**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.

The grind is real I guess

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Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Odachi said:



    Honestly, what's the issue? Just play the game and stop moaning about having to play the game or find a new game to play.

    Not everyone grinds arena. Arena grinders will probably find the objectives fairly easy, non-grinder are going to find them a lot more problematic depending on circumstances.

    I'm all for having people have to play the game. I didn't complain about the sunglasses fights. And these aren't *wildly* ridiculous, but depending on reasonable circumstances a lot of players are going to have to go way out of their way to get these. Normal gameplay *can* get them, for some players, but a lot of reasonably active players cannot get them that way.
    That's where I diverge. Some people don't enjoy the Arenas, fair enough. Some don't have the time to invest, fair as well. However, the Arena is an aspect of the game. In terms of wanting maximum Rewards, it's going to come up now and then. I think it's an advisable aspect of the game. Not that I'm disputing that this iteration is excessive. I think far too many people neglect the Arena, but that's just me.
  • GamerGamer Posts: 10,168 ★★★★★
    I’m use to grind arena don’t do it’s more because it burns me out to fast one reson I’m disliked this obetiv not that it hard just boring
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    ccrider474 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Pulyaman said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Pulyaman said:

    I am not sure what the players want.
    Shang chi quest. Too roster specific.
    Summer of pain. Too easy or too hard.
    Side quest too grind.
    Summoner event. Too complicated.
    When are people going to accept that not everything can be tailored made to enjoy for every single player. I accept that some complaints are very valid. But, no event will satisfy every single player. For arena grinder like me, this event is not that bad. I agree that it cannot be autoplayed like last week. But we cannot expect every week to be like that. I adjusted my gameplay a little and I finished the 4 and 5 star ones very easily. I can finish the 6 star ones after arena resets and can autoplay the 3 star one.

    People will always give feedback, and yes, Kabam will never get a side quest that people universally like. However, this seems to be one that a vast majority dislike. I mean, if you don't take a forum post that has 74 agrees and 2 disagrees as proof that this event isn't very liked I'm not sure what you do. Not to mention the data will likely speak for itself, people are abstaining from doing this because it's boring. I am, I've seen many posts and comments saying the same. Reddit doesn't like it either.

    People don't like grinding, it's why not as many people play arena as they do event quest for example. Your defence of this event is "It's not that bad", you think that's a pro of it. I think that's a monumental con. You're thinking about a 2 month event in a mobile video game and saying, oh I guess it's not that bad. Why can't we have events that we think, wow I can't wait to log on and do this! Instead of sighing and thinking, better log on and grind for hours to get these 150 6* shards so I don't miss out on next weeks hours of grinding. Which do you think has a better influence on how people view the game?

    I really don't get the point of "people complain about everything, I don't know what they want/why do kabam try/ why even do anything". Do you realise that different people are complaining about summer of pain being too easy/too hard, summoner event to complicated, shang chi quest too specific? Please tell me you get that, it's a very simple point.

    When the majority of people complain about the same thing, that's when you know there is definitely something wrong. At some point you've got to ask yourself is this event fun, and if it isn't, then you've got to think about the point of a video game.

    I understand that people don't like grinding. The disagrees are proof of that. But I am not sure how kabam can dish out event after event of easy rewards. The in out challenge was one of the easiest I have seen. 3 fights for a 5 star crystal. But, it seems to be a overwhelming amount of negative comment for something that can actually be completed relatively easily. If every event was like this, I will definitely agree. But some events are grindy while some are fun. For me, sop was very good for the rewards, in out challenge was just a giveaway and shang chi challenge was easy with the right champs, but doable with a relatively good roster. Summoner event after the grace days is not that bad for free rewards. But, I could actually see the same people complain about every one or these events which makes no sense. These are vastly different events with different requirements from players. How can you not like any of the events and still play the game?. The reason I decided to post my opinion that it is not all doom and gloom. It's a side quest extending over 2 months. Last week was too easy, It was just use a set of champs to defeat certain times. This week is a little more grindy. Next week could again be easy. So, it is better to wait before washing our hands of this event altogether like some have done.
    But you’re not getting my point. People will complain about everything. Yes, but it’s some,not all. So the argument of people complain about everything so we shouldn’t listen to the complaints, is a terrible argument. Because that begs the question when do you ever listen to complaints and change something?

