Alliance Quest Miniboss and Sentinel Refresh - April 2018 - Discussion Thread [Updated April 13]

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  • Honestly its a miracle that all of us are still playing at all. Mostly majority of the community hates sentinels least i do. My problem is that its not about fighting them, but rather the broken game mechanics like blocking, parrying, dodging, and of course lag lots of lag where you tend to move, but it stops and you get hit. Mostly I hate my alliance because they tend to criticize you because if you can't dodge or block you well die. Rather wish kabam stops putting new content and actually spend majority of their time fixing all the game issues. He'll rerun old quests until the bugs are worked out and i would say blocking is off by a few milliseconds.
  • TonedefTonedef Posts: 137
    Another one bites the dust! That makes 4 of the top preforming players in my Alliance that have left. Netmarble Inc. is the company that owns Kabam. They are the ones we really ought to be salty towards..
    @Deadpool1119
    Blocking is fine imo, it’s just that different opponents and AI difficulties seem to have quicker attacks or attacks that register BEFORE their animation. So even if you have the best reflexes in the world(under 100 milliseconds) you’re still gonna be getting hit.
  • e9tdqlumdimp.jpeg


    This is the feeling among the officers
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,599 Guardian
    Tonedef wrote: »
    Another one bites the dust! That makes 4 of the top preforming players in my Alliance that have left. Netmarble Inc. is the company that owns Kabam. They are the ones we really ought to be salty towards..
    @Deadpool1119
    Blocking is fine imo, it’s just that different opponents and AI difficulties seem to have quicker attacks or attacks that register BEFORE their animation. So even if you have the best reflexes in the world(under 100 milliseconds) you’re still gonna be getting hit.

    In every case where I was either significantly damaged by or straight up killed by a Sentinel, the Sentinel actually intercepted me. It might just be bad luck, or it might be that I'm doing something that just happens to increase the probability of the Sentinel AI doing that, but if the computer AI decides to intercept you there is essentially nothing you can do. You're already committed to the attack, and no human being's reaction times are fast enough to consistently avoid an intercept once it starts even if you weren't already committed to the attack.

    I'm not saying the Sentinels are explicitly programmed to do that and clearly some players aren't having any problems at all. I am saying it is possible for a player to find themselves in an unrecoverable situation that isn't the product of making an explicit mistake, but might be something subtle about the way they play that puts them in a position that's difficult to simply change tactics to avoid. I don't know why I'm finding myself seeing this, but whatever it is it must be something my reflexes have learned works elsewhere and I'm not sure what it is to break it. Interestingly, it doesn't come up in duel practice so far. I've only seen it in AQ.
  • HosemaniaHosemania Posts: 16
    The problem is really due to how long aq is and the cost. Gold shortage, t1a shortage, T2a shortage is taking a toll on the player community. So many people are just leaving the game since the event interferes with real life. People have work or an after life and to wait an hour to move is just ridiculous. This should have been addressed a long time ago and it’s not even in consideration. I see so many alliances without a full roster and this is the cause and effect that aq is having.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,894 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Tonedef wrote: »
    Another one bites the dust! That makes 4 of the top preforming players in my Alliance that have left. Netmarble Inc. is the company that owns Kabam. They are the ones we really ought to be salty towards..
    @Deadpool1119
    Blocking is fine imo, it’s just that different opponents and AI difficulties seem to have quicker attacks or attacks that register BEFORE their animation. So even if you have the best reflexes in the world(under 100 milliseconds) you’re still gonna be getting hit.

    In every case where I was either significantly damaged by or straight up killed by a Sentinel, the Sentinel actually intercepted me. It might just be bad luck, or it might be that I'm doing something that just happens to increase the probability of the Sentinel AI doing that, but if the computer AI decides to intercept you there is essentially nothing you can do. You're already committed to the attack, and no human being's reaction times are fast enough to consistently avoid an intercept once it starts even if you weren't already committed to the attack.

    I'm not saying the Sentinels are explicitly programmed to do that and clearly some players aren't having any problems at all. I am saying it is possible for a player to find themselves in an unrecoverable situation that isn't the product of making an explicit mistake, but might be something subtle about the way they play that puts them in a position that's difficult to simply change tactics to avoid. I don't know why I'm finding myself seeing this, but whatever it is it must be something my reflexes have learned works elsewhere and I'm not sure what it is to break it. Interestingly, it doesn't come up in duel practice so far. I've only seen it in AQ.

    It’s the stance they have. A lot of the time when I get intercepted by them it’s when they stand there without blocking and just dare you to attack. When I dash they hit me. I’m not sure if that’s what you’ve been seeing too but it’s my experience. I saw it with the cosmic symbioid too but only that one, with the sentinels I’ve seen it with all classes, just a subtle difference in the Ai.
  • I think the concept of the Sentineloids is an interesting one. It makes the generic enemies in quest more relevant to the comics, and those characters and stories are what brought many of us here.

