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T3+ AWA timers. A serious issue.

HaminHamin Posts: 2,444 ★★★★★
in General Discussion
Just fought an r2 6* duped KP on buffet with limber... timed out twice... never came close to dying.

So here's the rub.

T3 AWA is balls-to-the-wall in terms of defenders and nodes... and every point counts.

I'm ok with losing a fight and losing an attack bonus. Hey... I couldn't beat the defender. They deserve it.

What I'm not ok with is losing health and attack bonus due to a silly and out of date 3 minute timer.

The higher end of the game has evolved past this.

There is no way to beat that KP in under 3 minutes due to the design of the champ and the node.

Why are attackers punished for something beyond their control?

Timeouts shouldn't take away attack bonus or health... or, keep the status quo and increase the timer to 7 or 8 minutes.

Feel free to agree, disagree or flame.

Comments

  • HaminHamin Posts: 2,444 ★★★★★
    Drooped2 said:

    The only shock this thread gave me was someone used t5b on kingpin otherwise I agree

    Like I told my alliance mate... hey it worked... I couldn't kill him in under 6 minutes with an r5 ST with No Mercy.
  • Narwhal52xNarwhal52x Posts: 513 ★★★
    If they were gonna keep the timer they should make it 10-20 minutes
  • Panchulon21Panchulon21 Posts: 2,605 ★★★★★
    I think you hit the nail on the head. 3 mins with these new defenders and the ability to take a 6 star to rank 2 should increase the timer. A rank 2 duped 6 star korg without being boosted to the brink will yield a time-out usually. At least increase it to 4 mins. And start the timer when the first blow lands (parried or block or landed). You waste 3-5 seconds with the champs running towards each other.

    I also agree that why would you use t5b on kingpin lol.
  • DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,785 ★★★★★
    Actually getting 3 minutes for fights would be a nice change. Fights don’t actually start until 3-4 seconds of the timer have passed. Sp3 animations - especially newer ones like Proxima Midnight Omega Red Darkhawk and Captain Marvel - give further advantages to AI in timed fights.

    Season 10 will likely feature increases difficulty of maps and increased quality of rewards. Current war structure such as timers will hopefully be changed as well.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,657 Guardian
    Hamin said:

    Just fought an r2 6* duped KP on buffet with limber... timed out twice... never came close to dying.

    So here's the rub.

    T3 AWA is balls-to-the-wall in terms of defenders and nodes... and every point counts.

    I'm ok with losing a fight and losing an attack bonus. Hey... I couldn't beat the defender. They deserve it.

    What I'm not ok with is losing health and attack bonus due to a silly and out of date 3 minute timer.

    The higher end of the game has evolved past this.

    There is no way to beat that KP in under 3 minutes due to the design of the champ and the node.

    Why are attackers punished for something beyond their control?

    Timeouts shouldn't take away attack bonus or health... or, keep the status quo and increase the timer to 7 or 8 minutes.

    Feel free to agree, disagree or flame.

    The problem with this line of thought is that it doesn't acknowledge the development process. Which is to say, the game hasn't "evolved past" the timer at all. The game has explicitly, deliberately evolved with the timer in mind. The developers have revisited and altered war a gazillion times from 12.0, to the 14.0-16.1 changes, to the more recent changes. Those changes have included at times defensively strengthening the map, or alternatively making it harder to defeat the node within the timer limits.

    I'm not saying the developers are correct in their design decisions, but it doesn't matter if those decisions are correct, what matters is they are deliberate. Advocating altering or removing the timer doesn't change that. You'd most likely fail, but if somehow you miraculously succeed in increasing the timers to 7 minutes what's to stop the devs from simply making the defender nodes even harder to defeat in season twelve?

    On the other hand, if you can somehow convince the devs that their design decisions were wrong with regard to node strength on the maps, the more direct way to address that would be to weaken those nodes. Making the nodes stronger and then making the timer longer and then making the nodes even stronger to accommodate the longer timer is just creating a design arms race that simply lengthens, without actually making easier, the fights.

    As to removing health with timeouts, I wasn't in favor of that decision when it was added, but I recognize it was added to address certain exploit conditions which I'm not sure don't still exist in a form that can't be resolved in any other way. If there is a way to resolve them to eliminate the exploits, then I'd be fine with not removing health on a timeout. It isn't a game-balance thing as far as I can see, but a meta-balance thing to reduce the opportunity to cheat the system. It should go away if it is no longer needed.
  • CliffordcanCliffordcan Posts: 1,341 ★★★★
    These 3 min timers are the biggest reason everyone brings certain “god-Tier” champs to War.

    King Groot is one of the safest champs to use, but even if you have him highly ranked, he still won’t beat a lot of timers in AW on serious nodes
  • HeadrollerHeadroller Posts: 255 ★
    Just remember your defense could present the same problem to the opposing team.


  • KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 1,416 ★★★★★
    Headroller said:

    Just remember your defense could present the same problem to the opposing team.


    That doesn't mean that the 3-min timers are right/good. Just because it sucks for both sides doesn't make something a good option.
  • HaminHamin Posts: 2,444 ★★★★★
    Headroller said:

    Just remember your defense could present the same problem to the opposing team.


    How is that applicable?
  • xNigxNig Posts: 7,245 ★★★★★
    Both have the same handicap, hence it’s fair.
  • KnightZeroKnightZero Posts: 1,416 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    Both have the same handicap, hence it’s fair.

    It's fair that both teams face the timer issue. But doesn't mean that it's the right way to go. As someone said above, champs that are good counters for war opponents which would diversify rosters are often neglected for high damage champs just because they can't get the job done in 3 minutes.
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