    If you don’t listen to an overall point of complaining because some people are complaining, then that means you don’t get to ever listen to feedback unless it’s unanimous.

    Nobody is saying we should have an event that is great for everyone, and I agree that people would complain about almost every single event. That’s simply the nature of the game’s player base.

    But equally, this objective based event is not fun and people are giving their feedback. Not to mention this will mean 3 months in a row of these grinding, objective events. A quarter of a year. You saying “we should wait to see what the rest are like” is quite incredibly missing the point.
    Never said kabam should stop listening to complains. That is what the forums is for after all. But, I am seeing the same people complain about everything which is a little crazy. We have had both grindy and good events mixed together. No idea what point I am missing though. If I don't find something fun, I simply don't play it. That is why I uninstalled fure revolution after 1 hr. I just don't see the point of complaining about every event and still continue to play the game. These objectives don't even need you to go out of the way and do it like last month. You can simply do it while doing regular arena grinding or questing.
    That's the problem. People have become accustomed to rushing EQ and then doing minimal for the SQ. Aside from AW and AQ, they don't want to Grind or do anything much else.
    That's not to say people aren't valid when they say it's too tedious, or that they can't play however much they want. That's without saying. The point I was making last night was that playing the game for Rewards is not a novel concept. It's one thing to say this is a bit much. It's another to complain the Rewards don't come without effort.
    That is a weird approach people rush eq cause they don't want to play? I rush eq so I can get back to permanent content. I'll slow down my eq when I finish all other content (end is near 3 maps of 6.4 explore and abyss is all that is left). I don't see how working something like abyss would help me on these objectives. I grind arena just enough to keep my e refills up in units no more no less as I can do most things itemless. I 100% eq hero through cav every month do all side quests and objectives. I'm not opposed to objectives but get rid of the end in sp to just win vs a champ. These objectives work backwards and slow down my grind because I gotta play around to end on sp.

    Big failure when it's forcing me to slow down instead of working my normal pace.
    I never said they rush EQ BECAUSE they don't want to play. I said they're used to rushing it.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    ccrider474 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    ccrider474 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    Pulyaman said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Pulyaman said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Pulyaman said:

    I am not sure what the players want.
    Shang chi quest. Too roster specific.
    Summer of pain. Too easy or too hard.
    Side quest too grind.
    Summoner event. Too complicated.
    When are people going to accept that not everything can be tailored made to enjoy for every single player. I accept that some complaints are very valid. But, no event will satisfy every single player. For arena grinder like me, this event is not that bad. I agree that it cannot be autoplayed like last week. But we cannot expect every week to be like that. I adjusted my gameplay a little and I finished the 4 and 5 star ones very easily. I can finish the 6 star ones after arena resets and can autoplay the 3 star one.

    People will always give feedback, and yes, Kabam will never get a side quest that people universally like. However, this seems to be one that a vast majority dislike. I mean, if you don't take a forum post that has 74 agrees and 2 disagrees as proof that this event isn't very liked I'm not sure what you do. Not to mention the data will likely speak for itself, people are abstaining from doing this because it's boring. I am, I've seen many posts and comments saying the same. Reddit doesn't like it either.

    People don't like grinding, it's why not as many people play arena as they do event quest for example. Your defence of this event is "It's not that bad", you think that's a pro of it. I think that's a monumental con. You're thinking about a 2 month event in a mobile video game and saying, oh I guess it's not that bad. Why can't we have events that we think, wow I can't wait to log on and do this! Instead of sighing and thinking, better log on and grind for hours to get these 150 6* shards so I don't miss out on next weeks hours of grinding. Which do you think has a better influence on how people view the game?

    I really don't get the point of "people complain about everything, I don't know what they want/why do kabam try/ why even do anything". Do you realise that different people are complaining about summer of pain being too easy/too hard, summoner event to complicated, shang chi quest too specific? Please tell me you get that, it's a very simple point.

    When the majority of people complain about the same thing, that's when you know there is definitely something wrong. At some point you've got to ask yourself is this event fun, and if it isn't, then you've got to think about the point of a video game.

