Was enemy AI intentionally changed to make backdraft intercepts no longer workable?

Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★
Yes or no - we need a clear answer. While I can understand that it may take time to locate and replicate this bug (if it is a bug), it should be possible to tell instantly whether there was ever an intention to change the enemy AI. Let's solve this issue one step at a time.

For a moderator's response please.

Comments

  • ReferenceReference Posts: 481


    I think so too in some scenarios as I was using backdraft intercept frequently before.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,458 ★★★★★
    Considering they were working on resolving it in the 23.0 Update, no. It was not intentionally changed. It was a known issue as far back as at least April. What you're looking for is confirmation of a conspiracy.
  • SeraphionSeraphion Posts: 187
    I was so mad when thanos killed me over and over when I tried it. I thought Im just too slown or something. It has to be a bug where the AI recovers too fast. Wasnt there also a bug when you hit them into their block they could throw SPs at you? It had something to do with recovery time as well when I remember right
  • GluteusMaximusGluteusMaximus Posts: 820 ★★★
    Ultra8529 said:

    Yes or no - we need a clear answer. While I can understand that it may take time to locate and replicate this bug (if it is a bug), it should be possible to tell instantly whether there was ever an intention to change the enemy AI. Let's solve this issue one step at a time.

    For a moderator's response please.

    Are you speaking of after the maintenance last night? Cause I had no issues backdraft intercepting (or wall bouncing, or straight intercept, or hitting into a block, or whatever) just now during my exploration of UC EQ Sym Spidey, and believe me I'd know: I'm using Night Thrasher with Darkhawk/GR synergy, so it's dash/medium/medium/backdraft/repeat. I hit every one of those scenarios trying to stay clear of that languor fun while smacking Spidey with unstoppable dash mediums. Perhaps a video or scenario would help quantify the issue you have.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 3,560 ★★★★
    It was a matter of improvements to the speed of the game, not to "intentionally brake" anything. I am not even sure if "backdraft intercept" was able to be done intentionally, or through an unintended consequence of AI behavior and device latency, but was seen as acceptable by the game.

    If the latter was the case then that explains why the performance boost the game saw a few months back caused backdrafters to have difficulties.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,458 ★★★★★
    Ultra8529 said:

    Considering they were working on resolving it in the 23.0 Update, no. It was not intentionally changed. It was a known issue as far back as at least April. What you're looking for is confirmation of a conspiracy.

    Not sure where my reply went... Posting this again to reply lol.

    I think you are talking about something else.

    What is reflected as a known issue in the 23.0 update refers to a separate intercepting technique that is very similar but actually different. That technique I shall call "wall-bouncing". Basically it works by doing 3-4 hits into an enemy (not into their block), dashing back and then dashing back in for the intercept. Although it is called the wall bounce, it technically can work even when the opponent is not up against the wall. However, the risk with this technique when the opponent is not against the wall is that it might not work, and you might get punished.

    The wall bounce technique was broken also around the same time as the endgame patch. However this was shortly after fixed, probably in the 23.0 patch update as you have pointed out.

    The technique that I am referring to - the backdraft intercept technique - does not involve hitting the opponent, but instead hits into their block. Also, because it works by throwing a light attack, it does not require the opponent to have their backs up against the wall. For this reason, the backdraft intercept technique is a lot more versatile and reliable than the wall bounce technique.

    The backdraft intercept technique was broken around the same time as the wall bounce intercept technique, but it was unfortunately never fixed together with the wall bounce technique.

    As for your last allegation - no I am not looking for confirmation of a conspiracy. In fact I am giving every opportunity to clear up and prevent any such conspiracy theory from arising in the first place. The conspiracy theory, if any, is that Kabam is secretly modifying AI to make certain techniques not workable. I am giving them the clear chance to state for the record that this change was not intended, and therefore quash any conspiracy theory in the nub.
    The backdraft-intercept technique is what they were investigating and trying to fix. I'm quite sure I read that properly in the Patch Notes.
    You're giving them the opportunity to end a conspiracy? That's kind of you.
  • Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★

    Ultra8529 said:

    Considering they were working on resolving it in the 23.0 Update, no. It was not intentionally changed. It was a known issue as far back as at least April. What you're looking for is confirmation of a conspiracy.

    Not sure where my reply went... Posting this again to reply lol.

    I think you are talking about something else.

