What is classed as a “projectile”

So,

With the addition of domino, and if I’m correct in believing you cannot parry her first medium? I think? Because It’s classed as a projectile.


So why are champions like magneto, DS, still effected by debuffs that require physical contact? As they use energy to attack?

This is extremely contradictory.

If domino can avoid triggering a debuff because she doesn’t make contact, then it literally makes magneto and DS broken...

It’s like shooting someone with a gun, and the gun inflicting the damage, not the bullet.

???

Coatsey.

Comments

  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    Doing energy damage and dealing damage with a projectile are two completely different things.
  • CoatseyyyCoatseyyy Posts: 13
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    Doing energy damage and dealing damage with a projectile are two completely different things.

    That doesn’t make sense? And doesn’t take away the fact that DS And magneto do not make contact?
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★
    edited June 2018
    Technically classic daredevil should be able to evade collosus level 1 since when he jumps through the air he is, in physics terms anyway, a projectile. The only forces acting on him are the gravitational force and air resistance once he leaves the ground.
  • Coatseyyy wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    Doing energy damage and dealing damage with a projectile are two completely different things.

    That doesn’t make sense? And doesn’t take away the fact that DS And magneto do not make contact?

    They make contact. They damage isn't physical,just it
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    Coatseyyy wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    Doing energy damage and dealing damage with a projectile are two completely different things.

    That doesn’t make sense? And doesn’t take away the fact that DS And magneto do not make contact?

    They don’t shoot anything at the opponent with their basic attacks. Both of their L1s are considered projectiles because they launch an attack through the air at the opponent. Their basic attacks hit/touch the opponent. It just does energy damage instead of physical damage because they’re not punching or kicking.
  • Hammerbro_64Hammerbro_64 Posts: 4,079 ★★★★★
    Think of someone using a lightsaber. It’s energy and not a projectile because he swung it and he was holding it while his enemy got hit. If he used a “regular” metal sword, It would be physical damage and not a projectile.

    On the other hand, a repulsor blast is energy and a projectile, but bullets are physical projectiles.

    They are different concepts completely. It just so happens that most energy attacks are projectiles. DS Mags and Dorm all have non-projectile energy attacks
  • wSWeaponXwSWeaponX Posts: 366 ★★
    Technically classic daredevil should be able to evade collosus level 1 since when he jumps through the air he is, in physics terms anyway, a projectile. The only forces acting on him are the gravitational force and air resistance once he leaves the ground.

    Lmao
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 9,554 Guardian
    Technically classic daredevil should be able to evade collosus level 1 since when he jumps through the air he is, in physics terms anyway, a projectile. The only forces acting on him are the gravitational force and air resistance once he leaves the ground.

    Rocket propelled projectiles are still projectiles, so I guess technically speaking all flying champs are projectiles when moving forward.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Technically classic daredevil should be able to evade collosus level 1 since when he jumps through the air he is, in physics terms anyway, a projectile. The only forces acting on him are the gravitational force and air resistance once he leaves the ground.

    Rocket propelled projectiles are still projectiles, so I guess technically speaking all flying champs are projectiles when moving forward.

    Eh, not in terms of physics, which is that no forces except the ones I said before are acting on it. However, I’m pretty sure Daredevil evades Sentinels special 2 so I guess the game is using the military definition as well which is rocket propelled. But if it was pure physics based projectiles then daredevil would evade collosus and not sentinel, since another force is acting on the missiles.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 9,554 Guardian
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Technically classic daredevil should be able to evade collosus level 1 since when he jumps through the air he is, in physics terms anyway, a projectile. The only forces acting on him are the gravitational force and air resistance once he leaves the ground.

    Rocket propelled projectiles are still projectiles, so I guess technically speaking all flying champs are projectiles when moving forward.

    Eh, not in terms of physics, which is that no forces except the ones I said before are acting on it. However, I’m pretty sure Daredevil evades Sentinels special 2 so I guess the game is using the military definition as well which is rocket propelled. But if it was pure physics based projectiles then daredevil would evade collosus and not sentinel, since another force is acting on the missiles.

    Well, in fact I think they are using the game mechanical definition of projectile, which in MCOC appears to be an attack which has a target location and a velocity, which determines the delay for the attack based on the location distance.

