Guillotine’s signature ability

Guillotine would be much more fun if her soul count didn’t expire. Currently, the soul count does nothing in difficult/ fun fights because they expire faster than you can chop away health to build the count. And any fight where the count actually builds up, its too easy to really matter. Basically, the count is pointless in fights that matter. Being that she rarely actually regens, I don’t think it would make her OP in any way to actually let her maintain the soul count. I think it would just make the whole dynamic more fun and not so pointless.

Comments

MordridCowl_1979

Her chance to health steal, not regen, is flat 10% per 4 souls. 8 souls should be 20%. If they didn't expire; at 40 souls that's 100% chance to life steal.

Ain't gonna happen.

GroundedWisdom

Actually, it's a flat 10%. What increases is the amount of Health she can Steal.

Magrailothos

Sorry @GroundedWisdom, but @MordridCowl_1979 is absolutely right on this one:

Souls increase the chances that she will steal health.

Her Sig level increases the amount of health that she steals.

It's very clear from gameplay that her health steal happens more often at high soul counts.

I agree with @Dbryant3 though; that the fact she is dependent on doing a percentage of health damage makes her souls disappear too fast to be useful when fighting very powerful champions in LOL, for example. Her Morningstar synergy helps a little, if you have both; and room on your roster.

GroundedWisdom

I've been using her a long time. The wording is confusing, but it's a flat 10%. She Steals x amount for every 4 Souls with a minimum of x amount no matter the Soul count.

Gwendoline

Grounded is completely right on this.

Gwendoline

In aq, even on day 5, my Guilly regens up to 100% all the time. Back in the day I regened against map 3 miniboss Groot after having timed out (and thus 50% health loss) while unable to keep the soul count up. Ending the fight with 70-80% life and using those fights "that don't matter" to fully regen.

I think her souls are good the way they work right now. Although I wouldn't mind if they expired after 30 seconds, instead of 20.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Magrailothos

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

I've been using her a long time. The wording is confusing, but it's a flat 10%. She Steals x amount for every 4 Souls with a minimum of x amount no matter the Soul count.

We've all been using her a long time.

You could try following your own usual advice about providing evidence next time. Rewording the (awful) description in her champion bio doesn't really qualify.

Since I'm not so egocentric that I can't entertain my own fallibility , I've gone ahead and done it myself, against WS in RoL. You are right in that even when her souls are exhausted, Guilly does still steal health; sufficiently often that a flat 10% seems accurate.

I'm still sceptical that her health steal (as a percentage of damage inflicted) genuinely increases with her soul count. I'd like to believe you, but given how appallingly badly her Sig is worded, it's hard to accept it as some kind of statement of fact. I've had her at a dozen souls many times and not noticed her health steal being increased; but then it's hard to watch both sides of the screen with that level of accuracy simultaneously.

Can you or @Gwendoline (or anyone else) actually provide any evidence that her healing genuinely increases at higher counts?

GroundedWisdom

I have her at Sig 99, 4*. It's 50% for every 4 Souls, minimum 50%. At 12 Souls, it would be 150% inflicted.

GroundedWisdom

Keep in mind, at 10%, it's all RNG-based and it would most likely require recording to replicate and analyze sufficiently.

Magrailothos

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Keep in mind, at 10%, it's all RNG-based and it would most likely require recording to replicate and analyze sufficiently.

No, no. I'm with you on the 10% frequency of health steal now. A quick experiment fighting WS convinced me you were right, and she can still steal health without souls; which is good and gives her more value against more powerful opponents.

However I can't (or at least don't know how to) record video on my phone; and without going frame-by-frame it's really hard to compare her damage inflicted with life stolen. I'd love to believe she can steal 100% (or even more) of the damage dealt at high soul counts. I'm just somewhat sceptical, given the dreadful Signdescription and the fact that it's not completely unknown for abilities to fail to work as intended.

How convinced are you that the ramp up from additional souls actually happens?

Gwendoline

Magrailothos wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

I've been using her a long time. The wording is confusing, but it's a flat 10%. She Steals x amount for every 4 Souls with a minimum of x amount no matter the Soul count.

