have come out, literally all of them* have been extremely useful in some scenarios. Not all of them have been OP or in the top tier but all have had a niche.

    *With the exception of carnage. But you can't use carnage as an example! Kabam admitted that carnage was over powered and he was over nerfed to error on the side of caution. So the one exception to the rule has a perfectly reasonable explanation.

    To go on and say that it was kabam's intent to create a champion in the bottom tier with no utility is just incorrect. They mean for people to use all champions. Why would you go to the trouble of designing a champion that you intend to be a flop? Obviously something happened. Either he is not performing like they expected, they nerfed him pre launch, or his stats were released lower than they intended.

    It seems obvious that they overlooked the interaction with suicide masteries. He is the first and only champion in the game to have their own ability's negated by a mastery. All masteries are supposed to ADD something to the champions. Some work better than others with the masteries but Sentry is the only champion that actually loses an ability.

    @Twunt thanks the kind words.

    Completely useless is not a reasonable statement. If he was completely useless, he would inflict no Damage, and just stand there while he was KO'd.

    That's not true. If you want to play that game, then technically speaking if Sentry dealt 0.000001 dps he would still be useless, and thus that statement is factually incorrect. Also, if he dealt zero damage but was permanently invulnerable he'd be an excellent defender.

    Obviously if he was literally the only champion you possessed, you'd be forced to use him. But the question is, would you use him if you had any other alternatives? In almost all non-trivial cases, at the moment I would say no. And any champion that you wouldn't use because you're almost guaranteed to have something better is an essentially useless champion. His most interesting situational ability is for his special attacks to be unblockable. But they will only be unblockable for about 30% of the time per phase, and since you're only in the appropriate phases about 50% of the time that means you're only unblockable for 15% of the time, and on top of that you have to have your power bar synced to the right special attack at the moment the buff randomly appears. You'd be lucky to get unblockable specials 7% of the time.

    The problem with Sentry is that *if* you use him, then sometimes randomly interesting things might happen. But I currently wouldn't use him unless I had to, because those randomly interesting things are insufficient upside relative to practically all other champions.

    I have yet to form a complete opinion on him. I will agree that his Damage is low because it's dependent on the RNG, and the rate is fairly low. I think the concept is interesting, and with the Hulk Synergy he could have a slightly larger Damage output, possibly with another Crit Syn. Contemplating the use on the Abilities Trigger Node. I think what you were talking about previously is more apt for him. He's just fun to use because of the carry-over feature, and the shifting Abilities. I get what people are referring to. I'm just not on board with saying any Champ is useless.

    Now this is funny. “I have yet to form a complete opinion on him.” Are you kidding me? So by your own admission, you are ignorant of this champion that you have come on here to post 20 times about in disagreement. Does Kabam give out forum titles based on post count that I don’t know about?

    You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. Never formed an opinion to disagree 20 times. I don't form opinions on Champs prematurely. You'll never see me criticize a Champ that early into their existence. I will comment on the design and take the time to get to know them properly. I also look to information on the Forum, and sometimes have to filter through the responses. A good number of people tend to be blasé about a number of Champs. That's actually the most common initial reaction. I don't judge that quickly.

    yeaph, i see your point, but is not that hard to test him.

    He only have a few options in the kabam design

    1)Sp1/Sp2 unblockable
    2)100% Perfect block
    3)Damage bonus for sp1/sp2 heavy attack
    4)Healing
    5)Indestructible
    6)Fury
    7)Armor Break


    Numbers 1,2,3 fails hard just because the 30% chance to gain the state bonus, i could list more problems about this, but the 30% is enough

    4 - His healing is very poor design, he dosent healing that much, plus you lost 1 reality warp (It feels more like a punishment....)

    5 - Its ok i guess, but it could negate e3 damage...

    6 -Big problem here, the fury does not stack, plus there is a 70% chance, why 70% chance? no one knows and there is no reason for this 70% chance

    7- Same as fury



    so, do you think you really needs months of testing to see this? Is not that hard to test this things, a few fights and you start to see the problem , the 30% chance for his state is a fail in every single mode in this game

    is not that hard dude

    A few Fights is not enough to test a Champ. Not for me. You can't just run into a Fight or two with WS and make a complete assessment on a Champ in my mind. Especially when we are dealing with an RNG-based Champ. A few Fights is not sufficient enough.
  • IdelestIdelest Posts: 43
    A few Fights is not enough to test a Champ. Not for me. You can't just run into a Fight or two with WS and make a complete assessment on a Champ in my mind. Especially when we are dealing with an RNG-based Champ. A few Fights is not sufficient enough.

    Definitely true, but some of us already have hundreds of fights under our belts with sentry. I have taken him through
    -Arena at ranks 1/25, 2/35, 3/45, and 4/55
    -The entire master mode (every fight) EQ as a 4/55 sig 90
    -AW attack
    -AQ Map 5 on days 1 and 5 to compare the difficulties
    -ROL up to scarlet witch
    -LOL Red Hulk

    and I am TELLING you, there is a mistake. He performs about the same or worse than an average 4* 5/50 champion, a full star less and rank less than him. I've been able to test him in literally every single mode of gameplay multiple times, and I do think that other people in this thread have done the same.

    You don't need to use your own empirical data to come to every conclusion. Plenty of people are pooling their experiences here and coming to a group conclusion. Groups tend to arrive to the correct answer much quicker than individuals, which might explain why you are so far behind. You exclude yourself by defaulting to the counter argument position.

    I am curious as to what sort of evidence would convince you. Im not trying to pick an internet fight, just trying to debate you. What exactly would you have to see in order to convince you that Sentry needs to be edited? I have a feeling that kabam will think along the same terms XD and maybe we can actually get somewhere.
  • ThalionThalion Posts: 65
    Thalion wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Idelest wrote: »
    After taking a few days off I think its time to get back into this post.

    @GroundedWisdom what you are doing is playing the devil's advocate. I do the same thing very often. I even did the same with sentry at the start. I still hold that at sig 200 he won't be the worst champion in the game. I have faith I will find at least some use for him (without suicide masteries).

    But there is a big flaw in saying that not all champs should be OP. Obviously, we know this. Someone has to be the best. It is also a good idea to have more than 1 tier of champion to create diversity, especially in a game based on RNG, it gives people a reason to gamble a bit. The whole game is based on gambling.

    Now why would kabam's goal be to create a gambling system where some of their prizes are completely useless? It makes no sense. The prizes are the champions, each one should be desired or no gambling happens. Some are desired more than others, blade is the grand prize.

    Older champions have not been able to keep up with the state of the game specifically because newer champions and content are creating circumstances that they weren't designed to cope with. However, all new champions (2017) that have come out, literally all of them* have been extremely useful in some scenarios. Not all of them have been OP or in the top tier but all have had a niche.

