Interesting DLL Thoughts Re: AW

From his stream today (starting around 30 minute mark):
"It's not that Tier 1 isn't doing enough, it's that Tier 1 just isn't enough people to run a mode for. . . .
We need to find something with War that engages more people. . . .
I strongly prefer the more traditional approach. . . . The broader point is to find a way to bring more people into the AW pipeline as opposed to the current standard which is more: The people at the top have a lot of fun with it and then the vast, vast majority of the playerbase doesn't even place defenders. . . . "

My opinion? I don't really care either way, but it doesn't appear that there are enough tears in the top tiers to sway Kabam to ignore the reality that AW is dead and it needs to change.

https://youtu.be/BvgZF64wWBc?t=1800

Comments

BigBlueOx

Personally I think reward distribution being so top heavy is far and away the largest deterrent and even then the burden on planners is beyond crazy.

I totally understand the need to experiment but I don’t know why it has to be one or the other in this instance.

LoveScarlet

Is it that difficult to understand why AW is not popular? I think many of you have already pointed out

AW is expensive, super expensive, either from perspective of resources consumption, or time consumption
Many people has already pointed out, adjustment of health potion can make the cost reasonable, but nobody from Kabam did this for almost 2 years, it is a shock.
Reward is really really bad for alliances outside master/P1, even P1 is not good at all. How can you give players the horrible rewards for playing the most expensive game mode?

Solution is easy, I believe I saw many good advices on the forum for many times too

just significantly decrease potion price and increase healing amount, if you say this will decrease revenue of Kabam. Well, killing this game mode would add revenue either right?
bump the rewards for all tiers, especially for all P/G tiers, however, if a player didn't join enough war (set a high bar, e.g., 9 wars), or didn't do enough fight (36 flights), rewards will be reduced based on percentage. Don't make it zero, just do percentage reduction.

Please remember, top alliances mostly fight for the title, regular alliances fight for rewards.

PT_99

Well idk,
Maybe try to overhaul the rewards system of AW other than just buffing masters Tier-1 rewards every single time?

Put 7* crystal in gold bracket and you'll see lower tier Alliances scatch and claw for a chance to spin that crystal just to open 7* warmachine or something.
Giving one 7* per month to those accounts won't change anything.
Lower tier Alliances just don't bother with it because after the month of playing, all they get is chump rewards.

Don't buff rewards = Gets surprised why people aren't playing? 😦😦
Like the war should have best rewards, it's a month long team content.

FunnyDude

Well idk,
Maybe try to overhaul the rewards system of AW other than just buffing masters Tier-1 rewards every single time?

Put 7* crystal in gold bracket and you'll see lower tier Alliances scatch and claw for a chance to spin that crystal just to open 7* warmachine or something.
Giving one 7* per month to those accounts won't change anything.
Lower tier Alliances just don't bother with it because after the month of playing, all they get is chump rewards.

Don't buff rewards = Gets surprised why people aren't playing? 😦😦
Like the war should have best rewards, it's a month long team content.
Bro Kabam lacks common sense. They use AI bots to make there game decisions so they have no sense of reality

I feel the same, and I'm very sure their data analysis tool or AI is not good, they only see the trend but fail to connect the trend with the reason, and unfortunately they also failed to filter noises and get reasonable feedbacks from the community, their devs reply on too much on second-hand information.

ItsClobberinTime

I don't know how I feel about the new map yet, I'll save my final thoughts til after the full season is over but I will say that for me and my alliance, it's all the path assignment and resource investment with very little pay off that drove us away from the game mode and ever since we're just sitting in Gold 1 with no effort whatsoever (we're usually at the top when it comes to BGs and AQ because we do grind both hard and they are mandatory). I remember back when we were in Plat 1 a year and a half ago me and two other officers had to spend at the very least two hours per war just looking at rosters and assigning paths based on defenders and nodes and it was so annoying because if one person didn't have a counter for something we had to start over (shoutout to that one time we didn't realize nobody brought a counter for steady buildup/painful retreat Knull and we had a revive fest) + constantly buying boosts and revives to deal with problematic fights here and there because back then every death mattered in Plat 1 at least.
So, I do think the game mode has to be changed to some extent, AW is waaay too time consuming for me personally and very tiring if you're the one doing path assignments which is why there's so little engagement and most alliances don't take it seriously. On paper I prefer AW this way with not that many fights but I'll have to actually play before I make up my mind fully, maybe they could do two or three defenders per person instead of just one.

unknown

This content has been removed.