    What is reflected as a known issue in the 23.0 update refers to a separate intercepting technique that is very similar but actually different. That technique I shall call "wall-bouncing". Basically it works by doing 3-4 hits into an enemy (not into their block), dashing back and then dashing back in for the intercept. Although it is called the wall bounce, it technically can work even when the opponent is not up against the wall. However, the risk with this technique when the opponent is not against the wall is that it might not work, and you might get punished.

    The wall bounce technique was broken also around the same time as the endgame patch. However this was shortly after fixed, probably in the 23.0 patch update as you have pointed out.

    The technique that I am referring to - the backdraft intercept technique - does not involve hitting the opponent, but instead hits into their block. Also, because it works by throwing a light attack, it does not require the opponent to have their backs up against the wall. For this reason, the backdraft intercept technique is a lot more versatile and reliable than the wall bounce technique.

    The backdraft intercept technique was broken around the same time as the wall bounce intercept technique, but it was unfortunately never fixed together with the wall bounce technique.

    As for your last allegation - no I am not looking for confirmation of a conspiracy. In fact I am giving every opportunity to clear up and prevent any such conspiracy theory from arising in the first place. The conspiracy theory, if any, is that Kabam is secretly modifying AI to make certain techniques not workable. I am giving them the clear chance to state for the record that this change was not intended, and therefore quash any conspiracy theory in the nub.
    The backdraft-intercept technique is what they were investigating and trying to fix. I'm quite sure I read that properly in the Patch Notes.
    You're giving them the opportunity to end a conspiracy? That's kind of you.
    Yes they wrote "backdraft intercept". But that is just terminology. What they fixed was what I call "wall bounce". They did not fix the other technique which is the truest form of "backdraft intercept" and which I have described. The issue is not resolved and it is therefore crucial to get an official confirmation whether there was an intentional change to remove this technique from the player's toolkit.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 3,560 ★★★★
    Ultra8529 said:

    Ultra8529 said:

    Considering they were working on resolving it in the 23.0 Update, no. It was not intentionally changed. It was a known issue as far back as at least April. What you're looking for is confirmation of a conspiracy.

    Not sure where my reply went... Posting this again to reply lol.

    I think you are talking about something else.

    What is reflected as a known issue in the 23.0 update refers to a separate intercepting technique that is very similar but actually different. That technique I shall call "wall-bouncing". Basically it works by doing 3-4 hits into an enemy (not into their block), dashing back and then dashing back in for the intercept. Although it is called the wall bounce, it technically can work even when the opponent is not up against the wall. However, the risk with this technique when the opponent is not against the wall is that it might not work, and you might get punished.

    The wall bounce technique was broken also around the same time as the endgame patch. However this was shortly after fixed, probably in the 23.0 patch update as you have pointed out.

    The technique that I am referring to - the backdraft intercept technique - does not involve hitting the opponent, but instead hits into their block. Also, because it works by throwing a light attack, it does not require the opponent to have their backs up against the wall. For this reason, the backdraft intercept technique is a lot more versatile and reliable than the wall bounce technique.

    The backdraft intercept technique was broken around the same time as the wall bounce intercept technique, but it was unfortunately never fixed together with the wall bounce technique.

    As for your last allegation - no I am not looking for confirmation of a conspiracy. In fact I am giving every opportunity to clear up and prevent any such conspiracy theory from arising in the first place. The conspiracy theory, if any, is that Kabam is secretly modifying AI to make certain techniques not workable. I am giving them the clear chance to state for the record that this change was not intended, and therefore quash any conspiracy theory in the nub.
    The backdraft-intercept technique is what they were investigating and trying to fix. I'm quite sure I read that properly in the Patch Notes.
    You're giving them the opportunity to end a conspiracy? That's kind of you.
    Yes they wrote "backdraft intercept". But that is just terminology. What they fixed was what I call "wall bounce". They did not fix the other technique which is the truest form of "backdraft intercept" and which I have described. The issue is not resolved and it is therefore crucial to get an official confirmation whether there was an intentional change to remove this technique from the player's toolkit.
    If it was intentional or not matters not. Trying to claim it is crucial is just being intellectually dishonest. What you should instead want is if they intend not to change it back, but that does not feed into your conspiracy theory nature.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,458 ★★★★★
    You can word it how you like, but it just reads as trying to call them out for someone else's conspiracy. I highly doubt you'll get the response you're looking for.
  • PanicndstreetsPanicndstreets Posts: 36
    Just gotta deal with it. They’re not going to fix anything that gives the AI an advantage. The game has a ton of bugs that have been around for a while. The contest is alive and AI is constantly trying to learn your play style so it can beat you and make you spend. It’s a business not a game.
  • Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Ultra8529 said:

    Ultra8529 said:

    Considering they were working on resolving it in the 23.0 Update, no. It was not intentionally changed. It was a known issue as far back as at least April. What you're looking for is confirmation of a conspiracy.

