She-Hulk Heavy Speed Bug Fix [Title Edited for Clarity]

This is absolutely terrible. People ranked her for that reason only. She had a unique ability that’s absolutely not op, but of course Kabam has to nerf her...

Comments

Gamer

@Kabam Miike I’m slow hope you take the feedback because personally I’m think it wil be find she can do that she main core is that slow is need for somone node but one stun imuns you can’t get that esay one. So pliz considering and btw you wrong with all champ Hav the same speed because that not true at all

unknown

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DrGame

I only ranked her for the heavy chain.

Stagedear85

Even if it want in her description who would that matter you are acting like in every champs description they tell you all the combos possible with them

Well it matters because there's no indication that she was supposed to perform that way, and according to Kabam themselves, she wasn't, so... I love this point so what about domino description why when we issue a ticket that she wasn't preforming as intended they fix her description to match what they want can't they do the same for she hulk they're doing it for sym supreme their description said one thing but instead of fixing those champs to match description they did what change the description so how about change she hulk description to match what she's doing...

RagamugginGunner

@Kabam Miike

Lets talk about how multiple 'meme' tier champs amongst others also have the ability to combo into a heavy:
- superior iron man
- both versions of ultra
- venom
- unstoppable colossus

KT1 shows this footage - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CH31Kyyk7g

So why is it that now the only champion being altered is she hulk who makes some of the end game content easier?
So lets just accept that the testing of your champions is flawed and offer compensation to those who genuinely believed that this was a feature certain characters had.

What about other champs that have abilities that aren't listed in their descriptions? Will they be nerfed too?

Off the top of me head here are the champs that have those hidden abilities:
Both Dare Devils: Immune to invisibility
Both Mags, Unst Col, Juggs: Immune to inverted controls
Quake: Infinite heavy charging.
Ghost: Phase intercepting.
Magik: Remembering stolen power.
Both Cyc: Havoc immune.
Blade and Domino: Shuts off nodes pre-fight.

What am I missing?

Neotwism

We cant go by the comics. If we did Ghost Rider would be incinerate immune and may other champs would have immunities. Just cuz somethng happens in the comics doesnt mean it happens in the game.

Nick_Caine_32

@Kabam Miike

Lets talk about how multiple 'meme' tier champs amongst others also have the ability to combo into a heavy:
- superior iron man
- both versions of ultra
- venom
- unstoppable colossus

KT1 shows this footage - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CH31Kyyk7g

So why is it that now the only champion being altered is she hulk who makes some of the end game content easier?
So lets just accept that the testing of your champions is flawed and offer compensation to those who genuinely believed that this was a feature certain characters had.
What about other champs that have abilities that aren't listed in their descriptions? Will they be nerfed too?

Off the top of me head here are the champs that have those hidden abilities:
Both Dare Devils: Immune to invisibility
Both Mags, Unst Col, Juggs: Immune to inverted controls
Quake: Infinite heavy charging.
Ghost: Phase intercepting.
Magik: Remembering stolen power.
Both Cyc: Havoc immune.
Blade and Domino: Shuts off nodes pre-fight.

What am I missing?

Yeah i can't believe that statement hasn't had any clarification from the moderators because no one i know wants to rank up ANYONE right now after reading it. It opens such a rabbit hole going forward and it seems like the silence we're getting is the answer rather than doing the right thing here. There's tons of stuff not listed in the champ descriptions, so is that all considered a bug now? So anyone who doesn't have every single detail listed in theirs subject to changes now with no compensation at all?

Or is it that descriptions don't matter because of issues like Symbiote supreme? So that leaves both not safe to trust and players with literally no clarification or guarantee and always at the whim of whatever decision is handed down. And if this is the new way going forward, I am out. This isn't fun or what this game was ever about, but more and more lately it feels like that's the direction it's going. I just wasted a gem for no reason and i'm just feeling now like they A) don't care and

won't do anything to rectify the situation that I had no control over or warning about. Really it's just sad to see it go this way.

Kwizach

I emailed Kabam and apparently this is a new bug and not her ability for the last 3+ years. Smh.

Mr_Z

@Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Porthos Your silence is deafening?

