Master Bracket vs Platinum 3 Bracket POST Kabam action

Fact: Alliances that were deemed to have cheated lost season points and AW rating.

Problem: AW rating reduction gives those alliances (ones that were deemed cheaters) matches in bracket that they don't belong in.

Example: A Master's bracket alliance VS a Platinum 3 bracket alliance DUE TO AW RATING.

Solution: Severely reduce the season points enough to drop them out of a bracket - otherwise you end up screwing everyone else that were not deemed to cheat. Where is the compensation to the alliances that suffered the loss due to cheaters???
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Comments

  • GOT_BOOSTGOT_BOOST Posts: 24
    ... flame away (who's going to get started to dismantle this argument?)
  • PincheChingonPincheChingon Posts: 99
    edited June 2018
    All Kabam have done, is give these top tier alliances a chance to win more shards, because they are now facing much easier alliances, since their war rating and season points are much lower to match those in platinum 2 or 3. This is the so called balance to the game. Punish them by giving them an opportunity to gain more additional shards by beating up weaker alliances.

    Get ready alliances on platinum 2 or 3, to face off against ones from Master. Hehe.
  • FimsonCrogFimsonCrog Posts: 83
    This has happened to us a few times. And unfortunately, they happened towards the end of the season when we needed wins the most. Very unfortunate. I hope Kabam can remedy this. The collateral damage is just as painful as the original offense.
  • rockykostonrockykoston Posts: 750 ★★★
    I never thought of that. What “if” your alliance does a bunch of cheating strategy’s in mid season, because you know Kabam will punish you, and drop your rating and points, but in doing so, allows you to have much easier match ups, at the the end of the season, therefore solidifying your chance to get back up to Master or P1 ranking with very little difficulty.

    It ingenious. Use Kabam to help you!
    Wish I would have thought about that at the beginning of the season.

    I bow before your ingenuity.

    We should all do this and enjoy awesome rewards.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,983 Guardian
    I never thought of that. What “if” your alliance does a bunch of cheating strategy’s in mid season, because you know Kabam will punish you, and drop your rating and points, but in doing so, allows you to have much easier match ups, at the the end of the season, therefore solidifying your chance to get back up to Master or P1 ranking with very little difficulty.

    It ingenious. Use Kabam to help you!
    Wish I would have thought about that at the beginning of the season.

    That's illogical. If this worked, the correct strategy would be to deliberately lose while scoring as much points as possible, so you keep earning points while also losing war rating. But it doesn't generally work mathematically: you generally end up earning fewer points doing this.

    This effect does exist, but it doesn't completely override the penalties being assessed. Instead, it makes the penalties lower than they appear to be on the surface, sometimes dramatically so. It isn't actually better for an alliance to get penalized, but the actual penalty could be lowered in effect by enough to make it an attractive risk to take. That's a problem unto itself.
  • 7slayerMDK7slayerMDK Posts: 18
    This has been on ongoing nightmare from cheating alliances and kabams pathetic solutions. Last 3 war we have been put up against alliances that are 5 mill higher than us with tons of legend tags. Unbelievable
  • Nerfed2DefNerfed2Def Posts: 287 ★★
    Same here. This is no punishment or solution. We are getting matched up with them as well. Ban them from competitive play. Kabam has just reduced rewards and given them a bunch of shards. The base always suffers for the spenders.
  • I agree with OP. I made a post about this a few months ago and I got flamed. I'm glad people are finally starting to see what I was trying to raise now that the season is about to end.

    And those posts about collusion, bribery etc. are very troubling. At what point does Kabam have the courage to do the right thing? A lot of us are losing patience. Wouldn't be surprised to see an even bigger exodus of players after this season.
  • PincheChingonPincheChingon Posts: 99
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    I never thought of that. What “if” your alliance does a bunch of cheating strategy’s in mid season, because you know Kabam will punish you, and drop your rating and points, but in doing so, allows you to have much easier match ups, at the the end of the season, therefore solidifying your chance to get back up to Master or P1 ranking with very little difficulty.

    It ingenious. Use Kabam to help you!
    Wish I would have thought about that at the beginning of the season.

    That's illogical. If this worked, the correct strategy would be to deliberately lose while scoring as much points as possible, so you keep earning points while also losing war rating. But it doesn't generally work mathematically: you generally end up earning fewer points doing this.

    This effect does exist, but it doesn't completely override the penalties being assessed. Instead, it makes the penalties lower than they appear to be on the surface, sometimes dramatically so. It isn't actually better for an alliance to get penalized, but the actual penalty could be lowered in effect by enough to make it an attractive risk to take. That's a problem unto itself.