    *With the exception of carnage. But you can't use carnage as an example! Kabam admitted that carnage was over powered and he was over nerfed to error on the side of caution. So the one exception to the rule has a perfectly reasonable explanation.

    To go on and say that it was kabam's intent to create a champion in the bottom tier with no utility is just incorrect. They mean for people to use all champions. Why would you go to the trouble of designing a champion that you intend to be a flop? Obviously something happened. Either he is not performing like they expected, they nerfed him pre launch, or his stats were released lower than they intended.

    It seems obvious that they overlooked the interaction with suicide masteries. He is the first and only champion in the game to have their own ability's negated by a mastery. All masteries are supposed to ADD something to the champions. Some work better than others with the masteries but Sentry is the only champion that actually loses an ability.

    @Twunt thanks the kind words.

    Completely useless is not a reasonable statement. If he was completely useless, he would inflict no Damage, and just stand there while he was KO'd.

    That's not true. If you want to play that game, then technically speaking if Sentry dealt 0.000001 dps he would still be useless, and thus that statement is factually incorrect. Also, if he dealt zero damage but was permanently invulnerable he'd be an excellent defender.

    Obviously if he was literally the only champion you possessed, you'd be forced to use him. But the question is, would you use him if you had any other alternatives? In almost all non-trivial cases, at the moment I would say no. And any champion that you wouldn't use because you're almost guaranteed to have something better is an essentially useless champion. His most interesting situational ability is for his special attacks to be unblockable. But they will only be unblockable for about 30% of the time per phase, and since you're only in the appropriate phases about 50% of the time that means you're only unblockable for 15% of the time, and on top of that you have to have your power bar synced to the right special attack at the moment the buff randomly appears. You'd be lucky to get unblockable specials 7% of the time.

    The problem with Sentry is that *if* you use him, then sometimes randomly interesting things might happen. But I currently wouldn't use him unless I had to, because those randomly interesting things are insufficient upside relative to practically all other champions.

    I have yet to form a complete opinion on him. I will agree that his Damage is low because it's dependent on the RNG, and the rate is fairly low. I think the concept is interesting, and with the Hulk Synergy he could have a slightly larger Damage output, possibly with another Crit Syn. Contemplating the use on the Abilities Trigger Node. I think what you were talking about previously is more apt for him. He's just fun to use because of the carry-over feature, and the shifting Abilities. I get what people are referring to. I'm just not on board with saying any Champ is useless.

    Now this is funny. “I have yet to form a complete opinion on him.” Are you kidding me? So by your own admission, you are ignorant of this champion that you have come on here to post 20 times about in disagreement. Does Kabam give out forum titles based on post count that I don’t know about?

    You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. Never formed an opinion to disagree 20 times. I don't form opinions on Champs prematurely. You'll never see me criticize a Champ that early into their existence. I will comment on the design and take the time to get to know them properly. I also look to information on the Forum, and sometimes have to filter through the responses. A good number of people tend to be blasé about a number of Champs. That's actually the most common initial reaction. I don't judge that quickly.

    yeaph, i see your point, but is not that hard to test him.

    He only have a few options in the kabam design

    1)Sp1/Sp2 unblockable
    2)100% Perfect block
    3)Damage bonus for sp1/sp2 heavy attack
    4)Healing
    5)Indestructible
    6)Fury
    7)Armor Break


    Numbers 1,2,3 fails hard just because the 30% chance to gain the state bonus, i could list more problems about this, but the 30% is enough

    4 - His healing is very poor design, he dosent healing that much, plus you lost 1 reality warp (It feels more like a punishment....)

    5 - Its ok i guess, but it could negate e3 damage...

    6 -Big problem here, the fury does not stack, plus there is a 70% chance, why 70% chance? no one knows and there is no reason for this 70% chance

    7- Same as fury



    so, do you think you really needs months of testing to see this? Is not that hard to test this things, a few fights and you start to see the problem , the 30% chance for his state is a fail in every single mode in this game

    is not that hard dude

    A few Fights is not enough to test a Champ. Not for me. You can't just run into a Fight or two with WS and make a complete assessment on a Champ in my mind. Especially when we are dealing with an RNG-based Champ. A few Fights is not sufficient enough.

    Sure it is, a few fights dosent mean 2 fights.

    At least 7 fights in ws
    A few lines in master mode/uncollected
    Aq map 5

    Run a few fights using suicides


    After this you start to see the champion is not good, if u keep pushing a few more tests you can easily see he is really bad.

    You dont need a complete scientific case of the champion.... experient players can easly see the problem, what is stunning is how kabam missed

  • ThalionThalion Posts: 65
    Axo4545 wrote: »
    Grounded wisdom are you ignoring me? I asked you a straightforward question twice that was on topic and not rude but still haven't received any answer. Maybe 3rd time is the charm. Question below. Thanks.

    "So I'm not siding with either of you, just asking a straightforward question for GW that I would like a straightforward answer to. You continuously make comments about not all champs are equally strong in all areas of the game. So, can you please give an example of what part of the game sentry is strong in or even useful in for that matter? Not what kabam has put out but something that you have witnessed yourself. Please no talking around the question. Either give areas of the game he is useful(arena doesn't count)or just respond with "I don't know of any". Thanks".

    his account is not an kabam account man, he can ignore you :expressionless:
  • TwuntTwunt Posts: 149
    Twunt wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Idelest wrote: »
    After taking a few days off I think its time to get back into this post.

    @GroundedWisdom what you are doing is playing the devil's advocate. I do the same thing very often. I even did the same with sentry at the start. I still hold that at sig 200 he won't be the worst champion in the game. I have faith I will find at least some use for him (without suicide masteries).

    But there is a big flaw in saying that not all champs should be OP. Obviously, we know this. Someone has to be the best. It is also a good idea to have more than 1 tier of champion to create diversity, especially in a game based on RNG, it gives people a reason to gamble a bit. The whole game is based on gambling.

    Now why would kabam's goal be to create a gambling system where some of their prizes are completely useless? It makes no sense. The prizes are the champions, each one should be desired or no gambling happens. Some are desired more than others, blade is the grand prize.

    Older champions have not been able to keep up with the state of the game specifically because newer champions and content are creating circumstances that they weren't designed to cope with. However, all new champions (2017) that have come out, literally all of them* have been extremely useful in some scenarios. Not all of them have been OP or in the top tier but all have had a niche.

    *With the exception of carnage. But you can't use carnage as an example! Kabam admitted that carnage was over powered and he was over nerfed to error on the side of caution. So the one exception to the rule has a perfectly reasonable explanation.

