Annihilus released vs datamined abilities

FluffyPigMonster · April 2019

Fred_Joeity said:
According to Google, data mining is legal in the US as long as it isn’t for commercial purposes. It’s a bit sketchier in Canada I believe. Copyright laws are always iffy, but considering Kabam hasn’t pressed charges, they’re probably fine with it.

Anyways to the OP Kabam may have just changed their plan. Maybe the original version was too gamebrwaking or something and they went too heavy on the nerf. I’m honestly fine with not every new champ being the new best champion.

That’s a great and refreshing post

Thank you

GroundedWisdom · April 2019

The larger point I had was not the legality of it. It was the fact that the information released was not meant to be released, because it wasn't finished. You can ask whatever you like, but data mined information is not meant to be a reflection of the final product. Not sure why being a customer entitles us to hold them accountable for information not meant to be released, but they don't discuss data mined info, in general.

FluffyPigMonster · April 2019

GroundedWisdom said:
The larger point I had was not the legality of it. It was the fact that the information released was not meant to be released, because it wasn't finished. You can ask whatever you like, but data mined information is not meant to be a reflection of the final product. Not sure why being a customer entitles us to hold them accountable for information not meant to be released, but they don't discuss data mined info, in general.

Being a customer I can ask anything I want

They don’t have to answer, and I will accept that.

I don’t think you understand my point. And you posted the words “stolen” info in the first post you wrote in this thread

If the information isn’t “stolen” then it’s out there and I can ask ANYTHING I want about it.

Like, why did they cap the furies? I’m curious. There was clearly a development to that. Prowess that’s missing. These are items that interest me.

Not unqualified forum posters who are trying to hold a moral high ground and convince me what I asked is wrong. If you don’t like my question don’t take part in the discussion, because I’m not going to stop posting them.

GroundedWisdom · April 2019

FluffyPigMonster said:

GroundedWisdom said:
The larger point I had was not the legality of it. It was the fact that the information released was not meant to be released, because it wasn't finished. You can ask whatever you like, but data mined information is not meant to be a reflection of the final product. Not sure why being a customer entitles us to hold them accountable for information not meant to be released, but they don't discuss data mined info, in general.
Being a customer I can ask anything I want

They don’t have to answer, and I will accept that.

I don’t think you understand my point. And you posted the words “stolen” info in the first post you wrote in this thread

If the information isn’t “stolen” then it’s out there and I can ask ANYTHING I want about it.

Like, why did they cap the furies? I’m curious. There was clearly a development to that. Prowess that’s missing. These are items that interest me.

Not unqualified forum posters who are trying to hold a moral high ground and convince me what I asked is wrong. If you don’t like my question don’t take part in the discussion, because I’m not going to stop posting them.

It is stolen, sorry to say, It is up to Kabam's discretion to release it because it is theirs to release. The act of data mining may not be punishable, but releasing said information could be, should they choose to. You're still not getting the point of what I'm saying.
Data mined info is not ready. It's only one point of the process. What you're asking is for a run-down of their process with designing and finalizing him. Ask if you like, but you won't get much response on info that's data mined. It wasn't meant to go out.

FluffyPigMonster · April 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

FluffyPigMonster said:

GroundedWisdom said:
The larger point I had was not the legality of it. It was the fact that the information released was not meant to be released, because it wasn't finished. You can ask whatever you like, but data mined information is not meant to be a reflection of the final product. Not sure why being a customer entitles us to hold them accountable for information not meant to be released, but they don't discuss data mined info, in general.
Being a customer I can ask anything I want

They don’t have to answer, and I will accept that.

I don’t think you understand my point. And you posted the words “stolen” info in the first post you wrote in this thread

If the information isn’t “stolen” then it’s out there and I can ask ANYTHING I want about it.

Like, why did they cap the furies? I’m curious. There was clearly a development to that. Prowess that’s missing. These are items that interest me.

Not unqualified forum posters who are trying to hold a moral high ground and convince me what I asked is wrong. If you don’t like my question don’t take part in the discussion, because I’m not going to stop posting them.
It is stolen, sorry to say, It is up to Kabam's discretion to release it because it is theirs to release. The act of data mining may not be punishable, but releasing said information could be, should they choose to. You're still not getting the point of what I'm saying.
Data mined info is not ready. It's only one point of the process. What you're asking is for a run-down of their process with designing a finalizing him. Ask if you like, but you won't get much response on info that's data mined. It wasn't meant to go out.

Your word is as solid and useless as anyone else’s

Cite the laws and maybe I’ll agree with the fact it’s stolen otherwise it’s your opinion.

GroundedWisdom · April 2019

These situations are precisely why. People see the data mining and expect that to be the same as what comes out. That's not always the case.

FluffyPigMonster · April 2019

GroundedWisdom said:
These situations are precisely why. People see the data mining and expect that to be the same as what comes out. That's not always the case.

Not seeing info prior to release of the character will result in nobody buying crystals. I’m sure they’d love that.

Regarding the legality of everything, your word is as useless as you perceive other people’s words to be.

