**WINTER OF WOE - BONUS OBJECTIVE POINT**
As previously announced, the team will be distributing an additional point toward milestones to anyone who completed the Absorbing Man fight in the first step of the Winter of Woe.
This point will be distributed at a later time as it requires the team to pull and analyze data.
The timeline has not been set, but work has started.
There is currently an issue where some Alliances are are unable to find a match in Alliance Wars, or are receiving Byes without getting the benefits of the Win. We will be adjusting the Season Points of the Alliances that are affected within the coming weeks, and will be working to compensate them for their missed Per War rewards as well.

Additionally, we are working to address an issue where new Members of an Alliance are unable to place Defenders for the next War after joining. We are working to address this, but it will require a future update.

Upcoming Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw Balance Changes

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Comments

  • TehsigzorzTehsigzorz Posts: 1,233 ★★★★

    How did you not realize that Cull is putting out this much dmg, how did you not realize his dmg potential from the very first time playing him?? Its like being shocked at how much dmg starlord does at 100 combo hits, you kinda figure it out the first time playing around with him.

    Don't forget that Cull was bugged and they had to tune his offensive capabilities already. In fact they did it twice when his route ability wasn't working properly at first. Plenty of opportunity to 'fix" Cull. I doubt even Kabam can be this unaware. I think Cull is to test the waters on these nerfing updates. Otherwise, I can't make sense of it.
    I just hope they increase his block prof, I have him as a rank 3 but hes too situational and high maintenance to use properly. Hell I think annihilus is a better rank 4 option than he is(Gonna get him to rank 4 next level up event for defence)
  • If you take the time to ramp Cull up to 10 charges, you have earned the damage output. I can get 15 outrage on Namor, dash back hold block, throw of a special 3 followed by a special 2. 99% of fights are over after that.... No fighting’s ramping up. Stark Spidey, 10 poise charges, crushes people, Star lord....... don’t even need to speak on his damage do I? The X amount of damage is probably data taken from when he was bugged. It makes 0 sense.
  • TehsigzorzTehsigzorz Posts: 1,233 ★★★★

    If you take the time to ramp Cull up to 10 charges, you have earned the damage output. I can get 15 outrage on Namor, dash back hold block, throw of a special 3 followed by a special 2. 99% of fights are over after that.... No fighting’s ramping up. Stark Spidey, 10 poise charges, crushes people, Star lord....... don’t even need to speak on his damage do I? The X amount of damage is probably data taken from when he was bugged. It makes 0 sense.

    Corvus, mediums into sp2 done. Domino heavy spam to finish fights in 10 to 20 hits. Ghost 1 sp2 done.
  • If you take the time to ramp Cull up to 10 charges, you have earned the damage output. I can get 15 outrage on Namor, dash back hold block, throw of a special 3 followed by a special 2. 99% of fights are over after that.... No fighting’s ramping up. Stark Spidey, 10 poise charges, crushes people, Star lord....... don’t even need to speak on his damage do I? The X amount of damage is probably data taken from when he was bugged. It makes 0 sense.

    Corvus, mediums into sp2 done. Domino heavy spam to finish fights in 10 to 20 hits. Ghost 1 sp2 done.
    Yea I only have those 3 as 4*s and I don’t use 4*s anymore haha. I only like speaking on what I know. I don’t like to speculate, but I’ve certainly seen videos of the 3 you posted absolutely shredding content. Cull can do some damage don’t get me wrong, but it’s harder to get to. You aren’t just starting a fight and going HAM with him and the block damage you take is laughable.

  • KoperBoyKoperBoy Posts: 210 ★★
    edited September 2019

    As DNA suggested, I don't think they're looking at "X amount of Damage". It's not even necessary to comb the data to see he can hit hard. For me, the key part of the comment is the comparative one. They said he does more than any other higher-end Champs. I don't think that's necessarily the amount of Damage in total he's capable of. I think it's some other factor. In any event, what it suggests is that he varies from other Champs in a degree they're not comfortable with.

    The big problem with this is context. Yes he outdamages Ghost, Omega Red or Namor when fully ramped up, but those champs are usable in 95% of end-game content, while Cull is usable in approximately half of that - if at all.