    To go on and say that it was kabam's intent to create a champion in the bottom tier with no utility is just incorrect. They mean for people to use all champions. Why would you go to the trouble of designing a champion that you intend to be a flop? Obviously something happened. Either he is not performing like they expected, they nerfed him pre launch, or his stats were released lower than they intended.

    It seems obvious that they overlooked the interaction with suicide masteries. He is the first and only champion in the game to have their own ability's negated by a mastery. All masteries are supposed to ADD something to the champions. Some work better than others with the masteries but Sentry is the only champion that actually loses an ability.

    @Twunt thanks the kind words.

    Completely useless is not a reasonable statement. If he was completely useless, he would inflict no Damage, and just stand there while he was KO'd.

    That's not true. If you want to play that game, then technically speaking if Sentry dealt 0.000001 dps he would still be useless, and thus that statement is factually incorrect. Also, if he dealt zero damage but was permanently invulnerable he'd be an excellent defender.

    Obviously if he was literally the only champion you possessed, you'd be forced to use him. But the question is, would you use him if you had any other alternatives? In almost all non-trivial cases, at the moment I would say no. And any champion that you wouldn't use because you're almost guaranteed to have something better is an essentially useless champion. His most interesting situational ability is for his special attacks to be unblockable. But they will only be unblockable for about 30% of the time per phase, and since you're only in the appropriate phases about 50% of the time that means you're only unblockable for 15% of the time, and on top of that you have to have your power bar synced to the right special attack at the moment the buff randomly appears. You'd be lucky to get unblockable specials 7% of the time.

    The problem with Sentry is that *if* you use him, then sometimes randomly interesting things might happen. But I currently wouldn't use him unless I had to, because those randomly interesting things are insufficient upside relative to practically all other champions.

    I have yet to form a complete opinion on him. I will agree that his Damage is low because it's dependent on the RNG, and the rate is fairly low. I think the concept is interesting, and with the Hulk Synergy he could have a slightly larger Damage output, possibly with another Crit Syn. Contemplating the use on the Abilities Trigger Node. I think what you were talking about previously is more apt for him. He's just fun to use because of the carry-over feature, and the shifting Abilities. I get what people are referring to. I'm just not on board with saying any Champ is useless.

    Now this is funny. “I have yet to form a complete opinion on him.” Are you kidding me? So by your own admission, you are ignorant of this champion that you have come on here to post 20 times about in disagreement. Does Kabam give out forum titles based on post count that I don’t know about?

    You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. Never formed an opinion to disagree 20 times. I don't form opinions on Champs prematurely. You'll never see me criticize a Champ that early into their existence. I will comment on the design and take the time to get to know them properly. I also look to information on the Forum, and sometimes have to filter through the responses. A good number of people tend to be blasé about a number of Champs. That's actually the most common initial reaction. I don't judge that quickly.

    So you’re better than everyone. That’s what I just read. The only person you’re better than here is Sentry. And he is useless.

    I give up. I'm not discussing it with you anymore. You're just twisting everything I say and hunting for an argument. Good luck with that. I did not say I was better than anyone. I said how I operate.

    I did not twist your words. I find it highly offensive that you say that. I collected data from a few responses and came to the conclusion that you think you are smarter and wiser than everyone here. I figured a few comments were enough to come to this determination. Then I got to questioning myself. I should review more than a few! So I did. Same conclusion. I guess reviewing just a few comments was enough data. Did I do it the right way?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,010 ★★★★★
    Twunt wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Idelest wrote: »
    After taking a few days off I think its time to get back into this post.

    @GroundedWisdom what you are doing is playing the devil's advocate. I do the same thing very often. I even did the same with sentry at the start. I still hold that at sig 200 he won't be the worst champion in the game. I have faith I will find at least some use for him (without suicide masteries).

    But there is a big flaw in saying that not all champs should be OP. Obviously, we know this. Someone has to be the best. It is also a good idea to have more than 1 tier of champion to create diversity, especially in a game based on RNG, it gives people a reason to gamble a bit. The whole game is based on gambling.

    Now why would kabam's goal be to create a gambling system where some of their prizes are completely useless? It makes no sense. The prizes are the champions, each one should be desired or no gambling happens. Some are desired more than others, blade is the grand prize.

    Older champions have not been able to keep up with the state of the game specifically because newer champions and content are creating circumstances that they weren't designed to cope with. However, all new champions (2017) that have come out, literally all of them* have been extremely useful in some scenarios. Not all of them have been OP or in the top tier but all have had a niche.

    *With the exception of carnage. But you can't use carnage as an example! Kabam admitted that carnage was over powered and he was over nerfed to error on the side of caution. So the one exception to the rule has a perfectly reasonable explanation.

    To go on and say that it was kabam's intent to create a champion in the bottom tier with no utility is just incorrect. They mean for people to use all champions. Why would you go to the trouble of designing a champion that you intend to be a flop? Obviously something happened. Either he is not performing like they expected, they nerfed him pre launch, or his stats were released lower than they intended.

    It seems obvious that they overlooked the interaction with suicide masteries. He is the first and only champion in the game to have their own ability's negated by a mastery. All masteries are supposed to ADD something to the champions. Some work better than others with the masteries but Sentry is the only champion that actually loses an ability.

    @Twunt thanks the kind words.

    Completely useless is not a reasonable statement. If he was completely useless, he would inflict no Damage, and just stand there while he was KO'd.

    That's not true. If you want to play that game, then technically speaking if Sentry dealt 0.000001 dps he would still be useless, and thus that statement is factually incorrect. Also, if he dealt zero damage but was permanently invulnerable he'd be an excellent defender.

    Obviously if he was literally the only champion you possessed, you'd be forced to use him. But the question is, would you use him if you had any other alternatives? In almost all non-trivial cases, at the moment I would say no. And any champion that you wouldn't use because you're almost guaranteed to have something better is an essentially useless champion. His most interesting situational ability is for his special attacks to be unblockable. But they will only be unblockable for about 30% of the time per phase, and since you're only in the appropriate phases about 50% of the time that means you're only unblockable for 15% of the time, and on top of that you have to have your power bar synced to the right special attack at the moment the buff randomly appears. You'd be lucky to get unblockable specials 7% of the time.

    The problem with Sentry is that *if* you use him, then sometimes randomly interesting things might happen. But I currently wouldn't use him unless I had to, because those randomly interesting things are insufficient upside relative to practically all other champions.

    I have yet to form a complete opinion on him. I will agree that his Damage is low because it's dependent on the RNG, and the rate is fairly low. I think the concept is interesting, and with the Hulk Synergy he could have a slightly larger Damage output, possibly with another Crit Syn. Contemplating the use on the Abilities Trigger Node. I think what you were talking about previously is more apt for him. He's just fun to use because of the carry-over feature, and the shifting Abilities. I get what people are referring to. I'm just not on board with saying any Champ is useless.