Cite specific internet laws or it’s just that - useless rhetoric

FluffyPigMonster · April 2019

Can anyone discuss his abilities? Please?

FluffyPigMonster · April 2019

He has significant armor break abilities which are superior to most if not all champs in the game.

I would have liked to see a bit more unblockable added to his unstoppable and that would have made him superior to most champs (just that alone)

Overall, I’ve been messing around with him and he’s pretty good (better than originally thought).

I would lik a few of the earlier designs but he’s good the way he is

Fred_Joeity · April 2019

I think he’s pretty cool. He stacks debuffs like crazyy, effectively heal blocking if you have Despair. His damage is ok, so he’s not the best attacker, but he also has pretty nice potential as a defender. The sp2 also hits decently if you have enough Stifles. The only problem is that he has a bit of a skill cap, and you need to have really good rhythm, making him not as effective against champs that require alternate play styles to fight against. The 60% armour breaks are also useful, along with the incinerate and Coldsnap immunity

FluffyPigMonster · April 2019

Fred_Joeity said:
I think he’s pretty cool. He stacks debuffs like crazyy, effectively heal blocking if you have Despair. His damage is ok, so he’s not the best attacker, but he also has pretty nice potential as a defender. The sp2 also hits decently if you have enough Stifles. The only problem is that he has a bit of a skill cap, and you need to have really good rhythm, making him not as effective against champs that require alternate play styles to fight against. The 60% armour breaks are also useful, along with the incinerate and Coldsnap immunity

Have you tried him vs IMIW and Medusa? He shreds both.

Fred_Joeity · April 2019

I don’t have him. I just piggybacking info off of Seatin’s rank up and gameplay video, and personal experience with other 4* 3/30 champs

FluffyPigMonster · April 2019

Fred_Joeity said:
I don’t have him. I just piggybacking info off of Seatin’s rank up and gameplay video, and personal experience with other 4* 3/30 champs

I hope you get him and have a chance to see for yourself. Thanks again

GroundedWisdom · April 2019

FluffyPigMonster said:

GroundedWisdom said:
These situations are precisely why. People see the data mining and expect that to be the same as what comes out. That's not always the case.
Not seeing info prior to release of the character will result in nobody buying crystals. I’m sure they’d love that.

Regarding the legality of everything, your word is as useless as you perceive other people’s words to be.

Cite specific internet laws or it’s just that - useless rhetoric

People will buy the Crystals regardless. If you're justifying data mining with sales, it won't go far with me.
You have to have permission from the company to share their internal data.
It's clear this is going nowhere, so all I will say is congrats on your pull.

SummonerNR · April 2019

So lots of people don't like it when Kabam nerfs a great champ after he's been released. And now we’re taking that to the next level and complaining about a champ changing even prior to it being released ??

Also, wouldn't datamining also be considered Reverse Engineering too, of which I’m sure there is probably language against that in the TOS. Whether or not you intend to make a profit from that Reverse Engineering.

FluffyPigMonster · April 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

FluffyPigMonster said:

GroundedWisdom said:
These situations are precisely why. People see the data mining and expect that to be the same as what comes out. That's not always the case.
Not seeing info prior to release of the character will result in nobody buying crystals. I’m sure they’d love that.

Regarding the legality of everything, your word is as useless as you perceive other people’s words to be.

Cite specific internet laws or it’s just that - useless rhetoric
, so all I will say is congrats on your pull.

Thanks!

Austin555555 · April 2019

FluffyPigMonster said:
He would have been way more desireable and useful with the datamined abilities.

As of now he seems mediocre with few uses

Question:

Why not release original version?

He would be way to OP

Demonzfyre · April 2019

FluffyPigMonster said:

Demonzfyre said:
Im not arguing legality. I'm arguing that OP's expectations for Kabam to respond to datamined info is extreme. Datamined info hasn't ever been perfect since hes been doing it. Hes been spot on with champs but not really accurate on abilities to be able to call the information safe.

If it really was illegal, i think Otruix would've been stopped by real lawyers and what not.
I asked. I think if you are a paying customer, of which people have spent varying amounts, and there is information out there then I can ask anything I want within reason.

Being that the information is posted everywhere on the internet, me asking a question based on established information is not unreasonable.

If anything, subsequent posts citing legality of the information is ridiculous.

Furthermore, I expect that this thread will, and should be closed for failure of us, the people who are supposedly keeping that company in business, to talk about the companies products and instead focus on trying to morally educate each other on what we can and can’t ask on an Internet forum page.

You aren't getting the point. Kabam didnt release that info. A hacker/dataminer did. They have nothing to answer too as it wasnt info that was ever to be released since it wasnt a final product. Being a paying "customer" or not doesnt mean you can expect them to comment or give reason why datamined abilities changed. You weren't supposed to see them to begin with.

LeNoirFaineant · April 2019

This thread lmao. OP is curious as to why the datamined version wasn't released. I doubt Kabam will answer but he isn't asking why they won't answer, if they are obligated to, or whether the info is legit. Way to derail a thread

SummonerNR · April 2019

The premise is ill-asked though. Something is “work in progress”, and someone asks why not just release it like that.