1. Is the Kabam team at least going to pause this decision for a defined period of time to take the massive amount of community displeasure into consideration and discuss disregarding the decision or potential compensation?

2. Or, are we all to understand that this decision is final and no further consideration or discussion will be had?

Any response would be greatly appreciated?

KDoggg2017

I should note that I do not have a Shehulk. But I do have 6 T5Bs I don't feel comfortable using until I know Kabam will be fair with the resolution of this SheHulk issue.

DanveerKarna

@Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Porthos Your silence is deafening?

1. Is the Kabam team at least going to pause this decision for a defined period of time to take the massive amount of community displeasure into consideration and discuss disregarding the decision or potential compensation?

2. Or, are we all to understand that this decision is final and no further consideration or discussion will be had?

Any response would be greatly appreciated?

Probably waiting for the storm to calm down, as usual. Then push the nerf and enjoy popcorn while summoners digest and move on.

TheTalents

Wow KT1's video says it all. They all need massive reworks if this is an "unintended bug." Also, we still going to need those rank down tickets though. We're not getting off that either.

Patchie93

@Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Porthos Your silence is deafening?

1. Is the Kabam team at least going to pause this decision for a defined period of time to take the massive amount of community displeasure into consideration and discuss disregarding the decision or potential compensation?

2. Or, are we all to understand that this decision is final and no further consideration or discussion will be had?

Any response would be greatly appreciated?
Probably waiting for the storm to calm down, as usual. Then push the nerf and enjoy popcorn while summoners digest and move on.

You realize kabam commented 2 pages ago saying things were being discussed.

CFree

@Kabam Miike

Lets talk about how multiple 'meme' tier champs amongst others also have the ability to combo into a heavy:
- superior iron man
- both versions of ultra
- venom
- unstoppable colossus

KT1 shows this footage - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CH31Kyyk7g

So why is it that now the only champion being altered is she hulk who makes some of the end game content easier?
So lets just accept that the testing of your champions is flawed and offer compensation to those who genuinely believed that this was a feature certain characters had.
What about other champs that have abilities that aren't listed in their descriptions? Will they be nerfed too?

Off the top of me head here are the champs that have those hidden abilities:
Both Dare Devils: Immune to invisibility
Both Mags, Unst Col, Juggs: Immune to inverted controls
Quake: Infinite heavy charging.
Ghost: Phase intercepting.
Magik: Remembering stolen power.
Both Cyc: Havoc immune.
Blade and Domino: Shuts off nodes pre-fight.

What am I missing?

You’re wrong on inverted controls and quake and magik (if I understand “remembering stolen power”).

bloodyCain

Tbh, I didn't know any champion that can chain a Heavy attack at the end of the combo successfully each time other than Wasp....until now.

I did R4 her because she is useful but not because of the chaining thing.

Gagan324

Are we getting those rank down tickets?

Werewrym

One thing that I'm curious about... This whole nerf is based on the fact that She-Hulks abilities description does not state she can chain heavy attacks into a combo. Could you not use the same reasoning to abstain from nerfing her? I mean, it goes both ways and there are so many champs that can do things their descriptions do not state. If this nerf is happening at least fix the other champs that have descriptions inconsistent with the way their abilities actually function. It's all about consistency and it feels like Kabam has none.

Bronc0_

I recently took her to R4 with a Variant #3 Gem and would have preferred Quake if the fix had been announced earlier. I assume there are many summoners in the same situation.

Although she is a good solution to the Champion boss in 6.2, this fight can still only be done with a lot of skill. For me, as someone without KT1s skills, other champions were working even better. There is still a lot of skill required especially in fights like this.

As a minimum solution, at least give people some more time until the fix is implemented. On such short notice, I view this as an even worse decision.