    Looking at champ only through damage output prism is very shortsighted. I expect they balance him and not only nerf his damage. Maybe cap his charges at 8 and give him another good ability.
  • KoperBoyKoperBoy Posts: 210 ★★
    Haji_Saab said:

    Would you prefer a fully ramped up Venom the Duck (regen x2, power gain x3, fury x3, precision x2) or a fully ramped up Cull?

    I think I would take VtD any day. Just not seeing why he needs to be neutered. The RoL fights where he outshines everyone are useless.

    Definitely VtD. I mean, Aegon destroys LOL, yet Cull is getting a nerf?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,189 ★★★★★
    KoperBoy said:

    As DNA suggested, I don't think they're looking at "X amount of Damage". It's not even necessary to comb the data to see he can hit hard. For me, the key part of the comment is the comparative one. They said he does more than any other higher-end Champs. I don't think that's necessarily the amount of Damage in total he's capable of. I think it's some other factor. In any event, what it suggests is that he varies from other Champs in a degree they're not comfortable with.

    The big problem with this is context. Yes he outdamages Ghost, Omega Red or Namor when fully ramped up, but those champs are usable in 95% of end-game content, while Cull is usable in approximately half of that - if at all.

    Looking at champ only through damage output prism is very shortsighted. I expect they balance him and not only nerf his damage. Maybe cap his charges at 8 and give him another good ability.
    The other point I made was that we don't know what Damage comparison they made. I don't think it was maximum output necessarily. It could have been the amount over time. It may take some effort to ramp him up, but if he's doing hundreds of thousands within the first 10 seconds of a Fight, that's noticeable. Just an example, not necessarily what they were looking at.
  • TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    Ace_03 said:



    This image is from April 13th, 2016. Both Agent Venom and Kamala Khan got these special quests, where the community could fight them and test out their abilities and analyze the nuances of the champions.

    Ideally, I would like this to return but on reverse, a training mode type of quest, where you can use the champion and test them out, that way we can look at the interactions of the champions, once it's over, they can either be deemed too powerful or too weak and tweaked accordingly. If the champ is good and balanced then keep it moving.

    I would however, settle with the image above, the week there is no new champions, have this training mode available to go up against the champion, with written dialogue and tutorials to give you tips on how the champ works, so then the fanbase can analyze it and see if everything is working as intended.

    I remember those. Excellent idea!
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 2,257 ★★★★★
    Ace_03 said:



    This image is from April 13th, 2016. Both Agent Venom and Kamala Khan got these special quests, where the community could fight them and test out their abilities and analyze the nuances of the champions.

    Ideally, I would like this to return but on reverse, a training mode type of quest, where you can use the champion and test them out, that way we can look at the interactions of the champions, once it's over, they can either be deemed too powerful or too weak and tweaked accordingly. If the champ is good and balanced then keep it moving.

    I would however, settle with the image above, the week there is no new champions, have this training mode available to go up against the champion, with written dialogue and tutorials to give you tips on how the champ works, so then the fanbase can analyze it and see if everything is working as intended.

    I was going to suggest they look at Marvel Strike Force and "take inspiration" from the way they intro new champs, but it looks like they already had a good idea and moved away from it. As a 6 star 5-65 sig 200 test champ even Diablo would look like a superbeast in a quick quest designed to show off the highlights and ending with a somewhat but not really semi-challenging boss fight.
  • @Kabam Miike cant you guys just cap the armor break stacks for Cull? That seems like a reasonable nerf.
  • Diksh619Diksh619 Posts: 227 ★★

    KoperBoy said:

    As DNA suggested, I don't think they're looking at "X amount of Damage". It's not even necessary to comb the data to see he can hit hard. For me, the key part of the comment is the comparative one. They said he does more than any other higher-end Champs. I don't think that's necessarily the amount of Damage in total he's capable of. I think it's some other factor. In any event, what it suggests is that he varies from other Champs in a degree they're not comfortable with.

    The big problem with this is context. Yes he outdamages Ghost, Omega Red or Namor when fully ramped up, but those champs are usable in 95% of end-game content, while Cull is usable in approximately half of that - if at all.