    I think making them a *little* more difficult was a fair change, but the degree of difficulty change is extreme. Immunities, unblockable specials, mystics with MD5 level power gain or skills instantly shrugging any debuff - to say this doesn't represent a dramatic increase in difficulty is grossly inaccurate and feels disingenuous.

    To say they "only require a different strategy" is like saying a stun immune character isn't more difficult, it only requires a different strategy. If a player is forced to use a more challenging strategy to defeat an opponent, that opponent is, by definition, more difficult.

    Furthermore, the intent to make AQ more challenging is made even more obvious by the switch to more difficult minibosses. To deny this is insulting to the player base at large.
  • TonedefTonedef Posts: 137
    Just did some simple math. Path 1 has 12 Sentinels, 13 regular champs. Path 8 has 12 and 14. I use to love symbioids for the simple fact that I could usually regen a half dead wolverine back to full health in just one fight. I remember a map 5, day 4, path 7 run where I used him exclusively from start to Dormy. 0 pots used. That is very nearly impossible to do now, at least for a guy with my level of skill. Evading those S2 rockets is a nightmare.
    de90e3ju0qub.jpeg
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,599 Guardian
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Tonedef wrote: »
    Another one bites the dust! That makes 4 of the top preforming players in my Alliance that have left. Netmarble Inc. is the company that owns Kabam. They are the ones we really ought to be salty towards..
    @Deadpool1119
    Blocking is fine imo, it’s just that different opponents and AI difficulties seem to have quicker attacks or attacks that register BEFORE their animation. So even if you have the best reflexes in the world(under 100 milliseconds) you’re still gonna be getting hit.

    In every case where I was either significantly damaged by or straight up killed by a Sentinel, the Sentinel actually intercepted me. It might just be bad luck, or it might be that I'm doing something that just happens to increase the probability of the Sentinel AI doing that, but if the computer AI decides to intercept you there is essentially nothing you can do. You're already committed to the attack, and no human being's reaction times are fast enough to consistently avoid an intercept once it starts even if you weren't already committed to the attack.

    I'm not saying the Sentinels are explicitly programmed to do that and clearly some players aren't having any problems at all. I am saying it is possible for a player to find themselves in an unrecoverable situation that isn't the product of making an explicit mistake, but might be something subtle about the way they play that puts them in a position that's difficult to simply change tactics to avoid. I don't know why I'm finding myself seeing this, but whatever it is it must be something my reflexes have learned works elsewhere and I'm not sure what it is to break it. Interestingly, it doesn't come up in duel practice so far. I've only seen it in AQ.

    It’s the stance they have. A lot of the time when I get intercepted by them it’s when they stand there without blocking and just dare you to attack. When I dash they hit me. I’m not sure if that’s what you’ve been seeing too but it’s my experience. I saw it with the cosmic symbioid too but only that one, with the sentinels I’ve seen it with all classes, just a subtle difference in the Ai.

    In general, yes that's what I'm seeing but the question for me is why I'm noticing it with Sentinels. After all, that's technically the very definition of an intercept, albeit usually from the player side. I think it might have something to do with the fact that when they hold block if you don't attack them their AI more aggressively tries to corner you than the Syms they replace, or maybe it is simply that they are more numerically dangerous so you're compelled to be more aggressive. I was doing more practice duels today and I cannot be certain but the normal duel AI seems more willing to use SP1, which is then easier to bait and counter attack. But its hard to say and I don't record all my AQ fights to review them except from memory.

    I can say it is a little weird that I can defeat an 8k Sentinel that has its SP3 with a 3* attacker in duels easier than I seem able to defeat 8k-11k Sentinels that don't have SP3 with a 5* attacker in AQ. I'm fully aware of the various technical differences that make that not a totally fair comparison, but I mention it more to illustrate that even the advice to practice to get better isn't entirely helpful in the short term.
  • MidnightfoxMidnightfox Posts: 387 ★★
    Hey Mods are we going to get any updates or should I just walk away now?
  • Guy_NoirGuy_Noir Posts: 28
    I have no trouble with sentinels when I bring my A team. 5/65 Blade cuts through them just fine. But on days when I need my B team it's been a little iffy. Had to use a few stash items for the first time in ages in aq. Whatever, no big deal. I've seen lots of people struggle though and it doesn't make sense given what they say the change is for. Don't think the sentinels make it more interesting. They definitely make it harder. Map 6 may actually be easier than map 5 now which makes no sense. I'm fine with AQ being harder. Let's get the new season going, make it harder and buff the rewards. Otherwise I think the community will take boring over harder to no purpose.
  • RockonRockon Posts: 250
    a ton of people are not interested in the ranking up champs with the method of going through alliance quest since this update. my alliance was doing map 5 every day and clearing it and most people complain and stop playing. supporting the game is nice and all but when the progression method is very very slow. it took over a year to get a good dupe to move forward farther into the game. 1 year.... 1... year....
  • Anyone tried a 5* Ironman or SIM on the sentinels yet? How was it? Considering them since they both have armorbreaks
  • Stagedear85Stagedear85 Posts: 403 ★★
    edited April 2018
    Kabbam clearly don't care what we think or how newer and older players are affected by this, how you add such a thing and not try and fix the blocking and parry bugs first and when someone did post a video of what was affecting them Kabbam got defensive, so far i had 3 players quit my alliance because they've came to the realization that kabbam only cares about their pockets and as long as people will keep playing and be ok with nonsense then they will keep feeding us nonsense. this is what kabbam said about the video "Thank you for this video. We didn't need "proof" as we have been looking into this already. Unfortunately, this video doesn't actually give us much information."
    Look under Losing control of champs .
  • KeonexKeonex Posts: 77
    When Map 6 becomes easier than MAP 5, is the moment Kabam goes $$$$$$$ yay. Goal made, somebody deserves a bonus
  • BadroseBadrose Posts: 595 ★★★
    I also believe nothing will happen. 12.0 got all the whales crying and they all got together. The youtubers got onto it and demanded change and compensation.. This time around no one of any influence.. The whales, BG, seatin or DD have even cast a glance at it and dont even answer questions on their thoughts when they are live streaming. Kabam have won this one I'm afraid. The whales will be milked. Seatin will rejoin the content programme and we will all be put in our 'rightful place'.

