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The math on featured five star crystals

God Tier: Domino, CA IW, Corvus, AA, Ghost Rider, Hyperion, Magik,
Demi-god tier: Massacre, Wasp, IM IW, Hulk, Hela, Ultron
Mid-tier: Winter Soldier, SM MM, Loki, Psylocke
Garbage tier: Colossus, BP CW, Falcon, Juggernaut, Groot, Vulture, Iron Patriot

24 heroes total. 7/24 chance of god tier, 6/24 chance of Demi god. So better than a 50 percent chance of god or semi god tier champ

Is it worth the extra shards? Or just too risky?
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Comments

  • B_Dizzle_01B_Dizzle_01 Posts: 1,637 ★★★
    Depends on what rng they are using and how many slots they have selected for each champ. Even though the drop is a random number it doesn’t mean they are all the same. There could be 20 options for falcon and all the garbage tiers there. And only 1-2 selections for domino.

    Mynalliance we had 4 people do it recently the same day. Me included. I got falcon. Then there was a groot and colossus. Then a Corvus. Much lower then the average in the pool. I won’t be doing featured again.
  • EvilEmpireEvilEmpire Posts: 639 ★★★
    Worth it, so much top shelf stuff in that. Basic pool is about 80-90% garbage (seems like 95% most of the time tho) based on your personal preferences your a coin flip chance at something you want.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 15,440 Guardian
    Depends on what rng they are using and how many slots they have selected for each champ. Even though the drop is a random number it doesn’t mean they are all the same. There could be 20 options for falcon and all the garbage tiers there. And only 1-2 selections for domino.

    They've been repeatedly stated to be the same within the same rarity tier. I'm not sure why anyone would choose to not believe that but still believe the drops are random generated.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 15,440 Guardian
    MavRCK_ wrote: »
    These current feature crystals have been a terrible change from the old feature crystals. The drop rates are too low to help players make improvements to their roster at the expense of the extra shards spent. This game is penalizing smart skillful resource management and rewarding luck. A consequence of this is the huge turnover in alliances which favour those players who were more often now simply lucky rather than previously skillful in improving their roster.

    A *fair* comparison would have the current featured crystal situation be much better. The original featured crystal was created in an environment where 5* shards were extremely difficult to get. It took literally months or longer to get enough for a single featured crystal. Most people are making unfair comparisons to the situation where the 5* shards were increased but the 5* featured hadn't yet been changed to the current one. That situation was never going to last: it was a temporary transition between 5* champs being extremely constrained to one where 5* champions are much more common. I would much rather have the current situation than the old one, and I think anyone who pines for the old featured should have to live under the constraints on 5* shards that existed when that crystal was created.
  • BadroseBadrose Posts: 773 ★★★
    God Tier: Domino, CA IW, Corvus, AA, Ghost Rider, Hyperion, Magik,
    Demi-god tier: Massacre, Wasp, IM IW, Hulk, Hela, Ultron
    Mid-tier: Winter Soldier, SM MM, Loki, Psylocke
    Garbage tier: Colossus, BP CW, Falcon, Juggernaut, Groot, Vulture, Iron Patriot

    24 heroes total. 7/24 chance of god tier, 6/24 chance of Demi god. So better than a 50 percent chance of god or semi god tier champ

    Is it worth the extra shards? Or just too risky?

    Too risky IMO. The number of crappy champs (and why not, even champs you don't need because you already have them) is too damn high. For this crystal, I'd be happy with only 4 champs out of 24
  • Sairam44Sairam44 Posts: 398
    pzodgcrbltii.jpg
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,080 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Depends on what rng they are using and how many slots they have selected for each champ. Even though the drop is a random number it doesn’t mean they are all the same. There could be 20 options for falcon and all the garbage tiers there. And only 1-2 selections for domino.

    They've been repeatedly stated to be the same within the same rarity tier. I'm not sure why anyone would choose to not believe that but still believe the drops are random generated.