    Different games do this slightly differently, but I think in MCOC a non-ranged ("melee") attack requires contact, which the game resolves based on either actual collision detection (true or hit-box) or radius of effect (centered on the attacker). Projectile ("ranged") attacks when they are initiated pick a specific spot to hit, generally where the target is, and then the game uses the attack's intrinsic velocity to calculate when the attack lands on that spot, hitting anything standing there or possibly in between the attacker and that spot. Evading a projectile attack involves allowing the attacker to initiate the attack, so the target spot is chosen where the player is, then moving during the interval between when the target location is fixed and when the attack "arrives." The actual visuals of the attack are eye candy and have no bearing on whether the attack hits or not (even when they look like they would hit they can just pass right through the target).

    Daredevil can evade projectiles because he is designed in such a way that whenever a projectile attack is initiated and Daredevil detects that he is standing on the target location for a projectile he immediately evades backward, which guarantees he is not standing on the target spot or else is in the process of evading on that spot (if he is up against the wall, say). That doesn't work for non-projectile attacks because Daredevil gets no "warning" about them.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Technically classic daredevil should be able to evade collosus level 1 since when he jumps through the air he is, in physics terms anyway, a projectile. The only forces acting on him are the gravitational force and air resistance once he leaves the ground.

    Rocket propelled projectiles are still projectiles, so I guess technically speaking all flying champs are projectiles when moving forward.

    Eh, not in terms of physics, which is that no forces except the ones I said before are acting on it. However, I’m pretty sure Daredevil evades Sentinels special 2 so I guess the game is using the military definition as well which is rocket propelled. But if it was pure physics based projectiles then daredevil would evade collosus and not sentinel, since another force is acting on the missiles.

    Well, in fact I think they are using the game mechanical definition of projectile, which in MCOC appears to be an attack which has a target location and a velocity, which determines the delay for the attack based on the location distance.

    Different games do this slightly differently, but I think in MCOC a non-ranged ("melee") attack requires contact, which the game resolves based on either actual collision detection (true or hit-box) or radius of effect (centered on the attacker). Projectile ("ranged") attacks when they are initiated pick a specific spot to hit, generally where the target is, and then the game uses the attack's intrinsic velocity to calculate when the attack lands on that spot, hitting anything standing there or possibly in between the attacker and that spot. Evading a projectile attack involves allowing the attacker to initiate the attack, so the target spot is chosen where the player is, then moving during the interval between when the target location is fixed and when the attack "arrives." The actual visuals of the attack are eye candy and have no bearing on whether the attack hits or not (even when they look like they would hit they can just pass right through the target).

    Daredevil can evade projectiles because he is designed in such a way that whenever a projectile attack is initiated and Daredevil detects that he is standing on the target location for a projectile he immediately evades backward, which guarantees he is not standing on the target spot or else is in the process of evading on that spot (if he is up against the wall, say). That doesn't work for non-projectile attacks because Daredevil gets no "warning" about them.

    I’m not really discussing or talking about what the ingame mechanics are, I was just pointing out a funny detail that if daredevil actually evaded projectiles (or at least the physics definition) then he would evade collosus sp1 but not sentinel sp2.

    Specifically from a physics standpoint, a missile isn’t a projectile due to the propulsion, but collosus is, because once he’s jumped he doesn’t continue applying a force to accelerate/maintain his velocity.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 9,554 Guardian
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Technically classic daredevil should be able to evade collosus level 1 since when he jumps through the air he is, in physics terms anyway, a projectile. The only forces acting on him are the gravitational force and air resistance once he leaves the ground.

    Rocket propelled projectiles are still projectiles, so I guess technically speaking all flying champs are projectiles when moving forward.

    Eh, not in terms of physics, which is that no forces except the ones I said before are acting on it. However, I’m pretty sure Daredevil evades Sentinels special 2 so I guess the game is using the military definition as well which is rocket propelled. But if it was pure physics based projectiles then daredevil would evade collosus and not sentinel, since another force is acting on the missiles.

    Well, in fact I think they are using the game mechanical definition of projectile, which in MCOC appears to be an attack which has a target location and a velocity, which determines the delay for the attack based on the location distance.

    Different games do this slightly differently, but I think in MCOC a non-ranged ("melee") attack requires contact, which the game resolves based on either actual collision detection (true or hit-box) or radius of effect (centered on the attacker). Projectile ("ranged") attacks when they are initiated pick a specific spot to hit, generally where the target is, and then the game uses the attack's intrinsic velocity to calculate when the attack lands on that spot, hitting anything standing there or possibly in between the attacker and that spot. Evading a projectile attack involves allowing the attacker to initiate the attack, so the target spot is chosen where the player is, then moving during the interval between when the target location is fixed and when the attack "arrives." The actual visuals of the attack are eye candy and have no bearing on whether the attack hits or not (even when they look like they would hit they can just pass right through the target).