((scratch that, poor reference to airlines releasing planes without being fully tested))

A more relevant correlation would be the electronics industry CAPACITOR HACK from about 10 years ago. Anyone remember a massive recall/problem with TV's among other things. One company hacked into another's servers and stole “incomplete” or “in-development” Capacitor manufacturing specs, and used those to build their own and sold them to lot of companies (like Samsung). The tops of those Capacitors eventually blew, and people had to have parts replaced on circuit boards in their TV's (or in some cases the TV's were unrepairable because of that).

Demonzfyre · April 2019

LeNoirFaineant said:
This thread lmao. OP is curious as to why the datamined version wasn't released. I doubt Kabam will answer but he isn't asking why they won't answer, if they are obligated to, or whether the info is legit. Way to derail a thread

@LeNoirFaineant are you sure you read the entire thread? He wanted Kabam to answer that question and explain why the "original version" wasnt released. His expectation as a paying customer was to get answers from Kabam cause he deserves it.

FluffyPigMonster · April 2019

Demonzfyre said:

LeNoirFaineant said:
This thread lmao. OP is curious as to why the datamined version wasn't released. I doubt Kabam will answer but he isn't asking why they won't answer, if they are obligated to, or whether the info is legit. Way to derail a thread
@LeNoirFaineant are you sure you read the entire thread? He wanted Kabam to answer that question and explain why the "original version" wasnt released. His expectation as a paying customer was to get answers from Kabam cause he deserves it.

You miss the point and it sounds like you can’t read the entire thread either.

I can ask whatever I want because I’m a customer. Whether they respond is up to them.

Now how about we move on and talk about the champ and his abilities or do we need to argue from our moral high ground about this further?

FluffyPigMonster · April 2019

SummonerNR said:
The premise is ill-asked though. Something is “work in progress”, and someone asks why not just release it like that.

((scratch that, poor reference to airlines releasing planes without being fully tested))

A more relevant correlation would be the electronics industry CAPACITOR HACK from about 10 years ago. Anyone remember a massive recall/problem with TV's among other things. One company hacked into another's servers and stole “incomplete” or “in-development” Capacitor manufacturing specs, and used those to build their own and sold them to lot of companies (like Samsung). The tops of those Capacitors eventually blew, and people had to have parts replaced on circuit boards in their TV's (or in some cases the TV's were unrepairable because of that).

Because this is the same as me asking why his prowess and fury cap was removed.

Demonzfyre · April 2019

FluffyPigMonster said:

You miss the point and it sounds like you can’t read the entire thread either.

I can ask whatever I want because I’m a customer. Whether they respond is up to them.

Now how about we move on and talk about the champ and his abilities or do we need to argue from our moral high ground about this further?

Wow. Entitled much? You dont get special privileges because you spent money somewhere.

Do you go into Wal-Mart and ask for their future business plans because you read from an unofficial source something was supposed to change and didn't?

Do you go into Chilis and ask why they took ingredients out because you read what they were supposed to be from a random source but the actual dish was different?

No you don't (well maybe you do because you sound like that type of person). You don't get to just ask and have an expectation of an answer because you spent some money somewhere.

Someone hacked the game files.
You saw a possible version of his abilities.
The obvious answer is they moved a different direction.

We werent supposed to see those old files and Kabam owes no explanation as to why it changed.

FluffyPigMonster · April 2019

Demonzfyre said:

FluffyPigMonster said:

You miss the point and it sounds like you can’t read the entire thread either.

I can ask whatever I want because I’m a customer. Whether they respond is up to them.

Now how about we move on and talk about the champ and his abilities or do we need to argue from our moral high ground about this further?

Wow. Entitled much? You dont get special privileges because you spent money somewhere.

Do you go into Wal-Mart and ask for their future business plans because you read from an unofficial source something was supposed to change and didn't?

Do you go into Chilis and ask why they took ingredients out because you read what they were supposed to be from a random source but the actual dish was different?

No you don't (well maybe you do because you sound like that type of person). You don't get to just ask and have an expectation of an answer because you spent some money somewhere.

Someone hacked the game files.
You saw a possible version of his abilities.
The obvious answer is they moved a different direction.

We werent supposed to see those old files and Kabam owes no explanation as to why it changed.

But I can still ask. I can ask anything I want. Whether they answer is up to them. And I’ll keep asking. I can ask away just like you can post whatever you want. It’s my right to ask anything I want. Who are you to tell me what I can and can’t ask? I have to abide by some code of ethics?

I love how all you guys attack me on this. Love it. It’s as if I’ve committed a felony.

And the moral high horse is hysterical. You don’t even work for Kabam. Are you guys attorneys?

Did any of you look at those game files?

We all know the answer.

Kabam Lyra · April 2019

Hi all,

Information from unofficial sources should not be considered as reliable and may have no actual bearing on what is in the game. If you have suggestions on how you'd like to see the Champion improved, please feel free to share them in a constructive manner. We always appreciate thoughtful feedback about the game. Thanks!

Annihilus released vs datamined abilities

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