How much monetization is too much?

Listen, I get it. The game has to make money to survive. But I worry we are reaching (or have passed) a tipping point of sustainability.

After 3 mega sales/unit draining events I couldn’t be less excited for the reunion event and Statcasts as it just seems like trying the drain whale milk from dried whale bones at this point.

Nothing about this current approach encourages casual spending, it’s all in or you don’t matter… which is fatiguing for the whole community. FTP feels the ever growing gap, casual spenders say “what’s the point” more than ever, and dolphin spenders are saying “no mas”. I gotta imagine even the largest spenders must feel some level of… wtf… another cash focused event incoming.

But maybe this is all just my personal take… and I’m on an island here. That’s ok… but if not I gotta ask… is this current direction a step too far?

Comments

GroundedWisdom

Anyway, I've said enough. It's time I moved on. I do agree there's been a heavy emphasis on monetization lately, and it would be nice to have an Event that wasn't spending-based. I just don't agree with a number of the points raised here, and that's fine. We don't all have to see things eye-to-eye.

startropics

Yes, let's take it to a personal level because I don't agree with your point of view. I'm reading every word people are saying. I just don't agree. People don't take responsibility for their own choices enough in my opinion.
varied opinions are ok, everyone has them, but objective facts are a thing and the fact is, the spending ceiling has gone up 4-6x in the last say 7-9 years while the experience has basically stayed the same (ranks resetting every year).

why disregard evidence?
The experience hasn't stayed the same. We wouldn't be here if it did. You're using your own personal view as evidence, and that's subjective.

the experience has stayed the same in the sense that every year we get the same dopamine rush chasing rank up or champion materials and every january it resets to a higher rank.

purchase limits used to be 1x, now it's 4x, so clearing out july used to cost ~$200 total, now it's $800 or $1200 if you get the relic odins yet the experience hasn't really changed. the game was fun then and it's still fun now but is it 4x-6x as much fun?

if they had a giant whale out every month for a year straight, and we paid 10x-20x what we paid in 2015-2017, is the game 10x-20x more fun? imo no, diluting orange juice into more and more drinks doesn't make each drink taste better or likely increase our sense of fun over a year, we're just paying more.

startropics

Anyway, I've said enough. It's time I moved on. I do agree there's been a heavy emphasis on monetization lately, and it would be nice to have an Event that wasn't spending-based. I just don't agree with a number of the points raised here, and that's fine. We don't all have to see things eye-to-eye.

good night sweet prince. 6 years ago you would have a left a bloody trail of bans, jailings, and party balloons on your way out of a locked thread.

seriously, have a good one.

Polygon

You are living under a Rock with how dense some of these takes are @GroundedWisdom

I am f2p but I still maxed both of the unit deals for July 4th and Cyber Monday of last year in return I got Kraven and weapon x two Champions that are not doing anything for me.

At this time those gated champions were not that much of a must-have weaponx was pretty decent at one point but by no means was anybody missing out by not having him

But now we have human torch which is one of the best science Champs you can see the change in Direction going from the Champs I listed above to a top science champ. This is infact monetization

People are fine with the whales getting advantages in rank up materials shards Crystal selectors but when the champions are not obtainable by any other means then it raises the eyebrow

ItsClobberinTime

More to the point, it's a business. There's no such thing as too much. We can still play for free if we choose.
from a customer POV, the oversaturation of offers literally waters down the product and also makes us less excited for big deals since they're happening like every other month now. they're good and exciting in a sense and fund the game, but still.

end gamers might be paying $5000 a year for the same experience they had for $800 8 years ago. it's just not worth spending anymore since ranks reset every year anyway. why feel FOMO when you can just wait it out.
That's entirely up to you, and I'm sure other people feel that way as well. That doesn't mean they're going to stop marketing. Others will spend, and more power to them. It keeps the game going.
What a brain dead reply lol what's better 10 whales dropping 1k in an event or 10 whales + 100 low to mid end spenders also spending on said event because spending, even if just half of what whales spend, gets you good stuff too?which do you think would keep the game running for longer too? You're so dense you're not getting the point, this isn't even about f2p players mainly it's about the fact that even p2w players are getting sick of tKabam's greediness.
What's brain dead is taking it personally that they're introducing ways to make more money when that's been keeping the lights on for 10 and a half years.
Wouldn't the locial thing be making lower offers more appealing as well so low toid end spenders are also encouraged to spend instead of just whales? Think before you reply again please.