We've all been using her a long time.

You could try following your own usual advice about providing evidence next time. Rewording the (awful) description in her champion bio doesn't really qualify.

Since I'm not so egocentric that I can't entertain my own fallibility , I've gone ahead and done it myself, against WS in RoL. You are right in that even when her souls are exhausted, Guilly does still steal health; sufficiently often that a flat 10% seems accurate.

I'm still sceptical that her health steal (as a percentage of damage inflicted) genuinely increases with her soul count. I'd like to believe you, but given how appallingly badly her Sig is worded, it's hard to accept it as some kind of statement of fact. I've had her at a dozen souls many times and not noticed her health steal being increased; but then it's hard to watch both sides of the screen with that level of accuracy simultaneously.

Can you or @Gwendoline (or anyone else) actually provide any evidence that her healing genuinely increases at higher counts?

Yes, I can. I will record the fights I do with her and analyse them during the sunday/monday crystal splash arena.

Gwendoline

Magrailothos wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Keep in mind, at 10%, it's all RNG-based and it would most likely require recording to replicate and analyze sufficiently.

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Keep in mind, at 10%, it's all RNG-based and it would most likely require recording to replicate and analyze sufficiently.

No, no. I'm with you on the 10% frequency of health steal now. A quick experiment fighting WS convinced me you were right, and she can still steal health without souls; which is good and gives her more value against more powerful opponents.

However I can't (or at least don't know how to) record video on my phone; and without going frame-by-frame it's really hard to compare her damage inflicted with life stolen. I'd love to believe she can steal 100% (or even more) of the damage dealt at high soul counts. I'm just somewhat sceptical, given the dreadful Signdescription and the fact that it's not completely unknown for abilities to fail to work as intended.

How convinced are you that the ramp up from additional souls actually happens?

If that's all you want to know I can get you a screenshot tonight. I know I've recorded a fight where she stole more then 2k health and did no where near that damage.

Mitchell35

I have an idea. Guillotine is Kabams prized champ, right? So how about they rework her to make her god tier. Nerf the dupe down to like 2%, maybe a little bit of base damage too, then make her souls never expire..... then bam 💥! God tier. Kabam puts an offer out for her, makes a bunch of money, and she’s still not as OP as blade.

Then she has the stacking damage, and the heal reversal utility.

Wow. That’s actually a better idea than I thought it would be.... Thoughts?

Magrailothos

Gwendoline wrote: »

Magrailothos wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Keep in mind, at 10%, it's all RNG-based and it would most likely require recording to replicate and analyze sufficiently.

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Keep in mind, at 10%, it's all RNG-based and it would most likely require recording to replicate and analyze sufficiently.

No, no. I'm with you on the 10% frequency of health steal now. A quick experiment fighting WS convinced me you were right, and she can still steal health without souls; which is good and gives her more value against more powerful opponents.

However I can't (or at least don't know how to) record video on my phone; and without going frame-by-frame it's really hard to compare her damage inflicted with life stolen. I'd love to believe she can steal 100% (or even more) of the damage dealt at high soul counts. I'm just somewhat sceptical, given the dreadful Sig description and the fact that it's not completely unknown for abilities to fail to work as intended.

How convinced are you that the ramp up from additional souls actually happens?

If that's all you want to know I can get you a screenshot tonight. I know I've recorded a fight where she stole more then 2k health and did no where near that damage.

You don't need to post anything, @Gwendoline. I'm not trying to be difficult - I'm happy to accept your word if you've observed that. It's just (apart from having had my concept of the signature ability reversed by you and @GroundedWisdom) it's very hard to see if you're not recording; as the regeneration and damage area pretty nearly simultaneously on opposite sides of the screen, whilst you're trying to actually win a fight. I quested for quite a while with 4*Sig60 Guilly (who I like), and although I registered the healing happening, it never seemed to be above about 40%.

So, to quote South Park: I've really learned something today...