    It can work, if Kabam doesn’t drop your points by that much. In theory, you can earn it back with all the easy match ups you will have once they drop you 1-2 tiers down.
    Imagine if you are P1, and get dropped to Gold1? You know how easy it is to win the next few wars? Depending on how many points is needed to advance up to next tier, you can possibly advance to next tier with 2-3 wins, obviously war rating will increase as well.

    The problem is the punishment is not serve enough to end the rampant cheating/collusion.
  • DNA3000 wrote: »
    I never thought of that. What “if” your alliance does a bunch of cheating strategy’s in mid season, because you know Kabam will punish you, and drop your rating and points, but in doing so, allows you to have much easier match ups, at the the end of the season, therefore solidifying your chance to get back up to Master or P1 ranking with very little difficulty.

    It ingenious. Use Kabam to help you!
    Wish I would have thought about that at the beginning of the season.

    That's illogical. If this worked, the correct strategy would be to deliberately lose while scoring as much points as possible, so you keep earning points while also losing war rating. But it doesn't generally work mathematically: you generally end up earning fewer points doing this.

    This effect does exist, but it doesn't completely override the penalties being assessed. Instead, it makes the penalties lower than they appear to be on the surface, sometimes dramatically so. It isn't actually better for an alliance to get penalized, but the actual penalty could be lowered in effect by enough to make it an attractive risk to take. That's a problem unto itself.

    It can work, if Kabam doesn’t drop your points by that much. In theory, you can earn it back with all the easy match ups you will have once they drop you 1-2 tiers down.
    Imagine if you are P1, and get dropped to Gold1? You know how easy it is to win the next few wars? Depending on how many points is needed to advance up to next tier, you can possibly advance to next tier with 2-3 wins, obviously war rating will increase as well.

    The problem is the punishment is not serve enough to end the rampant cheating/collusion.

    Yep, and they made it easier to move up and down tiers for season 2.
  • DaleManguDaleMangu Posts: 48
    How will this season be fixed? I think same rewards all across the board. People spend money on this game and its unfair to have this kind of disadvantage.
  • Vale84Vale84 Posts: 308 ★★★
    GOT_BOOST wrote: »
    Fact: Alliances that were deemed to have cheated lost season points and AW rating.

    Problem: AW rating reduction gives those alliances (ones that were deemed cheaters) matches in bracket that they don't belong in.

    Example: A Master's bracket alliance VS a Platinum 3 bracket alliance DUE TO AW RATING.

    Solution: Severely reduce the season points enough to drop them out of a bracket - otherwise you end up screwing everyone else that were not deemed to cheat. Where is the compensation to the alliances that suffered the loss due to cheaters???

    3100+ rating is still master rank 11-20 rating. I don't understand how said penalized allies can match platinum 3. That said, it's been proven already in early season that there are indeed master allies who matched late to find weaker opponents. Even the other ally punished had their rating gone down to platinum 1 at most. So unless said allies matched super late risking to lose a war, it's unlikely that will happen.

    Of course, alghorythm can alwais f up and match you. But matching a penalized ally or a legit master one isn't gonna change much for the platinum 3 one. They'll lose most likely. And as much as it sucks, without leagues in play and locked brackets someone will alwais take the L. Same goes for soccer leagues were let's say Barcelona matches twice a season other teams just freshly promoted who can't stand a chanche.

    There's to be a loser somewhere and a winner. But alas, your post is weird.
  • GOT_BOOSTGOT_BOOST Posts: 24
    DaleMangu wrote: »
    How will this season be fixed? I think same rewards all across the board. People spend money on this game and its unfair to have this kind of disadvantage.

    That would be awesome LOL.
    I doubt Kabam would do that, but it would show good faith that they're trying to rectify the issue.
  • GOT_BOOSTGOT_BOOST Posts: 24
    Vale84 wrote: »
    GOT_BOOST wrote: »
    Fact: Alliances that were deemed to have cheated lost season points and AW rating.

    Problem: AW rating reduction gives those alliances (ones that were deemed cheaters) matches in bracket that they don't belong in.

    Example: A Master's bracket alliance VS a Platinum 3 bracket alliance DUE TO AW RATING.

    Solution: Severely reduce the season points enough to drop them out of a bracket - otherwise you end up screwing everyone else that were not deemed to cheat. Where is the compensation to the alliances that suffered the loss due to cheaters???

    3100+ rating is still master rank 11-20 rating. I don't understand how said penalized allies can match platinum 3. That said, it's been proven already in early season that there are indeed master allies who matched late to find weaker opponents. Even the other ally punished had their rating gone down to platinum 1 at most. So unless said allies matched super late risking to lose a war, it's unlikely that will happen.

    Of course, alghorythm can alwais f up and match you. But matching a penalized ally or a legit master one isn't gonna change much for the platinum 3 one. They'll lose most likely. And as much as it sucks, without leagues in play and locked brackets someone will alwais take the L. Same goes for soccer leagues were let's say Barcelona matches twice a season other teams just freshly promoted who can't stand a chanche.