    Now this is funny. “I have yet to form a complete opinion on him.” Are you kidding me? So by your own admission, you are ignorant of this champion that you have come on here to post 20 times about in disagreement. Does Kabam give out forum titles based on post count that I don’t know about?

    You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. Never formed an opinion to disagree 20 times. I don't form opinions on Champs prematurely. You'll never see me criticize a Champ that early into their existence. I will comment on the design and take the time to get to know them properly. I also look to information on the Forum, and sometimes have to filter through the responses. A good number of people tend to be blasé about a number of Champs. That's actually the most common initial reaction. I don't judge that quickly.

    So you’re better than everyone. That’s what I just read. The only person you’re better than here is Sentry. And he is useless.

    I give up. I'm not talking t
    Axo4545 wrote: »
    Grounded wisdom are you ignoring me? I asked you a straightforward question twice that was on topic and not rude but still haven't received any answer. Maybe 3rd time is the charm. Question below. Thanks.

    "So I'm not siding with either of you, just asking a straightforward question for GW that I would like a straightforward answer to. You continuously make comments about not all champs are equally strong in all areas of the game. So, can you please give an example of what part of the game sentry is strong in or even useful in for that matter? Not what kabam has put out but something that you have witnessed yourself. Please no talking around the question. Either give areas of the game he is useful(arena doesn't count)or just respond with "I don't know of any". Thanks".

    I saw your question. I've already said I haven't formed a complete opinion on him yet. I see more use in Questing and I'm curious about the Abilities Trigger More Often Node. That's where I'm at in my assessment so far.
  • ThalionThalion Posts: 65
    Twunt wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Idelest wrote: »
    After taking a few days off I think its time to get back into this post.

    @GroundedWisdom what you are doing is playing the devil's advocate. I do the same thing very often. I even did the same with sentry at the start. I still hold that at sig 200 he won't be the worst champion in the game. I have faith I will find at least some use for him (without suicide masteries).

    But there is a big flaw in saying that not all champs should be OP. Obviously, we know this. Someone has to be the best. It is also a good idea to have more than 1 tier of champion to create diversity, especially in a game based on RNG, it gives people a reason to gamble a bit. The whole game is based on gambling.

    Now why would kabam's goal be to create a gambling system where some of their prizes are completely useless? It makes no sense. The prizes are the champions, each one should be desired or no gambling happens. Some are desired more than others, blade is the grand prize.

    Older champions have not been able to keep up with the state of the game specifically because newer champions and content are creating circumstances that they weren't designed to cope with. However, all new champions (2017) that have come out, literally all of them* have been extremely useful in some scenarios. Not all of them have been OP or in the top tier but all have had a niche.

    *With the exception of carnage. But you can't use carnage as an example! Kabam admitted that carnage was over powered and he was over nerfed to error on the side of caution. So the one exception to the rule has a perfectly reasonable explanation.

    To go on and say that it was kabam's intent to create a champion in the bottom tier with no utility is just incorrect. They mean for people to use all champions. Why would you go to the trouble of designing a champion that you intend to be a flop? Obviously something happened. Either he is not performing like they expected, they nerfed him pre launch, or his stats were released lower than they intended.

    It seems obvious that they overlooked the interaction with suicide masteries. He is the first and only champion in the game to have their own ability's negated by a mastery. All masteries are supposed to ADD something to the champions. Some work better than others with the masteries but Sentry is the only champion that actually loses an ability.

    @Twunt thanks the kind words.

    Completely useless is not a reasonable statement. If he was completely useless, he would inflict no Damage, and just stand there while he was KO'd.

    That's not true. If you want to play that game, then technically speaking if Sentry dealt 0.000001 dps he would still be useless, and thus that statement is factually incorrect. Also, if he dealt zero damage but was permanently invulnerable he'd be an excellent defender.

    Obviously if he was literally the only champion you possessed, you'd be forced to use him. But the question is, would you use him if you had any other alternatives? In almost all non-trivial cases, at the moment I would say no. And any champion that you wouldn't use because you're almost guaranteed to have something better is an essentially useless champion. His most interesting situational ability is for his special attacks to be unblockable. But they will only be unblockable for about 30% of the time per phase, and since you're only in the appropriate phases about 50% of the time that means you're only unblockable for 15% of the time, and on top of that you have to have your power bar synced to the right special attack at the moment the buff randomly appears. You'd be lucky to get unblockable specials 7% of the time.

    The problem with Sentry is that *if* you use him, then sometimes randomly interesting things might happen. But I currently wouldn't use him unless I had to, because those randomly interesting things are insufficient upside relative to practically all other champions.

    I have yet to form a complete opinion on him. I will agree that his Damage is low because it's dependent on the RNG, and the rate is fairly low. I think the concept is interesting, and with the Hulk Synergy he could have a slightly larger Damage output, possibly with another Crit Syn. Contemplating the use on the Abilities Trigger Node. I think what you were talking about previously is more apt for him. He's just fun to use because of the carry-over feature, and the shifting Abilities. I get what people are referring to. I'm just not on board with saying any Champ is useless.

    Now this is funny. “I have yet to form a complete opinion on him.” Are you kidding me? So by your own admission, you are ignorant of this champion that you have come on here to post 20 times about in disagreement. Does Kabam give out forum titles based on post count that I don’t know about?

    You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. Never formed an opinion to disagree 20 times. I don't form opinions on Champs prematurely. You'll never see me criticize a Champ that early into their existence. I will comment on the design and take the time to get to know them properly. I also look to information on the Forum, and sometimes have to filter through the responses. A good number of people tend to be blasé about a number of Champs. That's actually the most common initial reaction. I don't judge that quickly.

    So you’re better than everyone. That’s what I just read. The only person you’re better than here is Sentry. And he is useless.

    I give up. I'm not talking t
    Axo4545 wrote: »
    Grounded wisdom are you ignoring me? I asked you a straightforward question twice that was on topic and not rude but still haven't received any answer. Maybe 3rd time is the charm. Question below. Thanks.

    "So I'm not siding with either of you, just asking a straightforward question for GW that I would like a straightforward answer to. You continuously make comments about not all champs are equally strong in all areas of the game. So, can you please give an example of what part of the game sentry is strong in or even useful in for that matter? Not what kabam has put out but something that you have witnessed yourself. Please no talking around the question. Either give areas of the game he is useful(arena doesn't count)or just respond with "I don't know of any". Thanks".

    I saw your question. I've already said I haven't formed a complete opinion on him yet. I see more use in Questing and I'm curious about the Abilities Trigger More Often Node. That's where I'm at in my assessment so far.