HungaryHippo

1. Keep war the same for Tier 1 and bump Plat rewards to be within strike of Masters.
2. New style can be for G1 and below. Also need to bump rewards up.

Seems that would make the most people happy.

ItsClobberinTime

1. Keep war the same for Tier 1 and bump Plat rewards to be within strike of Masters.
2. New style can be for G1 and below. Also need to bump rewards up.

Seems that would make the most people happy.

The whole point isn't getting the top alliances to continue to play just as much as they currently do, the whole point is getting the lower ones to engage more. If the lower ones don't want to aim for the top because of how time consuming and expensive it is to play at the top then nothing changes. The only way they make it work is if they revamp AW on all leagues, and that's what they're doing right now, figuring out what works best because the radiance alone isn't enough incentive. I don't think one defender per person is fine tho, it's too little, but five per person is also waaay too much if you don't have people willing to spend hours planning out wars fully which let's face it anyone below Gold 1 doesn't.

ButteredPopcorn8008

1. Keep war the same for Tier 1 and bump Plat rewards to be within strike of Masters.
2. New style can be for G1 and below. Also need to bump rewards up.

Seems that would make the most people happy.
The whole point isn't getting the top alliances to continue to play just as much as they currently do, the whole point is getting the lower ones to engage more. If the lower ones don't want to aim for the top because of how time consuming and expensive it is to play at the top then nothing changes. The only way they make it work is if they revamp AW on all leagues, and that's what they're doing right now, figuring out what works best because the radiance alone isn't enough incentive. I don't think one defender per person is fine tho, it's too little, but five per person is also waaay too much if you don't have people willing to spend hours planning out wars fully which let's face it anyone below Gold 1 doesn't.

What there trying to find doesn’t exist if there not willing to up rewards 1000000 times over and make war less expensive less stressful. Good like finding a happy medium we all know doesn’t exist with Kabam.

OGAvenger

Stop deleting my comments it’s a free country Kabam needs more money from war and there not admitting it.
You don’t even say anything constructive. All you do is whine and moan
Is that illegal in a free country ?

It’s against forum rules

Jez25

Dont even want to join alliance as AW and AQ are so damn boring.

Terminatrix

TBH if AW is dead due to lack of interest, it's because of Kabam's willfull ignorance on the issues. Many players have spoken on one of the main problems: the overpriced and STILL badly outdated Loyalty store. So what does Kabam do about it? Instead of reducing the costs of resources and reset times, they add a Loyalty crystal, and MORE currency and extra steps to obtain that crystal. After all of that, the rest of the loyalty store still remained overpriced, and loyalty we get for helping alliance members is still only 1,000 per day. OUT--DATED.

2 years later, there has been no update. I don't want to be mean or anything, but for them to continue to dwell in stubborness after so many in the community have spoken is tone deaf and pathetic. The lack of participation is their own fault.

Just look at how Loyalty store resources compare to other stores? Where's the motive for doing AW??

TotemCorruption

Aren't radiance rewards being injected into War?

BringPopcorn

Stop deleting my comments it’s a free country Kabam needs more money from war and there not admitting it.
You don’t even say anything constructive. All you do is whine and moan
Is that illegal in a free country ?

It’s against forum rules

Guy doesn't know the difference between a country and a private owned company...

HulkbusterN1

We placed plat 1 this season (24 place in the world) and I didn’t open even a single 7*. That’s just insane and frustrating. This is the main reason why AW is dead. Probably, introduction of radiance will help.

BigBlueOx

1. Keep war the same for Tier 1 and bump Plat rewards to be within strike of Masters.
2. New style can be for G1 and below. Also need to bump rewards up.

Seems that would make the most people happy.
The whole point isn't getting the top alliances to continue to play just as much as they currently do, the whole point is getting the lower ones to engage more. If the lower ones don't want to aim for the top because of how time consuming and expensive it is to play at the top then nothing changes. The only way they make it work is if they revamp AW on all leagues, and that's what they're doing right now, figuring out what works best because the radiance alone isn't enough incentive. I don't think one defender per person is fine tho, it's too little, but five per person is also waaay too much if you don't have people willing to spend hours planning out wars fully which let's face it anyone below Gold 1 doesn't.

I mean p3 doesn’t really cost much or require planning these days. But the problem then is that p2 and better does and the minimal reward increases aren’t worth the resource, stress or time.

And this new format does absolutely NOTHING to address this discrepancy in reward to effort. All it’s going to do is make war feel like a duller AQ

Magrailothos

Stop deleting my comments it’s a free country Kabam needs more money from war and there not admitting it.
You don’t even say anything constructive. All you do is whine and moan
Is that illegal in a free country ?

