Class and Rarity Gates - Discussion Thread

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  • DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,799 ★★★★★
    xNig said:


    This is why players should withhold their judgements on what Kabam decides to do until the content actually drops. It is definitely not in their best interest to run the game into the dumps and force people to quit. Decisions are made with balance and longevity of the game in mind.

    Nailed it, 6.1's "No Retreat!" was 10X more difficult in the beta than it was when 6.1 was released
  • JadedJaded Posts: 2,378 ★★★★★

    Just realized these gates are Class AND star specific. So I definitely can’t do this. It’s insane... I became Cavalier Day 1, but can’t do 6.2 because of silly requirements? Absurd.

    You’re overreacting. The class restrictions are on the 5* champs. No class restrictions on the 6* gates. 6* restrictions cover 1 lane per level and there are 10 lanes per level, 6 levels. 60 lanes and 6 of them will be restricted by the amount of 6* champs on your questing team. If you don’t have 4 6* by the time you need them you’ll probably have it 🤷‍♂️.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 25,178 ★★★★★
    TaZ_4178 said:

    Tyrannus said:

    Do there it is content from Kabam miikes own words did end game players what about us mid tier

    If you're in the mid tier (not yet Cavalier), this content is not targeted to you. There will come a day where 6-Star Champions are more readily accessible by mid-tier players, but that's not quite yet.
    Well at least I finally know who you guys consider as "EndGame" players now... thanks
    They consider all Players. It just happens to be that this content is at the End-Game level.
  • MarzGrooveMarzGroove Posts: 903 ★★★
    edited May 2019

    Moving forward, when act 6.4 will be released, and champion requirements continue to be imposed, legends run will be limited to those who are equiped to take on the race.

    As was always the case.
  • BowTieJohnBowTieJohn Posts: 1,305 ★★★
    Alex_sc11 said:

    This may sound terrible for a lot of people but, and hear me out, could also turn out to be interesting and fun (I am not being sarcastic)

    Take for example Variant 2 , how the nodes were made for us to use XL characters in order to go through without taking damage, but instead of being a P.I.T.A. Kabam also put on some nodes to make our XL fighters better and giving (imho) some of the most fun fights in the endgame play. Example: King Groot being a total beast in his specific quest. The challenge was still there and don’t mistake me, the quests are NOT EASY but the restrictions had a counteroffer for using characters one usually does not choose for this difficulty and that turn up to be a great idea!

    I think that if Kabam go this way , making us use four mystic 6* characters in a team (Worst case scenario: 6 star loki , a 6 star iron fist, 6 star Thor Jane Foster , 6 Star guillotine) the nodes will be designed to have fun doing them with these characters.

    Just my 2 cents

    I'm hopeful for this case scenario, but then again I still need to get through the rest of Act 4 and Act 5 of course.
  • Tarzan041Tarzan041 Posts: 173 ★★
    5 and 6 star shards are not easier to get, the rewards for all quest are the same as they have always been. None of this months quest give out any extra 6 star shards. The only way to get more 5 and 6 star champs is to buy cavalier crystals.
  • RasiloverRasilover Posts: 559 ★★★

    Rasilover said:

    Don't act surprised that Act 6 would have 6 star requirements.
    Act 6 is clearly designed strictly for end game players that are able to expand their 5 stars and 6 stars to give those players some sort of "challenge" to keep the players optimistic preventing content drought

    Are you for real right now dude? Are you actually for real??? I personally have done almost every content in the game aside from Labyrinth. The amount of progress I have done... warrants me the right to Act 6.2. Unfortunately, some paths require 4 6*’s... & I only have 3. No matter what way you look at it, it’s BS. For the amount of progress I’ve done throughout Story & the game, it only makes sense I have full access. Plain & Simple.
    It's Permanent Content that the rest of the minority has to look forward while working to develop their 6* Roster.
    Eventually 6*s will be as easy to get as 5*s
  • Manup456Manup456 Posts: 360 ★★
    Let me get this correct I'm at Cavalier lvl and they say 5* and 6* are more accessible, but it's only through cavalier crystals which cost money 🤔 Yeah you can grind arena all day every day and buy a few, but you can't keep up with people spending thousands. If you do pull a few 6* will they be even good enough to complete the content?

