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Class and Rarity Gates - Discussion Thread

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    Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    Ultra8529 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    There have always been 2 ways to progress in this game time/skill or money/skill. It seems like a lot of people want to progress without using either.

    That is not true at all. I think people wouldn't mind a really difficult quest that requires lots of skill and also items which have to be farmed up. That involves time/skill if you are not a spender.

    The problem with arbitrary 6* gates is to introduce a hard spending limit based not on how good you are, or how much time you have invested in the game, but whether (1) you have got the RNG on your side to get non-dupes of 6*s, or (2) are willing to spend on cavalier crystals to acquire a broad 6* roster.

    It is in fact in pursuit of the game encouraging progress through skill that a player should be allowed to use 4* or 5*s in a quest, as opposed to a 6*. The only real difference is that 6*s are expensive to get whereas 4*s and 5*s are relatively less so.
    You don't HAVE to spend a single cent on this game to do anything. You do have to spend more time building a roster if you don't spend. Some of you will just have to deal with that fact.
    Yup exactly what I was recommending everyone here. Not to do Act 6.2 until you have a full roster of god tier 6*s at r2 mininum and then go in to clear the map for free.

    It would be very useful to send Kabam a message that we the community will not respond to such a game design by being forced into using sub-optimal champs. Simply wait until 6*s actually become accessible before even attempting those paths.
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    WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Ultra8529 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    Ultra8529 said:

    Worknprogress said:

    There have always been 2 ways to progress in this game time/skill or money/skill. It seems like a lot of people want to progress without using either.

    That is not true at all. I think people wouldn't mind a really difficult quest that requires lots of skill and also items which have to be farmed up. That involves time/skill if you are not a spender.

    The problem with arbitrary 6* gates is to introduce a hard spending limit based not on how good you are, or how much time you have invested in the game, but whether (1) you have got the RNG on your side to get non-dupes of 6*s, or (2) are willing to spend on cavalier crystals to acquire a broad 6* roster.

    It is in fact in pursuit of the game encouraging progress through skill that a player should be allowed to use 4* or 5*s in a quest, as opposed to a 6*. The only real difference is that 6*s are expensive to get whereas 4*s and 5*s are relatively less so.
    You don't HAVE to spend a single cent on this game to do anything. You do have to spend more time building a roster if you don't spend. Some of you will just have to deal with that fact.
    Yup exactly what I was recommending everyone here. Not to do Act 6.2 until you have a full roster of god tier 6*s at r2 mininum and then go in to clear the map for free.

    It would be very useful to send Kabam a message that we the community will not respond to such a game design by being forced into using sub-optimal champs. Simply wait until 6*s actually become accessible before even attempting those paths.
    I’m not particularly concerned with the 6* paths personally. I’ll probably have far more trouble with the mystic 5* paths. I have all the mystic champs but none over R4. I’ve never wanted to reopen MD after they wrecked it so I’ve avoided ranking up mystics beyond R4 until now.
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    RotellyRotelly Posts: 774 ★★★
    My Ask is that class gates shouldn’t be locked by rarity. If I pulled a 6* cosmic let me use it and not have to rank up a 5* to fill its spot
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    WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    edited May 2019
    XxLoganTDCxX said:

    There is a difference between skill and P2W
    Skill is using champs that might not be fit for the fight, but you win with them.
    Having a stacked roster dosnt require skill. Just money.

    Another Cash Grab for Kabam.
    This is getting out of hand.

    It takes either time OR money. Regardless of how good a roster you have, you have to know how to use it as well.

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    Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★
    Rotelly said:

    My Ask is that class gates shouldn’t be locked by rarity. If I pulled a 6* cosmic let me use it and not have to rank up a 5* to fill its spot

    Exactly. Another example of how the current gate plans are arbitrary and baseless.
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    DeaconDeacon Posts: 4,068 ★★★★★
    guess i wont' be playing Act 6 any time soon
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    RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    Rotelly said:

    My Ask is that class gates shouldn’t be locked by rarity. If I pulled a 6* cosmic let me use it and not have to rank up a 5* to fill its spot

    This is a great idea. The skill class is pretty weak and I only have 2 ranked past r3 (r5 Blade and r4 Fury) I have a 6* duped WS that won't cont for the skill paths. Awesome!
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    LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 8,638 ★★★★★
    Ultra8529 said:

    Endgame must be understood in context. With this move Kabam has basically affirmed that "endgame" has two subtiers:

    Endgame-spender: 0 arena but can spend 30k units on 100 cavalier crystals a week, getting 1 6* each week. Can push ahead with massive 6* rosters to clear 6.2 instantly. Will spend to clear where skills are lacking.

