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The new end date will be May 1st.
All or nothing ai in arena
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Posts: 4,492 ★★★★★
Any tips on managing it better? I try to bait but often the ai just refuses too use there specials
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Comments
Try knocking them down with a heavy or special; or just holding block. When they are near 20% health try to finish them off with a combo into a special.
Try just blocking until they cycle themselves into a special.
Also you can survive alot of s3s unless youre champ is significantly weaker. Dont make the mistake most do and dash back into the corner trying to get a special out of them while losing health lettting the special kill you once they do use it.
I almost pulled my hair out trying to Bait a special from the AI in the epic occult lab. The AI was not going to give it up. Eventually I said f this game grandma and quit lol.
Can you elaborate on this, please? From experience, I have never, ever seen an enemy throw a special when I'm just standing and blocking*; quite the opposite, in fact. I will hold block when I'm trying to push an enemy to an L2 instead of having them throw an L1. This technique was crucial at NYCC during the Venom fight on day 1 when using Morningstar. You wanted Venom to throw an L2 so all his buffs get converted to furies. MS would "borrow" these furies to strengthen her attack and she'd punish with her own L2 to finish him off. To accomplish this, I'd hold block during all of Venom's openings to ensure he'd never throw his L1.
Empirically, the way to bait specials is just the opposite...you want to stand idle without blocking, evading until the special comes out. When I figured out that doing this was the way to bait specials, Hyperion turned from a nightmare of a fight to just another fight. I used to block when baiting and he'd get to an L3 very often.
To the OP's question, there are some Arena fights that seem to be All or Nothing...usually these are "Death Squads", but it can happen elsewhere on rare occasion. I've been in fights spending several minutes attempting to bait an L2 only to finally push them to an L3 where they throw it IMMEDIATELY. Very frustrating. My advice is that if you are in the range of getting Death Squads in arena (Rounds 10-16) and are using 4* champs to fight them, bring champs that can either control power (Vision, Dormammu, Magik) or tank L3's (Gwenpool, Iceman, Luke Cage). Or just bring champs that have a high likelihood of killing the enemy before they can get to 3 bars of power (Starlord, Archangel, Stark Spidey).
*To be clear, I'm not counting Unblockable Special nodes, which behave differently.
I caught that. I'm not sure what makes you think I didn't.
The question still remains (I'm genuinely curious). You said that you hold block until they throw a special. I've NEVER had this work for me. Can you provide a video or some explanation so I can see what I'm doing wrong?
Test if for yourself. I regualry have the AoN AI in arenas throw a special attack into my block. If I think about it when I face that specific AI I will gladly post a video.
My post specifically mentions the arena fights where "AoN Death Squads" will be found (10-16) and offers some suggested champs that will help with them. I offered my experience with baiting specials both in arenas and other areas of the game (which tend to be pretty consistent throughout) in an attempt to help the OP. I read your comment and asked about it when the blocking portion flies in the face of the mechanics I've come to learn about this game and asked politely for you to expand on it.
I'm not sure what I said that deserved the snarky responses, but nonetheless I look forward to the video.
I'm not trolling. The NYCC bit was a specific example to illustrate the way I've known the system to work. I could have used any random arena champ who's L2 is preferable to the L1 to suggest a reason someone might need to push an enemy to an L2 over an L1, but the NYCC one is timely considering how many people were there, the recent update to Venom, and it gives a very specific reason why the L2 is so preferable. I didn't get into the arena portion until the 3rd paragraph. I'm not sure which portion prompted the surly responses. I gently asked for an explanation and even attempted to be polite by throwing in a "please".
In any case, I appreciate the video. I've really never seen that before. I tend to plan around Death Squads in arena, so I rarely see them and likely won't get a chance to test this, but I will keep it in mind and try it out if an enemy gets a little stubborn.
Your response to me does not cover the specific AI up for discussion which i why i laugh and point out you ignored the context which appears to be done simply in an effort to start an argument as your last paragraph ignore’s my statement you argued with and actually adresses arena for the first time (rather than NYCC BtB AI). Your ego is preventing your ability to comprehend, eyes wide shut.
I see you’re still relying on AI outside of the specific AI being referenced in this thread. There are different AIs employed in various parts of the game. Again you cannot compare NYCC BtB AI to arena “AoN AI”.
My man, I wasn't attempting to start an argument. I'm still not.
You stated that something happens in the game that I had never seen before. I didn't say I didn't believe you. Not everyone who asks for clarification is calling you out; some just wish to learn more. I was curious to see it, so I politely asked for a video. You provided it. I said that I appreciated the effort. I now have something new to try in the game. As for ego, I'm not sure where that's coming from. I was trying to be helpful to the OP and trying to learn something at the same time.
I can see that for whatever reason you don't like me, so I'll do my best not to ask you anything here anymore. I wish you the best.
Hawkeye, Dormmamu, magik, Rogue , Iceman, gwenpool, etc.....
In my experience, all of these things are true, but not all the time. There isn't a special "arena AI" that is different from the AI in other parts of the game, but a long while ago Kabam made a change to the way the AI works where I believe they added additional tuning parameters to the AI profile. Think of the AI as one "brain" that gets loaded with "preferences." They have a preference for blocking, a preference for throwing special one, etc. These preferences are I believe what we are modifying when we use something like Sparky's taunt.
What makes the AI behavior in the arena seem unique is that in the arena the game "randomizes" these profiles far more than in other parts of the game where they are more hand tweaked to correspond to difficulty levels. So we can see stuff we don't ordinarily see far more often. For example, I think some of the "all or nothing" behavior that players see is actually a huge anti-preference for special two. For such a critter, if you push them past sp1 thinking you can still bait sp2, you could find yourself in a pseudo-AoN. You don't normally see that in other parts of the game, but I've seen cases where an arena critter will easily take the bait on SP1, but simply refuse to throw SP2.
Another thing is that there is a dynamic element to the AI profiles. The longer you don't attack, or the longer you *do* keep attacking, or the longer you do or do not throw specials can all affect the future behavior of the critters. I've seen nodes that appeared to be all or nothing, and I just kept blocking and evading to keep the match alive, and then either they eventually throw a special or I push them to SP3 and they throw it. Once they do, they often change behavior and start throwing specials normally, as if the act of throwing a special encouraged them to do it even more.
Addressing that topic directly, I've seen the AI throw specials into block. However, I do know the AI is "reluctant" to do so. I've seen the AI literally stand there and bleed to death while holding two bars of power, because I am standing and holding block. I think there is a range aspect to this: how far away you are affects the critter behavior to some degree and can influence if and when they attempt specials when you're blocking.
I believe that almost anything we see in the arena *can* happen elsewhere. It is just that the probability of seeing it can be extremely low if the particular profile you are facing makes the odds of that behavior happening very low. In fact, I don't believe there is a true "AoN" arena behavior. I think it is just that sometimes you're facing a champion that has a 1% chance to throw special 1 and a 2% chance to throw special 2, and almost no one chooses to draw out the fight long enough to see them throw those.
This is a very common mistake. Especially for power gaining champions. If a champion has power gain, their special three attack tends to be weaker than average. For some reason, I see a lot of people afraid to take a special three from Hyperion, because they think all his specials hit super hard. But unless he has furies stacked or a lot of cosmic charges, his SP3 is much weaker than you'd normally expect from the average champion. But this is so ingrained in some people's minds than the last time I said this specifically about Hyperion, three separate players replied to laugh at the notion, even though this is something you can trivially check in-game.
If the opponent is blocking constantly or just standing, just do a heavy. They will eventually hit you with a special but this will get the specials to be baitable.