    Why don't we have any daily events where you can earn more 5* and 6* shards for people who achieve the cavalier title. Because honestly 6* shards are not very accessible and are very few shards if you do get them.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 25,178 ★★★★★
    edited May 2019

    Rasilover said:

    Rasilover said:

    Don't act surprised that Act 6 would have 6 star requirements.
    Act 6 is clearly designed strictly for end game players that are able to expand their 5 stars and 6 stars to give those players some sort of "challenge" to keep the players optimistic preventing content drought

    Are you for real right now dude? Are you actually for real??? I personally have done almost every content in the game aside from Labyrinth. The amount of progress I have done... warrants me the right to Act 6.2. Unfortunately, some paths require 4 6*’s... & I only have 3. No matter what way you look at it, it’s BS. For the amount of progress I’ve done throughout Story & the game, it only makes sense I have full access. Plain & Simple.
    It's Permanent Content that the rest of the minority has to look forward while working to develop their 6* Roster.
    Eventually 6*s will be as easy to get as 5*s
    But if I want to dive into it Day 1, I should be able too. My progress warrants it. Access in this game should be based on Progress & Achievements, not roster size. It’s basically a d*** measuring contest, of who has the biggest & thickest roster, & not about skills or achievements. I know of SO MANY players with a WAYY bigger roster than me, but I’ve still achieved more in this game. Roster size should mean nothing... it should be about your skills, decisions & achievements throughout the game.
    Your skills and achievements throughout the game ARE your Roster. This debate has gone on for longer than I care to admit. Your Rating, your Prestige, the Champs you have...all reflections of your achievements. Even people who bought their 6*s from the Cavalier Crystals had to get there in the first place. There are more measures of skill than just an overpowered 4* and some fancy Dex. Skill is measured in other ways as well, along with progress made with that skill. Although it's worth noting that the progress gates aren't really directly about skill. They're about having a certain amount of progress in order to pass. That progress is measured by your Roster, which you can only get at certain stages in the game.
  • xNigxNig Posts: 5,198 ★★★★★

    xNig said:


    This is why players should withhold their judgements on what Kabam decides to do until the content actually drops. It is definitely not in their best interest to run the game into the dumps and force people to quit. Decisions are made with balance and longevity of the game in mind.

    Nailed it, 6.1's "No Retreat!" was 10X more difficult in the beta than it was when 6.1 was released
    Wait till they see the globals in 6.2 bro. 😂😂
  • OnmixOnmix Posts: 400 ★★★
    Judging from what I've read I don't qualify as an endgame player
    So I have 1 aspect that I don't fully agree with.

    I've completed everything but 6.2 and 1 chapter of 6.1. I'm on a P2 ally that gets consistently matched against P1/masters allies. Let's call me an early endgame player.

    The rest that are on a masters ally/map 7 completed everything would be late endgame players.

    Now I can't complete 6.1 precisely because I lack certain champs for certain matchups (champs that I do have as 4*).
    I probably won't be able to complete 6.2 either. That's 2 sets of rewards I'm not getting.

    Late endgame players have many more 5* than me so they can complete everything and get those 2 sets of rewards I can't, thus giving them an advantage over me.

    Now given that I compete against them, I'm already at a disadvantage because they spend more/grind more, and have more time here than me so they have a wider roster.
    Now this disadvantage on my behalf is ok. They deserve it. Either they spend or grind more than me.

    But there is no need for further widening the gap between early and late endgame players because my only chance to catch them is with Act 6 rewards which now I can't get. And I need to catch them or at least get close enough to compete against them. I'll still lose against them (for the reasons mentioned on the paragraph above) but I can compete without an enormous disadvantage.

    This gates of progression aren't something we need at early-late endgame because the gap is already there.

