Battlegrounds Matchmaking/Whales

I wanted to talk about battlegrounds for a little bit. As I have continued to play the game now for some time and have been grinding as much content as I can during my free time, I've come to the conclusion that battlegrounds is the pay-to-win feature of MCOC.

The rewards with radiance have been a nice addition, however, because of this, whales have separated an even larger gap between F2P players. I have now encountered multiple rosters with quite a few rank 4's and 7* dark phoenix's and with the addition of human torch coming soon, it's going to cause an even bigger gap now. Sure, "just ban them", but then that takes away from another champ that may need to be banned and now banning isn't a strategy as much of a necessity against pure power from rosters. As a mostly free-to-play player (casually spend during big events like during Christmas) I can't even keep up with the rosters I'm being matched with in BG because even when I play perfectly in certain match ups, I have lost and dropped rank significantly just because other players can spend more than me and have a way deeper/higher rank roster than myself.

I really would like for matchmaking to not just be for current rank rating (ex. Arcane 1 with Arcane 1) but also maybe prestige or average battle deck power rating instead. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels like this and would be interested in what the community has to say.

Comments

Furrymoosen

So you should have a shot at moving up the ranks to the best rewards that doesn't take you through the bigger accounts that are also competing for those same rewards? That doesn't seem fair in the slightest.

At some point Kabam does need to bring a fix that helps smaller accounts enjoy the game mode more. But the fix is absolutely not changing matchmaking. We're all going after the same rewards, so we should all have to compete against one another for them. But I don't know what the fix could really be. If they gave Valiants their own separate rewards, that doesn't solve the gap between a fresh Valiant with two R3s verses someone like me with five R4s. Where do they draw the line?

BringPopcorn

You are not going to be happy with BGs next season after J4 sales then 🤣

ahmynuts

Savag3r

My understanding of BGs is that it is to prove who are the best players in the game, not who spends the most amount of money. The rewards are what drives the players to participate yes, and I do believe that if you're spending the money in the game then you should be rewarded well, but if they're not good at the game why does it make sense that money should take away from people who are actually more skillful or knowledgeable of the game? I remember working my way up and losing to rosters by just sitting on pause because their defensive champs were way better. I'm not saying I'm the best out there or above middle-class even, it just doesn't make much sense to me that that is the reward we think people should gain from spending money in a game.

For example a group of young kids start playing this one sport. Some kids come from wealthier backgrounds and then there's some players who don't. Do the wealthier players automatically go pro? No. It's the players who practice and get better despite the money they put in. It shouldn't matter based on how much money they spend on the game they play. I don't know if that makes much sense, and the analogy will be flawed to some degree, but just processing through this lens of forums.

Zacharias10719

I wanted to talk about battlegrounds for a little bit. As I have continued to play the game now for some time and have been grinding as much content as I can during my free time, I've come to the conclusion that battlegrounds is the pay-to-win feature of MCOC.

The rewards with radiance have been a nice addition, however, because of this, whales have separated an even larger gap between F2P players. I have now encountered multiple rosters with quite a few rank 4's and 7* dark phoenix's and with the addition of human torch coming soon, it's going to cause an even bigger gap now. Sure, "just ban them", but then that takes away from another champ that may need to be banned and now banning isn't a strategy as much of a necessity against pure power from rosters. As a mostly free-to-play player (casually spend during big events like during Christmas) I can't even keep up with the rosters I'm being matched with in BG because even when I play perfectly in certain match ups, I have lost and dropped rank significantly just because other players can spend more than me and have a way deeper/higher rank roster than myself.

I really would like for matchmaking to not just be for current rank rating (ex. Arcane 1 with Arcane 1) but also maybe prestige or average battle deck power rating instead. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels like this and would be interested in what the community has to say.

What's your roster look like? Bgs isn't a race. It's a marathon over time and over seasons. You build your roster and you progress over time.

You need to accept that you will hit a ceiling every season where your roster and/or skills can't compete and take the rewards wherever that lands.

If you haven't done all the content, you need to do that for the rank ups and progression. If you have (which should give you 4/5 r4s right now) and you're still not happy with your final rank then as a ftp you're going to have to hit arena and hit it hard for units so you can get progression from the sale events.

Asking for kabam to give easy access for the same rewards isn't gonna work.

DrZola

A couple of thoughts:

1. BGs are not designed to prove who the best players in the game are.
2. While not determinative, real world resources invested will always be a significant factor in BGs.

Dr. Zola

Savag3r

I think that makes sense with hitting a ceiling every season and it being a marathon, especially as the game needs to continue to grow over time to increase the longevity of it.