    Daredevil can evade projectiles because he is designed in such a way that whenever a projectile attack is initiated and Daredevil detects that he is standing on the target location for a projectile he immediately evades backward, which guarantees he is not standing on the target spot or else is in the process of evading on that spot (if he is up against the wall, say). That doesn't work for non-projectile attacks because Daredevil gets no "warning" about them.

    I’m not really discussing or talking about what the ingame mechanics are, I was just pointing out a funny detail that if daredevil actually evaded projectiles (or at least the physics definition) then he would evade collosus sp1 but not sentinel sp2.

    Specifically from a physics standpoint, a missile isn’t a projectile due to the propulsion, but collosus is, because once he’s jumped he doesn’t continue applying a force to accelerate/maintain his velocity.

    I assumed once the conversation moved to a technical definition of "projectile" that only physics textbook homework assignments really care about, we'd left the area of funny details.
  • taojay1taojay1 Posts: 1,062 ★★★
    Is astral evade a projectile attack? It looks like Mordo throws a blast of energy at the attacker's feet while simultaneously evading. As a follow up to this, has anyone tried fighting Mordo with og daredevil to see if daredevil can evade astral evade?
  • WerewrymWerewrym Posts: 2,294 Guardian
    Technically classic daredevil should be able to evade collosus level 1 since when he jumps through the air he is, in physics terms anyway, a projectile. The only forces acting on him are the gravitational force and air resistance once he leaves the ground.

    I like this guy, he knows his physics. Would you say that Daredevil should also be able to evade floating champs since technically they are only effected by gravity and air resistance?
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Technically classic daredevil should be able to evade collosus level 1 since when he jumps through the air he is, in physics terms anyway, a projectile. The only forces acting on him are the gravitational force and air resistance once he leaves the ground.

    Rocket propelled projectiles are still projectiles, so I guess technically speaking all flying champs are projectiles when moving forward.

    Eh, not in terms of physics, which is that no forces except the ones I said before are acting on it. However, I’m pretty sure Daredevil evades Sentinels special 2 so I guess the game is using the military definition as well which is rocket propelled. But if it was pure physics based projectiles then daredevil would evade collosus and not sentinel, since another force is acting on the missiles.

    Well, in fact I think they are using the game mechanical definition of projectile, which in MCOC appears to be an attack which has a target location and a velocity, which determines the delay for the attack based on the location distance.

    Different games do this slightly differently, but I think in MCOC a non-ranged ("melee") attack requires contact, which the game resolves based on either actual collision detection (true or hit-box) or radius of effect (centered on the attacker). Projectile ("ranged") attacks when they are initiated pick a specific spot to hit, generally where the target is, and then the game uses the attack's intrinsic velocity to calculate when the attack lands on that spot, hitting anything standing there or possibly in between the attacker and that spot. Evading a projectile attack involves allowing the attacker to initiate the attack, so the target spot is chosen where the player is, then moving during the interval between when the target location is fixed and when the attack "arrives." The actual visuals of the attack are eye candy and have no bearing on whether the attack hits or not (even when they look like they would hit they can just pass right through the target).

    Daredevil can evade projectiles because he is designed in such a way that whenever a projectile attack is initiated and Daredevil detects that he is standing on the target location for a projectile he immediately evades backward, which guarantees he is not standing on the target spot or else is in the process of evading on that spot (if he is up against the wall, say). That doesn't work for non-projectile attacks because Daredevil gets no "warning" about them.

    I’m not really discussing or talking about what the ingame mechanics are, I was just pointing out a funny detail that if daredevil actually evaded projectiles (or at least the physics definition) then he would evade collosus sp1 but not sentinel sp2.

    Specifically from a physics standpoint, a missile isn’t a projectile due to the propulsion, but collosus is, because once he’s jumped he doesn’t continue applying a force to accelerate/maintain his velocity.

    I assumed once the conversation moved to a technical definition of "projectile" that only physics textbook homework assignments really care about, we'd left the area of funny details.

    Well I mean, I did say straight from the start in my first post that I was speaking about a physics standpoint. From the start I was playing on the fact that projectiles have no forces on them but gravitational and drag, meaning collosus is one. I’m not sure where you got the idea that I was talking about ingame mechanics and visuals and radius of effect.