    I can agree of setting the difficulty bar significantly higher so that the amount of skill needed is greater but outright denying me the ability to run certain challenges based on something that is entirely out of luck (pulling certain champs) is not something we need.

    Maybe I'm the only one that feels this way but I really rather see gates like Variant 2 which reward a wider roster instead of punishing the lack of one.
  • xNigxNig Posts: 5,198 ★★★★★
    Lazy to reply to individual posts.

    Read the Developer Diary that was posted in the announcement section. It was EXPLICITLY stated that the focus on future end-game content was the depth AND breadth of rosters.

    So if the breadth of your roster isn’t there yet, yes you won’t be able to access the full 6.2. As simple as that.

    This is similar to someone with 5* R2s as their top champs wanting to have access to the full 6.2, despite not having enough depth to their rosters. They can have all the 5*s available in the game to meet the breadth requirement, but it doesn’t change the fact that their roster depth is insufficient.

    There are 4 paths with class restrictions and 1 path with rarity restriction per quest across the entire 6.2. If you cannot muster up 4 5* champs of the same class, then 6.2 isn’t for you. Similarly, if you cannot field 4 6*s on your team, then 6.2 isn’t for you.

    The problem is people want to bring only a CERTAIN few 6*s and disregard the others they have in their rosters. I brought Black Bolt, Yondu, and Thor Rag on the 6* path for the final quest.

    People need to stop complaining about content that they have no experience on.
  • xNigxNig Posts: 5,198 ★★★★★

    I got to Cavalier, day after 6.1 came out. This is my team that I used for it (mind the 4* Champs that I can't use)...



    So I had 6 Champs that I used for it (I don't honestly count Deadpool X-Force or Mordo), X-23, Luke Cage, Korg, Sentinel, Quake, and Hyperion.

    Despite having a TINY roster compared to most of the people who also took on this challenge, I too completed it. Despite my roster having few Champions, and those Champions being relatively weak in comparison, I beat this, because I am a skilled and seasoned player. And I used a minimal amount of Units and revives (700 Units).

    Now, I'm not going to say that I am surprised, I'm most certainly not, but with all my hard work, now I can't play the next Chapter? I can't go in with my small team (which has grown slightly since then, not the point), and play this content. Now you require me to have a certain amount of Champs?

    i know I can simply avoid these paths, and I'm sure those paths without the Gates are going to look terrible, probably nothing I can't handle, but still. Am I too weak for this now? I can't 100% this because my team isn't diverse enough. I understand the point of making the gap between end game players and lower tier players bigger, but since when did having a stacked roster become how you win this game?

    I practically completed 6.1 with my pure skill and lower than average tier Champions, but now it appears that wont be enough. I hope you were serious about making 5* and 6* more available, because its likely going to be a long time before I play this content.

    Listen to your player base next time, for the sake of the game? Geez.

    You can play the next chapter. There are 5 paths in each quest that have no class or rarity gates. What are you complaining about?

    I’m very sure you are unsure of how the paths without gates look. So don’t be so sure about it.

    Your team is definitely diverse enough. Since you’re so skilled and seasoned, you should be able to bring in the 5*s of the same class that you should have and still handle the content on that path.

    And since you’re not done with 6.1 yet, why are you complaining about 6.2? Completed doesn’t equate to “done”.

    Gosh. How I wish Kabam gated 6.2 behind the exploration of 6.1.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 4,846 ★★★★★

    xNig said:


    This is why players should withhold their judgements on what Kabam decides to do until the content actually drops. It is definitely not in their best interest to run the game into the dumps and force people to quit. Decisions are made with balance and longevity of the game in mind.

    Nailed it, 6.1's "No Retreat!" was 10X more difficult in the beta than it was when 6.1 was released
    That it was. Probably one of the reasons I didn't get a 6.2 invite. Got really annoyed messing with that no retreat node and barely touched the rest
  • xNigxNig Posts: 5,198 ★★★★★
    Dtl7714 said:

    TaZ_4178 said:

    Sociopath said:

    Well great job for listening to the community about the gate of no 4*'s in 6.1.
    *Dev team* "let's gate 6.2!
    Honestly I respect your transparency about this before release but listening to the community is certainly not your strongest attribute here.
    As for the more availability of 5/6* shards in content.. Have you no data on the last 4 weeks????
    I'm genuinely curious as this event has been God awful in rewards and we still have two more weeks of poop to go.
    In all honesty the gate does not effect me to much as I'll still be able to complete it, just not explore. But the reasoning behind this is almost delusions of grandeur.

