v18.1 Discussion Thread

Kabam Miike · 2018-05-30T17:55:49+00:00

<span style="color:darkorange">Summoners!<br/><br/> Version 18.1 is scheduled for release on Monday, June 4th! <a href="http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/419373/#Comment_419373" rel="nofollow">Head over to our change log to find out what is coming your way!</a></span>

Kabam Miike

Summoners!

Version 18.1 is scheduled for release on Monday, June 4th! Head over to our change log to find out what is coming your way!

Comments

DNA3000

RehctansBew wrote: »

@DNA3000 Actually Kabam Miike has stated that ranked down tickets are for character changes.

Yes he did. But he did not say that changes to champions actually justify rank down tickets. If he said that compensation packages were used to address unscheduled downtime, that would not mean all unscheduled downtime justifies compensation packages. The purpose of something and the threshold for justifying their use are two different things.

That statement doesn't contradict other statements made elsewhere that stated that rank down tickets would not be issued simply because a champion has changed, and that they were initially and continue to be a special case thing only, and likely rarely if ever given out.

RagamugginGunner

Can we get more info on the side missions? This sounds way too much like the valor missions that randomly started for your alliance. I really hope this isn't the case as those were awful.

Ricardobalto

Hopefully there can be a RED DEADPOOL offer for 3* with an access to 4* red Deadpool arena.

Hulk_77

Rank down tickets for AA please. Make it champion specific.

GroundedWisdom

I have doubts anyone would use Tickets on AA just because his Stun counts as a Debuff. That doesn't hinder his use at all, really. There's no reason why he should be exclusively capable of that.

SCZ

RagamugginGunner wrote: »

Can we get more info on the side missions? This sounds way too much like the valor missions that randomly started for your alliance. I really hope this isn't the case as those were awful.

That’s how it sounded to me also. Clarity would be appreciated

Dexman1349

Hulk_77 wrote: »

Rank down tickets for AA please. Make it champion specific.

How many people are going to rank down their AA? Be serious. He's a god-tier champ without that one little side bonus of his stuns not being a debuff.

I'm not happy they're changing course on him, but I'm not surprised either.

Kabam Miike

Hey Everybody,

I'm sorry to report that a moderator gave you incorrect information when this was first reported. We know how important it is for us to be sure that we are giving you the most accurate information that we possibly can.

This was a bug, and although it was a long standing one, it doesn't mean that we didn't have to fix it. Archangel’s Stun was not acting like every other stun in the game.

The issue with having a Stun that does not act like a debuff is that it was causing a lot of problems, and with more new content and modes being added, this was becoming a bigger and bigger problem. Archangel was not only able to bypass Stun Immune nodes, but his stun would bypass other Champions abilities, like Agent Venom's Tenacity or Black Panther (Civil War)'s Reflect Stun, as well as not interact with Masteries like Willpower.

With this interaction becoming more and more prevalent in different game modes, we started seeing more of these problems come up, and this bug was one that became more of a priority.

We don’t have any plans to distribute Rank Down tickets as this is resolving a bug and not changing an intended fundamental Champion mechanic in a significant way.

Wolfe

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hey Everybody,

I'm sorry to report that a moderator gave you incorrect information when this was first reported. We know how important it is for us to be sure that we are giving you the most accurate information that we possibly can.

This was a bug, and although it was a long standing one, it doesn't mean that we didn't have to fix it. Archangel’s Stun was not acting like every other stun in the game.

The issue with having a Stun that does not act like a debuff is that it was causing a lot of problems, and with more new content and modes being added, this was becoming a bigger and bigger problem. Archangel was not only able to bypass Stun Immune nodes, but his stun would bypass other Champions abilities, like Agent Venom's Tenacity or Black Panther (Civil War)'s Reflect Stun, as well as not interact with Masteries like Willpower.

With this interaction becoming more and more prevalent in different game modes, we started seeing more of these problems come up, and this bug was one that became more of a priority.

We don’t have any plans to distribute Rank Down tickets as this is resolving a bug and not changing an intended fundamental Champion mechanic in a significant way.

Thanks for the clarification. It is rather unfortunate though that this “bug” was only told to us more than a year after the champion’s release and after a moderator has made it very clear the champion is working as intended.