As for your ten years comment, I already told you, sales have been getting more expensive gradually not jumping from $400 to $600 in a span of three months, that's predatory and greedy indeed.
I'm sorry, are the only Offers available the $600 ones you're referring to? I'm quite positive the game offers a range of things for money. You're talking about things as if they're unilateral, and that's not the case.
I have no idea what you're talking about when you keep referencing $400 to $600, but there's nothing predatory about "We are offering X and it will cost Y.". Whether Y was $400, or $600 is irrelevant. That's what's being offered, and part of being an adult is making our own financial decisions. We either decide to buy it, or we don't.
Yes, but those lower offers were bad compared to what the whales received. They killed most of the incentive when they made Torch available for $600 instead of $400 like Red Guardian, that's being greedy.

I keep referencing the fact that Red Guardian was available for $400 while Torch went up to $600 for absolutely no reason other than pure greed. You don't even know what I'm referencing and you're arguing lol.

Correct, but wouldn't the smart thing be to try to get as many people to buy it by offering rewards that align more with what the big spenders are getting instead of creating a huge gap between whales and low to mid spenders? Of course whales will get more but the difference should not be this big, they're trying to use FOMO and high prices
as incentive when they really should be using the items inside the offers themselves as incentive. It's almost like you have no common sense whatsoever, truly baffling.
Why are you comparing J4 with Red Guardian? Not related at all. For that matter, there's no set amount. I'm not going to argue that you find it disincentivizing if that's how you feel. I can respect that. I just don't see the connection you're making. No one ever said spending the same amount would get Torch. Also, I believe you spent Units for Torch, not money.

They're both spending events with a chase champ? How do you not see how both have the exact same structure just a different event name?

I know, no one said explicitly that it would be exactly the same GW, what I'm trying to explain to you is that the increase in price for the chase champ and the mid rewards unless you went all in left a bad taste in the mouth of everyone on this thread, both spenders and non spenders, and the same sentiment is shared by people in other platforms it's not just forums. If you don't have an issue with it and you don't spend any money cool this isn't a problem for you and you can move on, but for some of us it is an issue because it's killing our desire to spend.

As for the Torch thing, no he is available for $600 as well in the webstore milestones. You're not even well informed on this matter yet you're over here arguing like you know everything, you clearly don't.

Sachhyam257

Let me share my perspective on why I've started to become disillusioned with the game and where it is headed.

Rewinding back to a bit over a month ago, I had 3 r4s that I managed to get by putting in some effort and completing content (9.2, epoch, gauntlet, etc.), and it was all done f2p. For comparison, most youtubers were ahead of me by 2-3 r4s, which was fair considering they played higher tier AW, BGs, and spent on the poolshield/hof event. They still had way bigger r3 rosters and access to champs I couldn't get as a f2p, but I was fine with that gap.

I was never competing with these guys on the same level, but it felt I was following them close behind. So whenever a new piece of content came up, I felt like I could hop in together with them and a lot of the community in the forum/discord. It felt like joint effort where we're all trying to get those quests done, open those rewards, and share what we got.

Then, this sale event rolls around and overnight a lot of these guys effectively doubled the size of their r4 rosters. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame them for spending. That's their business. I understand they need to stay competitive at the top and that they have the means to be able to spend on this game. That said, how easily they were able to just double their r4s doesn't set a great precedent for future events imo. Kabam sold nearly double the amount of r4s in this event than what is available for f2p players to obtain. Then you consider all the other sale events left in the year, the eidol champs, new relics, plat tracks, and all the old guard 6*s yet to move up to 7*s like hulkling, doom, cgr, kitty, etc. It just seems like a lot, I got left behind in what feels like an instant and it has killed my enthusiasm for upcoming content and events.

filledwithlove

Fair enough, guy does quite a successful job of convincing people he's "dense" and "illogical" when he's clearly aware of his intentions. He shouldn't be taken seriously, its just a waste of your time but not his. Gotta realise that he's not here to argue or play the contrarian and its not because he's dumb or anything, he just enjoys his job on the forums. Just let him be and block if he's bothering you. Just don't waste your time which probably holds a lot more value than his.

BringPopcorn

I stopped caring so much about the game I don't even wanna argue with GW, that's how bad the game has gotten.

