Re: NEW POLICY SURROUNDING SUMMONER NAMES

Regarding this:

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/84772/new-policy-surrounding-summoner-names

Our current war opponent has about 15 accounts starting with the name Grandmaster... then a name (i.e. joe fred al etc....)

In one specific battlegroup. All 10 have this name, this results in all defenders being identified as "Grandmaster ..." and removes the ability to scout by opponent in advance of entering the battlefield.

The point of this tactic is to "obfuscate their identity" as outlined in the new policy.

Is there a formal way to turn an alliance in for breaking the new policy.

@Kabam Miike

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Comments

  • SabrefencerSabrefencer Posts: 1,437
    Have you filed a support ticket in game? Forum mods can't help with this matter.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 5,659 ★★★★★
    I don't think it would count as long as each Grandmaster name had a number or additional name associated with it. That is much different than the "IlIl" names that were out there. I could also be wrong.
  • SabrefencerSabrefencer Posts: 1,437
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    I don't think it would count as long as each Grandmaster name had a number or additional name associated with it. That is much different than the "IlIl" names that were out there. I could also be wrong.

    Good point. It's the names with characters that are impossible to distinguish that look to be the issue (like l and I; the first a lower-case L and the second an upper-case i). Still couldn't hurt to submit a ticket with lots of info, though.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 2,322 ★★★★
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    I don't think it would count as long as each Grandmaster name had a number or additional name associated with it. That is much different than the "IlIl" names that were out there. I could also be wrong.
    These names have a nearly identical effect as the lllll names and are obviously being used to obfuscate identies to gain advantage in AW, the ally will be lucky to not suffer penalties once investigated.

    It works like llllll because only so many characters can be displayed on the tiles prior to getting to them and the field all says “Grandmast...” so players have no way to distinguish who is who just like llllll.
  • SummonerNRSummonerNR Posts: 1,283 ★★★
    They should add a way to link over to a defender's profile by clicking on any defensive node on the map (right now that only pops up the defensive buffs of that location). This would let you quickly go to the summoner profile of any defender on the map.

    To do this now you would have to remember the name as shown on map, switch over to your defense, go to their attack roster, and click on profile (a very long process, and which does not help the original poster as seen above because the identifying differences in all of their names get truncated off on the map screen and are not visible past the first 11 characters in name).
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,941 Guardian
    DrZola wrote: »
    Isn’t his point that the screen won’t hold characters beyond the phrase “Grandmaster”? That’s doing the effectively same thing as using “lllll” naming. I’m guessing his issue is you can’t tell which Grandmaster it is when the screen won’t display the rest of the name.

    Dr. Zola

    Yes, and while I cannot say whether they are doing it deliberately, I do believe this falls within the spirit of the rule that forbids using names which have the net effect of making players impossible to determine the identity of.
  • battleonebattleone Posts: 190
    Our war chat transcript confirms the deliberate nature/intentions. They are looking forward to their free 275 unit reversion to previous name.

    DNA3000 wrote: »
    DrZola wrote: »
    Isn’t his point that the screen won’t hold characters beyond the phrase “Grandmaster”? That’s doing the effectively same thing as using “lllll” naming. I’m guessing his issue is you can’t tell which Grandmaster it is when the screen won’t display the rest of the name.

    Dr. Zola

    Yes, and while I cannot say whether they are doing it deliberately, I do believe this falls within the spirit of the rule that forbids using names which have the net effect of making players impossible to determine the identity of.

  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 2,322 ★★★★
    edited January 31
    battleone wrote: »
    Our war chat transcript confirms the deliberate nature/intentions. They are looking forward to their free 275 unit reversion to previous name.

    DNA3000 wrote: »
    DrZola wrote: »
    Isn’t his point that the screen won’t hold characters beyond the phrase “Grandmaster”? That’s doing the effectively same thing as using “lllll” naming. I’m guessing his issue is you can’t tell which Grandmaster it is when the screen won’t display the rest of the name.

    Dr. Zola

    Yes, and while I cannot say whether they are doing it deliberately, I do believe this falls within the spirit of the rule that forbids using names which have the net effect of making players impossible to determine the identity of.
    Submit a detailed report outlining what is happening. I would recommend taking time to be as concise as possible so there is little room for confusion as to what is happeninng. Mention and file the chatlog as Kabam will have that record on their servers for review.