I guess I just don't understand the fact that wins come from money in a video game that has quite a high skill cap. Which is why I'm sure this may be viewed more as a rant than helpful.

Flavyjay

I think that makes sense with hitting a ceiling every season and it being a marathon, especially as the game needs to continue to grow over time to increase the longevity of it.

I guess I just don't understand the fact that wins come from money in a video game that has quite a high skill cap. Which is why I'm sure this may be viewed more as a rant than helpful.

Honestly you bring up good points, that have been talked in this forum for a while now, but almost everybody on here treat this as a common practice, like bruh MCOC monetisation strategy will never get beyond this community because they have been so used to sh**ty things in this game they can't understand what balance means.

Robobot

While fighting against whales is a large problem in bgs, there isn't really a proper reason to fix it without some group of players getting angry. Making it easier for smaller/ftp rosters to get rewards just feels cheap and some players with larger rosters will complain. Do I think a skill based mode should exist, Absolutely. Winning because you have a better roster but being a worse player is dum dum logic but I don't know if they will ever implement a "skill based" version of battlegrounds.

Furrymoosen

My understanding of BGs is that it is to prove who are the best players in the game, not who spends the most amount of money. The rewards are what drives the players to participate yes, and I do believe that if you're spending the money in the game then you should be rewarded well, but if they're not good at the game why does it make sense that money should take away from people who are actually more skillful or knowledgeable of the game? I remember working my way up and losing to rosters by just sitting on pause because their defensive champs were way better. I'm not saying I'm the best out there or above middle-class even, it just doesn't make much sense to me that that is the reward we think people should gain from spending money in a game.

For example a group of young kids start playing this one sport. Some kids come from wealthier backgrounds and then there's some players who don't. Do the wealthier players automatically go pro? No. It's the players who practice and get better despite the money they put in. It shouldn't matter based on how much money they spend on the game they play. I don't know if that makes much sense, and the analogy will be flawed to some degree, but just processing through this lens of forums.

Players that spend don't inherently win. Often times, players that spend more are actually worse at the game and use money to make up for where they lack.
At the end of the day, BGs is not a game mode solely dedicated to proving who the most skilled player out there is. If it were so, then MSD would be out here with 2* G99 in his deck wreaking havoc.
BGs has three components to it; skill, roster and draft. It's not about who the most skilled player is, rather it's about who can best bring those three components together. In some cases, yeah, you might lose to an opponent because their deck is that much stronger and they don't need as much skill or luck in the draft to beat you, but that doesn't change that they need to bring those three things together.

Frumpy_geezer

While fighting against whales is a large problem in bgs, there isn't really a proper reason to fix it without some group of players getting angry. Making it easier for smaller/ftp rosters to get rewards just feels cheap and some players with larger rosters will complain. Do I think a skill based mode should exist, Absolutely. Winning because you have a better roster but being a worse player is dum dum logic but I don't know if they will ever implement a "skill based" version of battlegrounds.

That seems like what is coming down the pike with the 2 star thing coming up:
Fantastic Force Recruitment

Competitive Meta Event
2* Focus
Everyone competes with the same roster
52 specific champs to use
Highest ranks get Featured 7*

ContestOfNoobs

Dude

So where are the “big” rosters and skilled players suppose to do in game if battlegrounds didnt exist?

I already mindlessly grind arena with my big rosters

Already 100% epoch, and just waiting on more revives to do wheel of fate lol all done with free revives we get everyday

Im about to drop $400-500 on 4th of July to prob get a lot of r4 7*’s lol.

Where else are they suppose to be used? Rank up some defenders or attackers for war?

Other than that yea whats points of having 10+ r4 7*’s if I do all the content in the game?

If there’s no competition then why am I getting more r4 7*’s earlier than people ?

People wana compete for rewards lol and those with money keep this game alive

Zacharias10719

I think that makes sense with hitting a ceiling every season and it being a marathon, especially as the game needs to continue to grow over time to increase the longevity of it.

I guess I just don't understand the fact that wins come from money in a video game that has quite a high skill cap. Which is why I'm sure this may be viewed more as a rant than helpful.

Genuine question. Do you play the matches when you're matched with what you feel is a whale deck or do you just forfeit it? I ask because a lot of times accounts might look/be massive but the player behind them isn't very good or better than you and you will win. I've beaten plenty of accounts that have dwarfed mine due to them just not being as good at the game.

Also, look at it this way. Almost all competitions in sport are dictated by money. The richest teams usually win the most championships.

Savag3r

I think that makes sense with hitting a ceiling every season and it being a marathon, especially as the game needs to continue to grow over time to increase the longevity of it.