It’s against forum rules
Guy doesn't know the difference between a country and a private owned company...

Too much butter has gone to his head.

He should have brought his own popcorn, like you 😉

VanillaCoke

TBH if AW is dead due to lack of interest, it's because of Kabam's willfull ignorance on the issues. Many players have spoken on one of the main problems: the overpriced and STILL badly outdated Loyalty store. So what does Kabam do about it? Instead of reducing the costs of resources and reset times, they add a Loyalty crystal, and MORE currency and extra steps to obtain that crystal. After all of that, the rest of the loyalty store still remained overpriced, and loyalty we get for helping alliance members is still only 1,000 per day. OUT--DATED.

2 years later, there has been no update. I don't want to be mean or anything, but for them to continue to dwell in stubborness after so many in the community have spoken is tone deaf and pathetic. The lack of participation is their own fault.

Just look at how Loyalty store resources compare to other stores? Where's the motive for doing AW??

I would like to hear DLL’s thoughts on why it has remained the way it is. You normally don’t see people shoot themselves in the foot then blame somebody else, it’s not intelligent

Herbal_Taxman

Might have something to do with the fact that many of Kabam’s own people seem deeply invested in t1 war. It can be hard to separate your own POV when you’re the business and the customer.

My read of this situation is that they want more engagement for alliance modes at all levels of progression. Which makes total sense.

What seems odd to me is how they chose this particular design solution for a test. It doesn’t incentivize or even require anything like actual engagement. I did one sub-60 second fight 48 hours ago and haven’t paid a lick of attention AW since.

What’s also odd is how much AQ is not part of the conversation. If they want more allies playing together, for god’s sake, experiment with AQ. Literally no one is emotionally invested in AQ, even if you’re playing at the highest tiers. It’s actually a nice middle ground because it can be collaborative but it’s not nearly as demanding as AW in terms of planning, champ investments, etc. Seems like you could do something with AQ scoring to make it more interesting. Reward people for using no items, or reward them for using less common champs, or lowest fight time, etc. Find a way to influence the scoring and create variability that is tied to something more than a) did you explore the map, and b) what’s your prestige?

It’s just an inert game mode. That should be the place where Kabam plays around and tried new things. But maybe they know they can’t ever earn incremental revenue from AQ and so all the attention and ideas (however misguided) are pouted toward AW…

ButteredPopcorn8008

Might have something to do with the fact that many of Kabam’s own people seem deeply invested in t1 war. It can be hard to separate your own POV when you’re the business and the customer.

My read of this situation is that they want more engagement for alliance modes at all levels of progression. Which makes total sense.

What seems odd to me is how they chose this particular design solution for a test. It doesn’t incentivize or even require anything like actual engagement. I did one sub-60 second fight 48 hours ago and haven’t paid a lick of attention AW since.

What’s also odd is how much AQ is not part of the conversation. If they want more allies playing together, for god’s sake, experiment with AQ. Literally no one is emotionally invested in AQ, even if you’re playing at the highest tiers. It’s actually a nice middle ground because it can be collaborative but it’s not nearly as demanding as AW in terms of planning, champ investments, etc. Seems like you could do something with AQ scoring to make it more interesting. Reward people for using no items, or reward them for using less common champs, or lowest fight time, etc. Find a way to influence the scoring and create variability that is tied to something more than a) did you explore the map, and b) what’s your prestige?

It’s just an inert game mode. That should be the place where Kabam plays around and tried new things. But maybe they know they can’t ever earn incremental revenue from AQ and so all the attention and ideas (however misguided) are pouted toward AW…

The problem is no matter what they do they will never get the income off war that makes Kabam happy. No players are looking to drop money on potions snd boosts ever ever ever unless they dramatically lower the costs to Pennie’s on the dollar.

VanillaCoke

Might have something to do with the fact that many of Kabam’s own people seem deeply invested in t1 war. It can be hard to separate your own POV when you’re the business and the customer.

My read of this situation is that they want more engagement for alliance modes at all levels of progression. Which makes total sense.

What seems odd to me is how they chose this particular design solution for a test. It doesn’t incentivize or even require anything like actual engagement. I did one sub-60 second fight 48 hours ago and haven’t paid a lick of attention AW since.