    In their defense, the community is extremely short-sided and wrong in almost every situation (at least the majority)
    Since my phone claims your comment was approved via the over lords... I'll simply say wtf are you talking about? I will give you the reward for Troll post of 2019 though! Great job, now stand up and take a bow!
    He isn't terribly wrong. The majority of the player base overreacts with every announcement unless it involves free stuff. Then tends to shut up once the content is released or changes made and because they realize it wasn't what they thought it was.
    They dont "shut up" cause they realize it wasnt as bad as they say it was.

    They just get tired of giving feedback to Kabam that it continues to ignore. The complaining stops cause it isnt accomplishing anything

    And what is your personal stake in all this. You always take criticism of Kabam so personal and act hostile to anyone who criticizes anything about the game.
    Wrong. It’s as what @Demonzfyre said. Players “shut up” because they realize it’s doable and isn’t as bad as they think it was.
  • xNigxNig Posts: 5,198 ★★★★★
    Ace_03 said:





    What is considered end-game now in MCOC?

    Any champion that is not rare or obtained with money I've got from 1* to 4*, 71 5*, 6 maxed 5*'s, 12 R4 5* and 7 6*. 1,055,000 rating, is this considered end game? because I've beaten everything there is to beat, yet still have a god awful roster of 6*'s, not to mention missing several key 5* for synergy purposes.

    it used to be that, you could use a 2* SL and do ROL if you we're skilled enough, 3 years ago I saw pictures of people beating ROL Wolverine with a 2k+ combo with that champ, it was about skill, perseverance, these curtailment are compulsory with little working room, as always I think about the future of the game, where will this lead us eventually?

    It's not about quitting, whining, crying and throwing a tantrum, but seeing more and more that these gates are locks on our roster not because of skill, but because they are not affluent enough, in both size and monetary disposition.


    That’s the thing. You do have the roster to do 6.2, but whether you want to put in the effort to do it NOW or you want to develop your roster further to make it easier (like all permanent content that becomes easier as time passes) before attempting it is up to you.

    People are complaining because they are looking at it as “I HAVE to 100% it NOW” when in actual fact they don’t have to, or are not ready to do so.

    Also, mustering up 4x 5*s of the same class is difficult to end game players? Definitely not. Instead, people are just thinking that they do not have 4x 5*s of the same class that are ranked high enough to tackle end game content (hence the “make t2a more available threads”). To make matters worse, they are selective in who they rank and discard others who aren’t deemed “God tier”.

    Roster is used as a general gauge on where a player stands in the game. There are MANY profiles I see now, with 2 R5s and 1-2 R4 defenders ranked, having taken the “express train” to R5s handed out by Kabam. Are they experienced enough, skilled enough to handle end game content? Or did they get lucky and steamroll their way through earlier content using overpowered champs and their synergies, while thinking they are so godly at the game?

    Point is, the class gates and rarity gates are used to separate the newer, less experienced players, and older veterans. This is required as a roster check to prevent players from overly relying on certain champs, and their synergies.
  • xNigxNig Posts: 5,198 ★★★★★

    xNig said:


    This is why players should withhold their judgements on what Kabam decides to do until the content actually drops. It is definitely not in their best interest to run the game into the dumps and force people to quit. Decisions are made with balance and longevity of the game in mind.