Owlkit

I've played the game pretty much since the beginning. I've spent way way TOO much money on it. As you can see I very rarely post but keep updated on the going ons and controversies. Full disclosure, I am more the let's just hit "buttons" until I win the fight guy and not incredibly nuanced in my play. However, I am trying to work toward being a more intelligent and strategic player so I've been watching the online videos and look at building a well rounded roster of top champs to tackle content I haven't completed. If I am going to go beyond rank 3 on a 5 star champ I try to be smart about it. Hence why I ranked up my 5 star She-Hulk to eventually tackle 6.2.6.
I've never felt the need to "chime" in on the forum until now. I understand the need to truly tweak champs like the upcoming fixes to Human Torch and Annihilus. I am worried what will happen when they get to Cull and Namor though. My biggest issue about the She-Hulk nerf/fix/change/decimation/tweak is the uncertainty it causes in ranking up any champion (especially newer or recently updated ones) due to the fact they might be "fixed" to a point that a player feels cheated. This causes uncertainty and makes me want to spend less if not any money on the game. Investing money in the game shouldn't feel like playing the stock market.
My two cents.

CoatHang3r

Tell me, Kabam: How in the world am I supposed to know if a champion works as intended or not?

You can ask them, if you’re afraid to ask them that’s a good indicator it is unintended.

unknown

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kikiFurieux

We appreciate the discussion and everyone's feedback about this issue and ask that you all please remain constructive in your discussions.

The team is reviewing everyone's feedback and discussing this matter but does not have any additional information to share about the fix at this time.

let's wait and see then. Hopefully Kabam will understand that waiting years to fix a "bug" is not ok. Since we had no communication from Kabam on SH ability to chain heavy, players ranked her up thinking that it was working as intended. Just get her back to her previous state, create a 6* SH featured crystal and watch you wallet growing.
I don't understand how making your player base that angry will help your finances though...

jnikolas92

simply put. the cleanest resolution to this issue is a champion specific RDT.

we all agree that this is an unfortunate situation that negatively affected summoners. there was no way for us to confirm that the champ wasn't working as intended. the change is fine, no problem. let us recoup the resources used and move on.

this has the be conclusion that you come to.

Nick_Caine_32

One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
Do you really not remember any other instance where the description has been wrong? You are on the forums more than anyone, this should be easy.

Also, things confirmed by the game team to work as intended are also subject to being classified later as bugs, if you remember the archangel situation.

Please stop trying to divert conversation here, you have to see how this opens a whole bunch of threads they may not want to pull. There's literally video evidence from many content creators being shared on this which show a bunch of other champs being able to do this.

The problem is that we're entering territory where we can't trust the descriptions in game, what is told to us on the forums, or even characters who get buffs in a beta who have been in the game for years. That leaves a whole lot of ambiguity and opens kabam up to a lot of controversy and angry players. Why are you trying to argue in favor of that? What do you personally have to gain here?
That were wrong? Not many at all. Some were misunderstood. We don't have many inaccurate Descriptions to count.

Well you're wrong and there's a long history of them updating the descriptions or changing them after the fact, but let's move on here...

people have shared quite extensive lists here of champion abilities that are not listed in the official descriptions in game. Domino and Blade shutting down nodes is a big one and something I'm personally interested in getting clarification on, since I'm about to rank 4 my domino and have the resources to do it. But going off this situation here, if it's not in the official description, are you saying it's inaccurate and subject to changing? No matter how long it's been in the game or the character has had the ability? Is that what Kabam is saying? That's my point. Before we at least had something solid to base our decisions off of, and now I don't feel that is the case. Surely you can at least try to understand how frustrating this is.

Do you think they should go in and change all 7+ characters who could do the same thing she hulk does? Because it's not listed in their game descriptions and (according to you) inaccurate? Because that's a lot of rabbit holes they would need to go down and potentially a huge change in gameplay.

GroundedWisdom

One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
Do you really not remember any other instance where the description has been wrong? You are on the forums more than anyone, this should be easy.

Also, things confirmed by the game team to work as intended are also subject to being classified later as bugs, if you remember the archangel situation.

Please stop trying to divert conversation here, you have to see how this opens a whole bunch of threads they may not want to pull. There's literally video evidence from many content creators being shared on this which show a bunch of other champs being able to do this.