JESUSCHRIST

Seriously what's the point of you guys arguing in forums when the whales don't even use the forums

The whales are still buying up all the offers

Just look at the quarterly financial reporting by Netmarble to see if the sales in each quarter are taken up by the whales

If the revenue contribution from Kabam is dropping every quarter, it means that the whales have stopped spending as much

If not it means that the whales are still spending like there's no tomorrow

JESUSCHRIST

If there is demand from the whales den Kabam will definitely come up with more sales more frequently

MrSimon

They will be pushing untill the game dies from greed. I think they will go even harder next year and then in 2 years when 8s come game will either die or will just be 100 alliances left or something. Greed has overtaken them, it's sickening to watch any youtuber except seating as ftp player

MrSimon

Try to put in this perspective for all those who say they need to make money for game to survive. World of warcraft has been around for more then 20 years and all it requires is 10 euro a month and it's far bigger and more complex game. Can u imagine what would happen to WoW if they decided hey let's make new legendary items and sell them for 1k euro. This is big money for someone like me who works 10 hours a day , 6 days a week for 800 euro a month.

Herbal_Taxman

Yes, let's take it to a personal level because I don't agree with your point of view. I'm reading every word people are saying. I just don't agree. People don't take responsibility for their own choices enough in my opinion.
varied opinions are ok, everyone has them, but objective facts are a thing and the fact is, the spending ceiling has gone up 4-6x in the last say 7-9 years while the experience has basically stayed the same (ranks resetting every year).

why disregard evidence?
The experience hasn't stayed the same. We wouldn't be here if it did. You're using your own personal view as evidence, and that's subjective.
the experience has stayed the same in the sense that every year we get the same dopamine rush chasing rank up or champion materials and every january it resets to a higher rank.

purchase limits used to be 1x, now it's 4x, so clearing out july used to cost ~$200 total, now it's $800 or $1200 if you get the relic odins yet the experience hasn't really changed. the game was fun then and it's still fun now but is it 4x-6x as much fun?

if they had a giant whale out every month for a year straight, and we paid 10x-20x what we paid in 2015-2017, is the game 10x-20x more fun? imo no, diluting orange juice into more and more drinks doesn't make each drink taste better or likely increase our sense of fun over a year, we're just paying more.

Kabam stepping on the package.

Eakomo

when the question is being asked, that's when it's too much

GroundedWisdom

More to the point, it's a business. There's no such thing as too much. We can still play for free if we choose.
from a customer POV, the oversaturation of offers literally waters down the product and also makes us less excited for big deals since they're happening like every other month now. they're good and exciting in a sense and fund the game, but still.

end gamers might be paying $5000 a year for the same experience they had for $800 8 years ago. it's just not worth spending anymore since ranks reset every year anyway. why feel FOMO when you can just wait it out.
That's entirely up to you, and I'm sure other people feel that way as well. That doesn't mean they're going to stop marketing. Others will spend, and more power to them. It keeps the game going.
What a brain dead reply lol what's better 10 whales dropping 1k in an event or 10 whales + 100 low to mid end spenders also spending on said event because spending, even if just half of what whales spend, gets you good stuff too?which do you think would keep the game running for longer too? You're so dense you're not getting the point, this isn't even about f2p players mainly it's about the fact that even p2w players are getting sick of tKabam's greediness.
What's brain dead is taking it personally that they're introducing ways to make more money when that's been keeping the lights on for 10 and a half years.
Wouldn't the locial thing be making lower offers more appealing as well so low toid end spenders are also encouraged to spend instead of just whales? Think before you reply again please.

As for your ten years comment, I already told you, sales have been getting more expensive gradually not jumping from $400 to $600 in a span of three months, that's predatory and greedy indeed.
I'm sorry, are the only Offers available the $600 ones you're referring to? I'm quite positive the game offers a range of things for money. You're talking about things as if they're unilateral, and that's not the case.
I have no idea what you're talking about when you keep referencing $400 to $600, but there's nothing predatory about "We are offering X and it will cost Y.". Whether Y was $400, or $600 is irrelevant. That's what's being offered, and part of being an adult is making our own financial decisions. We either decide to buy it, or we don't.
Yes, but those lower offers were bad compared to what the whales received. They killed most of the incentive when they made Torch available for $600 instead of $400 like Red Guardian, that's being greedy.

I keep referencing the fact that Red Guardian was available for $400 while Torch went up to $600 for absolutely no reason other than pure greed. You don't even know what I'm referencing and you're arguing lol.