What’s also odd is how much AQ is not part of the conversation. If they want more allies playing together, for god’s sake, experiment with AQ. Literally no one is emotionally invested in AQ, even if you’re playing at the highest tiers. It’s actually a nice middle ground because it can be collaborative but it’s not nearly as demanding as AW in terms of planning, champ investments, etc. Seems like you could do something with AQ scoring to make it more interesting. Reward people for using no items, or reward them for using less common champs, or lowest fight time, etc. Find a way to influence the scoring and create variability that is tied to something more than a) did you explore the map, and b) what’s your prestige?

It’s just an inert game mode. That should be the place where Kabam plays around and tried new things. But maybe they know they can’t ever earn incremental revenue from AQ and so all the attention and ideas (however misguided) are pouted toward AW…
The problem is no matter what they do they will never get the income off war that makes Kabam happy. No players are looking to drop money on potions snd boosts ever ever ever unless they dramatically lower the costs to Pennie’s on the dollar.

It’s not income that Kabam is looking for in these game modes. By that reasoning, Kabam would’ve cut out AQ because nobody spends money on it. What they are looking for is engagement with the mode.

If you, as Kabam, see a majority of players and alliances not interacting with the game modes as you’d like such as setting your defense or not bothering with Attack - it gives you the sobering conclusion that a change is needed

Lost____one

If kabam looking for suggestions:

All alliance members auto join war with defenders placed. No locking of champions from any other mode. Leadership can choose defenders from rosters and move anyone to and from any battleground. Players who do not want to do war not inconvenienced and helpful to alliance. Small reward to acknowledge participation and encourage participation in attack.

Attack side- better solo rewards for wins during season and added for individual war. Bonus "bounties" ie one or two random defenders give extra reward for defeat. Random and different every time and would give an additional engagement.

Increase the amount of energy/decrease cost of energy refill. Easier to find time to do aw. Easier too coordinate.

Lower tiers - use champ switch like incursions.

Ditto on other suggestions on rewards on all but top levels and cost of aw.

ButteredPopcorn8008

If kabam looking for suggestions:

All alliance members auto join war with defenders placed. No locking of champions from any other mode. Leadership can choose defenders from rosters and move anyone to and from any battleground. Players who do not want to do war not inconvenienced and helpful to alliance. Small reward to acknowledge participation and encourage participation in attack.

Attack side- better solo rewards for wins during season and added for individual war. Bonus "bounties" ie one or two random defenders give extra reward for defeat. Random and different every time and would give an additional engagement.

Increase the amount of energy/decrease cost of energy refill. Easier to find time to do aw. Easier too coordinate.

Lower tiers - use champ switch like incursions.

Ditto on other suggestions on rewards on all but top levels and cost of aw.

Letting leaders and officers choose defenders and not locking them would solve a lot of issues

ButteredPopcorn8008

Defense needs to be easier to set and there is no reason to lock defenders from other modes. Simple

ItsClobberinTime

1. Keep war the same for Tier 1 and bump Plat rewards to be within strike of Masters.
2. New style can be for G1 and below. Also need to bump rewards up.

Seems that would make the most people happy.
The whole point isn't getting the top alliances to continue to play just as much as they currently do, the whole point is getting the lower ones to engage more. If the lower ones don't want to aim for the top because of how time consuming and expensive it is to play at the top then nothing changes. The only way they make it work is if they revamp AW on all leagues, and that's what they're doing right now, figuring out what works best because the radiance alone isn't enough incentive. I don't think one defender per person is fine tho, it's too little, but five per person is also waaay too much if you don't have people willing to spend hours planning out wars fully which let's face it anyone below Gold 1 doesn't.
I mean p3 doesn’t really cost much or require planning these days. But the problem then is that p2 and better does and the minimal reward increases aren’t worth the resource, stress or time.

And this new format does absolutely NOTHING to address this discrepancy in reward to effort. All it’s going to do is make war feel like a duller AQ

I wouldn't know we haven't taken war seriously in over a year but the fact that p3 doesn't require that much effort either these days just speaks volumes about the current state of war, it's dying.
Rewards are definitely getting better now that radiance is being added to the rewards but I still think it's way too time consuming.

As for your second comment I'd rather this than 50 defenders though, even if they buffed actual rewards or the loyalty store I still wouldn't play war. Like I said, I had to spend two hours every single war looking at all rosters making sure we had counters for everything and assigning paths and I'm permanently burned out from that lol.

ButteredPopcorn8008

Some of these node combos don’t make sense help us out Kabam

ItsClobberinTime

Some of these node combos don’t make sense help us out Kabam

Get good you're always complaining about content being hard jeez.

ButteredPopcorn8008

No way