    Endgame-f2p: grind arena, quests and can spend about 1k units on 5 cavalier crystals a week. Gets about 1 6* from 20 weeks of grinding. Will have to wait months before attempting 6.2 at an efficient rate even with god-tier skills.

    I've spent thousands of FTP units on cavalier crystals and it hasn't advanced my roster even a little bit lol. Zero 6*s, old 5* dupes and featured 3*s lol. I'm out on those crystals for awhile. Just going to have to get it done with bad 6*s and older 5*s I guess. Not fussed about the gates though.
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    Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★
    LeNoirFaineant said:

    Ultra8529 said:

    Endgame must be understood in context. With this move Kabam has basically affirmed that "endgame" has two subtiers:

    Endgame-spender: 0 arena but can spend 30k units on 100 cavalier crystals a week, getting 1 6* each week. Can push ahead with massive 6* rosters to clear 6.2 instantly. Will spend to clear where skills are lacking.

    Endgame-f2p: grind arena, quests and can spend about 1k units on 5 cavalier crystals a week. Gets about 1 6* from 20 weeks of grinding. Will have to wait months before attempting 6.2 at an efficient rate even with god-tier skills.

    I've spent thousands of FTP units on cavalier crystals and it hasn't advanced my roster even a little bit lol. Zero 6*s, old 5* dupes and featured 3*s lol. I'm out on those crystals for awhile. Just going to have to get it done with bad 6*s and older 5*s I guess. Not fussed about the gates though.
    Same here. The thousands of F2P units we spend on cavalier crystals simply cannot compete at the level of a spender willing to spend to buy 6*s, which is what Act 6 requires if you want to complete it in a timely fashion. As I did the math elsewhere, it is about 20 weeks of arena grinding for a f2p player to obtain a 6* from cavalier crystals bought with units obtained through f2p grinding.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,247 ★★★★★
    Ultra8529 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Longtimegamer said:

    Kabam wants to remove all gates and restrictions from Act 6 and let us bring whoever we want. I do not agree with this at all! What do you think @GroundedWisdom ?

    Nice try. That's not on the table. Sure, they're going to open the floodgates and allow people to finish Cavalier with 4*s before they even have a 5* Roster, and start building a 6* one. Then they'll reduce all game modes to 1 move on Auto Fight, and make the Rewards a 6* of your choice. That would be great for the internal structure and progression as a whole.
    But if Kabam did do that, you know you would support it lol.

    Side question, how many policies implemented by the Game Team have you ever expressed disagreement with?
    No I wouldn't support it. I already said it would be irresponsible Resource balancing if they did.
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    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,026 ★★★★★
    Ultra8529 said:

    LeNoirFaineant said:

    Ultra8529 said:

    Endgame must be understood in context. With this move Kabam has basically affirmed that "endgame" has two subtiers:

    Endgame-spender: 0 arena but can spend 30k units on 100 cavalier crystals a week, getting 1 6* each week. Can push ahead with massive 6* rosters to clear 6.2 instantly. Will spend to clear where skills are lacking.

    Endgame-f2p: grind arena, quests and can spend about 1k units on 5 cavalier crystals a week. Gets about 1 6* from 20 weeks of grinding. Will have to wait months before attempting 6.2 at an efficient rate even with god-tier skills.