    Stop following unskilled whales, you have nothing to learn from Voldemort
  • ChimpyboyChimpyboy Posts: 50
    Members of my alliance (Ranked in Gold 2) were already worn out from the war season - the added pressure to finish lanes without dying put a lot of strain on many in our group. 4 had already announced they were leaving the game at the end of the season - so we need to replace them in addition to a few we need to kick for misc. reasons. This AQ "improvement" has put an even greater strain on the group. We finished 5x5 but needed a lot of items to do it. Many were KO'd or on fumes by end of section 2 on days 3,4,5.

    The amt of grinding those players will have to do in order to not only keep up in AQ, but be prepared for war season #2 is, IMO, not sustainable by the majority of the group - not when the average glory spend per player for a week of AQ is nearly the exact same amt of glory we're getting from the rewards/milestones.

    I thought I could be done ranking up 4*s, and move on to building my 5* roster - now I find myself benching x23 and grinding out Medusa in arena...and now looking to spend the last of my t4 basics to take her up to 5/50. I didn't really want to do that...but it took me 2yrs to get a 4* wolverine - so I figure I have to...b/c I'm sure it will be another 2 yrs before the crystal gods grant me a decent 5*.

    Having so much fun!!!!
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,599 Guardian
    My alliance is a 15 million rated alliance we have been doing map 5x5 for past year 100% every time. You added Sentinels and all of a sudden we struggled to get through the first section without using pots and day 4 had a BG not finish. We also have had 4 people quit the game and 5 more waiting until the end of our war we are in to finish. But no you didn’t make it harder. You just killed Wolverine because he heals too much and you don’t get enough people buying alliance pots. Be honest @Kabam Miike this is a way to increase difficulty. I know there are counters. But symbiods don’t need counters. There for you did increase the difficulty and you know you did. Get rid of the stupid sentinels. They are annoying as hell. I did the halls of healing everyday and stocked up knowing it was going to be rough. I maybe use 1-3 pots on day 4 and 5. I use all 15 pots day 2 and 3. Only fights I lost on were sentinels that can hit me even when I’m blocking and all there many other annoying abilities.

    @Stephen_Lynch you can still use wolverine and regen against them you know?

    They hardly have any health it’s a simple fight.

    I’m so mind blown by all the outrage

    Its now an observable fact that the combined changes to AQ have made it a huge quantum leap harder for a large percentage of the players. Precisely why it is happening is debatable, but that it is in fact a huge difficulty jump is no longer debatable. The question now is what to do about it. If you don't understand how it could be more difficult, that's simply a fundamental limitation of your ability to engage in the details of the situation.

    I'm saying this as someone whose alliance materially benefitted from the change. We jumped over 200 places in AQ standing last week even though we scored fewer points. That doesn't impact my ability to see that the change would have a large negative impact on players as a whole. And as Kabam's official position was and still amazingly is that there was no intent to increase difficulty beyond novelty, it is entirely understandable that players would be upset about a change that clearly went completely overboard what it was described to do.

    If the devs say a change will do X, and it actually does something completely different than X, and that change materially harms the playing experience of a large percentage of the players, and the devs refuse to even acknowledge this is actually happening I would expect those players to react strongly negatively. I don't see how anyone's mind could be blown by the obvious and predictable. It is doubly annoying when the devs were so obviously wrong it is difficult to invent an excuse that allows for that level of wrong to happen by accident.
  • Blitzkilla420Blitzkilla420 Posts: 561 ★★★
    @Kabam Miike im curious to know if you are gonna do something about aq soon? as much as we all love the game this just isnt fair to us to increase obvious difficulty without increasing rewards. if you guys werent at a time and place to up rewards then why release something thats unfinished?

    you cant drive a car without gas in it. so why change aq without changing the rewards?
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