Yet another great video calling Kabam out on their defender BS

https://youtu.be/e8CrLpG0vKE?si=szc9FVwC_xcnFqf0

Comments

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2892062#Comment_2892062

Didn’t say poor anyone. I said it's inevitable that Defenders will need to be harder eventually. I've heard people complain about unavoidable damage many times over the years, and it's not that low of a design. How can you challenge people who can learn how to avoid everything? Extend Fights until 20-minute slogs?

The bottom line is people complain when Champs are too weak and they complain when they're too strong.

Herbal_Taxman

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2892082#Comment_2892082

Most of the folks on this thread are talking about the actual issues in the game. You are talking about the talking that’s happening in the forum. Why participate in a thread when you have nothing to offer than “that’s just the way it is.” Why bother saying that? The whole point of the discussion is that people aren’t satisfied with the ways things currently are and it can be gratifying to imagine something different.

ItsClobberinTime

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2892082#Comment_2892082

By adding even more mechanics that require skilled counterplay not by adding unavoidable damage with no counterplay. How is unavoidable damage even fair there is no challenge there at all you either have the counter or you don't.

Furthermore, the type of players you talk about who learn how to fight every defender with any champ at full hp aren't even 15% of the entire playerbase, the game shouldn't be balanced around them.

DNA3000

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2891967#Comment_2891967

As with all game design decisions, there has to be a balance between competing and often contradictory requirements, and no one agrees what the balance point should be. Yes, there has to be stuff beginners can’t just do or the game is trivial, but if there’s too much stuff they just can’t do you turn them off and they go play Candy Crush.

I don’t have all the answers there: I’m not sure I have any answers there. But I think where the answers lie is that the game can have easy stuff and the game can have hard stuff and the difference between an approachable game and an inaccessible one is the degree to which there are clear paths from one to the other. Nothing is going to please everyone, but the people you want in a game like this are the people willing to progress, willing to start small and work their way up. Those are the players who will stick with the game, grow with it, be engaged by it, converts to spenders and support it. But of course, if it was that easy we’d already be doing it.

We kinda see something like that with solo raids, but that’s a very simplified and also bespoke example. Where’s the on-ramp to AW? Where’s the on-ramp to BG? Are such things even possible?

Incidentally, long ago in another life I proposed what I will call here the DNA PvP conjecture. The DNA PvP conjecture is this: No established game ever successfully adds PvP. There are lots of reasons why, but it’s an observation I made back in my old MMO days. PvE games follow a certain design philosophy, and central to that philosophy is: the player should usually win. If you make a game where the player loses most of the time, you end up with a game almost no one wants to play. Moderating difficulty is one of the most important elements of game design. But in a PvP game, that’s almost irrelevant. All PvP games have the same win/loss ratio regardless of design: 50/50. PvP games are not about difficulty, they are about equity: fair and balanced game play. To put it another way, PvP games are about being fair, and PvE games are about being properly unfair. These are almost incompatible mindsets. You can reconcile this difference at the beginning of time. But once a game is established? Good luck: you’re fighting upstream not just on game design gravity, but also against your entire playerbase.

In my opinion Battlegrounds was a great addition to the game. I’m not a top tier competitor, and I still enjoy playing it - for some definition of “enjoy”. It also causes me to want to throw my phone at the moon at times, but that’s competitive play. But its mindset clashes with the mindset that rules almost every other part of the game. The mindset everywhere else is the PvE mindset: the game should present me with a challenge that is reasonable for my strength. Whereas the mindset in PvP is: die scum.

it is hard enough dealing with FOMO in the PvE game, when our playerbase is dominated by much more casual players with casual mindsets. That problem is exacerbated to the point of intractability when it comes to competitive modes, particularly Battlegrounds. I don’t have a solution to that one either, and not for lack of trying.

JESUSCHRIST

Nobody ever put themselves in the shoes of a game developer

If your monthly salary depends on selling champions and generating revenue for the company, would you not want to create a BS defender that will sell like hotcakes?

If you watch other MCOC similar games under Kabam like Transformers and Disney Mirrorverse shut down, would you not want to sell more champions by creating BS defenders and selling counters later on?

Matter of fact that everyone agree is that BS defenders sell ALL THE TIME, players want BS defenders in their decks, there is demand so there is supply

Look at Dracula, the moment Kabam release a weak champion, players go to forums talking about little damage and low regen

Dracula could have been easily built to be another BS champion but seems like Kabam held back from doing so

Players are talking about future titan pool not attractive bcos the last 8 champions released are not BS enough

Chosen85

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2891724#Comment_2891724

There are a few that comment A LOT that i've watched over time. Im convinced that they either work for Kabam directly or are paid contractors to be on forums for the sole purpose of responding favorably for kabam. I really believe that. The others aren't hard to figure out.

MakaveliThizzle

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2892100#Comment_2892100

@GroundedWisdom certainly is.

No person has been so generally dismissed, while constantly ignoring course correction by vast swaths of his own community.

No institution would have tolerated such for so long.

Yet, he plays victim. He makes multiple comments saying nothing for “payments-per-post.” And he constantly attempts to vaguely alert moderators to intervene. And they do, in Rigged Kabam Fashion.

ahmynuts

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2892098#Comment_2892098

Designers are in their right to create whatever the hell they want but it is (or should be) other people's JOB to actually playtest and balance champions and the game.

Your argument is really bad.