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TheBaldAvenger

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hey Everybody,

I'm sorry to report that a moderator gave you incorrect information when this was first reported. We know how important it is for us to be sure that we are giving you the most accurate information that we possibly can.

This was a bug, and although it was a long standing one, it doesn't mean that we didn't have to fix it. Archangel’s Stun was not acting like every other stun in the game.

The issue with having a Stun that does not act like a debuff is that it was causing a lot of problems, and with more new content and modes being added, this was becoming a bigger and bigger problem. Archangel was not only able to bypass Stun Immune nodes, but his stun would bypass other Champions abilities, like Agent Venom's Tenacity or Black Panther (Civil War)'s Reflect Stun, as well as not interact with Masteries like Willpower.

With this interaction becoming more and more prevalent in different game modes, we started seeing more of these problems come up, and this bug was one that became more of a priority.

We don’t have any plans to distribute Rank Down tickets as this is resolving a bug and not changing an intended fundamental Champion mechanic in a significant way.

Regardless, people used precious resources to rank this character due to incorrect information given to the community, rank down ticket (even if just specifically for AA) is 100% needed on this one.

At the very least you should open up support that if people submit a ticket by a certain date, you will rank the champion down for them and credit them back the resources

Patchie93

@Kabam Miike

So does this mean the stun that AA neurotoxin causes on expiry will be reflected by Black Panther (Civil war) and if so can you explain why?

nope

I appreciate the update @Kabam Miike

But since was a VERY well known ability of his and the confirmation that this ability was "working as intended" has been around since January, this is a very big deal. At any time, a Moderator could have corrected this information but instead, we get an out of the blue change to the character which kabam seems as a correction of a bug and the players see as a nerf. Had this "incorrect information" been corrected during that time, I'm sure the issue would be much smaller. But instead, it raises questions about literally every other mod statement.

As players, how are we supposed to know what's correct information and what isn't? I realize people make mistakes, but again... This is something that SHOULD have been clarified long before people had months to dump catalysts, gold, awakening gems and signature stones into this champ... Not to mention units used on crystals which contained Archangel. This is a pretty big communication failure that can only hurt the players. I'm disappointed in the way this was handled over the past months/today and worried what it might mean in the future.

LoPresti

oh... okay. Well, I think some rank down tickets are in order

FactorQ

@Kabam Miike please consider giving some compensation to the many players who have spent units/shards to obtain AA as well as resources to rank him up. Not saying rank down tickets are warranted but some unit/resource compensation seems fair considering this is a mistake on Kabam's part and not the result of players abusing a loophole/bug.

When Kabam says something is "working as intended" as a player I want to be able to believe it. Mistakes happen, but when they do I should hope that Kabam does some thing to correct the consequences of the mistake. Your miscommunication costs players. What may seem like a minor change to you has major consequences to the actual players who use these champions on a daily basis. Please do right by the players who are already trying their best to play within the rules and go as far as to ask for confirmation on a champion's behavior.

Slappapow

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hey Everybody,

I'm sorry to report that a moderator gave you incorrect information when this was first reported. We know how important it is for us to be sure that we are giving you the most accurate information that we possibly can.

This was a bug, and although it was a long standing one, it doesn't mean that we didn't have to fix it. Archangel’s Stun was not acting like every other stun in the game.

The issue with having a Stun that does not act like a debuff is that it was causing a lot of problems, and with more new content and modes being added, this was becoming a bigger and bigger problem. Archangel was not only able to bypass Stun Immune nodes, but his stun would bypass other Champions abilities, like Agent Venom's Tenacity or Black Panther (Civil War)'s Reflect Stun, as well as not interact with Masteries like Willpower.

With this interaction becoming more and more prevalent in different game modes, we started seeing more of these problems come up, and this bug was one that became more of a priority.

We don’t have any plans to distribute Rank Down tickets as this is resolving a bug and not changing an intended fundamental Champion mechanic in a significant way.

Technically, Archangel's stun should bypass Black Panther (Civil War)Z's reflect stun because it isn't a stun that triggers on contact.

DNA3000

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hey Everybody,

I'm sorry to report that a moderator gave you incorrect information when this was first reported. We know how important it is for us to be sure that we are giving you the most accurate information that we possibly can.

This was a bug, and although it was a long standing one, it doesn't mean that we didn't have to fix it. Archangel’s Stun was not acting like every other stun in the game.