    Looking at champ only through damage output prism is very shortsighted. I expect they balance him and not only nerf his damage. Maybe cap his charges at 8 and give him another good ability.
    The other point I made was that we don't know what Damage comparison they made. I don't think it was maximum output necessarily. It could have been the amount over time. It may take some effort to ramp him up, but if he's doing hundreds of thousands within the first 10 seconds of a Fight, that's noticeable. Just an example, not necessarily what they were looking at.
    Hey do you even have a Cull.. I have him at r4 and trust me winning the first 4-5 fights is no fun..HE CAN'T SURVIVE AGAINST - Domino, symbiote supreme, Magik, etc. He is super bad on limber, poison, bleed,degen.
    His ramp up is not just a little pain. It's enormous pain. He takes more skill and understanding of the game to ramp up. You have to literally kill your team to get him to that 4-5 fights. I am fine with the damage nerf if they wish to do that. What the community is angry about is:
    1. Lack of communication - No details and one sided statements. Please ask us what we think. Maybe a poll or the CCP guys can speak on our behalf.
    2. This balancing is fine but they need to start a beta program for better testing else it will hurt their business(Crystal sales)
    3. No acknowledgement of bugs but pro player issues get emergency maintenance(Which is good) but other issues need to be prioritized as well.

    So for god's sake please think seriously about the points i mentioned. It's not just a champions buff or nerf that is the issue but the way its done. Remember patch 12.0. Initially it was looking super bad but overall it was good for the game. Maybe same is the thing here but the APPROACH is the real point that needs to be corrected.

    Have a good day gentlemen!
  • Diksh619Diksh619 Posts: 227 ★★

    @Kabam Miike cant you guys just cap the armor break stacks for Cull? That seems like a reasonable nerf.

    Seriously if you wish you can play with r1 5 star cull..Don't nerf a champion once people have spent their time or effort on him is the clear idea these 52 pages of comments have and still here you are with another glorious reason. This champion will never outshine Namor, GHOST, Havok etc. Have you even seen what HAVOK can do on his sp3. Shall we nerf all of them.
    The game meta changes with time. Champions are released to tackle them accordingly else we would have been just fine with a handful of characters like star lord. In the coming future where content has so much high hp and attack we need better and stronger champs. It will be no fun to play a fight for 30 mins and still die. Damage caps and other nodes already are a pain in very hard content.
    Food for thought - Can you solo any path in variant 1 with CULL without pots and revives. This champion may undergo balancing if kabam wants it but it should not be one sided.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,189 ★★★★★
    Diksh619 said:

    KoperBoy said:

    As DNA suggested, I don't think they're looking at "X amount of Damage". It's not even necessary to comb the data to see he can hit hard. For me, the key part of the comment is the comparative one. They said he does more than any other higher-end Champs. I don't think that's necessarily the amount of Damage in total he's capable of. I think it's some other factor. In any event, what it suggests is that he varies from other Champs in a degree they're not comfortable with.

    The big problem with this is context. Yes he outdamages Ghost, Omega Red or Namor when fully ramped up, but those champs are usable in 95% of end-game content, while Cull is usable in approximately half of that - if at all.

    Looking at champ only through damage output prism is very shortsighted. I expect they balance him and not only nerf his damage. Maybe cap his charges at 8 and give him another good ability.
    The other point I made was that we don't know what Damage comparison they made. I don't think it was maximum output necessarily. It could have been the amount over time. It may take some effort to ramp him up, but if he's doing hundreds of thousands within the first 10 seconds of a Fight, that's noticeable. Just an example, not necessarily what they were looking at.
    Hey do you even have a Cull.. I have him at r4 and trust me winning the first 4-5 fights is no fun..HE CAN'T SURVIVE AGAINST - Domino, symbiote supreme, Magik, etc. He is super bad on limber, poison, bleed,degen.
    His ramp up is not just a little pain. It's enormous pain. He takes more skill and understanding of the game to ramp up. You have to literally kill your team to get him to that 4-5 fights. I am fine with the damage nerf if they wish to do that. What the community is angry about is:
    1. Lack of communication - No details and one sided statements. Please ask us what we think. Maybe a poll or the CCP guys can speak on our behalf.
    2. This balancing is fine but they need to start a beta program for better testing else it will hurt their business(Crystal sales)
    3. No acknowledgement of bugs but pro player issues get emergency maintenance(Which is good) but other issues need to be prioritized as well.