    Because they didn't get what they wanted so the only explanation it could possibly be is a conspiracy.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,080 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    MavRCK_ wrote: »
    These current feature crystals have been a terrible change from the old feature crystals. The drop rates are too low to help players make improvements to their roster at the expense of the extra shards spent. This game is penalizing smart skillful resource management and rewarding luck. A consequence of this is the huge turnover in alliances which favour those players who were more often now simply lucky rather than previously skillful in improving their roster.

    A *fair* comparison would have the current featured crystal situation be much better. The original featured crystal was created in an environment where 5* shards were extremely difficult to get. It took literally months or longer to get enough for a single featured crystal. Most people are making unfair comparisons to the situation where the 5* shards were increased but the 5* featured hadn't yet been changed to the current one. That situation was never going to last: it was a temporary transition between 5* champs being extremely constrained to one where 5* champions are much more common. I would much rather have the current situation than the old one, and I think anyone who pines for the old featured should have to live under the constraints on 5* shards that existed when that crystal was created.

    You can open 5*s weekly if you grind and even every other week pretty much just playing frequently these days. Anyone who thinks the old crystal system should still exist with today's shard availability is ridiculous.
  • FixxxFixxx Posts: 234
    God Tier: Domino, CA IW, Corvus, AA, Ghost Rider, Hyperion, Magik,
    Demi-god tier: Massacre, Wasp, IM IW, Hulk, Hela, Ultron
    Mid-tier: Winter Soldier, SM MM, Loki, Psylocke
    Garbage tier: Colossus, BP CW, Falcon, Juggernaut, Groot, Vulture, Iron Patriot

    24 heroes total. 7/24 chance of god tier, 6/24 chance of Demi god. So better than a 50 percent chance of god or semi god tier champ

    Is it worth the extra shards? Or just too risky?

    It's better to line up champs as Champs you'd like to get and Champs you'd hate to get, see where there are more champs, then if there are more of the latter you decide if you can live with getting a champ you detest
  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 4,176 ★★★★★
    God Tier: Domino, CA IW, Corvus, AA, Ghost Rider, Hyperion, Magik,
    Demi-god tier: Massacre, Wasp, IM IW, Hulk, Hela, Ultron
    Mid-tier: Winter Soldier, SM MM, Loki, Psylocke
    Garbage tier: Colossus, BP CW, Falcon, Juggernaut, Groot, Vulture, Iron Patriot

    24 heroes total. 7/24 chance of god tier, 6/24 chance of Demi god. So better than a 50 percent chance of god or semi god tier champ

    Is it worth the extra shards? Or just too risky?

    Like @MavRCK_ said.

    Not just 'is this a God-Tier champion?', but "will this champion significantly change my capabilities?". So Corvus is great, but if you already have him Awakened, getting a few extra Sig levels isn't going to be a game-changer. 5-star Hulk is good, but if you already have a maxed 5/50 will the five star champion change much for you? On the other hand, if you already have Psylocke, she's a decent champ who gets a lot better with her Sig, so she is more valuable if you already have her.

    So 'The Math' is very individual. It usually leans in favour of the Featured crystal; but that may not be true for everyone.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 6,695 ★★★★★
    God Tier: Domino, CA IW, Corvus, AA, Ghost Rider, Hyperion, Magik,
    Demi-god tier: Massacre, Wasp, IM IW, Hulk, Hela, Ultron
    Mid-tier: Winter Soldier, SM MM, Loki, Psylocke
    Garbage tier: Colossus, BP CW, Falcon, Juggernaut, Groot, Vulture, Iron Patriot

    24 heroes total. 7/24 chance of god tier, 6/24 chance of Demi god. So better than a 50 percent chance of god or semi god tier champ

    Is it worth the extra shards? Or just too risky?

    Like @MavRCK_ said.

    Not just 'is this a God-Tier champion?', but "will this champion significantly change my capabilities?". So Corvus is great, but if you already have him Awakened, getting a few extra Sig levels isn't going to be a game-changer. 5-star Hulk is good, but if you already have a maxed 5/50 will the five star champion change much for you? On the other hand, if you already have Psylocke, she's a decent champ who gets a lot better with her Sig, so she is more valuable if you already have her.

    So 'The Math' is very individual. It usually leans in favour of the Featured crystal; but that may not be true for everyone.