    There's to be a loser somewhere and a winner. But alas, your post is weird.

    My point is not to drop AW rating... just tank their season points. I'm sure there will be a few people in here that can chime in - I know there are alliances are facing opponent outside of their league DUE to master bracket alliances taking a hit on their AW rating
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,983 Guardian
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    I never thought of that. What “if” your alliance does a bunch of cheating strategy’s in mid season, because you know Kabam will punish you, and drop your rating and points, but in doing so, allows you to have much easier match ups, at the the end of the season, therefore solidifying your chance to get back up to Master or P1 ranking with very little difficulty.

    It ingenious. Use Kabam to help you!
    Wish I would have thought about that at the beginning of the season.

    That's illogical. If this worked, the correct strategy would be to deliberately lose while scoring as much points as possible, so you keep earning points while also losing war rating. But it doesn't generally work mathematically: you generally end up earning fewer points doing this.

    This effect does exist, but it doesn't completely override the penalties being assessed. Instead, it makes the penalties lower than they appear to be on the surface, sometimes dramatically so. It isn't actually better for an alliance to get penalized, but the actual penalty could be lowered in effect by enough to make it an attractive risk to take. That's a problem unto itself.

    It can work, if Kabam doesn’t drop your points by that much. In theory, you can earn it back with all the easy match ups you will have once they drop you 1-2 tiers down.

    I did the math recently: it doesn't work for any of the higher tiers of AW where this is likely to be a problem. The simplified version of the math is that basically dropping tier at best can make you go from winning half the time to winning all the time, and the extra points that generates is lower than the effects of lowering multiplier when you drop tiers, for all likely reasonable cases of penalty.

    Again: the penalty never turns into a bonus, but the penalty is lower than it appears to be by a significant margin.
  • GOT_BOOSTGOT_BOOST Posts: 24
    Vale84 wrote: »
    GOT_BOOST wrote: »
    Fact: Alliances that were deemed to have cheated lost season points and AW rating.

    Problem: AW rating reduction gives those alliances (ones that were deemed cheaters) matches in bracket that they don't belong in.

    Example: A Master's bracket alliance VS a Platinum 3 bracket alliance DUE TO AW RATING.

    Solution: Severely reduce the season points enough to drop them out of a bracket - otherwise you end up screwing everyone else that were not deemed to cheat. Where is the compensation to the alliances that suffered the loss due to cheaters???

    3100+ rating is still master rank 11-20 rating. I don't understand how said penalized allies can match platinum 3. That said, it's been proven already in early season that there are indeed master allies who matched late to find weaker opponents. Even the other ally punished had their rating gone down to platinum 1 at most. So unless said allies matched super late risking to lose a war, it's unlikely that will happen.

    Of course, alghorythm can alwais f up and match you. But matching a penalized ally or a legit master one isn't gonna change much for the platinum 3 one. They'll lose most likely. And as much as it sucks, without leagues in play and locked brackets someone will alwais take the L. Same goes for soccer leagues were let's say Barcelona matches twice a season other teams just freshly promoted who can't stand a chanche.

    There's to be a loser somewhere and a winner. But alas, your post is weird.

    My point is to NOT drop their AW rating..... but tank their season points.
    I'm certain some will chime in and show that they're facing an opponent outside of their bracket (more than just 1 bracket of separation).
  • ezmoneyezmoney Posts: 208
    Kabam needs to perma ban the cheaters accounts and strip any rewards from the alliance for the current season. If this occurs I guarantee people stop this garbage. Get with the program Kabam and show us that you're serious about stopping the cheaters
  • KwAmOnKwAmOn Posts: 92
    I agree with OP @GOT_BOOST , and in light of the recent proof out there, I believe excluding them from Season is step 1; a Badge to mark that alliance (not the players) to make it public in the Alliance Wall is a parallel step 2, and if a player is consistently running as officer or player in alliances that end up in this scenario, then make permanent bank accounts. Only removing toxic players that allow for this behaviour and actions is the way to keep them from trying or continuing.
  • ezmoney wrote: »
    Kabam needs to perma ban the cheaters accounts and strip any rewards from the alliance for the current season. If this occurs I guarantee people stop this garbage. Get with the program Kabam and show us that you're serious about stopping the cheaters

    It appears to me that there is one underlying principle across all of Kabam's decisions (whether to fix certain bugs, etc.): how much revenue they can generate.