    They may be looking forward to a free name change but are also setting themselves up to be an example of how vigorously Kabam wishes to enforce “fair play”.
  • Jh_DezJh_Dez Posts: 932 ★★★
    In the pre fight screen, doesn't it show the players full name? You could use that since the names after grandmaster are different..
  • CobsCobs Posts: 102
    But tracking alliances defence and going to all your friends to get a teams defence is in the spirit of the game?
  • SummonerNRSummonerNR Posts: 1,283 ★★★
    @Jh_Dez , but if you want to scout ahead on different paths, you would not be at the pre-fight screen. Thus my idea of having a Summoner Profile link available when clicking on any defender node (in addition to just seeing node buffs when you click on a node).
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,941 Guardian
    battleone wrote: »
    Our war chat transcript confirms the deliberate nature/intentions. They are looking forward to their free 275 unit reversion to previous name.

    DNA3000 wrote: »
    DrZola wrote: »
    Isn’t his point that the screen won’t hold characters beyond the phrase “Grandmaster”? That’s doing the effectively same thing as using “lllll” naming. I’m guessing his issue is you can’t tell which Grandmaster it is when the screen won’t display the rest of the name.

    Dr. Zola

    Yes, and while I cannot say whether they are doing it deliberately, I do believe this falls within the spirit of the rule that forbids using names which have the net effect of making players impossible to determine the identity of.

    If they are doing this deliberately, I do not believe they are entitled to either free name change tokens or name reversions. The policy actually only says "any Summoner that has recently had their name changed to hide their identity will have their name reverted to their last available Summoner name, or a generic Summoner names if that is no longer available, in the coming days." That refers to players that changed their names immediately prior to the new policy, before Kabam made this illegal. If they did this now, after the policy was enacted, then the policy says this: "Additionally, Summoner names flagged in the future for attempting to obfuscate their identity will be forcibly changed in order to make them identifiable."

    I believe in this situation Kabam should forcibly change their names to readily identifiable generic names and force the players to expend their own resources to change them to whatever they want if they are unhappy with the generic names. That is basically what their policy states they will do.
  • UmbertoDelRioUmbertoDelRio Posts: 1,778 ★★★★
    I mean... I can totally see how that's frustrating, so don't get me wrong. I think you have a valid point here, at least to some extend.
    On the other hand, it's pretty damn creative as a strategy. For that alone I'd feel uncomfortable with demanding a harsh punishment.
  • "hey let's do that llllllllllll thing but with a different name. That makes it totally different and doesn't go against the rules at all"
    "GENIUS BRO LET'S DO IT"
    😂😂😂
  • SarcasticTaurusSarcasticTaurus Posts: 366 ★★
    Someone's salty. Should have gotten Scouter Lens mastery :D :D
  • PaytoPlayPaytoPlay Posts: 763 ★★★
    This is an easy fix on kabam side just limit name lengths or display full name when clicked on node.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 2,322 ★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    I believe in this situation Kabam should forcibly change their names to readily identifiable generic names and force the players to expend their own resources to change them to whatever they want if they are unhappy with the generic names. That is basically what their policy states they will do.
    While I agree that, at a minimum. the suggestion is applicaible I would think the policy could be considered revised given futher posts on AW. Namely https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/101768/developers-thoughts-improving-alliance-wars#latest
    Issue 2: Unfair Play in Alliance Wars

    This issue is integral to the mode. Alliance Wars is a highly competitive mode, and our goal is to make it the MOST competitive mode in the game, so fairness is paramount. No Alliance should feel that they can play their best, and fairest, but be let down when another Alliance does not play fair, and beats them, or 2 Alliances collude to manipulate the standings.

    Solution 2: Improved Methods to Identify Offenders, More Severe Punishments, Matchmaking Improvements

    To ensure this mode is fair, we need to improve how we find offending Summoners, and ensure that we take quick and decisive action against them. In the past, we’ve penalized Alliances for the actions of individuals. Moving forward, we will be focusing on the individual culprits, but will still take action on Alliances that make use of these illegitimate methods.
  • Cranmer00Cranmer00 Posts: 487 ★★
    Isn’t the point of them being hidden as defenders tho is to not know who they are... if kabam wanted u to know every defender, they would show the picture of them. Use your scouting lens mastery, that’s what it is there for.