Correct, but wouldn't the smart thing be to try to get as many people to buy it by offering rewards that align more with what the big spenders are getting instead of creating a huge gap between whales and low to mid spenders? Of course whales will get more but the difference should not be this big, they're trying to use FOMO and high prices
as incentive when they really should be using the items inside the offers themselves as incentive. It's almost like you have no common sense whatsoever, truly baffling.
Why are you comparing J4 with Red Guardian? Not related at all. For that matter, there's no set amount. I'm not going to argue that you find it disincentivizing if that's how you feel. I can respect that. I just don't see the connection you're making. No one ever said spending the same amount would get Torch. Also, I believe you spent Units for Torch, not money.
They're both spending events with a chase champ? How do you not see how both have the exact same structure just a different event name?

I know, no one said explicitly that it would be exactly the same GW, what I'm trying to explain to you is that the increase in price for the chase champ and the mid rewards unless you went all in left a bad taste in the mouth of everyone on this thread, both spenders and non spenders, and the same sentiment is shared by people in other platforms it's not just forums. If you don't have an issue with it and you don't spend any money cool this isn't a problem for you and you can move on, but for some of us it is an issue because it's killing our desire to spend.

As for the Torch thing, no he is available for $600 as well in the webstore milestones. You're not even well informed on this matter yet you're over here arguing like you know everything, you clearly don't.

He's available in the Objectives, for which you get Points from spending Units in the Tiered Offers, in-game. Sure, he's in the webstore as well. That's not what I was referring to.

Searmenis

Oh man, every time I read this "have to keep the lights on" excuse, where are Kabam HQ, in an olympic stadium?

BringPopcorn

GW has a very valid point regarding the commercial part. They can monetize anything they want, at this point they can even monetize time if they wanted by converting it into a subscription based game. It wouldn't be crazy or the first time a company does this.
I own businesses and I do agree on some of his points. The only part that I don't agree is that they are not a retailer. We already know the product that they sell is not something that we own. They sell a service, a gaming enviroment and "tools" to play the game. The game has just become a constant medium for a sale instead of a game itself. I joked about the live streams being infomercials, well the game itself is now a constant infomercial. We are login in to find out what will be sold next instead of having much to play.

BigBlueOx

GW has a very valid point regarding the commercial part. They can monetize anything they want, at this point they can even monetize time if they wanted by converting it into a subscription based game. It wouldn't be crazy or the first time a company does this.
I own businesses and I do agree on some of his points. The only part that I don't agree is that they are not a retailer. We already know the product that they sell is not something that we own. They sell a service, a gaming enviroment and "tools" to play the game. The game has just become a constant medium for a sale instead of a game itself. I joked about the live streams being infomercials, well the game itself is now a constant infomercial. We are login in to find out what will be sold next instead of having much to play.

Yeah, but he’s also arguing against (in part) something nobody is saying, framing the “what is too much” perspective into people arguing against commercialization in general. Which not one person has asserted.

The questions remain; is this current aggressive trend a step too far? Are these events so frequent it’s draining and had the value been completely diluted?

BringPopcorn

GW has a very valid point regarding the commercial part. They can monetize anything they want, at this point they can even monetize time if they wanted by converting it into a subscription based game. It wouldn't be crazy or the first time a company does this.
I own businesses and I do agree on some of his points. The only part that I don't agree is that they are not a retailer. We already know the product that they sell is not something that we own. They sell a service, a gaming enviroment and "tools" to play the game. The game has just become a constant medium for a sale instead of a game itself. I joked about the live streams being infomercials, well the game itself is now a constant infomercial. We are login in to find out what will be sold next instead of having much to play.

Yeah, but he’s also arguing against (in part) something nobody is saying, framing the “what is too much” perspective into people arguing against commercialization in general. Which not one person has asserted.

The questions remain; is this current aggressive trend a step too far? Are these events so frequent it’s draining and had the value been completely diluted?

That's where I differ from his point of view though. A retailer has no limit to monetize things. He is selling you a product that you own at the end. I mean look at things in the real world. In California you have to pay for the paper bag at a fast food restaurant nowadays.
If Kabam was a retailer I would agree with GW and agree that is not too far.

GroundedWisdom

GW has a very valid point regarding the commercial part. They can monetize anything they want, at this point they can even monetize time if they wanted by converting it into a subscription based game. It wouldn't be crazy or the first time a company does this.
I own businesses and I do agree on some of his points. The only part that I don't agree is that they are not a retailer. We already know the product that they sell is not something that we own. They sell a service, a gaming enviroment and "tools" to play the game. The game has just become a constant medium for a sale instead of a game itself. I joked about the live streams being infomercials, well the game itself is now a constant infomercial. We are login in to find out what will be sold next instead of having much to play.