    100% correct. Of the “god-tier,” I have a duped AA, which means I don’t want him. Period. Moving the needle for me would be a few of the champs listed at the top. I do have some of the others listed below top tier unduped (please please Kabam don’t take that as an indication that I want them), so a dupe might be a modest improvement to them as arena fodder. And like many others, I have most of the low tier champs in some form and pulling them would likely trigger a honest re-evaluation of my MCoC play time (as just happened to a veteran friend who crushed his Sym quest excitement by duping his Falcon again).

    But for a newer player, pulling something like a WS dupe could be a game changer. Just depends...

    Dr. Zola
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,080 ★★★★★
    God Tier: Domino, CA IW, Corvus, AA, Ghost Rider, Hyperion, Magik,
    Demi-god tier: Massacre, Wasp, IM IW, Hulk, Hela, Ultron
    Mid-tier: Winter Soldier, SM MM, Loki, Psylocke
    Garbage tier: Colossus, BP CW, Falcon, Juggernaut, Groot, Vulture, Iron Patriot

    24 heroes total. 7/24 chance of god tier, 6/24 chance of Demi god. So better than a 50 percent chance of god or semi god tier champ

    Is it worth the extra shards? Or just too risky?

    Like @MavRCK_ said.

    Not just 'is this a God-Tier champion?', but "will this champion significantly change my capabilities?". So Corvus is great, but if you already have him Awakened, getting a few extra Sig levels isn't going to be a game-changer. 5-star Hulk is good, but if you already have a maxed 5/50 will the five star champion change much for you? On the other hand, if you already have Psylocke, she's a decent champ who gets a lot better with her Sig, so she is more valuable if you already have her.

    So 'The Math' is very individual. It usually leans in favour of the Featured crystal; but that may not be true for everyone.

    I opened featured last batch (9 in total counting the one from sym) until I ended up duping imiw from a fgmc. I already had hype, AA, corvus, GR, and Ultron duped at that point. It wasn't worth it anymore chasing just a domino or magik dupe or capiw pull.
  • DrZola wrote: »
    God Tier: Domino, CA IW, Corvus, AA, Ghost Rider, Hyperion, Magik,
    Demi-god tier: Massacre, Wasp, IM IW, Hulk, Hela, Ultron
    Mid-tier: Winter Soldier, SM MM, Loki, Psylocke
    Garbage tier: Colossus, BP CW, Falcon, Juggernaut, Groot, Vulture, Iron Patriot

    24 heroes total. 7/24 chance of god tier, 6/24 chance of Demi god. So better than a 50 percent chance of god or semi god tier champ

    Is it worth the extra shards? Or just too risky?

    Like @MavRCK_ said.

    Not just 'is this a God-Tier champion?', but "will this champion significantly change my capabilities?". So Corvus is great, but if you already have him Awakened, getting a few extra Sig levels isn't going to be a game-changer. 5-star Hulk is good, but if you already have a maxed 5/50 will the five star champion change much for you? On the other hand, if you already have Psylocke, she's a decent champ who gets a lot better with her Sig, so she is more valuable if you already have her.

    So 'The Math' is very individual. It usually leans in favour of the Featured crystal; but that may not be true for everyone.

    100% correct. Of the “god-tier,” I have a duped AA, which means I don’t want him. Period. Moving the needle for me would be a few of the champs listed at the top. I do have some of the others listed below top tier unduped (please please Kabam don’t take that as an indication that I want them), so a dupe might be a modest improvement to them as arena fodder. And like many others, I have most of the low tier champs in some form and pulling them would likely trigger a honest re-evaluation of my MCoC play time (as just happened to a veteran friend who crushed his Sym quest excitement by duping his Falcon again).

    But for a newer player, pulling something like a WS dupe could be a game changer. Just depends...