Gwendoline

Magrailothos wrote: »

Gwendoline wrote: »

Magrailothos wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Keep in mind, at 10%, it's all RNG-based and it would most likely require recording to replicate and analyze sufficiently.

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Keep in mind, at 10%, it's all RNG-based and it would most likely require recording to replicate and analyze sufficiently.

No, no. I'm with you on the 10% frequency of health steal now. A quick experiment fighting WS convinced me you were right, and she can still steal health without souls; which is good and gives her more value against more powerful opponents.

However I can't (or at least don't know how to) record video on my phone; and without going frame-by-frame it's really hard to compare her damage inflicted with life stolen. I'd love to believe she can steal 100% (or even more) of the damage dealt at high soul counts. I'm just somewhat sceptical, given the dreadful Sig description and the fact that it's not completely unknown for abilities to fail to work as intended.

How convinced are you that the ramp up from additional souls actually happens?

If that's all you want to know I can get you a screenshot tonight. I know I've recorded a fight where she stole more then 2k health and did no where near that damage.

You don't need to post anything, @Gwendoline. I'm not trying to be difficult - I'm happy to accept your word if you've observed that. It's just (apart from having had my concept of the signature ability reversed by you and @GroundedWisdom) it's very hard to see if you're not recording; as the regeneration and damage area pretty nearly simultaneously on opposite sides of the screen, whilst you're trying to actually win a fight. I quested for quite a while with 4*Sig60 Guilly (who I like), and although I registered the healing happening, it never seemed to be above about 40%.

So, to quote South Park: I've really learned something today...

It’s actually an interesting thing to dive into. Because she does steal tons of health here and there, but not all the time and I’ve lways understood it as a chance to steal “up to” 50% per 4 souls. She clearly doesn’t steal 100% of her damage when she has 8 souls, but she does sometimes. I wonder if it’s like SL his sig and she steals up to 75% when she has 6 souls.

Enough of my ramblings, I’ll dive into this and analyse it when I find time, but for now I’d like to add this:

I clearly steal more health then I do damage

Edit: my calculator lets me know I steal 160% health, but my soul count tells me I should steal 50% for every 4 souls, thus only 150%. (See, interesting)

Magrailothos

Cool. Do you have Recovery? Could explain the extra bit of health gained.

Alternately, it may be that you actually gain +12.5% life steal per soul, rather than 50% per 'complete' four souls.

Jh_Dez

Maybe a cap on the amount of souls like red hulk having a cap of 10 heat charges.
She could have a cap of 20-15

Gwendoline

Magrailothos wrote: »

Cool. Do you have Recovery? Could explain the extra bit of health gained.

Alternately, it may be that you actually gain +12.5% life steal per soul, rather than 50% per 'complete' four souls.

Yes, 3 points in it. So it should have gotten me 3376 health, but it didnt. Removing the extra 15% makes 2740. Which is 140% of the damage I did. So I seem to steal 10% to little.

It would be interesting to analyse it, but I’d probably have to remove recovery to get a clear picture.

CapWW2

Gwendoline wrote: »

In aq, even on day 5, my Guilly regens up to 100% all the time. Back in the day I regened against map 3 miniboss Groot after having timed out (and thus 50% health loss) while unable to keep the soul count up. Ending the fight with 70-80% life and using those fights "that don't matter" to fully regen.

I think her souls are good the way they work right now. Although I wouldn't mind if they expired after 30 seconds, instead of 20.

You sir have no idea what you are talking about. Souls expire every 10 seconds. She needs an adjustment.

Gwendoline

CapWW2 wrote: »

Gwendoline wrote: »

In aq, even on day 5, my Guilly regens up to 100% all the time. Back in the day I regened against map 3 miniboss Groot after having timed out (and thus 50% health loss) while unable to keep the soul count up. Ending the fight with 70-80% life and using those fights "that don't matter" to fully regen.

I think her souls are good the way they work right now. Although I wouldn't mind if they expired after 30 seconds, instead of 20.

You sir have no idea what you are talking about. Souls expire every 10 seconds. She needs an adjustment.

Don't call me sir.