Yeah, but he’s also arguing against (in part) something nobody is saying, framing the “what is too much” perspective into people arguing against commercialization in general. Which not one person has asserted.

The questions remain; is this current aggressive trend a step too far? Are these events so frequent it’s draining and had the value been completely diluted?

That's literally the same point worded differently. There is no such thing as too far. I will agree that there have been a lot of spending events, and I also agree it would be nice to have something introduced that wasn't so spending-heavy, but what you're talking about is too much monetization, in whatever form. Monetizing less isn't going to solve the problems you're discussing. Having more events introduced that are enjoyment-oriented among the spending ones is. We're not in charge of how much they monetize. We can certainly pass on offers if we choose. No matter how you word it, you think they're monetizing too much, and I disagree. It's only too much if people think they need to hit every offer and event.

Eakomo

GW has a very valid point regarding the commercial part. They can monetize anything they want, at this point they can even monetize time if they wanted by converting it into a subscription based game. It wouldn't be crazy or the first time a company does this.
I own businesses and I do agree on some of his points. The only part that I don't agree is that they are not a retailer. We already know the product that they sell is not something that we own. They sell a service, a gaming enviroment and "tools" to play the game. The game has just become a constant medium for a sale instead of a game itself. I joked about the live streams being infomercials, well the game itself is now a constant infomercial. We are login in to find out what will be sold next instead of having much to play.

Yeah, but he’s also arguing against (in part) something nobody is saying, framing the “what is too much” perspective into people arguing against commercialization in general. Which not one person has asserted.

The questions remain; is this current aggressive trend a step too far? Are these events so frequent it’s draining and had the value been completely diluted?
That's literally the same point worded differently. There is no such thing as too far. I will agree that there have been a lot of spending events, and I also agree it would be nice to have something introduced that wasn't so spending-heavy, but what you're talking about is too much monetization, in whatever form. Monetizing less isn't going to solve the problems you're discussing. Having more events introduced that are enjoyment-oriented among the spending ones is. We're not in charge of how much they monetize. We can certainly pass on offers if we choose. No matter how you word it, you think they're monetizing too much, and I disagree. It's only too much if people think they need to hit every offer and event.

it is not too much because of getting every milestone, but how many, and how frequent they have become, and now also increasing the gaps in getting any meaningful milestone. why is the second milestone worth 3k units???

and to your first part. there is always going to be somewhere or sometime when there is excess that is above what should be expected. you're somehow trying to argue that increasing the cost while reducing the amount for the sale constantly isn't going to far in the past 2 years while the previous 8 didn't advance that quickly

BigBlueOx

GW has a very valid point regarding the commercial part. They can monetize anything they want, at this point they can even monetize time if they wanted by converting it into a subscription based game. It wouldn't be crazy or the first time a company does this.
I own businesses and I do agree on some of his points. The only part that I don't agree is that they are not a retailer. We already know the product that they sell is not something that we own. They sell a service, a gaming enviroment and "tools" to play the game. The game has just become a constant medium for a sale instead of a game itself. I joked about the live streams being infomercials, well the game itself is now a constant infomercial. We are login in to find out what will be sold next instead of having much to play.

Yeah, but he’s also arguing against (in part) something nobody is saying, framing the “what is too much” perspective into people arguing against commercialization in general. Which not one person has asserted.

The questions remain; is this current aggressive trend a step too far? Are these events so frequent it’s draining and had the value been completely diluted?
That's literally the same point worded differently. There is no such thing as too far. I will agree that there have been a lot of spending events, and I also agree it would be nice to have something introduced that wasn't so spending-heavy, but what you're talking about is too much monetization, in whatever form. Monetizing less isn't going to solve the problems you're discussing. Having more events introduced that are enjoyment-oriented among the spending ones is. We're not in charge of how much they monetize. We can certainly pass on offers if we choose. No matter how you word it, you think they're monetizing too much, and I disagree. It's only too much if people think they need to hit every offer and event.

These later responses on this thread are helpful. Exact Framing aside it sounds like we are closer than either of us will care to admit on a desired direction for the game right now.

Longshot_33

The best part is we get to do it all again with 8 stars in a couple years time.