    This is a valid argument, but, i can't see how he will be good in this node, he can't really keep his combo up, and even if he got his SP1/SP2 unblockable his animation is very easy to dodge, so.....

  • DrOctavius2_2DrOctavius2_2 Posts: 428 ★★
    edited January 2018
    Think Kabam ignoring this thread at this point
  • IdelestIdelest Posts: 43
    Think Kabam ignoring this thread at this point

    I don't think so. I think they are talking about how to fix Sentry :)
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,010 ★★★★★
    Thalion wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Idelest wrote: »
    After taking a few days off I think its time to get back into this post.

    @GroundedWisdom what you are doing is playing the devil's advocate. I do the same thing very often. I even did the same with sentry at the start. I still hold that at sig 200 he won't be the worst champion in the game. I have faith I will find at least some use for him (without suicide masteries).

    But there is a big flaw in saying that not all champs should be OP. Obviously, we know this. Someone has to be the best. It is also a good idea to have more than 1 tier of champion to create diversity, especially in a game based on RNG, it gives people a reason to gamble a bit. The whole game is based on gambling.

    Now why would kabam's goal be to create a gambling system where some of their prizes are completely useless? It makes no sense. The prizes are the champions, each one should be desired or no gambling happens. Some are desired more than others, blade is the grand prize.

    Older champions have not been able to keep up with the state of the game specifically because newer champions and content are creating circumstances that they weren't designed to cope with. However, all new champions (2017) that have come out, literally all of them* have been extremely useful in some scenarios. Not all of them have been OP or in the top tier but all have had a niche.

    *With the exception of carnage. But you can't use carnage as an example! Kabam admitted that carnage was over powered and he was over nerfed to error on the side of caution. So the one exception to the rule has a perfectly reasonable explanation.

    To go on and say that it was kabam's intent to create a champion in the bottom tier with no utility is just incorrect. They mean for people to use all champions. Why would you go to the trouble of designing a champion that you intend to be a flop? Obviously something happened. Either he is not performing like they expected, they nerfed him pre launch, or his stats were released lower than they intended.

    It seems obvious that they overlooked the interaction with suicide masteries. He is the first and only champion in the game to have their own ability's negated by a mastery. All masteries are supposed to ADD something to the champions. Some work better than others with the masteries but Sentry is the only champion that actually loses an ability.

    @Twunt thanks the kind words.

    Completely useless is not a reasonable statement. If he was completely useless, he would inflict no Damage, and just stand there while he was KO'd.

    That's not true. If you want to play that game, then technically speaking if Sentry dealt 0.000001 dps he would still be useless, and thus that statement is factually incorrect. Also, if he dealt zero damage but was permanently invulnerable he'd be an excellent defender.

    Obviously if he was literally the only champion you possessed, you'd be forced to use him. But the question is, would you use him if you had any other alternatives? In almost all non-trivial cases, at the moment I would say no. And any champion that you wouldn't use because you're almost guaranteed to have something better is an essentially useless champion. His most interesting situational ability is for his special attacks to be unblockable. But they will only be unblockable for about 30% of the time per phase, and since you're only in the appropriate phases about 50% of the time that means you're only unblockable for 15% of the time, and on top of that you have to have your power bar synced to the right special attack at the moment the buff randomly appears. You'd be lucky to get unblockable specials 7% of the time.

    The problem with Sentry is that *if* you use him, then sometimes randomly interesting things might happen. But I currently wouldn't use him unless I had to, because those randomly interesting things are insufficient upside relative to practically all other champions.

    I have yet to form a complete opinion on him. I will agree that his Damage is low because it's dependent on the RNG, and the rate is fairly low. I think the concept is interesting, and with the Hulk Synergy he could have a slightly larger Damage output, possibly with another Crit Syn. Contemplating the use on the Abilities Trigger Node. I think what you were talking about previously is more apt for him. He's just fun to use because of the carry-over feature, and the shifting Abilities. I get what people are referring to. I'm just not on board with saying any Champ is useless.

    Now this is funny. “I have yet to form a complete opinion on him.” Are you kidding me? So by your own admission, you are ignorant of this champion that you have come on here to post 20 times about in disagreement. Does Kabam give out forum titles based on post count that I don’t know about?

    You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. Never formed an opinion to disagree 20 times. I don't form opinions on Champs prematurely. You'll never see me criticize a Champ that early into their existence. I will comment on the design and take the time to get to know them properly. I also look to information on the Forum, and sometimes have to filter through the responses. A good number of people tend to be blasé about a number of Champs. That's actually the most common initial reaction. I don't judge that quickly.

    So you’re better than everyone. That’s what I just read. The only person you’re better than here is Sentry. And he is useless.

    I give up. I'm not talking t
    Axo4545 wrote: »
    Grounded wisdom are you ignoring me? I asked you a straightforward question twice that was on topic and not rude but still haven't received any answer. Maybe 3rd time is the charm. Question below. Thanks.

    "So I'm not siding with either of you, just asking a straightforward question for GW that I would like a straightforward answer to. You continuously make comments about not all champs are equally strong in all areas of the game. So, can you please give an example of what part of the game sentry is strong in or even useful in for that matter? Not what kabam has put out but something that you have witnessed yourself. Please no talking around the question. Either give areas of the game he is useful(arena doesn't count)or just respond with "I don't know of any". Thanks".

    I saw your question. I've already said I haven't formed a complete opinion on him yet. I see more use in Questing and I'm curious about the Abilities Trigger More Often Node. That's where I'm at in my assessment so far.


    This is a valid argument, but, i can't see how he will be good in this node, he can't really keep his combo up, and even if he got his SP1/SP2 unblockable his animation is very easy to dodge, so.....

    I'm not really arguing for or against anything. Just explaining where I'm at in my thought process right now. To be honest, I can see reasoning behind releasing him on the light side because he could potentially be a juggernaut of sorts if too strong. I'm not disputing anyone's opinion. I'm saying I don't believe that any Champ is absolutely useless, and I don't mind being open to experimenting uses. When I say not all Champs are OP, I'm just stating the fact that some Champs are not always useful at certain points in the game.
  • ThalionThalion Posts: 65
    Thalion wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Idelest wrote: »
    After taking a few days off I think its time to get back into this post.

    @GroundedWisdom what you are doing is playing the devil's advocate. I do the same thing very often. I even did the same with sentry at the start. I still hold that at sig 200 he won't be the worst champion in the game. I have faith I will find at least some use for him (without suicide masteries).

    But there is a big flaw in saying that not all champs should be OP. Obviously, we know this. Someone has to be the best. It is also a good idea to have more than 1 tier of champion to create diversity, especially in a game based on RNG, it gives people a reason to gamble a bit. The whole game is based on gambling.