The problem is that we're entering territory where we can't trust the descriptions in game, what is told to us on the forums, or even characters who get buffs in a beta who have been in the game for years. That leaves a whole lot of ambiguity and opens kabam up to a lot of controversy and angry players. Why are you trying to argue in favor of that? What do you personally have to gain here?
That were wrong? Not many at all. Some were misunderstood. We don't have many inaccurate Descriptions to count.
Well you're wrong and there's a long history of them updating the descriptions or changing them after the fact, but let's move on here...

people have shared quite extensive lists here of champion abilities that are not listed in the official descriptions in game. Domino and Blade shutting down nodes is a big one and something I'm personally interested in getting clarification on, since I'm about to rank 4 my domino and have the resources to do it. But going off this situation here, if it's not in the official description, are you saying it's inaccurate and subject to changing? No matter how long it's been in the game or the character has had the ability? Is that what Kabam is saying? That's my point. Before we at least had something solid to base our decisions off of, and now I don't feel that is the case. Surely you can at least try to understand how frustrating this is.

Do you think they should go in and change all 7+ characters who could do the same thing she hulk does? Because it's not listed in their game descriptions and (according to you) inaccurate? Because that's a lot of rabbit holes they would need to go down and potentially a huge change in gameplay.

The comment I responded to was that people couldn't trust the Description because of SS. Which had very little to do with the Description, that was just the resolution they came to because increasing him to 100% would be too much. Now we've branched into an exaggeration of the situation where people are making jokes and Posts about how they can't trust who to Rank. If you're going to go the Description route, there was NO indication that Shulk was intended to cheese with Heavies like that, just word-of-mouth on how to use it in 6.2. It's not about the Description. It's about the effect. Rest assured, if there's something that is potentially OP, or provides a shortcut they don't want, it will be resolved. One thing is pretty clear. The Fight isn't meant to be that easy.

jnikolas92

One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
Do you really not remember any other instance where the description has been wrong? You are on the forums more than anyone, this should be easy.

Also, things confirmed by the game team to work as intended are also subject to being classified later as bugs, if you remember the archangel situation.

Please stop trying to divert conversation here, you have to see how this opens a whole bunch of threads they may not want to pull. There's literally video evidence from many content creators being shared on this which show a bunch of other champs being able to do this.

The problem is that we're entering territory where we can't trust the descriptions in game, what is told to us on the forums, or even characters who get buffs in a beta who have been in the game for years. That leaves a whole lot of ambiguity and opens kabam up to a lot of controversy and angry players. Why are you trying to argue in favor of that? What do you personally have to gain here?
That were wrong? Not many at all. Some were misunderstood. We don't have many inaccurate Descriptions to count.
Well you're wrong and there's a long history of them updating the descriptions or changing them after the fact, but let's move on here...

people have shared quite extensive lists here of champion abilities that are not listed in the official descriptions in game. Domino and Blade shutting down nodes is a big one and something I'm personally interested in getting clarification on, since I'm about to rank 4 my domino and have the resources to do it. But going off this situation here, if it's not in the official description, are you saying it's inaccurate and subject to changing? No matter how long it's been in the game or the character has had the ability? Is that what Kabam is saying? That's my point. Before we at least had something solid to base our decisions off of, and now I don't feel that is the case. Surely you can at least try to understand how frustrating this is.

Do you think they should go in and change all 7+ characters who could do the same thing she hulk does? Because it's not listed in their game descriptions and (according to you) inaccurate? Because that's a lot of rabbit holes they would need to go down and potentially a huge change in gameplay.
The comment I responded to was that people couldn't trust the Description because of SS. Which had very little to do with the Description, that was just the resolution they came to because increasing him to 100% would be too much. Now we've branched into an exaggeration of the situation where people are making jokes and Posts about how they can't trust who to Rank. If you're going to go the Description route, there was NO indication that Shulk was intended to cheese with Heavies like that, just word-of-mouth on how to use it in 6.2. It's not about the Description. It's about the effect. Rest assured, if there's something that is potentially OP, or provides a shortcut they don't want, it will be resolved. One thing is pretty clear. The Fight isn't meant to be that easy.

that goes the other way though. how are we supposed to know if a fight isn't meant to be easy? the fight still takes skill. i guarantee you nobody is waltzing in their first try with an r1 and sweeping the champion in a one shot. she happens to be a good counter for the fight. isn't that how the game works?

GroundedWisdom

One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
Do you really not remember any other instance where the description has been wrong? You are on the forums more than anyone, this should be easy.