    I understand that people don't like grinding. The disagrees are proof of that. But I am not sure how kabam can dish out event after event of easy rewards. The in out challenge was one of the easiest I have seen. 3 fights for a 5 star crystal. But, it seems to be a overwhelming amount of negative comment for something that can actually be completed relatively easily. If every event was like this, I will definitely agree. But some events are grindy while some are fun. For me, sop was very good for the rewards, in out challenge was just a giveaway and shang chi challenge was easy with the right champs, but doable with a relatively good roster. Summoner event after the grace days is not that bad for free rewards. But, I could actually see the same people complain about every one or these events which makes no sense. These are vastly different events with different requirements from players. How can you not like any of the events and still play the game?. The reason I decided to post my opinion that it is not all doom and gloom. It's a side quest extending over 2 months. Last week was too easy, It was just use a set of champs to defeat certain times. This week is a little more grindy. Next week could again be easy. So, it is better to wait before washing our hands of this event altogether like some have done.
    But you’re not getting my point. People will complain about everything. Yes, but it’s some,not all. So the argument of people complain about everything so we shouldn’t listen to the complaints, is a terrible argument. Because that begs the question when do you ever listen to complaints and change something?

    If you don’t listen to an overall point of complaining because some people are complaining, then that means you don’t get to ever listen to feedback unless it’s unanimous.

    Nobody is saying we should have an event that is great for everyone, and I agree that people would complain about almost every single event. That’s simply the nature of the game’s player base.

    But equally, this objective based event is not fun and people are giving their feedback. Not to mention this will mean 3 months in a row of these grinding, objective events. A quarter of a year. You saying “we should wait to see what the rest are like” is quite incredibly missing the point.
    Never said kabam should stop listening to complains. That is what the forums is for after all. But, I am seeing the same people complain about everything which is a little crazy. We have had both grindy and good events mixed together. No idea what point I am missing though. If I don't find something fun, I simply don't play it. That is why I uninstalled fure revolution after 1 hr. I just don't see the point of complaining about every event and still continue to play the game. These objectives don't even need you to go out of the way and do it like last month. You can simply do it while doing regular arena grinding or questing.
    That's the problem. People have become accustomed to rushing EQ and then doing minimal for the SQ. Aside from AW and AQ, they don't want to Grind or do anything much else.
    That's not to say people aren't valid when they say it's too tedious, or that they can't play however much they want. That's without saying. The point I was making last night was that playing the game for Rewards is not a novel concept. It's one thing to say this is a bit much. It's another to complain the Rewards don't come without effort.
    That is a weird approach people rush eq cause they don't want to play? I rush eq so I can get back to permanent content. I'll slow down my eq when I finish all other content (end is near 3 maps of 6.4 explore and abyss is all that is left). I don't see how working something like abyss would help me on these objectives. I grind arena just enough to keep my e refills up in units no more no less as I can do most things itemless. I 100% eq hero through cav every month do all side quests and objectives. I'm not opposed to objectives but get rid of the end in sp to just win vs a champ. These objectives work backwards and slow down my grind because I gotta play around to end on sp.

    Big failure when it's forcing me to slow down instead of working my normal pace.
    I never said they rush EQ BECAUSE they don't want to play. I said they're used to rushing it.
    Pretty sure you said. "That's the problem. People have become accustomed to rushing EQ and then doing minimal for the SQ. Aside from AW and AQ, they don't want to Grind or do anything much else." Or did I copy paste wrong? That statement implies they are doing nothing else in game.

    Me personally I wouldn't care if they doubled it to fight 200 6* it's the end with sp that I have a problem with.
    Yes. They've become accustomed to it. Meaning that's been the history. I never said they rush EQ because they don't want to play the game.
    The bottom line is it's not unreasonable to put in some effort for Objectives. Are these extraneous? Yes. On the subject of Objectives overall, some just want to button-mash. I prefer to have something to think about as well.
  • TheBoogyManTheBoogyMan Posts: 2,094 ★★★★★
    Simple solution would be to just unlock weeks 3 and 4 as well, in week 3 itself. That way players have 3 weeks to complete week 2 objectives.
  • TheBoogyManTheBoogyMan Posts: 2,094 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    TheBoogyMan said:

    Simple solution would be to just unlock weeks 3 and 4 as well, in week 3 itself. That way players have 3 weeks to complete week 2 objectives.