I have no problem with the stun being changed. However, it honestly isn't enough to simply acknowledge that prior information given was incorrect. Players need to know that the information they are being given is trustworthy, and we aren't talking about a typo. The moderators have zero knowledge about design intent except by asking the developers and passing that information along. Such an error should therefore never take place.

Kabam as a company must know at all times what information is being given to the players, and must correct errors when they are detected. It is not acceptable for Kabam representatives to make statements about gameplay Kabam cannot detect are in error. Mistakes happen. But there must be a way for Kabam to detect them and correct them. When this "bug" was determined to be a high priority bug, Kabam should have had a way to review all the information and discussions that had occurred about this issue prior to that point, if for no other reason than to be certain all the relevant information about the bug was known before the developers tackled it. During that review, the fact that the behavior was officially stated to be intended should have been detected at that time.

If no part of the bug fix process reviewed all the statements and reports made by the players and the subsequent responses made by the developers and/or moderators, how would you even know whether you actually fixed all elements of the problem? I don't think it is unreasonable for players to expect that Kabam itself as an organization knows at all time what it is collectively telling the players, and to expect that information to remain consistent. Mistakes happen, and changes happen, but in both cases the players should reasonably expect that they will be promptly informed.

Saying: "we've discovered that players were given incorrect information about the mechanics of Archangel's neurotoxin stun in the past, and unfortunately this behavior was not intended and is being changed" would not be perceived as fantastic, but it would be better than simply changing reality on the fly. And saying "we've discovered that a particular behavior that was originally intended has side effects that make it necessary to change the behavior" is also acceptable. Notice how much more generally understanding the community was about the Gwenpool change when it was simply straight up admitted that the behavior was originally intended but had to be changed due to an unforeseen exploit.

Kabam's position continue to be that transparency is important, but to be candid you're only acknowledging what we already know. We were given wrong information, and now we're being told something different. I'm not saying don't fix the bug and I'm certainly not asking for RDTs or any other compensation. I'm asking if Kabam believes that giving us accurate information is important, why does it seem to not matter at all when incorrect information is given? Shouldn't there be some acknowledgement that the process failed to do so in this case, and that means the process needs to be improved in a way to prevent it from happening in the future?

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BitterSteel

DNA3000 wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hey Everybody,

I'm sorry to report that a moderator gave you incorrect information when this was first reported. We know how important it is for us to be sure that we are giving you the most accurate information that we possibly can.

This was a bug, and although it was a long standing one, it doesn't mean that we didn't have to fix it. Archangel’s Stun was not acting like every other stun in the game.

I have no problem with the stun being changed. However, it honestly isn't enough to simply acknowledge that prior information given was incorrect. Players need to know that the information they are being given is trustworthy, and we aren't talking about a typo. The moderators have zero knowledge about design intent except by asking the developers and passing that information along. Such an error should therefore never take place.

Kabam as a company must know at all times what information is being given to the players, and must correct errors when they are detected. It is not acceptable for Kabam representatives to make statements about gameplay Kabam cannot detect are in error. Mistakes happen. But there must be a way for Kabam to detect them and correct them. When this "bug" was determined to be a high priority bug, Kabam should have had a way to review all the information and discussions that had occurred about this issue prior to that point, if for no other reason than to be certain all the relevant information about the bug was known before the developers tackled it. During that review, the fact that the behavior was officially stated to be intended should have been detected at that time.

If no part of the bug fix process reviewed all the statements and reports made by the players and the subsequent responses made by the developers and/or moderators, how would you even know whether you actually fixed all elements of the problem? I don't think it is unreasonable for players to expect that Kabam itself as an organization knows at all time what it is collectively telling the players, and to expect that information to remain consistent. Mistakes happen, and changes happen, but in both cases the players should reasonably expect that they will be promptly informed.

Saying: "we've discovered that players were given incorrect information about the mechanics of Archangel's neurotoxin stun in the past, and unfortunately this behavior was not intended and is being changed" would not be perceived as fantastic, but it would be better than simply changing reality on the fly. And saying "we've discovered that a particular behavior that was originally intended has side effects that make it necessary to change the behavior" is also acceptable. Notice how much more generally understanding the community was about the Gwenpool change when it was simply straight up admitted that the behavior was originally intended but had to be changed due to an unforeseen exploit.