    Not sure where my reply went... Posting this again to reply lol.

    I think you are talking about something else.

    What is reflected as a known issue in the 23.0 update refers to a separate intercepting technique that is very similar but actually different. That technique I shall call "wall-bouncing". Basically it works by doing 3-4 hits into an enemy (not into their block), dashing back and then dashing back in for the intercept. Although it is called the wall bounce, it technically can work even when the opponent is not up against the wall. However, the risk with this technique when the opponent is not against the wall is that it might not work, and you might get punished.

    The wall bounce technique was broken also around the same time as the endgame patch. However this was shortly after fixed, probably in the 23.0 patch update as you have pointed out.

    The technique that I am referring to - the backdraft intercept technique - does not involve hitting the opponent, but instead hits into their block. Also, because it works by throwing a light attack, it does not require the opponent to have their backs up against the wall. For this reason, the backdraft intercept technique is a lot more versatile and reliable than the wall bounce technique.

    The backdraft intercept technique was broken around the same time as the wall bounce intercept technique, but it was unfortunately never fixed together with the wall bounce technique.

    As for your last allegation - no I am not looking for confirmation of a conspiracy. In fact I am giving every opportunity to clear up and prevent any such conspiracy theory from arising in the first place. The conspiracy theory, if any, is that Kabam is secretly modifying AI to make certain techniques not workable. I am giving them the clear chance to state for the record that this change was not intended, and therefore quash any conspiracy theory in the nub.
    The backdraft-intercept technique is what they were investigating and trying to fix. I'm quite sure I read that properly in the Patch Notes.
    You're giving them the opportunity to end a conspiracy? That's kind of you.
    Yes they wrote "backdraft intercept". But that is just terminology. What they fixed was what I call "wall bounce". They did not fix the other technique which is the truest form of "backdraft intercept" and which I have described. The issue is not resolved and it is therefore crucial to get an official confirmation whether there was an intentional change to remove this technique from the player's toolkit.
    If it was intentional or not matters not. Trying to claim it is crucial is just being intellectually dishonest. What you should instead want is if they intend not to change it back, but that does not feed into your conspiracy theory nature.
    I don't understand how there is intellectual dishonesty. If we can confirm that the change was intentional, then we can rule out it being a bug.

    You can word it how you like, but it just reads as trying to call them out for someone else's conspiracy. I highly doubt you'll get the response you're looking for.

    Same with you, whose conspiracy are you even referring to? And "I can word it as I like"? I'm trying my best to explain to you the two different techniques of intercepting. It seems to me you aren't even aware of the nuances of skills that are available in this game. Take it from me that what they fixed in the 23.0 patch is not the technique that I am referring to. It used to be doable, now its not. All I'm trying to figure out is if that was an intentional change.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 3,560 ★★★★
    @Ultra8529 my issue is you trying to claim them coming here to specifically end a conspiracy theory is "crucial". All you need to know is if they are going to make that technique possible again or not. That will tell as much as you need to know.
  • Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Ultra8529 said:

    Ultra8529 said:

    Considering they were working on resolving it in the 23.0 Update, no. It was not intentionally changed. It was a known issue as far back as at least April. What you're looking for is confirmation of a conspiracy.

    Not sure where my reply went... Posting this again to reply lol.

    I think you are talking about something else.

    What is reflected as a known issue in the 23.0 update refers to a separate intercepting technique that is very similar but actually different. That technique I shall call "wall-bouncing". Basically it works by doing 3-4 hits into an enemy (not into their block), dashing back and then dashing back in for the intercept. Although it is called the wall bounce, it technically can work even when the opponent is not up against the wall. However, the risk with this technique when the opponent is not against the wall is that it might not work, and you might get punished.

    The wall bounce technique was broken also around the same time as the endgame patch. However this was shortly after fixed, probably in the 23.0 patch update as you have pointed out.