    I find it funny to think of collosus l1 as a projectile so technically daredevil should evade him. If you or anyone doesn’t find it funny, I’m not that bothered, It really wasn’t that deep.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★
    Werewrym wrote: »
    Technically classic daredevil should be able to evade collosus level 1 since when he jumps through the air he is, in physics terms anyway, a projectile. The only forces acting on him are the gravitational force and air resistance once he leaves the ground.

    I like this guy, he knows his physics. Would you say that Daredevil should also be able to evade floating champs since technically they are only effected by gravity and air resistance?
    This might be a long post...

    Hmm, so like magneto and strange? So I’m gonna say no, only because to be able to float (fly basically) they have to apply a force to something. Magneto alters the magnetic field around him which then produces a force on him. He repels against the metals in the earth. So he isn’t a projectile, simply because the magnetic force is acting on him. Imagine a paper aeroplane thrown. It is a projectile because it’s just air resistance and gravity, now put a giant fan below it and it is no longer a projectile. Magneto is similar.

    Dr strange I believe flies due to either the cloak of levitation, or magical energy I’m not sure which version Mcoc strange is based on. So either way, the cloak is producing a force on strange to be able to lift him (gotta feel sorry for his neck) or maybe the cloak has some sort of magic that enables him to fly, but still, even using magic he will be applying a force to something.

    I don’t know how rogue flies, it’s the same as ms marvel Carol Danvers but there’s no explanation how she can. I assume it’s some sort of cosmic energy but she would need to be applying some force.

    Archangel is basically a bird, his wings provide the force, just like a crow isn’t a projectile.

    Rocket is another floater, (sorry not sorry), but he’s not a projectile because of the force created when the jet pack is on. Iron man infinity war is the same, his repulsor technology applies a force that keeps him in the air.

    The champ I’m least sure on would be vision. The way he’s explained is he can shift his density and according to marvel wikia “The Vision's body has been saturated with special cybernetically activated cells which are capable of interfacing with some unknown dimension with which he can shunt or accrue particles of mass”.

    There’s only two ways vision can shift density (which is related to volume and mass) and it’s to increase or decrease one of those two, vision has a set volume, when you see him shift through a wall he doesn’t get bigger or smaller, so that means his mass has to decrease dramatically.

    Because the mass has to go somewhere, it can’t just disappear, vision is really hard to decide whether he’s a projectile or not. Because theoretically, if this ‘unknown dimension’ is able to take his mass away from him, he would be able to just float. (Like how Ant man may actually float if he became Giant Man and real physics applied, since I’m guessing his density would be around that of air with his mass in such a large volume. Ant man actually has so many problems with physics, like how he should be a black hole at the end of the first movie, but I’m digressing. Check out FilmTheory’s video on ant man on YouTube it’s great if you want to know more)

    And if vision could float then he would technically be a projectile. But then there’s the question of how does he move in the air? He has to apply a force to something to move, so it kind of comes down to if vision controls his density to fly and phase (this is assuming it’s not quantum mechanics, which is a whole other kettle of complicated fish) and if his mass can go somewhere, and if the force he applies is one big push and not a constant force. (Imagine swimming in a pool, for daredevil to evade vision, he would have to be as thought he was pushing off from the side in one go and then drift, rather than constantly kicking).

    Other champs specials that technically Daredevil should evade are kinda just any champ that jumps during their special and hits/kicks. As, when they leave the ground they become a projectile.

    So yeah, maybe a longer answer than you were expecting but I think it’s interesting so if you read it all then thanks!
  • ShadPrinceShadPrince Posts: 826 ★★★
    Um
    Science yes me too
    anyhoos
    @Coatseyyy Domino's first medium is actually a combo of a physical hit and then a projectile attack where she shoots, so you should be able to parry it. If you're wondering why you can't parry her after your combo, it's because she plays a bit like Yondu where the first attack after receiving a combo is a light attack, and her first light attack, like Yondu, is a projectile so you can't parry it.
    So you can play her like Yondu: parry the medium, but don't parry the light.
  • ShadPrinceShadPrince Posts: 826 ★★★
    @BitterSteel would you consider the second part of Spark's sp1 as a projectile? Just wondering bc I'm kinda interested.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★
    ShadPrince wrote: »
    @BitterSteel would you consider the second part of Spark's sp1 as a projectile? Just wondering bc I'm kinda interested.

    Not really, since he’s pulling himself to the ground with webs. The tension in the webs is another force that is acting on spark, so he’s not a projectile
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