I guess I just don't understand the fact that wins come from money in a video game that has quite a high skill cap. Which is why I'm sure this may be viewed more as a rant than helpful.
Genuine question. Do you play the matches when you're matched with what you feel is a whale deck or do you just forfeit it? I ask because a lot of times accounts might look/be massive but the player behind them isn't very good or better than you and you will win. I've beaten plenty of accounts that have dwarfed mine due to them just not being as good at the game.

Also, look at it this way. Almost all competitions in sport are dictated by money. The richest teams usually win the most championships.

I always play it through because in my experience I usually end up even winning against some crazy rank 4 rosters cause they don't know how to fight or just don't and pause through. And your response is sort of what I'm trying to exude some frustration on where the player behind the account isn't usually good which is why it doesn't always make sense to me that some of those rosters are able to get more radiance for not having to do much at the rank they are placed in BG.

And yeah, I think that's a good counterpoint that more pro teams have a history of doing better more often. There are still those teams that contend with not as much money cap and still end up beating out those teams too though.

Savag3r

Dude

So where are the “big” rosters and skilled players suppose to do in game if battlegrounds didnt exist?

I already mindlessly grind arena with my big rosters

Already 100% epoch, and just waiting on more revives to do wheel of fate lol all done with free revives we get everyday

Im about to drop $400-500 on 4th of July to prob get a lot of r4 7*’s lol.

Where else are they suppose to be used? Rank up some defenders or attackers for war?

Other than that yea whats points of having 10+ r4 7*’s if I do all the content in the game?

If there’s no competition then why am I getting more r4 7*’s earlier than people ?

People wana compete for rewards lol and those with money keep this game alive

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a place for them, I agree that those accounts are what keeps the game alive as well.

What I'm trying to get at is that some people who have spent more time in the game and getting matched with someone of a significantly higher account, like those rank 4 dark phoenixs just takes the fun and skill out of the game sometimes. I was giving the solution that players with a closer average in power index would get matched up more against each other, which I think is a possibility for sure. That way as the ranks go up higher, the whales or the thinner rosters are more filtered by skill cap too as they work their way up.

CheeseMaster482

Roster grounds will always be about how developed your roster is and never how skilled you are. You can be the better player but still lose because all your champs are rank 2 while the opponent has a full deck of rank 3s and 4s

Savag3r

I think that makes sense with hitting a ceiling every season and it being a marathon, especially as the game needs to continue to grow over time to increase the longevity of it.

I guess I just don't understand the fact that wins come from money in a video game that has quite a high skill cap. Which is why I'm sure this may be viewed more as a rant than helpful.
Honestly you bring up good points, that have been talked in this forum for a while now, but almost everybody on here treat this as a common practice, like bruh MCOC monetisation strategy will never get beyond this community because they have been so used to sh**ty things in this game they can't understand what balance means.

Yeah and I get all that with monetization and this being covered before. This is my first time actually being active on the forums and wanted to post just cause I wanted to voice my own frustrations rather than trying to push for some crazy revolution which I think most on here think is what I'm doing lol, I mean look at me, this is my first post haha I don't know how to talk about this.

But yeah, appreciate the insight and understanding.

Demonzfyre

My understanding of BGs is that it is to prove who are the best players in the game, not who spends the most amount of money. The rewards are what drives the players to participate yes, and I do believe that if you're spending the money in the game then you should be rewarded well, but if they're not good at the game why does it make sense that money should take away from people who are actually more skillful or knowledgeable of the game? I remember working my way up and losing to rosters by just sitting on pause because their defensive champs were way better. I'm not saying I'm the best out there or above middle-class even, it just doesn't make much sense to me that that is the reward we think people should gain from spending money in a game.

For example a group of young kids start playing this one sport. Some kids come from wealthier backgrounds and then there's some players who don't. Do the wealthier players automatically go pro? No. It's the players who practice and get better despite the money they put in. It shouldn't matter based on how much money they spend on the game they play. I don't know if that makes much sense, and the analogy will be flawed to some degree, but just processing through this lens of forums.

You're confused. The only pay to play aspect of of BGs is people who have spent money to get big rosters. You can't pay money to be good at BGs. Many of these players buy their way through content. Sure their roster is big but most likely, they don't have have the skills to compete, especially if they're in the lower brackets.