    Sounds simple, but I'm not sure it is simple. When they attempted to extend the timeframe for one of the Summer of Pain events, they inadvertently caused the game systems to believe that an entirely new fight was added instead, causing an extra objective point to creep into some players' scores, which then created the fallout of players complaining they were unaware or caught off guard by the errant scoring and point reversal. I'm pretty sure that's why no other fight's opportunity window was extended after that happened. Once the dominos start falling, there's often no stopping them.

    In many ways, content in games like this functions less like a computer program, and more like a tower defense game. The developers can place things in certain places, but the game dictates what happens next. They can't arbitrarily tell the game what to do, nor can they always predict what will happen if they try to change the configuration of the towers once things are already in motion.

    However the week 2 objectives are not just for one week. They are till Oct end. So all they'd really have to do it unlock week 3 and 4 for everyone irrespective of whether they did week 2 or not.
  • RaviDaviRaviDavi Posts: 800 ★★★
    This was a terrible design to create a two month event. 100% rather wanted RNG side quest since I don't want to spend that much time on such little rewards.
  • pseudosanepseudosane Posts: 3,818 Guardian
    GroundedWisdom said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Odachi said:



    Honestly, what's the issue? Just play the game and stop moaning about having to play the game or find a new game to play.

    Not everyone grinds arena. Arena grinders will probably find the objectives fairly easy, non-grinder are going to find them a lot more problematic depending on circumstances.

    I'm all for having people have to play the game. I didn't complain about the sunglasses fights. And these aren't *wildly* ridiculous, but depending on reasonable circumstances a lot of players are going to have to go way out of their way to get these. Normal gameplay *can* get them, for some players, but a lot of reasonably active players cannot get them that way.
    That's where I diverge. Some people don't enjoy the Arenas, fair enough. Some don't have the time to invest, fair as well. However, the Arena is an aspect of the game. In terms of wanting maximum Rewards, it's going to come up now and then. I think it's an advisable aspect of the game. Not that I'm disputing that this iteration is excessive. I think far too many people neglect the Arena, but that's just me.
    hard disagree. Arena is an optional mode. And this is coming from a relatively hardcore arena grinder. I do arena because i want to, not have to.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    pseudosane said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Odachi said:



    Honestly, what's the issue? Just play the game and stop moaning about having to play the game or find a new game to play.

    Not everyone grinds arena. Arena grinders will probably find the objectives fairly easy, non-grinder are going to find them a lot more problematic depending on circumstances.

    I'm all for having people have to play the game. I didn't complain about the sunglasses fights. And these aren't *wildly* ridiculous, but depending on reasonable circumstances a lot of players are going to have to go way out of their way to get these. Normal gameplay *can* get them, for some players, but a lot of reasonably active players cannot get them that way.
    That's where I diverge. Some people don't enjoy the Arenas, fair enough. Some don't have the time to invest, fair as well. However, the Arena is an aspect of the game. In terms of wanting maximum Rewards, it's going to come up now and then. I think it's an advisable aspect of the game. Not that I'm disputing that this iteration is excessive. I think far too many people neglect the Arena, but that's just me.
    hard disagree. Arena is an optional mode. And this is coming from a relatively hardcore arena grinder. I do arena because i want to, not have to.
    No one HAS to do anything but die and pay taxes. However, if they're trying to get the maximum Resources possible out of the game, which are pretty much necessary if you want to compete or achieve the higher levels of status in the game, then it's pretty much sacrosanct.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    Jaded said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    pseudosane said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Odachi said:



    Honestly, what's the issue? Just play the game and stop moaning about having to play the game or find a new game to play.

    Not everyone grinds arena. Arena grinders will probably find the objectives fairly easy, non-grinder are going to find them a lot more problematic depending on circumstances.