    Although perm bans would be the right thing to do, I'm wondering if Kabam does not do that because that would eliminate a source of revenue from those banned alliances. For instance, if an alliance is caught cheating and is therefore banned from season, then Kabam will not receive revenue from that alliance. However, if the alliance can still participate in the season (even though this is not the right thing to do), then Kabam could still generate revenue from that alliance (and maybe even more since they are desperately trying to compensate by climbing up the ranks faster).

    Kabam, please tell us that this is not true by providing your specific rationale as to why you have been refusing to do the right thing in this regard. The problem has been going on for quite some time, and the community has been expressing its concerns. It also deals with the most rewarded part of the game, so this is a very critical issue/question. So please respond accordingly. Thank you.
  • ezmoneyezmoney Posts: 208
    ezmoney wrote: »
    Kabam needs to perma ban the cheaters accounts and strip any rewards from the alliance for the current season. If this occurs I guarantee people stop this garbage. Get with the program Kabam and show us that you're serious about stopping the cheaters

    It appears to me that there is one underlying principle across all of Kabam's decisions (whether to fix certain bugs, etc.): how much revenue they can generate.

    Although perm bans would be the right thing to do, I'm wondering if Kabam does not do that because that would eliminate a source of revenue from those banned alliances. For instance, if an alliance is caught cheating and is therefore banned from season, then Kabam will not receive revenue from that alliance. However, if the alliance can still participate in the season (even though this is not the right thing to do), then Kabam could still generate revenue from that alliance (and maybe even more since they are desperately trying to compensate by climbing up the ranks faster).

    Kabam, please tell us that this is not true by providing your specific rationale as to why you have been refusing to do the right thing in this regard. The problem has been going on for quite some time, and the community has been expressing its concerns. It also deals with the most rewarded part of the game, so this is a very critical issue/question. So please respond accordingly. Thank you.

    Well the rest of us legit players pay as well ... if they're going to allow people to continually cheat and still reward them then they need to start giving legit players refunds. The slap on the wrist BS isnt going to appease the legit population.
  • MkdemariaMkdemaria Posts: 110
    Cheaters should not get Season 2 rewards.
  • ArtttonArttton Posts: 59
    GOT_BOOST wrote: »
    Fact: Alliances that were deemed to have cheated lost season points and AW rating.

    Problem: AW rating reduction gives those alliances (ones that were deemed cheaters) matches in bracket that they don't belong in.

    Example: A Master's bracket alliance VS a Platinum 3 bracket alliance DUE TO AW RATING.

    Solution: Severely reduce the season points enough to drop them out of a bracket - otherwise you end up screwing everyone else that were not deemed to cheat. Where is the compensation to the alliances that suffered the loss due to cheaters???

    u1cg6cvejj0z.jpeg

    Kabam did nothing about it, this alliance stated it.
  • Vale84Vale84 Posts: 308 ★★★
    Arttton wrote: »
    GOT_BOOST wrote: »
    Fact: Alliances that were deemed to have cheated lost season points and AW rating.

    Problem: AW rating reduction gives those alliances (ones that were deemed cheaters) matches in bracket that they don't belong in.

    Example: A Master's bracket alliance VS a Platinum 3 bracket alliance DUE TO AW RATING.

    Solution: Severely reduce the season points enough to drop them out of a bracket - otherwise you end up screwing everyone else that were not deemed to cheat. Where is the compensation to the alliances that suffered the loss due to cheaters???

    u1cg6cvejj0z.jpeg

    Kabam did nothing about it, this alliance stated it.

    why are you talking of season1 which ended ages ago? Everyone did so in season 1 along piloting and even modding, kabam started monitoring in season 2, and s1 has to be considered the first attempt where ofc they collected data in order to get better results in the following ones. You're being just bantering what's been said several times.
  • Jskeete54Jskeete54 Posts: 46
    My gold 1 alliance rank 30 just lost to a platinum 3 rank 108 alliance that was punished for cheating and was dropped down from high platinum 2. We know this because we asked them and they told us they were dropped down and they were close to hitting platinum 1. How is that fair @Kabam Miike ? The lower tiered alliances are being punished as well. Not to mention it completely ruined our chances at making platinum 3. Punished alliances should lose season points not war rating and maybe receive a 1 week war ban. Lowering the war rating affects the alliances matching at that lower war ratings.
  • DukeZmanDukeZman Posts: 600 ★★★
    All Kabam have done, is give these top tier alliances a chance to win more shards, because they are now facing much easier alliances, since their war rating and season points are much lower to match those in platinum 2 or 3. This is the so called balance to the game. Punish them by giving them an opportunity to gain more additional shards by beating up weaker alliances.

    Get ready alliances on platinum 2 or 3, to face off against ones from Master. Hehe.

    Just a thought: maybe bumping them down is the right action because they aren't really as good as they appeared. They were only Master because they could cheat, but without cheating, their skill level is really more like Plat 2? And so it balances out? Just a thought.
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