Kabam's position continue to be that transparency is important, but to be candid you're only acknowledging what we already know. We were given wrong information, and now we're being told something different. I'm not saying don't fix the bug and I'm certainly not asking for RDTs or any other compensation. I'm asking if Kabam believes that giving us accurate information is important, why does it seem to not matter at all when incorrect information is given? Shouldn't there be some acknowledgement that the process failed to do so in this case, and that means the process needs to be improved in a way to prevent it from happening in the future?

Ladies and gentlemen I present yet another brilliant post that I completely agree with and deserves a genuine response from kabam, only to be ignored and lost in the thread.

Wolfe

A lot of valid points have been raised in regards to AA and I sincerely hope Kabam considers them. I do agree that the issuance of RDTs might be an overkill since AA is technically not severely affected but giving players the option to rank him down specifically would really be appreciated.

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CapWW2

So how come we never knew it was a bug. All of the sudden it is a bug ??? Neurotoxins ????

phillgreen

Changes to champs that are not an exploitable bug should be made public now for the change to take effect next month.

People rank champs for many reasons, I'm not saying AA is ruined by this change but clearly there will be some who make decisions based on areas of the contest they need the champ in.

Someone who ranked last week based on the ability to stun where no other champs can can rightly feel aggrieved, especially since incorrect information was already supplied by a member of staff no less, about this particular "bug" and that is was working as intended almost 6 months ago.

There should be NO changes to the way a champ operates unless the individual has had the opportunity to decide whether that change reduces the value of that champ and are able to make rank up decisions accordingly.

In the case of the dorm change, to me an instant change is acceptable due to that being exploitable across the entire contest regardless of circumstance.

Archangel is nerfed and what makes it worse than any other champ change is that Kabam were informed and responded contrary to what is being done now.

phillgreen

Edit to add a comma, post pending approval.

Looking after the big picture, kudos.

VTA92

Mcord117 wrote: »

Kabam reserves the right to change champions as they see fit. The also appear to reserve the right to change their statements as it suits their purposes. Just remember no comment made by a mod here can be viewed as being safe to trust and that all champs can be nerfed as they desire.

Was literally about to post a similar comment. Can’t trust anything a MOD says anymore. There seems to be a serious break in communication between the dev team and MODS.

There should be a much larger Dev Team presence on these forums with how complex these characters, nodes, and content are getting.

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BitterSteel

IanMoone89 wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

IanMoone89 wrote: »

Are you kidding me another side missions bad had enough we had 2 mons of it now your making it a 3rd month of side missions....we need a damn break....dont tell me in july will be another side mission for wasp film

I truly don’t understand this mindset. It is solely your choice to do side missions. They are up to you to decide if they are worth time and effort. If you feel like you need a break and don’t want to do it then you make the decision not to complete it.

There are a large number of players who feel burnt out and want less content. There are equally a large number of players who love having so much to do. If there’s a month of nothing, just an event quest then kabam annoys players who want to do something, whereas if they put side quests in then the people who want to do something are happy, and the people who want a break can have their break.

Kabam are doing a great job having all this content, I loved dungeons (room for improvement but that’s besides the point), I hated vanquishing blows so I didn’t do a single one. Don’t get annoyed with kabam for releasing too much, just do the amount you want to do.

You dont understand for an end player like myself falling behind isnt a option at all and if i opt to not do these side missions i fall behind...i already havent ranked any of my champs in over a month bc the champs i get from 5* are ****

That’s irrelevant, you falling behind isn’t an excuse for kabam to stop putting out content. Why should I not be able to have any side quests to do because you don’t want to fall behind? You have a choice, play and stay competitive risking burnout, or take a break and miss rewards. I’m an endgame player myself, so I do understand your situation. But I also understand that having no side quests or events means it’s a boring month while those who are burnt out rest. When there are side quests people who want to do them, do them and people who don’t can rest. That way you please more people.

Hulk_77

Dexman1349 wrote: »

Hulk_77 wrote: »

Rank down tickets for AA please. Make it champion specific.

How many people are going to rank down their AA? Be serious. He's a god-tier champ without that one little side bonus of his stuns not being a debuff.

I'm not happy they're changing course on him, but I'm not surprised either.

I would rank mine down to r3 instantaneously after this change.

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