Fit_Fun9329

The best part is we get to do it all again with 8 stars in a couple years time.

Progression is super fast. Couple years? My feeling is that 8* will come at least 2027. Half of 2025 is already gone

Searmenis

8 stars won t come before 2028, even with this fast pacing, we still have two levels to cover, pressumably 7* rank 5 will make its 1st appearance on Summoner s Brawl and start the catalyst selling game on banquet '25.
But ppl are tired of the vast monetization and chase of 7 stars, so I hope Kabam will find some other way to upgrade the champions we already have, instead of going the exact same direction (pools, basic pools, parapools, summer pools, paypools,...)

ItsClobberinTime

More to the point, it's a business. There's no such thing as too much. We can still play for free if we choose.
from a customer POV, the oversaturation of offers literally waters down the product and also makes us less excited for big deals since they're happening like every other month now. they're good and exciting in a sense and fund the game, but still.

end gamers might be paying $5000 a year for the same experience they had for $800 8 years ago. it's just not worth spending anymore since ranks reset every year anyway. why feel FOMO when you can just wait it out.
That's entirely up to you, and I'm sure other people feel that way as well. That doesn't mean they're going to stop marketing. Others will spend, and more power to them. It keeps the game going.
What a brain dead reply lol what's better 10 whales dropping 1k in an event or 10 whales + 100 low to mid end spenders also spending on said event because spending, even if just half of what whales spend, gets you good stuff too?which do you think would keep the game running for longer too? You're so dense you're not getting the point, this isn't even about f2p players mainly it's about the fact that even p2w players are getting sick of tKabam's greediness.
What's brain dead is taking it personally that they're introducing ways to make more money when that's been keeping the lights on for 10 and a half years.
Wouldn't the locial thing be making lower offers more appealing as well so low toid end spenders are also encouraged to spend instead of just whales? Think before you reply again please.

As for your ten years comment, I already told you, sales have been getting more expensive gradually not jumping from $400 to $600 in a span of three months, that's predatory and greedy indeed.
I'm sorry, are the only Offers available the $600 ones you're referring to? I'm quite positive the game offers a range of things for money. You're talking about things as if they're unilateral, and that's not the case.
I have no idea what you're talking about when you keep referencing $400 to $600, but there's nothing predatory about "We are offering X and it will cost Y.". Whether Y was $400, or $600 is irrelevant. That's what's being offered, and part of being an adult is making our own financial decisions. We either decide to buy it, or we don't.
Yes, but those lower offers were bad compared to what the whales received. They killed most of the incentive when they made Torch available for $600 instead of $400 like Red Guardian, that's being greedy.

I keep referencing the fact that Red Guardian was available for $400 while Torch went up to $600 for absolutely no reason other than pure greed. You don't even know what I'm referencing and you're arguing lol.

Correct, but wouldn't the smart thing be to try to get as many people to buy it by offering rewards that align more with what the big spenders are getting instead of creating a huge gap between whales and low to mid spenders? Of course whales will get more but the difference should not be this big, they're trying to use FOMO and high prices
as incentive when they really should be using the items inside the offers themselves as incentive. It's almost like you have no common sense whatsoever, truly baffling.
Why are you comparing J4 with Red Guardian? Not related at all. For that matter, there's no set amount. I'm not going to argue that you find it disincentivizing if that's how you feel. I can respect that. I just don't see the connection you're making. No one ever said spending the same amount would get Torch. Also, I believe you spent Units for Torch, not money.
They're both spending events with a chase champ? How do you not see how both have the exact same structure just a different event name?

I know, no one said explicitly that it would be exactly the same GW, what I'm trying to explain to you is that the increase in price for the chase champ and the mid rewards unless you went all in left a bad taste in the mouth of everyone on this thread, both spenders and non spenders, and the same sentiment is shared by people in other platforms it's not just forums. If you don't have an issue with it and you don't spend any money cool this isn't a problem for you and you can move on, but for some of us it is an issue because it's killing our desire to spend.

As for the Torch thing, no he is available for $600 as well in the webstore milestones. You're not even well informed on this matter yet you're over here arguing like you know everything, you clearly don't.
He's available in the Objectives, for which you get Points from spending Units in the Tiered Offers, in-game. Sure, he's in the webstore as well. That's not what I was referring to.

That's what this whole thread was about.

Daddrieda

7* is uniquely in term of rank up. It rank up all the way to rank 6