    So for god's sake please think seriously about the points i mentioned. It's not just a champions buff or nerf that is the issue but the way its done. Remember patch 12.0. Initially it was looking super bad but overall it was good for the game. Maybe same is the thing here but the APPROACH is the real point that needs to be corrected.

    Have a good day gentlemen!
    There are no details to give. All they said was they looked at the data and noticed something that needed attention. When they have specifics, I'm sure they'll share them. These revisions don't really fall under bugs. It's not a help the Players/help Kabam situation. It's just overall improvement of the process of revising Champs. It not only helps them with future content, but it also lightens the load when it comes to larger buffs. There's less room for extreme gaps. They couldn't be more communicative on the issue. 3 months ahead of time is about as upfront as it gets. I'd venture a guess that there aren't specific ideas for changes to share yet. They're trying to be upfront. They didn't divulge their data and entire inner workings, but that's not communication, it's a Trial IMO. We don't know what they're tweaking. They could be adding things, reducing, who knows? All they said was Damage, and people were triggered. The bottom line from my point of view is it doesn't matter about Utility because that's not what they were looking at. I don't have any arguments with people asking to give him some, but they were looking at how his Damage is surpassing Champs in one aspect or another. Not how hard it is to ramp him up, or what he's weak against. At least not based on what's been said. They evidently have an issue with one of his capabilities. As much as people think he should have that as a trade-off, that's a problem for balance moving forward. Unless they give some indication to the contrary, that's my take on it.
  • r3dyr3dy Posts: 30

    Diksh619 said:

    KoperBoy said:

    As DNA suggested, I don't think they're looking at "X amount of Damage". It's not even necessary to comb the data to see he can hit hard. For me, the key part of the comment is the comparative one. They said he does more than any other higher-end Champs. I don't think that's necessarily the amount of Damage in total he's capable of. I think it's some other factor. In any event, what it suggests is that he varies from other Champs in a degree they're not comfortable with.

    The big problem with this is context. Yes he outdamages Ghost, Omega Red or Namor when fully ramped up, but those champs are usable in 95% of end-game content, while Cull is usable in approximately half of that - if at all.

    Looking at champ only through damage output prism is very shortsighted. I expect they balance him and not only nerf his damage. Maybe cap his charges at 8 and give him another good ability.
    The other point I made was that we don't know what Damage comparison they made. I don't think it was maximum output necessarily. It could have been the amount over time. It may take some effort to ramp him up, but if he's doing hundreds of thousands within the first 10 seconds of a Fight, that's noticeable. Just an example, not necessarily what they were looking at.
    Hey do you even have a Cull.. I have him at r4 and trust me winning the first 4-5 fights is no fun..HE CAN'T SURVIVE AGAINST - Domino, symbiote supreme, Magik, etc. He is super bad on limber, poison, bleed,degen.
    His ramp up is not just a little pain. It's enormous pain. He takes more skill and understanding of the game to ramp up. You have to literally kill your team to get him to that 4-5 fights. I am fine with the damage nerf if they wish to do that. What the community is angry about is:
    1. Lack of communication - No details and one sided statements. Please ask us what we think. Maybe a poll or the CCP guys can speak on our behalf.
    2. This balancing is fine but they need to start a beta program for better testing else it will hurt their business(Crystal sales)
    3. No acknowledgement of bugs but pro player issues get emergency maintenance(Which is good) but other issues need to be prioritized as well.

    So for god's sake please think seriously about the points i mentioned. It's not just a champions buff or nerf that is the issue but the way its done. Remember patch 12.0. Initially it was looking super bad but overall it was good for the game. Maybe same is the thing here but the APPROACH is the real point that needs to be corrected.