There are many with big rosters and good skill but they are already at the top in BGs. You most likely aren't facing them unless you're in celestial.

ahmynuts

My understanding of BGs is that it is to prove who are the best players in the game, not who spends the most amount of money. The rewards are what drives the players to participate yes, and I do believe that if you're spending the money in the game then you should be rewarded well, but if they're not good at the game why does it make sense that money should take away from people who are actually more skillful or knowledgeable of the game? I remember working my way up and losing to rosters by just sitting on pause because their defensive champs were way better. I'm not saying I'm the best out there or above middle-class even, it just doesn't make much sense to me that that is the reward we think people should gain from spending money in a game.

For example a group of young kids start playing this one sport. Some kids come from wealthier backgrounds and then there's some players who don't. Do the wealthier players automatically go pro? No. It's the players who practice and get better despite the money they put in. It shouldn't matter based on how much money they spend on the game they play. I don't know if that makes much sense, and the analogy will be flawed to some degree, but just processing through this lens of forums.
You're confused. The only pay to play aspect of of BGs is people who have spent money to get big rosters. You can't pay money to be good at BGs. Many of these players buy their way through content. Sure their roster is big but most likely, they don't have have the skills to compete, especially if they're in the lower brackets.

There are many with big rosters and good skill but they are already at the top in BGs. You most likely aren't facing them unless you're in celestial.

Stop making sense they can't understand

Syndicated

Last year was the same with r3 champs, people got totally Big account bumps, so, we'll see the same this year

BloodyRose

Matchmaking already matches within your current rank OR if no one is available within your rank, against someone that is available above or below.

I just find it's weird that, with 5 days left, I'm still fighting accounts with 3 or more r4s and the remainder is all r3s. Unless they got a late start, it's curious why they'd be hanging around VT when they could be in GC getting the radiance.

DNA3000

I really would like for matchmaking to not just be for current rank rating (ex. Arcane 1 with Arcane 1) but also maybe prestige or average battle deck power rating instead. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels like this and would be interested in what the community has to say.

You aren't the only person who feels that way. However, you're all wrong.

Or rather, wrong isn't the right word. Rather, you want something the game is not here to provide you with. You want to decide who is fair to fight and who is not. But in Battlegrounds, ironically the only thing that decides that is your performance on the field. If you have a certain rating and the other guy also has that rating, that's a rating that was won on the battlefield. You match against everyone else fighting at the same rating. Nothing else matters.

We can't tell spenders well, sure, you paid for the entire game, you're the only reason we have a game, so out of the goodness of our hearts we'll let you actually use those things you paid for here and there, maybe in the solo content, but that's it. Take it or leave it. We'll take your money, and then we'll decide where you get to use what you spend. Be thankful we even let you use that stuff in end game content, its bad enough we have to deal with end game content balanced around your whale accounts.

Its weird that I even have to say this, but spenders can't be discriminated against. In this game, spending is fair. It has to be, or the entire game falls apart.

DNA3000

Matchmaking already matches within your current rank OR if no one is available within your rank, against someone that is available above or below.

I just find it's weird that, with 5 days left, I'm still fighting accounts with 3 or more r4s and the remainder is all r3s. Unless they got a late start, it's curious why they'd be hanging around VT when they could be in GC getting the radiance.

A lot of those players wait to the last minute and then make a push into GC n the last few days, because it is at the very end of the season when that push is as easy as it will ever be.

KillerM

Just stop if you reach GC, there’s no point competing with whales and sadly most of them are very skilled as well. You will always stay behind those players dont make yourself the illusion you will surpase then. Easy is that

Qwerty12345

Spending has always been an advantage in the game. Whether its having more champions to grind arena with, more resources to get through content, more higher ranked champions, etc.

BGs is no different. If they wanted otherwise, then either Kabam would give you all the champs just for that mode, or at make it so that only 4 stars were playable, which anyone can get with a few rounds of arena (although newer players would still have to get lucky with some "bad" crystals.

At times, the difference is minor. 2 months before R4s came out... most free to play rosters at the end game could still fill a BG deck with R3s if they wanted... but yeah, when R4s came out, the whale effect kicked in, and the most you spent the more advantage you got... for a while.

By December, this effect will be all but gone (but of course, 6-12 months after that.. R5s will be out, and we'll be having this conversation all over again).

Whales don't just buy the deal for the materials that come in it... but for the advantage it gives them... if there wasn't one... significantly less money would be spent on the game, and the game would have to either change pricing models so that everyone paid a subscription fee, be full of ads, or possibly just shut down.

I'm not saying this is the beset model... but it is viable, and we've all learned to live with it or gone to another game.

hungryhungrybbq

I wanted to talk about battlegrounds for a little bit. As I have continued to play the game now for some time and have been grinding as much content as I can during my free time, I've come to the conclusion that battlegrounds is the pay-to-win feature of MCOC.