GroundedWisdom

No one is paid to comment for Kabam. It's not my fault people can't accept a different perspective. No one is playing the victim, you're making things personal. I could care less, honestly. Nothing you say hurts my feelings. It's just ruining conversations. Then you have the nerve to accuse ME of derailing them.

Stay on topic, agree or disagree without turning it into a character assassination, and things continue nicely. Don't blame me for your choice to be inappropriate.

Magicsol

Why can't you accept my clearly rage-baiting, pro kabam, obviously wrong opinion you filthy inappropriate pigs.

6* Torch = 7* Torch never forget🥀

-Victory Track Veteran

Vegetis

Some people just like to pretend to be knowledgeable or “enlightened” but actually lacks real understanding. Always using contrarian views to appear deep and derails all meaningful conversations. It’s just surface level rambling.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Those who are end game, highly skilled players like Volatility who this thread is about, generally understand the problem Kabam has created.

When top players, the biggest whales in the game and even new to MCOC players start to provide feedback that the game is going in the wrong direction, you would think Kabam would start to listen. They seem to only listen when the community pushes back hard on a decision that impacts their bottom line.

peixemacaco

Another cry from the jailed girl

Thanks Kabam 🥳 for all these nasty Defenders we love 😍

MakaveliThizzle

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2892125#Comment_2892125

Grounded, your knack for projecting is becoming legendary.

I will admit, I do not like you. One of the ancillary benefits of sneaking back on here was to hassle you.

Because, frankly, I do not like people who blindly side with power in matters of power dynamics, solely in hopes they'll become more powerful themselves one day. Unless, of course, it impacts them.

And the matter in which you inject yourself into almost every post that legitimately challenges Kabam's credibility and ethics, spreading confusion and misinformation along the way, that is not "perspective." It's not ground-breaking or edgy. It's dishonorable.

And when you are oblivious to this fact, as virtually the entire community is deeply concerned about the state of the game, only a few conclusions can be drawn as to why.

Look deep into your soul.

With grounded wisdom.

GroundedWisdom

You still can't take the focus off of me. This isn't my problem.

ItsClobberinTime

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2892301#Comment_2892301

They would if anything you said made sense

Buttehrs

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2892284#Comment_2892284

At least gounded isnt bending over backwards like this fish monkey.

the_eradicator

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2891903#Comment_2891903

If you don't want the smoke, then don't give an opinion when you don't know anything about that aspect of the game. Ofcourse everyone is entitled to an opinion..but once you give one that is soo ill-informed, be prepared for some backlash.

the_eradicator

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2892044#Comment_2892044

I don't think you are.
Every thread you go to..it becomes a GroundedWisdom vs everyone else thread . So just stop.
It becomes difficult for anyone else reading the thread.
And I think its high time to just ignore this guys comments, just like the pixie ones. I thought you had made a few amends but nah..

GroundedWisdom

That's not what this is. It's an intentional attempt to make it a personal attack on me. It isn't the first time on these Forums. I've moved on in the discussion and it's still being directed that way. They'll continue until the Thread gets shut down, then they'll blame me. It's asinine.

The bottom line is you can't have it both ways. You can't complain about how mid and trash Champs are all the time, and still complain when they add some powerful ones. They need some roadblocks in the game, or it gets stale. Fast.

the_eradicator

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2892445#Comment_2892445

I was not trying to support you btw 😂
But there is some truth..only in this last statement you made.
Kabam makes BS defenders and then sells them and they seem to sell well. Only problem is that these BS defenders more often seem to break few boundries..like removing masteries. Giving them a new ability that can only be countered with an upcoming champ.
For the really competitive players who are skilled at the game..they don't really enjoy this kind of design..thats it. Cos there always should be a way to counter these defenders without the intended counter.
But if you look at the way BG works now, you get a Random draft, and if you don't get your counter..well then goodluck you are dead.
This is just not fun.
You say you are a casual who only likes collecting…I really want you to think a bit deeper and understand why all these other guys are more frustrated than you are. Maybe cos you are not really bothering to face champs like these on a daily basis ?
There is Wisdom in your name so i am hoping there is still some left deep down.

startropics

i see GW's almost finished cleaning this thread

GroundedWisdom

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2892449#Comment_2892449

I never said anything about casual or not. That was something other people threw out there. Of course I enjoy collecting. I'd say the majority of Players do. I'm not playing a different game, so I don't know why you think I don't understand what they're saying and why they're frustrated. I don't agree with the idea that it's somehow unfair. That's the fundamental difference.

Champs and Nodes have been interacting with Masteries for a long time. That's not new. Having the right counter is also not new, and it's part of the game. It's impossible to design a competitive game mode in this game without restrictions of some kind. So no, I don't expect to go into BGs and counter any Champ with whatever I bring. Having the right counter is part of it.

Even Serpent has a counter. No Champ in the game can't be countered by something or some other Champ. It's also worth noting that the game doesn't just consist of BGs.

There's a difference between having a problem with something personally and calling it a design flaw. I'm not at the point where I believe it's a detriment, yet. I was curious what DNA3000's thoughts were, but I'm still on the fence. That doesn't mean I'm not annoyed by things. I'm a bit tired of fighting the same Champs in War myself. It's boring. I'm just not calling Kabam out for being unfair for having strong defenders, because I know it is inevitably necessary.

Sorry, but in order to keep a game like this going and add adequate challenge, you're eventually going to add things that people call BS.

Cdub5071

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2891791#Comment_2891791

but the one champ great on Offense, Spiderwoman, they nerf because to many good defenders coming out to fast LOL. You just cannot make that stuff up.