    Have a good day gentlemen!
    There are no details to give. All they said was they looked at the data and noticed something that needed attention. When they have specifics, I'm sure they'll share them. These revisions don't really fall under bugs. It's not a help the Players/help Kabam situation. It's just overall improvement of the process of revising Champs. It not only helps them with future content, but it also lightens the load when it comes to larger buffs. There's less room for extreme gaps. They couldn't be more communicative on the issue. 3 months ahead of time is about as upfront as it gets. I'd venture a guess that there aren't specific ideas for changes to share yet. They're trying to be upfront. They didn't divulge their data and entire inner workings, but that's not communication, it's a Trial IMO. We don't know what they're tweaking. They could be adding things, reducing, who knows? All they said was Damage, and people were triggered. The bottom line from my point of view is it doesn't matter about Utility because that's not what they were looking at. I don't have any arguments with people asking to give him some, but they were looking at how his Damage is surpassing Champs in one aspect or another. Not how hard it is to ramp him up, or what he's weak against. At least not based on what's been said. They evidently have an issue with one of his capabilities. As much as people think he should have that as a trade-off, that's a problem for balance moving forward. Unless they give some indication to the contrary, that's my take on it.
    You just keep repeting the OP.....

    They are talking about balance, and balance is more than just damage, whatever they mention something else or not, balance is a general review of the champions.

    Once again, Cull was already out before they said anything about these 3 months.

    This 3-month period is something that many people in the community disagree with, and there have been many arguments about it.

    Since Kabam does not have the tools, the means or the will to properly test the champions, then it makes sense for the community to give them some ideas about what really could be a good balance for the champions.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,189 ★★★★★
    r3dy said:

    Diksh619 said:

    KoperBoy said:

    As DNA suggested, I don't think they're looking at "X amount of Damage". It's not even necessary to comb the data to see he can hit hard. For me, the key part of the comment is the comparative one. They said he does more than any other higher-end Champs. I don't think that's necessarily the amount of Damage in total he's capable of. I think it's some other factor. In any event, what it suggests is that he varies from other Champs in a degree they're not comfortable with.

    The big problem with this is context. Yes he outdamages Ghost, Omega Red or Namor when fully ramped up, but those champs are usable in 95% of end-game content, while Cull is usable in approximately half of that - if at all.

    Looking at champ only through damage output prism is very shortsighted. I expect they balance him and not only nerf his damage. Maybe cap his charges at 8 and give him another good ability.
    The other point I made was that we don't know what Damage comparison they made. I don't think it was maximum output necessarily. It could have been the amount over time. It may take some effort to ramp him up, but if he's doing hundreds of thousands within the first 10 seconds of a Fight, that's noticeable. Just an example, not necessarily what they were looking at.
    Hey do you even have a Cull.. I have him at r4 and trust me winning the first 4-5 fights is no fun..HE CAN'T SURVIVE AGAINST - Domino, symbiote supreme, Magik, etc. He is super bad on limber, poison, bleed,degen.
    His ramp up is not just a little pain. It's enormous pain. He takes more skill and understanding of the game to ramp up. You have to literally kill your team to get him to that 4-5 fights. I am fine with the damage nerf if they wish to do that. What the community is angry about is:
    1. Lack of communication - No details and one sided statements. Please ask us what we think. Maybe a poll or the CCP guys can speak on our behalf.
    2. This balancing is fine but they need to start a beta program for better testing else it will hurt their business(Crystal sales)
    3. No acknowledgement of bugs but pro player issues get emergency maintenance(Which is good) but other issues need to be prioritized as well.

    So for god's sake please think seriously about the points i mentioned. It's not just a champions buff or nerf that is the issue but the way its done. Remember patch 12.0. Initially it was looking super bad but overall it was good for the game. Maybe same is the thing here but the APPROACH is the real point that needs to be corrected.

    Have a good day gentlemen!
    There are no details to give. All they said was they looked at the data and noticed something that needed attention. When they have specifics, I'm sure they'll share them. These revisions don't really fall under bugs. It's not a help the Players/help Kabam situation. It's just overall improvement of the process of revising Champs. It not only helps them with future content, but it also lightens the load when it comes to larger buffs. There's less room for extreme gaps. They couldn't be more communicative on the issue. 3 months ahead of time is about as upfront as it gets. I'd venture a guess that there aren't specific ideas for changes to share yet. They're trying to be upfront. They didn't divulge their data and entire inner workings, but that's not communication, it's a Trial IMO. We don't know what they're tweaking. They could be adding things, reducing, who knows? All they said was Damage, and people were triggered. The bottom line from my point of view is it doesn't matter about Utility because that's not what they were looking at. I don't have any arguments with people asking to give him some, but they were looking at how his Damage is surpassing Champs in one aspect or another. Not how hard it is to ramp him up, or what he's weak against. At least not based on what's been said. They evidently have an issue with one of his capabilities. As much as people think he should have that as a trade-off, that's a problem for balance moving forward. Unless they give some indication to the contrary, that's my take on it.
    You just keep repeting the OP.....