    Now why would kabam's goal be to create a gambling system where some of their prizes are completely useless? It makes no sense. The prizes are the champions, each one should be desired or no gambling happens. Some are desired more than others, blade is the grand prize.

    Older champions have not been able to keep up with the state of the game specifically because newer champions and content are creating circumstances that they weren't designed to cope with. However, all new champions (2017) that have come out, literally all of them* have been extremely useful in some scenarios. Not all of them have been OP or in the top tier but all have had a niche.

    *With the exception of carnage. But you can't use carnage as an example! Kabam admitted that carnage was over powered and he was over nerfed to error on the side of caution. So the one exception to the rule has a perfectly reasonable explanation.

    To go on and say that it was kabam's intent to create a champion in the bottom tier with no utility is just incorrect. They mean for people to use all champions. Why would you go to the trouble of designing a champion that you intend to be a flop? Obviously something happened. Either he is not performing like they expected, they nerfed him pre launch, or his stats were released lower than they intended.

    It seems obvious that they overlooked the interaction with suicide masteries. He is the first and only champion in the game to have their own ability's negated by a mastery. All masteries are supposed to ADD something to the champions. Some work better than others with the masteries but Sentry is the only champion that actually loses an ability.

    @Twunt thanks the kind words.

    Completely useless is not a reasonable statement. If he was completely useless, he would inflict no Damage, and just stand there while he was KO'd.

    That's not true. If you want to play that game, then technically speaking if Sentry dealt 0.000001 dps he would still be useless, and thus that statement is factually incorrect. Also, if he dealt zero damage but was permanently invulnerable he'd be an excellent defender.

    Obviously if he was literally the only champion you possessed, you'd be forced to use him. But the question is, would you use him if you had any other alternatives? In almost all non-trivial cases, at the moment I would say no. And any champion that you wouldn't use because you're almost guaranteed to have something better is an essentially useless champion. His most interesting situational ability is for his special attacks to be unblockable. But they will only be unblockable for about 30% of the time per phase, and since you're only in the appropriate phases about 50% of the time that means you're only unblockable for 15% of the time, and on top of that you have to have your power bar synced to the right special attack at the moment the buff randomly appears. You'd be lucky to get unblockable specials 7% of the time.

    The problem with Sentry is that *if* you use him, then sometimes randomly interesting things might happen. But I currently wouldn't use him unless I had to, because those randomly interesting things are insufficient upside relative to practically all other champions.

    I have yet to form a complete opinion on him. I will agree that his Damage is low because it's dependent on the RNG, and the rate is fairly low. I think the concept is interesting, and with the Hulk Synergy he could have a slightly larger Damage output, possibly with another Crit Syn. Contemplating the use on the Abilities Trigger Node. I think what you were talking about previously is more apt for him. He's just fun to use because of the carry-over feature, and the shifting Abilities. I get what people are referring to. I'm just not on board with saying any Champ is useless.

    Now this is funny. “I have yet to form a complete opinion on him.” Are you kidding me? So by your own admission, you are ignorant of this champion that you have come on here to post 20 times about in disagreement. Does Kabam give out forum titles based on post count that I don’t know about?

    You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. Never formed an opinion to disagree 20 times. I don't form opinions on Champs prematurely. You'll never see me criticize a Champ that early into their existence. I will comment on the design and take the time to get to know them properly. I also look to information on the Forum, and sometimes have to filter through the responses. A good number of people tend to be blasé about a number of Champs. That's actually the most common initial reaction. I don't judge that quickly.

    So you’re better than everyone. That’s what I just read. The only person you’re better than here is Sentry. And he is useless.

    I give up. I'm not talking t
    Axo4545 wrote: »
    Grounded wisdom are you ignoring me? I asked you a straightforward question twice that was on topic and not rude but still haven't received any answer. Maybe 3rd time is the charm. Question below. Thanks.

    "So I'm not siding with either of you, just asking a straightforward question for GW that I would like a straightforward answer to. You continuously make comments about not all champs are equally strong in all areas of the game. So, can you please give an example of what part of the game sentry is strong in or even useful in for that matter? Not what kabam has put out but something that you have witnessed yourself. Please no talking around the question. Either give areas of the game he is useful(arena doesn't count)or just respond with "I don't know of any". Thanks".

    I saw your question. I've already said I haven't formed a complete opinion on him yet. I see more use in Questing and I'm curious about the Abilities Trigger More Often Node. That's where I'm at in my assessment so far.


    This is a valid argument, but, i can't see how he will be good in this node, he can't really keep his combo up, and even if he got his SP1/SP2 unblockable his animation is very easy to dodge, so.....

    I'm not really arguing for or against anything. Just explaining where I'm at in my thought process right now. To be honest, I can see reasoning behind releasing him on the light side because he could potentially be a juggernaut of sorts if too strong. I'm not disputing anyone's opinion. I'm saying I don't believe that any Champ is absolutely useless, and I don't mind being open to experimenting uses. When I say not all Champs are OP, I'm just stating the fact that some Champs are not always useful at certain points in the game.

    Great, if you find any use for him, pm me.

    The only place i can see any use is in 5.4 vs modok, because of modok node (but even there, will not be a great match)
  • TwuntTwunt Posts: 149
    Thalion wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Idelest wrote: »
    After taking a few days off I think its time to get back into this post.

    @GroundedWisdom what you are doing is playing the devil's advocate. I do the same thing very often. I even did the same with sentry at the start. I still hold that at sig 200 he won't be the worst champion in the game. I have faith I will find at least some use for him (without suicide masteries).

    But there is a big flaw in saying that not all champs should be OP. Obviously, we know this. Someone has to be the best. It is also a good idea to have more than 1 tier of champion to create diversity, especially in a game based on RNG, it gives people a reason to gamble a bit. The whole game is based on gambling.

    Now why would kabam's goal be to create a gambling system where some of their prizes are completely useless? It makes no sense. The prizes are the champions, each one should be desired or no gambling happens. Some are desired more than others, blade is the grand prize.

    Older champions have not been able to keep up with the state of the game specifically because newer champions and content are creating circumstances that they weren't designed to cope with. However, all new champions (2017) that have come out, literally all of them* have been extremely useful in some scenarios. Not all of them have been OP or in the top tier but all have had a niche.

    *With the exception of carnage. But you can't use carnage as an example! Kabam admitted that carnage was over powered and he was over nerfed to error on the side of caution. So the one exception to the rule has a perfectly reasonable explanation.

    To go on and say that it was kabam's intent to create a champion in the bottom tier with no utility is just incorrect. They mean for people to use all champions. Why would you go to the trouble of designing a champion that you intend to be a flop? Obviously something happened. Either he is not performing like they expected, they nerfed him pre launch, or his stats were released lower than they intended.