    Why is that illegal when the champions are not shown in the first place.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,941 Guardian
    Cranmer00 wrote: »
    Isn’t the point of them being hidden as defenders tho is to not know who they are... if kabam wanted u to know every defender, they would show the picture of them. Use your scouting lens mastery, that’s what it is there for.

    Why is that illegal when the champions are not shown in the first place.

    Because in the real world most "points" have counter-balancing points that you have to compromise between. The point of being hidden is to reduce the information you have. But that doesn't mean the goal is to reduce that information to zero.

    The goal of the pass interference rule in American football is to give receivers a better chance to catch the ball. Why not just eliminate all backfield defenders then? Because the point isn't to make the catches guaranteed, it is to change the degree to which the forward pass is an effective weapon in football.

    Pass interference is illegal because someone in authority decided that making it easier to complete passes was better for football. Obfuscating names is illegal because someone in authority decided that making it easier to identify players in war defense was better for MCOC.

    And in actual fact, there were actual discussions surrounding this very point in the last early access beta test of Alliance War. The discussion, which the developers participated in, revolved around the fact that hidden defenders have a good point and a bad point for which there was no obvious perfect balance. The good point was that hidden defenders created an element of surprise for attackers to have to deal with and defenders to gain some advantage with. But the bad point was that it significantly reduced the opportunity for counter-play: for attackers to react to the defense they were attacking. This was considered an unresolved question about the right way to go in general.
  • SummonerNRSummonerNR Posts: 1,283 ★★★
    edited January 31
    Cranmer00 wrote: »
    Isn’t the point of them being hidden as defenders tho is to not know who they are... if kabam wanted u to know every defender, they would show the picture of them. Use your scouting lens mastery, that’s what it is there for.

    Why is that illegal when the champions are not shown in the first place.
    You’re not talking about the same “hidden” aspect. Yes, the heroes themselves are hidden (although not down in lower Tiers like 10 ? and below). Scouting Lens does not solve the issue being raised, that the Summoner themself is not being uniquely identifiable on the map. Summoner names are always visible (even on hidden opponents), but in this case were all made to look identical on the map due to truncation of summoner name.

    SummonerNR wrote: »
    They should add a way to link over to a defender's profile by clicking on any defensive node on the map (right now that only pops up the defensive buffs of that location). This would let you quickly go to the summoner profile of any defender on the map.

    This is actually something that we're working on for the future. We don't have much more information on it at this time, but you'll find out more as we get closer to the release!
    Thanks Miike, nice to know one of my ideas is actually worth implementing :smile:
  • GluteusMaximusGluteusMaximus Posts: 725 ★★★
    of course, when you run into Russian, Turkish or Japanese allis, it's the same effect. my kanji in particular is terribly rusty.
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 2,595 ★★★★★
    Haven’t used mine since college @GluteusMaximus and I was bad at it then.

    Dr. Zola
  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Posts: 1,874 ★★★
    I'm curious though. In this tier of map we do not know what the champ is. So does it really matter that we don't know who owns the champ? Either way we are still fighting an unknown enemy as intended right?

    The only way I see not knowing who own the champion as being a defensive advantage is if synergies worked in war defense, but they don't. So does it really matter?
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 7,941 Guardian
    I'm curious though. In this tier of map we do not know what the champ is. So does it really matter that we don't know who owns the champ? Either way we are still fighting an unknown enemy as intended right?

    The only way I see not knowing who own the champion as being a defensive advantage is if synergies worked in war defense, but they don't. So does it really matter?

    There's lots of things we can determine by looking at player profiles. That's why people do it. If you place one of your strongest champions, one that is in your profile, that could be completely given away by profile. And since we know you can't own two of the exact same champion, if we see one player placing something, we know none of their other placements can also be that same champion. We also know that any champion they are using on offense cannot be used on defense. Mastery information can get exposed: if we run into one defender from one player and we see they are running suicides or unfazed, we can then expect the same from all of their other defenders. And if we use things like the scouter tools, other complex bits of information can sometimes be deduced.

    Not everyone does all of these things all of the time, but these are all potential information gathering strategies that a player might employ, but obfuscating names makes difficult or impossible to do.
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