    Dr. Zola

    I'm gonna need to reevaluate... Finished symbiote difficulty in one evening and got a basic 5* and the featured one. Pulled Spider Gwen dupe and Colossus dupe. I haven't been happy with a pull for many months now.
  • MavRCK_MavRCK_ Posts: 433 ★★★
    edited October 2018
    DrZola wrote: »

    100% correct. Of the “god-tier,” I have a duped AA, which means I don’t want him. Period. Moving the needle for me would be a few of the champs listed at the top. I do have some of the others listed below top tier unduped (please please Kabam don’t take that as an indication that I want them), so a dupe might be a modest improvement to them as arena fodder. And like many others, I have most of the low tier champs in some form and pulling them would likely trigger a honest re-evaluation of my MCoC play time (as just happened to a veteran friend who crushed his Sym quest excitement by duping his Falcon again).

    But for a newer player, pulling something like a WS dupe could be a game changer. Just depends...

    Dr. Zola

    You bring up the key point: veteran or end-game vs not. When Kabam says (1) they want AW to be the most competitive mode of the game and (2) that AW is too luck dependent on what champions someone gets, I think what the developers may fail to see is that it is their decision to change these feature crystals to the [Seatin quote] "luck pinyata" that they are now - and this disproportionately affects the veteran players working on key components of their roster.

    These low-% feature crystals have eliminated the previous solution of "less-low"%-feature crystals which when using probability and strategy solved this issue for veteran players. Now, look at the main alliances and how in the past 3 months low skilled both in play but also in resource management (ie. Not Brian Grant-type players) are trickling up into alliance war teams struggling to compete. It's a disaster. The kick rate / alliance turnover is monstrous.

    The game is now low-% RNG aka LUCK or pay to win. The feature crystals should be the old system where players make a distinct choice in sacrificing duplicates and 6* shards from duplicates versus increasing their probability to obtain a key roster component. This strategic choice is essentially gone from the game as it is.

    Luck vs Pay-to-win is a not imo an ideal way to set up the game. Let's focus on strategy. Players knowing that their money will help reward their strategy are more likely to spend on this game consistently - maybe that'll encourage change in this game development.
  • NamelezNamelez Posts: 992 ★★★
    Ultron is far from Demi God Tier
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,080 ★★★★★
    Namelez wrote: »
    Ultron is far from Demi God Tier

    Ultron is a great champ. Double regen for survivability and double immunities. He hits soft as hell but damage is not the only useful mechanic in this game. Ultron cleared a ton of biohazard/caltrops paths for me in act 5
  • mum_m2mum_m2 Posts: 1,776 ★★★★
    Short answer is no, it's not worth it

    Long answer includes a little math here.
    Basic crystal has roughly 110 champs in it (I believe it's 108)
    50 of those champs by your definition are demi god and above.
    That's a 46% chance of getting something good.

    13 of the 24 in the featured which is 54% of pulling something good at 1.5x the cost.

    So .46/1 > .54/1.5

    But that's not going to stop me from opening the features. For someone who's been playing the game a long time, I really need a champ who's useful. I'm going to take as many chances at a featured as possible to stay as competitive as possible.
  • allinashesallinashes Posts: 741 ★★★
    mum_m2 wrote: »
    Short answer is no, it's not worth it

    Long answer includes a little math here.
    Basic crystal has roughly 110 champs in it (I believe it's 108)
    50 of those champs by your definition are demi god and above.
    That's a 46% chance of getting something good.

    13 of the 24 in the featured which is 54% of pulling something good at 1.5x the cost.

    So .46/1 > .54/1.5

    But that's not going to stop me from opening the features. For someone who's been playing the game a long time, I really need a champ who's useful. I'm going to take as many chances at a featured as possible to stay as competitive as possible.

    Game changers, exactly why I open featureds. Chances of getting a champ who radically alters your game path is much better with featured. Opened 30+ basics for some good champs and tons of bad, great including Magik and Angela who got me thru tons of content.

    10 featureds and I got Domino X3 with Masacre and CG and within a month I'm Elders Bane and completed a very easy LoL run.

  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 6,695 ★★★★★
    Werewrym wrote: »
    DrZola wrote: »
    God Tier: Domino, CA IW, Corvus, AA, Ghost Rider, Hyperion, Magik,
    Demi-god tier: Massacre, Wasp, IM IW, Hulk, Hela, Ultron
    Mid-tier: Winter Soldier, SM MM, Loki, Psylocke
    Garbage tier: Colossus, BP CW, Falcon, Juggernaut, Groot, Vulture, Iron Patriot

    24 heroes total. 7/24 chance of god tier, 6/24 chance of Demi god. So better than a 50 percent chance of god or semi god tier champ

    Is it worth the extra shards? Or just too risky?