    It seems obvious that they overlooked the interaction with suicide masteries. He is the first and only champion in the game to have their own ability's negated by a mastery. All masteries are supposed to ADD something to the champions. Some work better than others with the masteries but Sentry is the only champion that actually loses an ability.

    @Twunt thanks the kind words.

    Completely useless is not a reasonable statement. If he was completely useless, he would inflict no Damage, and just stand there while he was KO'd.

    That's not true. If you want to play that game, then technically speaking if Sentry dealt 0.000001 dps he would still be useless, and thus that statement is factually incorrect. Also, if he dealt zero damage but was permanently invulnerable he'd be an excellent defender.

    Obviously if he was literally the only champion you possessed, you'd be forced to use him. But the question is, would you use him if you had any other alternatives? In almost all non-trivial cases, at the moment I would say no. And any champion that you wouldn't use because you're almost guaranteed to have something better is an essentially useless champion. His most interesting situational ability is for his special attacks to be unblockable. But they will only be unblockable for about 30% of the time per phase, and since you're only in the appropriate phases about 50% of the time that means you're only unblockable for 15% of the time, and on top of that you have to have your power bar synced to the right special attack at the moment the buff randomly appears. You'd be lucky to get unblockable specials 7% of the time.

    The problem with Sentry is that *if* you use him, then sometimes randomly interesting things might happen. But I currently wouldn't use him unless I had to, because those randomly interesting things are insufficient upside relative to practically all other champions.

    I have yet to form a complete opinion on him. I will agree that his Damage is low because it's dependent on the RNG, and the rate is fairly low. I think the concept is interesting, and with the Hulk Synergy he could have a slightly larger Damage output, possibly with another Crit Syn. Contemplating the use on the Abilities Trigger Node. I think what you were talking about previously is more apt for him. He's just fun to use because of the carry-over feature, and the shifting Abilities. I get what people are referring to. I'm just not on board with saying any Champ is useless.

    Now this is funny. “I have yet to form a complete opinion on him.” Are you kidding me? So by your own admission, you are ignorant of this champion that you have come on here to post 20 times about in disagreement. Does Kabam give out forum titles based on post count that I don’t know about?

    You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. Never formed an opinion to disagree 20 times. I don't form opinions on Champs prematurely. You'll never see me criticize a Champ that early into their existence. I will comment on the design and take the time to get to know them properly. I also look to information on the Forum, and sometimes have to filter through the responses. A good number of people tend to be blasé about a number of Champs. That's actually the most common initial reaction. I don't judge that quickly.

    So you’re better than everyone. That’s what I just read. The only person you’re better than here is Sentry. And he is useless.

    I give up. I'm not talking t
    Axo4545 wrote: »
    Grounded wisdom are you ignoring me? I asked you a straightforward question twice that was on topic and not rude but still haven't received any answer. Maybe 3rd time is the charm. Question below. Thanks.

    "So I'm not siding with either of you, just asking a straightforward question for GW that I would like a straightforward answer to. You continuously make comments about not all champs are equally strong in all areas of the game. So, can you please give an example of what part of the game sentry is strong in or even useful in for that matter? Not what kabam has put out but something that you have witnessed yourself. Please no talking around the question. Either give areas of the game he is useful(arena doesn't count)or just respond with "I don't know of any". Thanks".

    I saw your question. I've already said I haven't formed a complete opinion on him yet. I see more use in Questing and I'm curious about the Abilities Trigger More Often Node. That's where I'm at in my assessment so far.


    This is a valid argument, but, i can't see how he will be good in this node, he can't really keep his combo up, and even if he got his SP1/SP2 unblockable his animation is very easy to dodge, so.....

    I'm not really arguing for or against anything. Just explaining where I'm at in my thought process right now. To be honest, I can see reasoning behind releasing him on the light side because he could potentially be a juggernaut of sorts if too strong. I'm not disputing anyone's opinion. I'm saying I don't believe that any Champ is absolutely useless, and I don't mind being open to experimenting uses. When I say not all Champs are OP, I'm just stating the fact that some Champs are not always useful at certain points in the game.


    Thank you for stating the obvious! What’s your take on Sentry after your extensive review of his abilities, people’s comments, and video footage? Do you have experience using him? Please provide your concrete feedback!
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,010 ★★★★★
    Axo4545 wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    Twunt wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Idelest wrote: »
    After taking a few days off I think its time to get back into this post.

    @GroundedWisdom what you are doing is playing the devil's advocate. I do the same thing very often. I even did the same with sentry at the start. I still hold that at sig 200 he won't be the worst champion in the game. I have faith I will find at least some use for him (without suicide masteries).

    But there is a big flaw in saying that not all champs should be OP. Obviously, we know this. Someone has to be the best. It is also a good idea to have more than 1 tier of champion to create diversity, especially in a game based on RNG, it gives people a reason to gamble a bit. The whole game is based on gambling.

    Now why would kabam's goal be to create a gambling system where some of their prizes are completely useless? It makes no sense. The prizes are the champions, each one should be desired or no gambling happens. Some are desired more than others, blade is the grand prize.

    Older champions have not been able to keep up with the state of the game specifically because newer champions and content are creating circumstances that they weren't designed to cope with. However, all new champions (2017) that have come out, literally all of them* have been extremely useful in some scenarios. Not all of them have been OP or in the top tier but all have had a niche.

    *With the exception of carnage. But you can't use carnage as an example! Kabam admitted that carnage was over powered and he was over nerfed to error on the side of caution. So the one exception to the rule has a perfectly reasonable explanation.

    To go on and say that it was kabam's intent to create a champion in the bottom tier with no utility is just incorrect. They mean for people to use all champions. Why would you go to the trouble of designing a champion that you intend to be a flop? Obviously something happened. Either he is not performing like they expected, they nerfed him pre launch, or his stats were released lower than they intended.

    It seems obvious that they overlooked the interaction with suicide masteries. He is the first and only champion in the game to have their own ability's negated by a mastery. All masteries are supposed to ADD something to the champions. Some work better than others with the masteries but Sentry is the only champion that actually loses an ability.

    @Twunt thanks the kind words.

    Completely useless is not a reasonable statement. If he was completely useless, he would inflict no Damage, and just stand there while he was KO'd.

    That's not true. If you want to play that game, then technically speaking if Sentry dealt 0.000001 dps he would still be useless, and thus that statement is factually incorrect. Also, if he dealt zero damage but was permanently invulnerable he'd be an excellent defender.

    Obviously if he was literally the only champion you possessed, you'd be forced to use him. But the question is, would you use him if you had any other alternatives? In almost all non-trivial cases, at the moment I would say no. And any champion that you wouldn't use because you're almost guaranteed to have something better is an essentially useless champion. His most interesting situational ability is for his special attacks to be unblockable. But they will only be unblockable for about 30% of the time per phase, and since you're only in the appropriate phases about 50% of the time that means you're only unblockable for 15% of the time, and on top of that you have to have your power bar synced to the right special attack at the moment the buff randomly appears. You'd be lucky to get unblockable specials 7% of the time.

