Is there an algorithm to rank up and awakening gems?

I had 2 mystic awakening gems, and I purposely used one to anti-kabam myself with a 3rd. What do I pull? Another mystic awakening gem.

Is there an algorithm that makes us get redundancies in these gems? I also got a cosmic 4-5 gem when I definitely don't need it.

What gives boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii?
«1

Comments

  • belli300belli300 Posts: 634 ★★★
    I have 4 5* cosmic awakening gems in my inventory.
  • Fred_JoeityFred_Joeity Posts: 759 ★★★
    Conspiracy confirmed?
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 5,858 ★★★★★
    Random results are random but can be the same result.
  • Kerneas said:

    Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
    1) pick random number from 1-6
    2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...

    Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

    We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
    Interesting response. You realize psychic powers and a programmed algorithm are two totally separate things? One is spiritual and the other is mathematical.

    Anyways, thought I’d ask the question! I see patterns of this happening with many folks. I’m expecting a “trade 3 AG for 1” type crystal soon. Haha
  • Kerneas said:

    Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
    1) pick random number from 1-6
    2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...

    Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

    We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
    I used the very same analogy, lol. Yes, Kabam has a self aware system that taps into the powers of various Mutant characters in game to look DEEP within the mind of the player to avoid giving you what you wanted, lol. The RNG system couldn't possibly be the cause of this. I heard aluminum foil helmets shaped like Magneto's can help avoid this though 😂😂😂. (Magneto Cosplayers have the best luck)

    But seriously, bad luck is a thing. It does happen. The RNG doesn't like to give me Cosmic 5* champs very often for example. When it does, it's NOT Corvus, lol. Though deep down I do very much want him, I don't for a second think the RNG system is purposefully handing me Venompool in place of Corvus. Just bad luck with Cosmic champs. I've landed a myriad of classes with rank up gems so I guess I got the luck there. Best wishes to all on your future crystals!
  • KerneasKerneas Posts: 399 ★★
    edited August 20

    Kerneas said:

    Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
    1) pick random number from 1-6
    2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...

    Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

    We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
    I'd actually love to see how programmed the rng system is. I know only very basics of programming, but description of the logic operations would be much appreciated amd I think it might help some players (well, myself at least) understand it and stop blaming you for being Psychic :wink:
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,005 ★★★★★
    Werewrym said:

    @Kabam Miike planning his next move...


    Okay, that one's funny. Sorry Miike. XD
  • DarkestDestroyerDarkestDestroyer Posts: 2,526 ★★★★

    Kerneas said:

    Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
    1) pick random number from 1-6
    2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...

    Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

    We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
    You cannot read our minds and see what we crave, but programming can, just like online slots, gambling, whatever, it’s A.I, I believe all games are programmed with some algorithm, and it’s not a bad thing. It’s realistic.

    I’m not calling conspiracy, but maybe you don’t know how it’s programmed in some sections of the game, I mean with some monthly events and nodes, 99% think the devs don’t even play test things or think before adding it in.

    This has turned into a bad comment, i don’t mean it to be, but even documents have shown you have had algorithms, so it makes sense there will be some.

    Nothing against it, my luck is hit and miss, like everyone’s, I went from 1 Crystal to get Patriot, popped the next for a 5* Fury; I got a Mystic AG with no one to use it on, my SS, MS, Mordo, Hood etc are duped r5s/r4s, then I pull Magik (FINALLY!) and got Dorm, 2 decent options.

    So I personally think they are active, but so what; it’s a normal thing.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,005 ★★★★★

    Kerneas said:

    Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
    1) pick random number from 1-6
    2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...

    Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

    We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
    You cannot read our minds and see what we crave, but programming can, just like online slots, gambling, whatever, it’s A.I, I believe all games are programmed with some algorithm, and it’s not a bad thing. It’s realistic.

    I’m not calling conspiracy, but maybe you don’t know how it’s programmed in some sections of the game, I mean with some monthly events and nodes, 99% think the devs don’t even play test things or think before adding it in.

    This has turned into a bad comment, i don’t mean it to be, but even documents have shown you have had algorithms, so it makes sense there will be some.

    Nothing against it, my luck is hit and miss, like everyone’s, I went from 1 Crystal to get Patriot, popped the next for a 5* Fury; I got a Mystic AG with no one to use it on, my SS, MS, Mordo, Hood etc are duped r5s/r4s, then I pull Magik (FINALLY!) and got Dorm, 2 decent options.