CapWW2

Gwendoline wrote: »

CapWW2 wrote: »

Gwendoline wrote: »

In aq, even on day 5, my Guilly regens up to 100% all the time. Back in the day I regened against map 3 miniboss Groot after having timed out (and thus 50% health loss) while unable to keep the soul count up. Ending the fight with 70-80% life and using those fights "that don't matter" to fully regen.

I think her souls are good the way they work right now. Although I wouldn't mind if they expired after 30 seconds, instead of 20.

You sir have no idea what you are talking about. Souls expire every 10 seconds. She needs an adjustment.

Don't call me sir.

Ok I will say it again: please read her signature. You are confused and spreading a lie. Guillotine souls expire in 10 seconds. Inform yourself and know what you are saying before you make a statement. Thank you!!!!

Gwendoline

CapWW2 wrote: »

Gwendoline wrote: »

CapWW2 wrote: »

Gwendoline wrote: »

In aq, even on day 5, my Guilly regens up to 100% all the time. Back in the day I regened against map 3 miniboss Groot after having timed out (and thus 50% health loss) while unable to keep the soul count up. Ending the fight with 70-80% life and using those fights "that don't matter" to fully regen.

I think her souls are good the way they work right now. Although I wouldn't mind if they expired after 30 seconds, instead of 20.

You sir have no idea what you are talking about. Souls expire every 10 seconds. She needs an adjustment.

Don't call me sir.

Ok I will say it again: please read her signature. You are confused and spreading a lie. Guillotine souls expire in 10 seconds. Inform yourself and know what you are saying before you make a statement. Thank you!!!!

Yes, you're right. I count 20 seconds because I count per 2 souls, because that's what you need for the phantasm. I obviously should have clarified myself. I would like to see a 15 second expiring (so 30 seconds for 2) to make it easier to reverse healing in hard fights. This is the only thing I feel she might need a tune.

However, in aq on day 5 I collect souls when fighting miniboss and when fighting the normal fights. I regen more life then I lose due to block damage, suicides and getting hit. I see no need to do anything to up her healing abilities and making her souls last longer does that. A possibly solution could be that the phantasm only needs 1 souls instead of 2.

Strategic

MordridCowl_1979 wrote: »

Her chance to health steal, not regen, is flat 10% per 4 souls. 8 souls should be 20%. If they didn't expire; at 40 souls that's 100% chance to life steal.

Ain't gonna happen.

It's 10% always. The stolen amount is based on souls.
But she rarely actually regens at all. Triggers maybe once or twice per fight and sometimes not at all.

Dexman1349

The other thing to keep in mind about her soul count is that her SP3 damage is based on the number of souls you have. Each soul inflicts damage equal to 2% of the opponents health instead of a flat amount. So if you have 10 souls, then you will remove 20% health regardless of the opponent.

If her souls didn't expire or lasted longer, then it would increase the amount of damage she could inflict in harder content like Act 5.

Gwendoline

Dexman1349 wrote: »

The other thing to keep in mind about her soul count is that her SP3 damage is based on the number of souls you have. Each soul inflicts damage equal to 2% of the opponents health instead of a flat amount. So if you have 10 souls, then you will remove 20% health regardless of the opponent.

If her souls didn't expire or lasted longer, then it would increase the amount of damage she could inflict in harder content like Act 5.

Do you think she should be able to do that or shouldn't?

Rakot_UofC

Gwendoline wrote: »

Magrailothos wrote: »

Cool. Do you have Recovery? Could explain the extra bit of health gained.

Alternately, it may be that you actually gain +12.5% life steal per soul, rather than 50% per 'complete' four souls.

Yes, 3 points in it. So it should have gotten me 3376 health, but it didnt. Removing the extra 15% makes 2740. Which is 140% of the damage I did. So I seem to steal 10% to little.

It would be interesting to analyse it, but I’d probably have to remove recovery to get a clear picture.

I think the reason you steal more than you expected initially is because of Recovery mastery, as you figured out. However you're also poisoned from Liquid Courage, which reduced Healing effects, so you end up with a bit less