    I've spent thousands of FTP units on cavalier crystals and it hasn't advanced my roster even a little bit lol. Zero 6*s, old 5* dupes and featured 3*s lol. I'm out on those crystals for awhile. Just going to have to get it done with bad 6*s and older 5*s I guess. Not fussed about the gates though.
    Same here. The thousands of F2P units we spend on cavalier crystals simply cannot compete at the level of a spender willing to spend to buy 6*s, which is what Act 6 requires if you want to complete it in a timely fashion. As I did the math elsewhere, it is about 20 weeks of arena grinding for a f2p player to obtain a 6* from cavalier crystals bought with units obtained through f2p grinding.
    That's not true. You have to have RNG on your side. Watch. COWhale video. He opens 1000 cavalier crystals and doesn't get many. Seaton has opened close to 1000 and has only gotten 1 or 2. You could open 1 and get 1 or 500 and get zero.
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    Surfin_silverSurfin_silver Posts: 23 ★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Kerneas said:

    Looks interesting. The gate system is nice, but I gotta say that 5* and 6* shards aren't really that accessible. As a mid-game player (I just today completed 5.4.3), 6* shards are really hard to get. I know 6*s are meant to be rare, but my maximum is 1000/month, which isn't much. And I can't always get them all (I have no mood for Thanos, my intercepts are weak).

    To be fair, I don't think this is mid-game content. Also, there are 6 Paths without Gates, so people will be able to complete about 50% without them.
    Name a single valid reason for these gates that isnt involved with us buying cavaliers. Get the crust out of your eyes lol
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    GomezlinkGomezlink Posts: 216 ★

    Already thought, path that requires 4 mystics and the final boss will be the human torch ...
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    Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★
    Demonzfyre said:

    Ultra8529 said:

    LeNoirFaineant said:

    Ultra8529 said:

    Endgame must be understood in context. With this move Kabam has basically affirmed that "endgame" has two subtiers:

    Endgame-spender: 0 arena but can spend 30k units on 100 cavalier crystals a week, getting 1 6* each week. Can push ahead with massive 6* rosters to clear 6.2 instantly. Will spend to clear where skills are lacking.

    Endgame-f2p: grind arena, quests and can spend about 1k units on 5 cavalier crystals a week. Gets about 1 6* from 20 weeks of grinding. Will have to wait months before attempting 6.2 at an efficient rate even with god-tier skills.

    I've spent thousands of FTP units on cavalier crystals and it hasn't advanced my roster even a little bit lol. Zero 6*s, old 5* dupes and featured 3*s lol. I'm out on those crystals for awhile. Just going to have to get it done with bad 6*s and older 5*s I guess. Not fussed about the gates though.
    Same here. The thousands of F2P units we spend on cavalier crystals simply cannot compete at the level of a spender willing to spend to buy 6*s, which is what Act 6 requires if you want to complete it in a timely fashion. As I did the math elsewhere, it is about 20 weeks of arena grinding for a f2p player to obtain a 6* from cavalier crystals bought with units obtained through f2p grinding.
    That's not true. You have to have RNG on your side. Watch. COWhale video. He opens 1000 cavalier crystals and doesn't get many. Seaton has opened close to 1000 and has only gotten 1 or 2. You could open 1 and get 1 or 500 and get zero.
    I hope you're being sarcastic lol.
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    WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Surfin_silver said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Kerneas said:

    Looks interesting. The gate system is nice, but I gotta say that 5* and 6* shards aren't really that accessible. As a mid-game player (I just today completed 5.4.3), 6* shards are really hard to get. I know 6*s are meant to be rare, but my maximum is 1000/month, which isn't much. And I can't always get them all (I have no mood for Thanos, my intercepts are weak).

    To be fair, I don't think this is mid-game content. Also, there are 6 Paths without Gates, so people will be able to complete about 50% without them.
    Name a single valid reason for these gates that isnt involved with us buying cavaliers. Get the crust out of your eyes lol
    You don't have to buy anything. You can build a sufficient 5/6* roster naturally over time like most players will.
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    IKONIKON Posts: 1,336 ★★★★★
    Valid reason =/= Reason you agree with.
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    GabeGT5000GabeGT5000 Posts: 4 ★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    mostlyharmlessn said:

    IKON said:

    Are we really going to rehash the exact same argument we had about 6.1?