    I'm all for having people have to play the game. I didn't complain about the sunglasses fights. And these aren't *wildly* ridiculous, but depending on reasonable circumstances a lot of players are going to have to go way out of their way to get these. Normal gameplay *can* get them, for some players, but a lot of reasonably active players cannot get them that way.
    That's where I diverge. Some people don't enjoy the Arenas, fair enough. Some don't have the time to invest, fair as well. However, the Arena is an aspect of the game. In terms of wanting maximum Rewards, it's going to come up now and then. I think it's an advisable aspect of the game. Not that I'm disputing that this iteration is excessive. I think far too many people neglect the Arena, but that's just me.
    hard disagree. Arena is an optional mode. And this is coming from a relatively hardcore arena grinder. I do arena because i want to, not have to.
    No one HAS to do anything but die and pay taxes. However, if they're trying to get the maximum Resources possible out of the game, which are pretty much necessary if you want to compete or achieve the higher levels of status in the game, then it's pretty much sacrosanct.
    Nope not true plenty people “at the top” don’t do arenas. Not because of time because they don’t have to.
    They still do it, and that contributes to their Resources the same way it contributed towards them getting to where they're at. That's my point.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,242 ★★★★★
    Anyway, this is getting off-topic so we can move on. My own opinion is that the Arena is an important part of the game that shouldn't be overlooked. Feel free to disagree.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,659 Guardian
    TheBoogyMan said:

    DNA3000 said:

    TheBoogyMan said:

    Simple solution would be to just unlock weeks 3 and 4 as well, in week 3 itself. That way players have 3 weeks to complete week 2 objectives.

    Sounds simple, but I'm not sure it is simple. When they attempted to extend the timeframe for one of the Summer of Pain events, they inadvertently caused the game systems to believe that an entirely new fight was added instead, causing an extra objective point to creep into some players' scores, which then created the fallout of players complaining they were unaware or caught off guard by the errant scoring and point reversal. I'm pretty sure that's why no other fight's opportunity window was extended after that happened. Once the dominos start falling, there's often no stopping them.

    In many ways, content in games like this functions less like a computer program, and more like a tower defense game. The developers can place things in certain places, but the game dictates what happens next. They can't arbitrarily tell the game what to do, nor can they always predict what will happen if they try to change the configuration of the towers once things are already in motion.

    However the week 2 objectives are not just for one week. They are till Oct end. So all they'd really have to do it unlock week 3 and 4 for everyone irrespective of whether they did week 2 or not.
    All they had to do was extend the deadline for Darkhawk. So why did the game start counting defeats twice? If you can't explain why the game does what it does, you can't predict what it will do when you change what it does (I have a decent idea, but there's no way to know without looking at the implementation).

    Consider the AQ start bug. The first person entering triggered the game component that announces AQ start. But AQ start was reprovisioned to include a timer to accommodate the new starting system. This caused the first person to enter to retrigger AQ start, which locked out everyone else until the timer expired a second time. Because this behavior is in the code not the AQ framework, it wasn't trivial to reconfigure to eliminate the behavior. Changing the underlying behavior alone could break the AQ framework sitting on top of it. So now you need to coordinate the work of two completely different people (at least) who are presumably otherwise engaged with other things.

    So suppose you trigger those objectives early and it causes them to break for half the players. Do you now pull your engine developers off the task of continuing to work on refactoring the resource management systems that are the source of the memory leaks causing crashes? You can't just pull them off and put them back: there is spin up time to stop working on that and then get comfortable working on an entirely different system, and then when they return there will be spin up time again to settle back into what they were working on before.

    All of this is tangled up in the "simple" solution. So now imagine you're a Kabam developer and you propose your simple solution internally, and a producer or manager presents this scenario to you and asks you what would *you* do if all this happens? How would *you* fix it? You can't: it is likely far outside your area of responsibilities. You'd be betting with other people's money at that point. Why would a producer give you the green light under these circumstances?
  • MrSakuragiMrSakuragi Posts: 3,917 ★★★★★
    LordPSN said:

    Guys did anyone manage to clear the objectives? I am messing it up.. Whenever I use special, the enemy falls at 1% health and so have to wait again to fill power.

    I just finished it. Not the most enjoyable thing I’ve done in this game… lol
  • ReferenceReference Posts: 2,899 ★★★★★
    LordPSN said:

    Guys did anyone manage to clear the objectives? I am messing it up.. Whenever I use special, the enemy falls at 1% health and so have to wait again to fill power.

    Done ytd. 3* one is the most annoying one to me as I seldom touch those contents.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    LordPSN said:

    Guys did anyone manage to clear the objectives? I am messing it up.. Whenever I use special, the enemy falls at 1% health and so have to wait again to fill power.

    Wait for them to go 5% and fire Sp3. Completed the 6 and 5 star ones from arena and uc eq and master eq.
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