    The technique that I am referring to - the backdraft intercept technique - does not involve hitting the opponent, but instead hits into their block. Also, because it works by throwing a light attack, it does not require the opponent to have their backs up against the wall. For this reason, the backdraft intercept technique is a lot more versatile and reliable than the wall bounce technique.

    The backdraft intercept technique was broken around the same time as the wall bounce intercept technique, but it was unfortunately never fixed together with the wall bounce technique.

    As for your last allegation - no I am not looking for confirmation of a conspiracy. In fact I am giving every opportunity to clear up and prevent any such conspiracy theory from arising in the first place. The conspiracy theory, if any, is that Kabam is secretly modifying AI to make certain techniques not workable. I am giving them the clear chance to state for the record that this change was not intended, and therefore quash any conspiracy theory in the nub.
    The backdraft-intercept technique is what they were investigating and trying to fix. I'm quite sure I read that properly in the Patch Notes.
    You're giving them the opportunity to end a conspiracy? That's kind of you.
    Yes they wrote "backdraft intercept". But that is just terminology. What they fixed was what I call "wall bounce". They did not fix the other technique which is the truest form of "backdraft intercept" and which I have described. The issue is not resolved and it is therefore crucial to get an official confirmation whether there was an intentional change to remove this technique from the player's toolkit.
    If it was intentional or not matters not. Trying to claim it is crucial is just being intellectually dishonest. What you should instead want is if they intend not to change it back, but that does not feed into your conspiracy theory nature.
    I don't get how there is any intellectual dishonesty. If we can get a confirmation that this change was intended, then we can rule out that it was a bug and everyone can move on with their lives on this basis. Conspiracy of a silent nerf to player toolkit will be quashed.

    I don't understand either why I should want them to "intend not to change it back". I would actually very much like them to revert the game to how it was for the past 4 years so I can go back to doing my backdraft intercepts which was a mainstay of my toolkit against stun immune champs.

    You can word it how you like, but it just reads as trying to call them out for someone else's conspiracy. I highly doubt you'll get the response you're looking for.

    And you too - what are you talking about referring to "someone else's conspiracy"? I am not calling anyone out here. It seems to me that you aren't aware of the nuances and the differences involved between the two intercepting techniques that I have referred to.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,458 ★★★★★
    You can word it how you like yes. Someone implied they changed it intentionally and you are "giving them" the opportunity to squash it. Calling them out on it. It's the same, old conspiracy that always floats around. They're messing with the AI behind our backs. Any issues, and people think they're implanted to make money.
  • Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    @Ultra8529 my issue is you trying to claim them coming here to specifically end a conspiracy theory is "crucial". All you need to know is if they are going to make that technique possible again or not. That will tell as much as you need to know.

    Maybe "crucial" is the wrong word then? My point is just that it would be extremely helpful to everyone in the community who is wondering whether this was an intentional change or if it is a bug. A confirmation that it was intentional will just let everyone gain closure and move on and adapt from there.
  • Ultra8529Ultra8529 Posts: 526 ★★★

    You can word it how you like yes. Someone implied they changed it intentionally and you are "giving them" the opportunity to squash it. Calling them out on it. It's the same, old conspiracy that always floats around. They're messing with the AI behind our backs. Any issues, and people think they're implanted to make money.

    Asking a question is calling out? It is giving the perfect and easy opportunity to clear the air. I really don't see how else communication is expected to work. We have questions, we ask them. Hopefully we get answers.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 3,560 ★★★★
    Ultra8529 said:

    Lormif said:

    @Ultra8529 my issue is you trying to claim them coming here to specifically end a conspiracy theory is "crucial". All you need to know is if they are going to make that technique possible again or not. That will tell as much as you need to know.

    Maybe "crucial" is the wrong word then? My point is just that it would be extremely helpful to everyone in the community who is wondering whether this was an intentional change or if it is a bug. A confirmation that it was intentional will just let everyone gain closure and move on and adapt from there.
    Then maybe dont be so incendiary and conspiracy driven when you ask a question. Dont use caps lock (yelling)
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,458 ★★★★★
    If the question is accusational and based on a conspiracy theory, when they've responded to the theory umpteen times in the past, yes.
  • Nope, enemy AI was not intentionally changed to prevent backdraft intercepts from working.
This discussion has been closed.