    Yes because we didn't learn from 6.1 that what we have to say makes no difference here....
    That's not true. Feedback is feedback, and it's taken into consideration. However, what we say doesn't design the game. There will be things implemented that people don't want.
    What is with you, why do you feel such a need to defend Kabam even with there sometimes unethical business practices
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,247 ★★★★★
    edited May 2019
    GabeGT5000 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    mostlyharmlessn said:

    IKON said:

    Are we really going to rehash the exact same argument we had about 6.1?

    Yes because we didn't learn from 6.1 that what we have to say makes no difference here....
    That's not true. Feedback is feedback, and it's taken into consideration. However, what we say doesn't design the game. There will be things implemented that people don't want.
    What is with you, why do you feel such a need to defend Kabam even with there sometimes unethical business practices
    You call making new content have requirements "unethical", however I consider it bad design if the requirements for next-level content aren't greater than the previous level. The reactions are being blown out of proportion by people who, a number of which aren't even there yet, and a good number who are there and are worried about pulling the best Champs and not what is required. Then there are a number starting the Doomsday Clock because of what this might mean for the future. Sorry, but the gates make a great deal of sense to me. If you don't have a certain level of Roster, you're not at that stage in the game, and shouldn't be. They're not even that restrictive. You need up to 4 6*s and Classes of 5*s.
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    JRock808JRock808 Posts: 1,149 ★★★★
    Same handful people thinking this is fine despite the vast majority thinking it is completely unnecessary. And the constant back and forth between them.

    So, same stuff, different day. What a great community!
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    WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    edited May 2019
    xNig said:

    JRock808 said:

    Same handful people thinking this is fine despite the vast majority thinking it is completely unnecessary. And the constant back and forth between them.

    So, same stuff, different day. What a great community!

    Except the fact that the vast majority aren’t at the end of the game yet
    But bro, initial clear of 6.1 is endgame. They said it and everything....
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    IKONIKON Posts: 1,336 ★★★★★
    JRock808 said:

    Same handful people thinking this is fine despite the vast majority thinking it is completely unnecessary. And the constant back and forth between them.

    So, same stuff, different day. What a great community!

    Right, because it a majority are in favor of it, it has to be good right?

    There are countless examples where the majority are completely wrong, and just being a part of the majority does not make you right.

    A perfect example of this is professional sports bettors. People that make a living on gambling simply because the public is always wrong.

    Listen to the dissenting opinions. Think about WHY they dissent. I personally like gating because it creates a new challenge, and simultaneously requires a large depth of roster.
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    IKONIKON Posts: 1,336 ★★★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    xNig said:

    JRock808 said:

    Same handful people thinking this is fine despite the vast majority thinking it is completely unnecessary. And the constant back and forth between them.

    So, same stuff, different day. What a great community!

    Except the fact that the vast majority aren’t at the end of the game yet
    But bro, initial clear of 6.1 is endgame. They said it and everything....
    Please show me where they said that.
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    WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    IKON said:

    Worknprogress said:

    xNig said:

    JRock808 said:

    Same handful people thinking this is fine despite the vast majority thinking it is completely unnecessary. And the constant back and forth between them.

    So, same stuff, different day. What a great community!

    Except the fact that the vast majority aren’t at the end of the game yet
    But bro, initial clear of 6.1 is endgame. They said it and everything....
    Please show me where they said that.
    It was sarcasm related to another person's post
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    IKONIKON Posts: 1,336 ★★★★★
    Worknprogress said:

    IKON said:

    Worknprogress said:

    xNig said:

    JRock808 said:

    Same handful people thinking this is fine despite the vast majority thinking it is completely unnecessary. And the constant back and forth between them.

    So, same stuff, different day. What a great community!

    Except the fact that the vast majority aren’t at the end of the game yet
    But bro, initial clear of 6.1 is endgame. They said it and everything....
    Please show me where they said that.
    It was sarcasm related to another person's post
    Ah, I see.
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    TheVyrusTheVyrus Posts: 418 ★★★
    edited May 2019
    Everyone complains that Kabam is out of touch because they force the use of 6* champs and do not upgrade the rewards. Incorrect. They are more in touch than you, see they realize it doesn't matter what they do everyone will keep playing and better yet keep spending.
    They know you will all come here or another outlet complain and then go right back to feeding the machine.
    Not saying either side is right or wrong, just observing.
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