    So I personally think they are active, but so what; it’s a normal thing.
    First of all, Miike is more than a Moderator. He has other responsibilities, so he's not just repeating responses.
    Secondly, I'm not sure what documents you're referring to. If you mean the Patents that were applied for, that's been explained long ago. Companies apply for as many Patents as they can when starting out. It's even been debunked by Ad0ra as not in use. Yet people still reference them.
    There's no algorithm at play. Gems are as close to a true random as the RNG gets. 17% chance at 1 of 6 Classes each roll.
  • TheBestinTuakauTheBestinTuakau Posts: 152
    Werewrym said:

    @Kabam Miike planning his next move...


    Should put it on the meme thread
  • WerewrymWerewrym Posts: 2,190 Guardian

    Werewrym said:

    @Kabam Miike planning his next move...


    Should put it on the meme thread
    Yeah I thought about it, but I made it specifically for this thread. Maybe I'll throw it in there at some point.
  • dtapedtape Posts: 26

    I had 2 mystic awakening gems, and I purposely used one to anti-kabam myself with a 3rd. What do I pull? Another mystic awakening gem.

    Is there an algorithm that makes us get redundancies in these gems? I also got a cosmic 4-5 gem when I definitely don't need it.

    What gives boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii?

    I just pulled the 6th Mystic 5* awakening gem out of 9 I’ve got. I still believe Kabam’s rng is fair.

    I hope so.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,185 Guardian

    Kerneas said:

    Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
    1) pick random number from 1-6
    2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...

    Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

    We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
    You cannot read our minds and see what we crave, but programming can, just like online slots, gambling, whatever, it’s A.I, I believe all games are programmed with some algorithm, and it’s not a bad thing. It’s realistic.

    I’m not calling conspiracy, but maybe you don’t know how it’s programmed in some sections of the game, I mean with some monthly events and nodes, 99% think the devs don’t even play test things or think before adding it in.

    This has turned into a bad comment, i don’t mean it to be, but even documents have shown you have had algorithms, so it makes sense there will be some.

    Nothing against it, my luck is hit and miss, like everyone’s, I went from 1 Crystal to get Patriot, popped the next for a 5* Fury; I got a Mystic AG with no one to use it on, my SS, MS, Mordo, Hood etc are duped r5s/r4s, then I pull Magik (FINALLY!) and got Dorm, 2 decent options.

    So I personally think they are active, but so what; it’s a normal thing.
    I'm afraid thinking that AI algorithms govern things like slots and gambling is a conspiracy theory. That doesn't happen. In most venues it would be illegal.

    You also bring up the patents that form the basis of many conspiracy theories. The problem there is that it seems no one has actually read the patents, just the titles. First of all those patents don't describe algorithms that could likely be used in a game like MCOC. Second of all those patents do describe algorithms no one accuses Kabam of using because it doesn't fit the narrative of greedy criminals. And third, no one seems to have thought through the idea that if the algorithm is patented, their theory that all online game companies have been using algorithms like that for years becomes instantly false. Kabam can't patent an idea others have been using for years, those other companies would immediately challenge the patent if they tried, and if the patent is upheld no one else could be using it. Also, Kabam is being accused of using such algorithms since basically the beginning of the game, and yet the patents for them were filed after MCOC released.

    Also, some inside ball, as I used to work in the intellectual property field. If Kabam were using the patented algorithms in MCOC, they would have specified MCOC either directly or indirectly as a use case. If you read the patents, they don't. This means the person who drafted the patent wasn't even thinking about MCOC when they wrote it, and they would have been informed of every internal use case of the patent anyone could think of, to make the patent as broad as possible in its coverage.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,185 Guardian
    Kerneas said:

    Kerneas said:

    Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
    1) pick random number from 1-6
    2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...

    Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

    We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
    I'd actually love to see how programmed the rng system is. I know only very basics of programming, but description of the logic operations would be much appreciated amd I think it might help some players (well, myself at least) understand it and stop blaming you for being Psychic :wink:
    If you've never worked on a game like MCOC, you might be surprised to know that almost all of the game that you'd consider to be "the game" that isn't an art asset (graphics, sound, animation) is actually not "programmed." It is usually created in Excel.