    They are talking about balance, and balance is more than just damage, whatever they mention something else or not, balance is a general review of the champions.

    Once again, Cull was already out before they said anything about these 3 months.

    This 3-month period is something that many people in the community disagree with, and there have been many arguments about it.

    Since Kabam does not have the tools, the means or the will to properly test the champions, then it makes sense for the community to give them some ideas about what really could be a good balance for the champions.
    We've already been over this. They've been out a little over 3 months, yes. People wanted Maw to be reviewed and Cull was around the same time. Ronin didn't really need anything. They had planned on starting with HT and Ann., but we were the ones that asked for Maw.
    People are free to agree or disagree with the 3-month period, but that's what they've committed to. They're also free to add their own suggestions, I don't really argue people expressing those. However, balancing Champs has more to do with the Champs in and of themselves. What this suggests is they are also balancing them among all others with certain soft limits. "Too little, too much."
    They have the capabilities and the willingness to test. What they said was you can't gather nearly as much data from actual game play. These rebalances are retroactive based on what actually plays out in the game, not predicted scenarios. Once again, Champs will always be up for improvement. As is the rest of the game. I know it's easy to say if they tested, it would be perfect forever and ever. It doesn't work like that. The Champs are created and fine tuned to the very Meta created by us.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,189 ★★★★★
    r3dy said:

    r3dy said:

    Diksh619 said:

    KoperBoy said:

    As DNA suggested, I don't think they're looking at "X amount of Damage". It's not even necessary to comb the data to see he can hit hard. For me, the key part of the comment is the comparative one. They said he does more than any other higher-end Champs. I don't think that's necessarily the amount of Damage in total he's capable of. I think it's some other factor. In any event, what it suggests is that he varies from other Champs in a degree they're not comfortable with.

    The big problem with this is context. Yes he outdamages Ghost, Omega Red or Namor when fully ramped up, but those champs are usable in 95% of end-game content, while Cull is usable in approximately half of that - if at all.

    Looking at champ only through damage output prism is very shortsighted. I expect they balance him and not only nerf his damage. Maybe cap his charges at 8 and give him another good ability.
    The other point I made was that we don't know what Damage comparison they made. I don't think it was maximum output necessarily. It could have been the amount over time. It may take some effort to ramp him up, but if he's doing hundreds of thousands within the first 10 seconds of a Fight, that's noticeable. Just an example, not necessarily what they were looking at.
    Hey do you even have a Cull.. I have him at r4 and trust me winning the first 4-5 fights is no fun..HE CAN'T SURVIVE AGAINST - Domino, symbiote supreme, Magik, etc. He is super bad on limber, poison, bleed,degen.
    His ramp up is not just a little pain. It's enormous pain. He takes more skill and understanding of the game to ramp up. You have to literally kill your team to get him to that 4-5 fights. I am fine with the damage nerf if they wish to do that. What the community is angry about is:
    1. Lack of communication - No details and one sided statements. Please ask us what we think. Maybe a poll or the CCP guys can speak on our behalf.
    2. This balancing is fine but they need to start a beta program for better testing else it will hurt their business(Crystal sales)
    3. No acknowledgement of bugs but pro player issues get emergency maintenance(Which is good) but other issues need to be prioritized as well.

    So for god's sake please think seriously about the points i mentioned. It's not just a champions buff or nerf that is the issue but the way its done. Remember patch 12.0. Initially it was looking super bad but overall it was good for the game. Maybe same is the thing here but the APPROACH is the real point that needs to be corrected.