Also, things confirmed by the game team to work as intended are also subject to being classified later as bugs, if you remember the archangel situation.

Please stop trying to divert conversation here, you have to see how this opens a whole bunch of threads they may not want to pull. There's literally video evidence from many content creators being shared on this which show a bunch of other champs being able to do this.

The problem is that we're entering territory where we can't trust the descriptions in game, what is told to us on the forums, or even characters who get buffs in a beta who have been in the game for years. That leaves a whole lot of ambiguity and opens kabam up to a lot of controversy and angry players. Why are you trying to argue in favor of that? What do you personally have to gain here?
That were wrong? Not many at all. Some were misunderstood. We don't have many inaccurate Descriptions to count.
Well you're wrong and there's a long history of them updating the descriptions or changing them after the fact, but let's move on here...

people have shared quite extensive lists here of champion abilities that are not listed in the official descriptions in game. Domino and Blade shutting down nodes is a big one and something I'm personally interested in getting clarification on, since I'm about to rank 4 my domino and have the resources to do it. But going off this situation here, if it's not in the official description, are you saying it's inaccurate and subject to changing? No matter how long it's been in the game or the character has had the ability? Is that what Kabam is saying? That's my point. Before we at least had something solid to base our decisions off of, and now I don't feel that is the case. Surely you can at least try to understand how frustrating this is.

Do you think they should go in and change all 7+ characters who could do the same thing she hulk does? Because it's not listed in their game descriptions and (according to you) inaccurate? Because that's a lot of rabbit holes they would need to go down and potentially a huge change in gameplay.
The comment I responded to was that people couldn't trust the Description because of SS. Which had very little to do with the Description, that was just the resolution they came to because increasing him to 100% would be too much. Now we've branched into an exaggeration of the situation where people are making jokes and Posts about how they can't trust who to Rank. If you're going to go the Description route, there was NO indication that Shulk was intended to cheese with Heavies like that, just word-of-mouth on how to use it in 6.2. It's not about the Description. It's about the effect. Rest assured, if there's something that is potentially OP, or provides a shortcut they don't want, it will be resolved. One thing is pretty clear. The Fight isn't meant to be that easy.
that goes the other way though. how are we supposed to know if a fight isn't meant to be easy? the fight still takes skill. i guarantee you nobody is waltzing in their first try with an r1 and sweeping the champion in a one shot. she happens to be a good counter for the fight. isn't that how the game works?

If it wasn't a significant enough shortcut, people wouldn't have rushed to Rank her.

VanillaCoke

The fact that you guys are taking this long to come up with the right decision, to me, it shows you care more about your “precious little end game content” than doing right by the community.

Now while it is technically true that you should not combo a heavy attack into your regular MLLL combo, you were already aware of this. It honestly should not take this long to either (1) reverse your decision, and leave She Hulk as she is or (2) decide to provide She Hulk Rank down tickets. You guys are supposed to provide good customer service, which you’re not. The golden rule of customer service is: The customer is always right. Now, some of the requests of the community can be outlandish but in this case - you should provide the community a rank down ticket for She Hulk or leave her as she is.

You should have already came up with this decision.

Nick_Caine_32

One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
One Descritpion that was wrong, and that means none can be trusted?
Do you really not remember any other instance where the description has been wrong? You are on the forums more than anyone, this should be easy.

Also, things confirmed by the game team to work as intended are also subject to being classified later as bugs, if you remember the archangel situation.

Please stop trying to divert conversation here, you have to see how this opens a whole bunch of threads they may not want to pull. There's literally video evidence from many content creators being shared on this which show a bunch of other champs being able to do this.

The problem is that we're entering territory where we can't trust the descriptions in game, what is told to us on the forums, or even characters who get buffs in a beta who have been in the game for years. That leaves a whole lot of ambiguity and opens kabam up to a lot of controversy and angry players. Why are you trying to argue in favor of that? What do you personally have to gain here?
That were wrong? Not many at all. Some were misunderstood. We don't have many inaccurate Descriptions to count.
Well you're wrong and there's a long history of them updating the descriptions or changing them after the fact, but let's move on here...

people have shared quite extensive lists here of champion abilities that are not listed in the official descriptions in game. Domino and Blade shutting down nodes is a big one and something I'm personally interested in getting clarification on, since I'm about to rank 4 my domino and have the resources to do it. But going off this situation here, if it's not in the official description, are you saying it's inaccurate and subject to changing? No matter how long it's been in the game or the character has had the ability? Is that what Kabam is saying? That's my point. Before we at least had something solid to base our decisions off of, and now I don't feel that is the case. Surely you can at least try to understand how frustrating this is.