    This is how I assume MCOC works (I've never worked on MCOC, so I don't have first hand knowledge), which is how a lot of games like it work. Games like this are actually created in a lot of layers, but for our purposes here there's three: the engine, the customization layer, and the content layer. The engine is what you'd call the "software" - what's "programmed." Actual programmers work on this, although often huge chunks of it are licensed - things like Unity, or the Unreal Engine, etc. The customization layer is all the stuff written on top of the engine, either with code or with scripting languages, and sometimes meta embedded languages. Think of these like Excel macros. Excel is the program, but people who use Excel can create programmy-like macros within their spreadsheets to make them work in certain custom ways.

    Then there's the content. Content is a fill-in-the-blank Mad-libs thing. There are spreadsheets that define how champions work, say. To make a new champion you follow the same structure and fill in the right columns with the right data. Some macro tool chain thing then takes the spreadsheet and converts it into the raw data the game actually needs, and then it is loaded into the engine.

    Reward tables are just tables in Excel. A 5* AG crystal is probably defined as something like

    5_star_ag_crystal
    contains: 5_star_ag_reward_table

    And then there's the reward table:

    5_star_ag_reward_table:
    5_star_mystic_awaken 1
    5_star_cosmic_awaken 1
    5_star_tech_awaken 1
    5_star_mutant_awaken 1
    5_star_skill_awaken 1
    5_star_science_awaken 1

    The game has internal logic that says when someone is awarded the 5_star_ag_reward the random reward function picks one reward from its reward table. The rewards are listed with "weights." Each reward has weight 1, so the reward engine adds up the weights and then partitions the random space based on the weights. So there's a 1 out of 6 chance for mystic, a 1 out of 6 chance for cosmic, etc.

    If you want a crystal to have a 99% chance of dropping a 4* champ and a 1% chance for 5* champ?

    4_5_lottery_ticket:
    4_star_basic_champ_reward_table 99
    5_star_basic_champ_reward_table 1

    Each of those "rewards" is itself a reward table, so the game goes off and does this again for those tables to determine your final reward.


    Incidentally, if Kabam was lying about the drops not being straight forward and instead being manipulated by complex algorithms, ever single developer who has ever worked on the spreadsheets that contain reward drops would know this, and all it would take would be one credible person to leak details of this on Reddit. BUT if someone tries to make this up without actual first hand knowledge, they are extremely likely to say something that careful dataminers could verify was false.
  • RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 477 ★★

    Kerneas said:

    Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
    1) pick random number from 1-6
    2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...

    Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

    We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
    This is rubbish. We all know the reason Kid Omega hasn’t been released yet is because you’re using him to to rig our gems. Obviously
  • winterthurwinterthur Posts: 3,600 ★★★★

    AG are the ones which always seem to defy RNG. You'll always get the one which ya don't need :-\

    It is T4CC for me.
  • KerneasKerneas Posts: 399 ★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Kerneas said:

    Kerneas said:

    Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
    1) pick random number from 1-6
    2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...

    Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

    We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
    I'd actually love to see how programmed the rng system is. I know only very basics of programming, but description of the logic operations would be much appreciated amd I think it might help some players (well, myself at least) understand it and stop blaming you for being Psychic :wink:
    If you've never worked on a game like MCOC, you might be surprised to know that almost all of the game that you'd consider to be "the game" that isn't an art asset (graphics, sound, animation) is actually not "programmed." It is usually created in Excel.

    This is how I assume MCOC works (I've never worked on MCOC, so I don't have first hand knowledge), which is how a lot of games like it work. Games like this are actually created in a lot of layers, but for our purposes here there's three: the engine, the customization layer, and the content layer. The engine is what you'd call the "software" - what's "programmed." Actual programmers work on this, although often huge chunks of it are licensed - things like Unity, or the Unreal Engine, etc. The customization layer is all the stuff written on top of the engine, either with code or with scripting languages, and sometimes meta embedded languages. Think of these like Excel macros. Excel is the program, but people who use Excel can create programmy-like macros within their spreadsheets to make them work in certain custom ways.

    Then there's the content. Content is a fill-in-the-blank Mad-libs thing. There are spreadsheets that define how champions work, say. To make a new champion you follow the same structure and fill in the right columns with the right data. Some macro tool chain thing then takes the spreadsheet and converts it into the raw data the game actually needs, and then it is loaded into the engine.