    Have a good day gentlemen!
    There are no details to give. All they said was they looked at the data and noticed something that needed attention. When they have specifics, I'm sure they'll share them. These revisions don't really fall under bugs. It's not a help the Players/help Kabam situation. It's just overall improvement of the process of revising Champs. It not only helps them with future content, but it also lightens the load when it comes to larger buffs. There's less room for extreme gaps. They couldn't be more communicative on the issue. 3 months ahead of time is about as upfront as it gets. I'd venture a guess that there aren't specific ideas for changes to share yet. They're trying to be upfront. They didn't divulge their data and entire inner workings, but that's not communication, it's a Trial IMO. We don't know what they're tweaking. They could be adding things, reducing, who knows? All they said was Damage, and people were triggered. The bottom line from my point of view is it doesn't matter about Utility because that's not what they were looking at. I don't have any arguments with people asking to give him some, but they were looking at how his Damage is surpassing Champs in one aspect or another. Not how hard it is to ramp him up, or what he's weak against. At least not based on what's been said. They evidently have an issue with one of his capabilities. As much as people think he should have that as a trade-off, that's a problem for balance moving forward. Unless they give some indication to the contrary, that's my take on it.
    You just keep repeting the OP.....

    They are talking about balance, and balance is more than just damage, whatever they mention something else or not, balance is a general review of the champions.

    Once again, Cull was already out before they said anything about these 3 months.

    This 3-month period is something that many people in the community disagree with, and there have been many arguments about it.

    Since Kabam does not have the tools, the means or the will to properly test the champions, then it makes sense for the community to give them some ideas about what really could be a good balance for the champions.
    We've already been over this. They've been out a little over 3 months, yes. People wanted Maw to be reviewed and Cull was around the same time. Ronin didn't really need anything. They had planned on starting with HT and Ann., but we were the ones that asked for Maw.
    People are free to agree or disagree with the 3-month period, but that's what they've committed to. They're also free to add their own suggestions, I don't really argue people expressing those. However, balancing Champs has more to do with the Champs in and of themselves. What this suggests is they are also balancing them among all others with certain soft limits. "Too little, too much."
    They have the capabilities and the willingness to test. What they said was you can't gather nearly as much data from actual game play. These rebalances are retroactive based on what actually plays out in the game, not predicted scenarios. Once again, Champs will always be up for improvement. As is the rest of the game. I know it's easy to say if they tested, it would be perfect forever and ever. It doesn't work like that. The Champs are created and fine tuned to the very Meta created by us.
    Like always you are just repeting your self...

    Maw is a story and cull is another, kabam has shown that they can make different decisions based on each champion, so people can agree with Maw and disagree with cull, and several arguments have been presented in these 54 pages.

    Nobody is committed to anything, kabam has made several mistakes over the years, and people are pointing out others, they can do something about it or not, but there is no reason for the community to stop giving their opinions on each aspect of the game

    About the test, they can say what they want, just like you, that doesn't make it right or enough, there are aspects that can only be based on the user experience, as well as others that can test it on the developers side, but those based on user feedback can be obtained in several other ways that kabam is not using, or stop using at this point, but the way they are using is, by far, a very bad and wrong way to do it, according to the business model they have (sale of champions and resources)

    I have not read any publication that says that if they test anything, the result will be perfect forever, but to say that every mistake, unbalanced or unexpected interactions can only be captured based on user data, it is a wild and unsubstantiated guess, and even if that's true, as stated earlier, this data collection can be done differently

    If I'm repeating myself, so is everyone else. That usually happens in discussions where one side or both do not see eye to eye. Only in this case, I see the other side. It's just not accepting the points I'm making. 54 pages later.
    People might disagree with it or not, but these changes aren't just done on popular vote. They're based on the data. The only thing that people speaking up suggests is there may be something to look at. Which they did. When they saw that Maw was underperforming, as people said, they also saw that Cull was over-performing (for lack of a better term). People asking is only one part of the equation. The other is where they go back and support it internally with what they find.
    As for testing, I feel that point is exhausted. Testing isn't going to prevent all problems and it isn't going to map the entire game out for changes months and years down the road. The data IS the result of us playing it.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,189 ★★★★★
    We don't evaluate their data. They do. People may not see how Ronin is performing up to par, but they're also looking at their own experience, from where they are at in the game. Are they okay with him being average? I can't speak for them. What I can say is not every Champ will be God Tier, and not every Champ will be the best choice for End-Game. There is always going to be somewhat of a range. Personally I find it a bit arbitrary to argue that we haven't seen the data. We never do. That's not really a process I'm familiar with here. I have yet to see us approve of their data and findings before they make assertions.
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