Do you think they should go in and change all 7+ characters who could do the same thing she hulk does? Because it's not listed in their game descriptions and (according to you) inaccurate? Because that's a lot of rabbit holes they would need to go down and potentially a huge change in gameplay.
The comment I responded to was that people couldn't trust the Description because of SS. Which had very little to do with the Description, that was just the resolution they came to because increasing him to 100% would be too much. Now we've branched into an exaggeration of the situation where people are making jokes and Posts about how they can't trust who to Rank. If you're going to go the Description route, there was NO indication that Shulk was intended to cheese with Heavies like that, just word-of-mouth on how to use it in 6.2. It's not about the Description. It's about the effect. Rest assured, if there's something that is potentially OP, or provides a shortcut they don't want, it will be resolved. One thing is pretty clear. The Fight isn't meant to be that easy.

You are focusing on there being no description of an ability the champion is able to do, but you ignored my point about a lot of other champions having abilities not listed in their descriptions. So do you think all of those are unintended and OP and need to be changed as well? Scroll back a few pages, you'll see a small list of the biggest ones but there's lots more. Daredevil being blind. Cyclops/Havoc. Blade. Domino. The list literally goes on. Do those champions have bugged abilities as well, and if this is the case now based off this decision, should we wait to rank them up until kabam answers?

Do you not see what you're setting up here (or kabam potentially) with this thinking?

And clearly it's nice to see you double down on your SS opinion, but you're deflecting there too. I'm not arguing about the ability at 100% to be OP or not, others have done that with you. But you cannot say that this champion had a different description for the entire time he's been in the game. It's said 100% since his release. Now it's being changed. This is not up for debate, it's a fact. People who got him (myself) read his description and trusted it was correct, and even went a step further and checked the forum and spotlight. Now it's being changed. You might not agree with the REASONING behind that change, but you cannot argue it's a change from what he was released as.

She hulk was released years ago with this ability, like a ton of other champs in the game as you can see in many videos shared on here. Are all of those champions bugged now? Because under your definition of cheesing, they would all be able to do it. She hulk herself wasn't able to do it unless they had less than a bar of power. Same as the rest. Videos and 3+ years of gameplay experience tells us this. So what is it you're saying? You think they're all bugged and that entire method of combat (besides wasp because they wrote it in her game description) should be changed as well?

CoatHang3r

Tell me, Kabam: How in the world am I supposed to know if a champion works as intended or not?
You can ask them, if you’re afraid to ask them that’s a good indicator it is unintended.

Nope. Asking them won't do it. People asked about AA and were told specifically that it wasn't a bug...until it was.

Yup. Here’s the explanation for that one. I’ll add hap crappens, (this means noone’s perfect even if you believe they are.)

“Hey Everybody,

I'm sorry to report that a moderator gave you incorrect information when this was first reported. We know how important it is for us to be sure that we are giving you the most accurate information that we possibly can.

This was a bug, and although it was a long standing one, it doesn't mean that we didn't have to fix it. Archangel’s Stun was not acting like every other stun in the game.

The issue with having a Stun that does not act like a debuff is that it was causing a lot of problems, and with more new content and modes being added, this was becoming a bigger and bigger problem. Archangel was not only able to bypass Stun Immune nodes, but his stun would bypass other Champions abilities, like Agent Venom's Tenacity or Black Panther (Civil War)'s Reflect Stun, as well as not interact with Masteries like Willpower.

With this interaction becoming more and more prevalent in different game modes, we started seeing more of these problems come up, and this bug was one that became more of a priority.

We don’t have any plans to distribute Rank Down tickets as this is resolving a bug and not changing an intended fundamental Champion mechanic in a significant way.”