    Reward tables are just tables in Excel. A 5* AG crystal is probably defined as something like

    5_star_ag_crystal
    contains: 5_star_ag_reward_table

    And then there's the reward table:

    5_star_ag_reward_table:
    5_star_mystic_awaken 1
    5_star_cosmic_awaken 1
    5_star_tech_awaken 1
    5_star_mutant_awaken 1
    5_star_skill_awaken 1
    5_star_science_awaken 1

    The game has internal logic that says when someone is awarded the 5_star_ag_reward the random reward function picks one reward from its reward table. The rewards are listed with "weights." Each reward has weight 1, so the reward engine adds up the weights and then partitions the random space based on the weights. So there's a 1 out of 6 chance for mystic, a 1 out of 6 chance for cosmic, etc.

    If you want a crystal to have a 99% chance of dropping a 4* champ and a 1% chance for 5* champ?

    4_5_lottery_ticket:
    4_star_basic_champ_reward_table 99
    5_star_basic_champ_reward_table 1

    Each of those "rewards" is itself a reward table, so the game goes off and does this again for those tables to determine your final reward.


    Incidentally, if Kabam was lying about the drops not being straight forward and instead being manipulated by complex algorithms, ever single developer who has ever worked on the spreadsheets that contain reward drops would know this, and all it would take would be one credible person to leak details of this on Reddit. BUT if someone tries to make this up without actual first hand knowledge, they are extremely likely to say something that careful dataminers could verify was false.
    Wow, thanks for describing how it works ! I know this is still super-simplified, but it gave me the basic idea of how this (and many other) is structured. Just btw, have you ever programmed some game yourself ?
  • Username6435Username6435 Posts: 23
    Not exaggerating, my first 4 star champs were literally 5 in a row all cosmic and oh wow big surprise I got everything except cosmic upgrade materials for a good 2 months after that.
  • UmbertoDelRioUmbertoDelRio Posts: 2,040 ★★★★

    Kerneas said:

    Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
    1) pick random number from 1-6
    2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...

    Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

    We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
    You cannot read our minds and see what we crave, but programming can, just like online slots, gambling, whatever, it’s A.I, I believe all games are programmed with some algorithm, and it’s not a bad thing. It’s realistic.

    I’m not calling conspiracy, but maybe you don’t know how it’s programmed in some sections of the game, I mean with some monthly events and nodes, 99% think the devs don’t even play test things or think before adding it in.

    This has turned into a bad comment, i don’t mean it to be, but even documents have shown you have had algorithms, so it makes sense there will be some.

    Nothing against it, my luck is hit and miss, like everyone’s, I went from 1 Crystal to get Patriot, popped the next for a 5* Fury; I got a Mystic AG with no one to use it on, my SS, MS, Mordo, Hood etc are duped r5s/r4s, then I pull Magik (FINALLY!) and got Dorm, 2 decent options.

    So I personally think they are active, but so what; it’s a normal thing.
    First of all, Miike is more than a Moderator. He has other responsibilities, so he's not just repeating responses.
    Secondly, I'm not sure what documents you're referring to. If you mean the Patents that were applied for, that's been explained long ago. Companies apply for as many Patents as they can when starting out. It's even been debunked by Ad0ra as not in use. Yet people still reference them.
    There's no algorithm at play. Gems are as close to a true random as the RNG gets. 17% chance at 1 of 6 Classes each roll.
    First of all - you are not always correct; nor a spokesman, nor anything to do with Kabam.

    I wasn’t even expecting a response, I was just commenting.

    It’s strange too because before I did, i seen you in another thread and was going to post my own thread as to why the majority of posts get turned into an argument by yourself.

    And here, you have done it again.

    I’m not even interested, please just don’t reply to my comments, post your own going by the topic and initial post. Once you have done, just leave it alone.

    Please
    So you want to spout nonsense in an online forum without getting any kind of response?

    Genius.
  • Username6435Username6435 Posts: 23
    Maximizing cash profit means there is no random in casinos or mobile games. I'm no expert coder but some things are just common sense.
  • UmbertoDelRioUmbertoDelRio Posts: 2,040 ★★★★
    edited August 21

    Maximizing cash profit means there is no random in casinos or mobile games. I'm no expert coder but some things are just common sense.

    Something can be random and still have weighted outcomes.

    Classic roulette for example. The chance for the house winning is always higher no matter what you place your bet on. That does not mean it's not random.

    cOmMoN sEnsE

    EDIT: Which doesn't mean I think the rng is generally weighted in this game. There's literally no reasonable reason to assume that. It's just silly.
This discussion has been closed.