    Nailed it, 6.1's "No Retreat!" was 10X more difficult in the beta than it was when 6.1 was released
    That it was. Probably one of the reasons I didn't get a 6.2 invite. Got really annoyed messing with that no retreat node and barely touched the rest
    Haha. The rest were relatively easy compared to No Retreat. Just felt out of place as the global of the first quest. If it were shifted to 6.1.5 or 6.1.6, I would have not objected to it being stackable (but the timer should still be introduced, albeit with a longer cooldown).
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 4,846 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    xNig said:


    This is why players should withhold their judgements on what Kabam decides to do until the content actually drops. It is definitely not in their best interest to run the game into the dumps and force people to quit. Decisions are made with balance and longevity of the game in mind.

    Nailed it, 6.1's "No Retreat!" was 10X more difficult in the beta than it was when 6.1 was released
    That it was. Probably one of the reasons I didn't get a 6.2 invite. Got really annoyed messing with that no retreat node and barely touched the rest
    Haha. The rest were relatively easy compared to No Retreat. Just felt out of place as the global of the first quest. If it were shifted to 6.1.5 or 6.1.6, I would have not objected to it being stackable (but the timer should still be introduced, albeit with a longer cooldown).
    I just remember still getting absolutely wrecked by the 2nd or 3rd fight even with Gulk on a lot of attempts if they were being stingy with specials. Gave me zero hope of getting through 6.1 as fast as I ended up doing it when it released. I was quite happy with the change.
  • xNigxNig Posts: 5,198 ★★★★★

    xNig said:

    xNig said:


    This is why players should withhold their judgements on what Kabam decides to do until the content actually drops. It is definitely not in their best interest to run the game into the dumps and force people to quit. Decisions are made with balance and longevity of the game in mind.

    Nailed it, 6.1's "No Retreat!" was 10X more difficult in the beta than it was when 6.1 was released
    That it was. Probably one of the reasons I didn't get a 6.2 invite. Got really annoyed messing with that no retreat node and barely touched the rest
    Haha. The rest were relatively easy compared to No Retreat. Just felt out of place as the global of the first quest. If it were shifted to 6.1.5 or 6.1.6, I would have not objected to it being stackable (but the timer should still be introduced, albeit with a longer cooldown).
    I just remember still getting absolutely wrecked by the 2nd or 3rd fight even with Gulk on a lot of attempts if they were being stingy with specials. Gave me zero hope of getting through 6.1 as fast as I ended up doing it when it released. I was quite happy with the change.
    That Elektra on sp1 unblockable though.. Was such an irritating fight even with Gulk. Haha my 2 tries with Gulk got me to the 3rd fight when I started to full pot him to handle the next fight.

    Yeah. Tbh I felt that the change was a tad too generous with the timer and it being non stackable even with that timer.
  • xNigxNig Posts: 5,198 ★★★★★
    Dtl7714 said:

    xNig said:

    Dtl7714 said:

    TaZ_4178 said:

    Sociopath said:

    Well great job for listening to the community about the gate of no 4*'s in 6.1.
    *Dev team* "let's gate 6.2!
    Honestly I respect your transparency about this before release but listening to the community is certainly not your strongest attribute here.
    As for the more availability of 5/6* shards in content.. Have you no data on the last 4 weeks????
    I'm genuinely curious as this event has been God awful in rewards and we still have two more weeks of poop to go.
    In all honesty the gate does not effect me to much as I'll still be able to complete it, just not explore. But the reasoning behind this is almost delusions of grandeur.

    In their defense, the community is extremely short-sided and wrong in almost every situation (at least the majority)
    Since my phone claims your comment was approved via the over lords... I'll simply say wtf are you talking about? I will give you the reward for Troll post of 2019 though! Great job, now stand up and take a bow!
    He isn't terribly wrong. The majority of the player base overreacts with every announcement unless it involves free stuff. Then tends to shut up once the content is released or changes made and because they realize it wasn't what they thought it was.
    They dont "shut up" cause they realize it wasnt as bad as they say it was.

    They just get tired of giving feedback to Kabam that it continues to ignore. The complaining stops cause it isnt accomplishing anything

    And what is your personal stake in all this. You always take criticism of Kabam so personal and act hostile to anyone who criticizes anything about the game.
    Wrong. It’s as what @Demonzfyre said. Players “shut up” because they realize it’s doable and isn’t as bad as they think it was.
    Trolls United, I see.

