Does the RNG get tilted against champs like BW on thorns?

I'll start with a question: Wasn't thorns calculated based on the damage OUR champion did, not the base damage output of the champ you're fighting? This seems like a totally different thorns damage than before but maybe I'm just used to Electro's thorn-like damage.

And like any old timer, I have 4* BW at Level 99 (because you had to when thorns were a thing all the time). They nerfed her signature ability to only not trigger abilities 69.99% of the time. You get another 15% if you're facing a science champ (Ghulk). I went in with the Quake synergy too (that's another 15% ability accuracy).

I know I'm not getting to 100% ability accuracy. If I read the ability description, I'd calculate my ability accuracy as:

(69.99 + 15) * 1.15 = 97.74% ability accuracy... (This is the way I read BW sig ability).

If I calculate my ability accuracy in the least favorable terms, it would be:

69.99 * 1.15 * 1.15 = 92.56% ability accuracy (It doesn't seem like BWs sig ability description supports this method.)

In olden times, days of yore, if you ran BW with the Quake synergy, you'd see almost zero damage from thorns. Was this because the thorns damage was calculated differently or because ability accuracy is a game mechanic we're not supposed to understand?

Comments

  • MMCskippyMMCskippy Posts: 313 ★★
    I'm testing play out by switching between BW and Domino.

    Domino appears to take less thorns damage than BW.

  • JRock808JRock808 Posts: 1,149 ★★★★
    edited December 2018
    I think armor and/or physical resist affects the damage you get back from thorns since it is physical damage.
  • DarthPhalDarthPhal Posts: 805 ★★★
    Quake Fu takes almost no thorn damage :)
  • MMCskippy wrote: »
    I know I'm not getting to 100% ability accuracy. If I read the ability description, I'd calculate my ability accuracy as:

    (69.99 + 15) * 1.15 = 97.74% ability accuracy... (This is the way I read BW sig ability).

    If I calculate my ability accuracy in the least favorable terms, it would be:

    69.99 * 1.15 * 1.15 = 92.56% ability accuracy (It doesn't seem like BWs sig ability description supports this method.)

    Technically the least favorable terms would be what many games sometimes refer to as "base buffs" or "linear buff stacking." In other words, the base is (for simplicity sake) 70%. The chance would be increased by 15% "of base chance" against Science, which would be 70 + (70 * 0.15) = 80.5%. And then the chance would be increased by 15% "of base chance" with the Quake synergy or 70 + (70 * 0.15) + (70 * 0.15) = 91%.

    Off hand, I don't remember how this works. This was discussed to death back in the day, but it has been a while since I've used Black Widow consistently enough to really remember clearly.

    As an aside, anything percentage related is generally extremely poorly documented and extremely inconsistently implemented in most video games. It seems to be one of a few very common soft spots game designers have essentially no ability to do in any consistently correct fashion (it is number three on my list of "things all game designers always get wrong, number one being "all things related to regeneration").
  • I looked back at my notes, and they say that the way this was discussed to work was that the Science class advantage factor is additive and on top, and the synergy is applied multiplicatively to the base itself. So the order of operations is 70% * 1.15 (synergy) + 15% (class advantage) = 95.5%.
  • MMCskippyMMCskippy Posts: 313 ★★
    @DNA3000 I seem to remember the same thing. (If I look at my posts from the modern forum and the old forum, I have a bunch of posts on how poorly ability descriptions are written. This is just the way things are and why I asked the question.)

    Keeping original champs with the mechanics that made them great has been a tough thing for this game. OG DD is one of the champs that still has their great sig ability and is a good example of what the expectations are around a maxed awakened ability as it gets close to 100%.

    If a Level 99 awakened OG DD didn't avoid projectiles, people would be up in arms. 95.5% isn't 99.99% for BW's sig ability so you can't expect to avoid everything, but you also wouldn't expect the statistical 4 fails for every 100 attempts to happen within the first 50 attempts every single match. After they reduced BW's damage output, the big advantage she has left is avoiding thorns or avoiding triggering abilities.

    Please keep in mind that I'm purposely running this beginning of this path over and over to grow my skills. So I'm running BW, Quake, Electra, Cap IW and IMIW as practice. If thorns isn't going away on uncollected, and I don't really have any 5* champs that avoid thorns damage, I need to practice to not run through all of my champs.

    Block penetration from a 6* champ to a 4* champ is no joke.
  • ThatGuy214ThatGuy214 Posts: 193
    Thorns damage is based on defenders attack rating so use burts damage champs
  • ThatGuy214ThatGuy214 Posts: 193
    Also split the path so you only do three fights per run helps alot
  • MMCskippy wrote: »
    Block penetration from a 6* champ to a 4* champ is no joke.

    Reminder: champs with higher challenge rating reduce opponent's block proficiency due to CR/DR, but your own challenge rating has no effect on this calculation. A 6* 1/25 softens a 4* 3/30's block exactly the same amount as a 5* 4/55s block. It is just that the 4/55 has a lot more health, so the damage through block will look proportionately higher verses the 3/30.
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