The rewards with radiance have been a nice addition, however, because of this, whales have separated an even larger gap between F2P players. I have now encountered multiple rosters with quite a few rank 4's and 7* dark phoenix's and with the addition of human torch coming soon, it's going to cause an even bigger gap now. Sure, "just ban them", but then that takes away from another champ that may need to be banned and now banning isn't a strategy as much of a necessity against pure power from rosters. As a mostly free-to-play player (casually spend during big events like during Christmas) I can't even keep up with the rosters I'm being matched with in BG because even when I play perfectly in certain match ups, I have lost and dropped rank significantly just because other players can spend more than me and have a way deeper/higher rank roster than myself.

I really would like for matchmaking to not just be for current rank rating (ex. Arcane 1 with Arcane 1) but also maybe prestige or average battle deck power rating instead. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels like this and would be interested in what the community has to say.

Lol.. no
Years ago Kabam experimented with an unpure form of matching in a competitive game mode.. AW matching that was Prestige based..Many of you will remember why it didn't work and why AW matching was reverted back to strictly War Rating

It's the most fair/pure way to do matching in a competitive game mode.. win and you advance, lose and you drop down, end of story

Just for reference.. I have alliance mates that have double my R4, etc.
So I'm not speaking from the "Whale" camp

RevHeresy

BG still requires skill above all. I spend, got 4 R4’s and still get wrecked at times. My thumbs and brain do not cooperate. That said, if you all ever match up against me and think about forfeiting, i guarantee you got a 50/50 chance of owning me.

Will3808

I really would like for matchmaking to not just be for current rank rating (ex. Arcane 1 with Arcane 1) but also maybe prestige or average battle deck power rating instead. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels like this and would be interested in what the community has to say.

This would be the most unfair matchmaking system ever. Imagine someone who’s normally in the middle of gladiator circuit, but doesn’t want to fight larger accounts, decided to make a new account for battlegrounds. They keep prestige and the bottom of their deck low, and they cruise up towards very high rewards because all they had to do was fight people who had the same deck as them but significantly less experience. That’s an extreme example, but it’s not unlikely.

There are problems with every system. I get frustrated at our battlegrounds system sometimes too, but it’s the most fair way to do it. If you reach your peak in bgs, go explore content to get rank 4 7*s and then go back to battlegrounds. I’m ftp and that’s what I did. I’m still at a disadvantage because the bottom of my deck is worse than most people where I am in gc, but I stand a fighting chance.

Will3808

I think that makes sense with hitting a ceiling every season and it being a marathon, especially as the game needs to continue to grow over time to increase the longevity of it.

I guess I just don't understand the fact that wins come from money in a video game that has quite a high skill cap. Which is why I'm sure this may be viewed more as a rant than helpful.
Honestly you bring up good points, that have been talked in this forum for a while now, but almost everybody on here treat this as a common practice, like bruh MCOC monetisation strategy will never get beyond this community because they have been so used to sh**ty things in this game they can't understand what balance means.
Yeah and I get all that with monetization and this being covered before. This is my first time actually being active on the forums and wanted to post just cause I wanted to voice my own frustrations rather than trying to push for some crazy revolution which I think most on here think is what I'm doing lol, I mean look at me, this is my first post haha I don't know how to talk about this.

But yeah, appreciate the insight and understanding.

Read my previous comment with a grain of salt cause I didn’t know this was your first post. For some context, this gets posted all the time, so it’s really easy to rile up people about it. With that said, I still suggest going and doing endgame solo content to beef up your roster. The time to rewards ratio is so much better there than battlegrounds. I love battlegrounds, but hard solo content is where the fun is at.

DNA3000

I think that makes sense with hitting a ceiling every season and it being a marathon, especially as the game needs to continue to grow over time to increase the longevity of it.

I guess I just don't understand the fact that wins come from money in a video game that has quite a high skill cap. Which is why I'm sure this may be viewed more as a rant than helpful.
Honestly you bring up good points, that have been talked in this forum for a while now, but almost everybody on here treat this as a common practice, like bruh MCOC monetisation strategy will never get beyond this community because they have been so used to sh**ty things in this game they can't understand what balance means.

Yeah. How about we turn this into a discussion over who has the most experience with playing, studying, and working with massively multiplayers online games and who has the best understanding of what game balance means.

Somehow, I think someone who's opinion of the monetization of the game is that Kabam is too greedy because players need units just to progress in the game, who thinks progression in this game is far harder and more expensive than most other mobile games they've played, is going to have some difficulty there.