    While we can agree to disagree about why complaints slow down. My post also had as much to do with his hostility against complaints towards Kabam.
    Well.. a lot of the complaints made aren’t valid. It’s just the complainer’s perception of how things might be vs how things actually are or will be, and they’re blowing it out of proportion based on their entitlement mentality that they should be able to 100% it the moment it drops with the roster they currently have.

    If complaints were pertaining to issues such as bugs, lag issues etc, fair enough. You don’t see people whom you think are “trolls” defending Kabam.

    Tbh it doesn’t matter to me whether you think I’m a forum troll or not. Yes I love trolling people who think they are very good until the game gives them a slap back to reality and they come crying on the forums (eg Nameless Thanos).

    But when it comes to being objective and seeing the bigger picture, I would argue that your so-called “trolls” are actually correct most of the time.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 9,717 ★★★★★

    Roster Size is mostly dependent on your wallet when it comes to the endgame. Skills & achievements are based on the players. What would you want your game to focus on?

    So explain Brian Grant and his F2P account.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,946 Guardian

    Rasilover said:

    Rasilover said:

    Don't act surprised that Act 6 would have 6 star requirements.
    Act 6 is clearly designed strictly for end game players that are able to expand their 5 stars and 6 stars to give those players some sort of "challenge" to keep the players optimistic preventing content drought

    Are you for real right now dude? Are you actually for real??? I personally have done almost every content in the game aside from Labyrinth. The amount of progress I have done... warrants me the right to Act 6.2. Unfortunately, some paths require 4 6*’s... & I only have 3. No matter what way you look at it, it’s BS. For the amount of progress I’ve done throughout Story & the game, it only makes sense I have full access. Plain & Simple.
    It's Permanent Content that the rest of the minority has to look forward while working to develop their 6* Roster.
    Eventually 6*s will be as easy to get as 5*s
    But if I want to dive into it Day 1, I should be able too. My progress warrants it. Access in this game should be based on Progress & Achievements, not roster size. It’s basically a d*** measuring contest, of who has the biggest & thickest roster, & not about skills or achievements. I know of SO MANY players with a WAYY bigger roster than me, but I’ve still achieved more in this game. Roster size should mean nothing... it should be about your skills, decisions & achievements throughout the game.
    Your skills and achievements throughout the game ARE your Roster. This debate has gone on for longer than I care to admit. Your Rating, your Prestige, the Champs you have...all reflections of your achievements. Even people who bought their 6*s from the Cavalier Crystals had to get there in the first place. There are more measures of skill than just an overpowered 4* and some fancy Dex. Skill is measured in other ways as well, along with progress made with that skill. Although it's worth noting that the progress gates aren't really directly about skill. They're about having a certain amount of progress in order to pass. That progress is measured by your Roster, which you can only get at certain stages in the game.
    Nope, sorry. The simple fact that I’ve accomplished way more in this game than players who have twice the roster I do, tears down your whole “roster is progress” BS.
    How does it do that? That's like saying if you can do more by level 40 than most people do at level 60, that means leveling is not progress.

    There's different kinds of progress in the game, some the player can measure by their own standards, and some the game itself measures and uses as soft or hard prerequisites. There's no question that roster strength is being used as a form of progress metric in the game. I would argue it always has been. Whether you like it or not the statement that it is "BS" is simply ignoring reality.

    This game is first and foremost a champion collecting game. All of the fighting elements of it are ways to value champions. This game can and has existed without many of those elements, and most players don't even participate in all of them. But everyone collects champions, because you pretty much have to. The dev cycle includes regular champion additions. Most of the monetization in the game revolves around champion collection. And as the game continues to develop forward it continues to leverage depth and breadth of champion roster as a soft gate for further progress in the game. You can say it "shouldn't" be about that, but that's your opinion. There's no game design rule that says that's supposed to be true, or that that's the best way to make a game. And if that's what you want, this is not the game for you.
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