    Like @MavRCK_ said.

    Not just 'is this a God-Tier champion?', but "will this champion significantly change my capabilities?". So Corvus is great, but if you already have him Awakened, getting a few extra Sig levels isn't going to be a game-changer. 5-star Hulk is good, but if you already have a maxed 5/50 will the five star champion change much for you? On the other hand, if you already have Psylocke, she's a decent champ who gets a lot better with her Sig, so she is more valuable if you already have her.

    So 'The Math' is very individual. It usually leans in favour of the Featured crystal; but that may not be true for everyone.

    100% correct. Of the “god-tier,” I have a duped AA, which means I don’t want him. Period. Moving the needle for me would be a few of the champs listed at the top. I do have some of the others listed below top tier unduped (please please Kabam don’t take that as an indication that I want them), so a dupe might be a modest improvement to them as arena fodder. And like many others, I have most of the low tier champs in some form and pulling them would likely trigger a honest re-evaluation of my MCoC play time (as just happened to a veteran friend who crushed his Sym quest excitement by duping his Falcon again).

    But for a newer player, pulling something like a WS dupe could be a game changer. Just depends...

    Dr. Zola

    I'm gonna need to reevaluate... Finished symbiote difficulty in one evening and got a basic 5* and the featured one. Pulled Spider Gwen dupe and Colossus dupe. I haven't been happy with a pull for many months now.

    That might push me over the edge given my past 3 months.

    Dr. Zola
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 6,695 ★★★★★
    MavRCK_ wrote: »
    DrZola wrote: »

    100% correct. Of the “god-tier,” I have a duped AA, which means I don’t want him. Period. Moving the needle for me would be a few of the champs listed at the top. I do have some of the others listed below top tier unduped (please please Kabam don’t take that as an indication that I want them), so a dupe might be a modest improvement to them as arena fodder. And like many others, I have most of the low tier champs in some form and pulling them would likely trigger a honest re-evaluation of my MCoC play time (as just happened to a veteran friend who crushed his Sym quest excitement by duping his Falcon again).

    But for a newer player, pulling something like a WS dupe could be a game changer. Just depends...

    Dr. Zola

    You bring up the key point: veteran or end-game vs not. When Kabam says (1) they want AW to be the most competitive mode of the game and (2) that AW is too luck dependent on what champions someone gets, I think what the developers may fail to see is that it is their decision to change these feature crystals to the [Seatin quote] "luck pinyata" that they are now - and this disproportionately affects the veteran players working on key components of their roster.

    These low-% feature crystals have eliminated the previous solution of "less-low"%-feature crystals which when using probability and strategy solved this issue for veteran players. Now, look at the main alliances and how in the past 3 months low skilled both in play but also in resource management (ie. Not Brian Grant-type players) are trickling up into alliance war teams struggling to compete. It's a disaster. The kick rate / alliance turnover is monstrous.

    The game is now low-% RNG aka LUCK or pay to win. The feature crystals should be the old system where players make a distinct choice in sacrificing duplicates and 6* shards from duplicates versus increasing their probability to obtain a key roster component. This strategic choice is essentially gone from the game as it is.

    Luck vs Pay-to-win is a not imo an ideal way to set up the game. Let's focus on strategy. Players knowing that their money will help reward their strategy are more likely to spend on this game consistently - maybe that'll encourage change in this game development.

    One other element: mass dilution in the basic crystal, which means there’s nowhere to run for veterans/endgame players. If you hit a string of bad RNG results, not only does your roster fail to advance/keep up, but so does basic game enjoyment. Negligible account benefit from spending is, in my opinion, a significant driver of the bitterness towards the game team that often erupts here and elsewhere.