    The problem with Sentry is that *if* you use him, then sometimes randomly interesting things might happen. But I currently wouldn't use him unless I had to, because those randomly interesting things are insufficient upside relative to practically all other champions.

    I have yet to form a complete opinion on him. I will agree that his Damage is low because it's dependent on the RNG, and the rate is fairly low. I think the concept is interesting, and with the Hulk Synergy he could have a slightly larger Damage output, possibly with another Crit Syn. Contemplating the use on the Abilities Trigger Node. I think what you were talking about previously is more apt for him. He's just fun to use because of the carry-over feature, and the shifting Abilities. I get what people are referring to. I'm just not on board with saying any Champ is useless.

    Now this is funny. “I have yet to form a complete opinion on him.” Are you kidding me? So by your own admission, you are ignorant of this champion that you have come on here to post 20 times about in disagreement. Does Kabam give out forum titles based on post count that I don’t know about?

    You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. Never formed an opinion to disagree 20 times. I don't form opinions on Champs prematurely. You'll never see me criticize a Champ that early into their existence. I will comment on the design and take the time to get to know them properly. I also look to information on the Forum, and sometimes have to filter through the responses. A good number of people tend to be blasé about a number of Champs. That's actually the most common initial reaction. I don't judge that quickly.

    So you’re better than everyone. That’s what I just read. The only person you’re better than here is Sentry. And he is useless.

    I give up. I'm not talking t
    Axo4545 wrote: »
    Grounded wisdom are you ignoring me? I asked you a straightforward question twice that was on topic and not rude but still haven't received any answer. Maybe 3rd time is the charm. Question below. Thanks.

    "So I'm not siding with either of you, just asking a straightforward question for GW that I would like a straightforward answer to. You continuously make comments about not all champs are equally strong in all areas of the game. So, can you please give an example of what part of the game sentry is strong in or even useful in for that matter? Not what kabam has put out but something that you have witnessed yourself. Please no talking around the question. Either give areas of the game he is useful(arena doesn't count)or just respond with "I don't know of any". Thanks".

    I saw your question. I've already said I haven't formed a complete opinion on him yet. I see more use in Questing and I'm curious about the Abilities Trigger More Often Node. That's where I'm at in my assessment so far.

    So you can't give a straightforward answer like I requested. It's not hard. Either give an area of the game where he is useful or just state that you don't know of any area that he is useful. No, I see more, or I feel, or anything like that. As I said a straightforward answer for a straightforward question. If you have seen an area where he is useful please by all means tell us where it is. Thanks.

    I responded to your question. The tone is not something I want to engage in.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,010 ★★★★★
    I answered the question. I said I see more use in Questing. The tone I'm talking about is badgering me to give the response YOU see as sufficient. Your purpose in asking is to imply that I can't answer it directly and there is no answer. You refusing to accept my answer will not change it. I gave the answer I had and I'm not engaging with that thought process. It's not polite at all. It's a trap question. I respond the way I choose and I'm not taking part in cross-examination.
  • ApacheApache Posts: 557 ★★
    I answered the question. I said I see more use in Questing. The tone I'm talking about is badgering me to give the response YOU see as sufficient. Your purpose in asking is to imply that I can't answer it directly and there is no answer. You refusing to accept my answer will not change it. I gave the answer I had and I'm not engaging with that thought process. It's not polite at all. It's a trap question. I respond the way I choose and I'm not taking part in cross-examination.

    weird i cant flag your post as spam. interesting
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,010 ★★★★★
    edited January 2018
    Axo4545 wrote: »
    I answered the question. I said I see more use in Questing. The tone I'm talking about is badgering me to give the response YOU see as sufficient. Your purpose in asking is to imply that I can't answer it directly and there is no answer. You refusing to accept my answer will not change it. I gave the answer I had and I'm not engaging with that thought process. It's not polite at all. It's a trap question. I respond the way I choose and I'm not taking part in cross-examination.

    It is not a trap question. I asked if you knew of a area where he was useful. Your reply was that you see more potential in quest but didn't explain why. I'm not asking for you to change your answer just to explain it. The only one that seems to be getting upset in this conversation is you. I haven't done anything but ask questions. My first statement was that I was not taking either side. How is that trying to trap you? If you can't answer the question do not take it out on me for asking. Thanks.

    You asked. I gave an answer. I said I haven't formed a complete opinion on him yet. That's where I'm at in my assessment. The trap by saying I can't even give a complete answer. That's the answer I have right now and if it's not enough, there's nothing I can say outside of that. I've given my response. You can either accept it or not. It's a trap if you reject my response and scrutinize it, saying I can't answer a direct question. That's not a question at all. It's an assumption that you already made before you asked.
  • GrubGrub Posts: 132
    edited January 2018
    Basically he does not have an answer he was being contrary to popular opinion because he enjoys being a troll. He can’t come out and admit Sentry sucks even though he wants to because that would just prove the above statement. If the lack of an answer does nothing more than make him runaway to a different thread to hide it should be considered a victory and just move on.
  • TwuntTwunt Posts: 149
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,637 Guardian
    Apache wrote: »
    I answered the question. I said I see more use in Questing. The tone I'm talking about is badgering me to give the response YOU see as sufficient. Your purpose in asking is to imply that I can't answer it directly and there is no answer. You refusing to accept my answer will not change it. I gave the answer I had and I'm not engaging with that thought process. It's not polite at all. It's a trap question. I respond the way I choose and I'm not taking part in cross-examination.

    weird i cant flag your post as spam. interesting

    I don't think that post is spam by the forums' definition of spam. However, very recently I've noticed Kabam has made some changes to the forums related to flagging posts. For one, you can't see the flag count in profiles, not even your own. And second, flagging a post doesn't seem to display the flagging count in the actual post except to the original poster. If you flag a post as spam or abuse, I believe the poster can see that flag on the post, but no one else can.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 24,010 ★★★★★
    Grub wrote: »
    Basically he does not have an answer he was being contrary to popular opinion because he enjoys being a troll. He can’t come out and admit Sentry sucks even though he wants to because that would just prove the above statement. If the lack of an answer does nothing more than make him runaway to a different thread to hide it should be considered a victory and just move on.

    I gave an answer. I did not say he sucks, nor did I say he's great. I said I haven't formed a definite opinion yet and I find he's more useful for Questing. Which means I'm still exploring him. That does not make me a troll, or a contrarian. That means exactly what I said.
This discussion has been closed.