    Dr. Zola
  • BuckeyeKPBuckeyeKP Posts: 693
    And when I pull Miles and double IP from featureds, I don't rank anyone decent for months at a time and the t4cc start to max out.
  • mum_m2mum_m2 Posts: 1,776 ★★★★
    Yeah @allinashes totally agree here. Mathematically, you get more value out of a basic, beginners needs to pump open those basics, but once you get a good team and flow of 5* shards, start opening features. Even the next one is VERY good as 13 of those champs are pretty darn useful. and even a few really good defenders as well.
  • How many 5 star heroes should I have (for arena grinding) before I start opening features? I just opened a basic five star crystal and got Loki, giving me Loki and Juggernaut as my five star mystic champs. Depressing only scratches the surface. Time for a few days off...
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 31,326 ★★★★★
    My perspective is actually the opposite of the usual. I consider whether I can accept rolling the least favorable outcome. If I'm willing to chance getting what I don't want, the other outcomes are all more favorable.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,080 ★★★★★
    How many 5 star heroes should I have (for arena grinding) before I start opening features? I just opened a basic five star crystal and got Loki, giving me Loki and Juggernaut as my five star mystic champs. Depressing only scratches the surface. Time for a few days off...

    Has more to do with how large of an actual useful roster do you have. I had 8-10 5* R4 or up champs before I started focusing on featureds
  • EnderDraco58EnderDraco58 Posts: 957 ★★
    I personally think that getting featured crystals is just a waste of 5k shards. It's only more disappointing to get a bad champ from a crystal you spent 5k extra shards on.

    If you have extra shards you can just waste, then go for it. The chance to get an awesome champ is higher, and whether or not that's worth those extra shards is up to you.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 6,695 ★★★★★
    edited October 2018
    Werewrym wrote: »
    DrZola wrote: »
    God Tier: Domino, CA IW, Corvus, AA, Ghost Rider, Hyperion, Magik,
    Demi-god tier: Massacre, Wasp, IM IW, Hulk, Hela, Ultron
    Mid-tier: Winter Soldier, SM MM, Loki, Psylocke
    Garbage tier: Colossus, BP CW, Falcon, Juggernaut, Groot, Vulture, Iron Patriot

    24 heroes total. 7/24 chance of god tier, 6/24 chance of Demi god. So better than a 50 percent chance of god or semi god tier champ

    Is it worth the extra shards? Or just too risky?

    Like @MavRCK_ said.

    Not just 'is this a God-Tier champion?', but "will this champion significantly change my capabilities?". So Corvus is great, but if you already have him Awakened, getting a few extra Sig levels isn't going to be a game-changer. 5-star Hulk is good, but if you already have a maxed 5/50 will the five star champion change much for you? On the other hand, if you already have Psylocke, she's a decent champ who gets a lot better with her Sig, so she is more valuable if you already have her.

    So 'The Math' is very individual. It usually leans in favour of the Featured crystal; but that may not be true for everyone.

    100% correct. Of the “god-tier,” I have a duped AA, which means I don’t want him. Period. Moving the needle for me would be a few of the champs listed at the top. I do have some of the others listed below top tier unduped (please please Kabam don’t take that as an indication that I want them), so a dupe might be a modest improvement to them as arena fodder. And like many others, I have most of the low tier champs in some form and pulling them would likely trigger a honest re-evaluation of my MCoC play time (as just happened to a veteran friend who crushed his Sym quest excitement by duping his Falcon again).

    But for a newer player, pulling something like a WS dupe could be a game changer. Just depends...

    Dr. Zola

    I'm gonna need to reevaluate... Finished symbiote difficulty in one evening and got a basic 5* and the featured one. Pulled Spider Gwen dupe and Colossus dupe. I haven't been happy with a pull for many months now.

    @Werewrym
    Update: Falcon dupe. 12th dupe out of past 15 5* pulls, and frankly, nearly all of those have been uselsss other than 6* shards. And the few new ones have been Miles, Sentry, KK.

    I’ve got more than re-evaluation going on. Fun to be a monstrous Summoner Symbiote for an event, but the account continues to tread water. And the game turns off for the weekend.

    Dr. Zola
  • ShrimkinsShrimkins Posts: 1,479 ★★★★
    Each feature crystal has different worth to different people. Personally I think the current one isn't worth it at all since I already have hype and AA duped and the new champs don't interest me all that much.

    Next feature is very tempting however...
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