War Changes

Are changes coming to war anytime soon? Seems like enough players have voiced their frustration with and dislike of the new format to warrant changes. War is no longer fun. It's not about who has the stronger alliance or more highly skilled players. It's all about making sure everyone places 5 unique champs in each battlegroup with high PI for defender rating, and then throwing enough potions and revives at the map to get 100%. The nodes aren't challenging at all. Most of them can be taken while still linked. I'm sorry, but it's absolute garbage and change is needed. Defender kills should definitely be part of the equation. Fix it soon, Kabam.

Comments

  • Yeah. It's not fun or interesting at all. Despite that, the tiebrakers don't work as intended, as proved by other members. The whole war system is broken and should be fixed sooner than later.
  • WC303WC303 Posts: 71
    I see so many people complain about the war format in the global chat and on LINE. Where are all those people? The only way we can possibly get them to make changes is to let them know, en masse.
  • Kabam Miike said today that they are planning more changes. Now the changes they have made so far have been useless, but I am hopeful they might be able to correct their mistakes.
  • WrongswordWrongsword Posts: 39
    edited November 2017
    WC303 wrote: »
    I see so many people complain about the war format in the global chat and on LINE. Where are all those people? The only way we can possibly get them to make changes is to let them know, en masse.

    The playerbase has been complaining on these forums since they changed war, and Kabam has shown no inclination to really listen.

    The obvious solution- bring back defender kills, has been screamed at them from every corner ever since the change and Kabam has completely ignored it. Diversity just encourages everyone to bring terrible defenders, making the map easier, etc. The issue's been done to death but it has had no effect.

    And the new map is terribly designed. Having all the paths help each other out makes the much much easier to 100%, whereas the old system there was a huge difference between an alliance that could complete the map and one that could 100% it. By having all the paths merge, especially on the left side, any alliance that can complete the map can also 100% it so of course everything comes down to the "tiebreaker". But Kabam has not shown they understand this at all because all they do is make little tweaks to node buffs, not the paths.

    The only real change to map node difficulty is node 24 which has also been complained about to death, this is just nonsense where node healing is based off modified health instead of all other healing thats based off base health so big heal champs like magik are broken on that node. Most other node buff changes have been irrelevant.

    tl;dr the playerbase has been very active in voicing these concerns, Kabam has just shown they aren't interested in listening nor do they understand how AW difficulty works.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 3,156
    Birdofprey wrote: »
    Kabam Miike said today that they are planning more changes. Now the changes they have made so far have been useless, but I am hopeful they might be able to correct their mistakes.

    @Kabam Miike keeps saying the changes are getting closer to what they want (and what we want, but I'll ignore that here). First they nerfed the harder nodes in 14.0, then they buffed those nodes in 15.0, then they added more node buffs in 16.0. Each of these was said to move them "closer" to what they want. They added diversity points which were higher than the points for killing the node, then they reduced the diversity points to equal killing the node. They eliminated defender kill points to encourage attackers to continue attacking even if they die to a node, then made the map harder and added more defender-specific synergies and specifically stated that those nodes were intended to be extremely difficult to defeat "unless you bring the right attacker" which discourages anyone from attacking those nodes if they guess wrong. They also removed some of the node links to reduce the amount of time players had to wait for nodes to be cleared, then concentrated them into one specific section in the center to make that part of the map a roadblock unless players cleared the links quickly.

    Every one of these two steps forward two steps back three steps sideways five backflips off a cliff were said to be bringing us "closer" to what they want, when the changes are all conflicting with each other. Saying they are making changes and those changes will bring us closer to something doesn't tell me anything when all of their changes are pointing in different directions.

    Frankly, since 15.0 all of their changes have been node tweaks, and there's only two kinds of node tweaks they can make. They can make the map easier, which will push us closer to non-competitive 15.0-style war. Or they can make the map harder, which will increase the competition at some AW tiers but make them ludicrous and expensive at other tiers.
  • THX135THX135 Posts: 30
    Has Kabam ever stated their goal for AW? What is this target we are supposed to get closer to?

    If they want to keep diversity to force us to use crappy champs that's fine. But they need a better way to provide points to those more skilled, aka die less.

    Maybe something like 150 points for a defender kill if you solo, 125 if you need to fight the defender twice and 100 points if you take more than 3 deaths to kill them.
  • WrongswordWrongsword Posts: 39
    edited November 2017
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Every one of these two steps forward two steps back three steps sideways five backflips off a cliff were said to be bringing us "closer" to what they want, when the changes are all conflicting with each other.

    LOL

    Yeah it's not really clear what Kabam's plan is for AW, nor do they seem to know how to balance AW even if they do have some sort of coherent plan for it.
  • Is anyone actually doing 150 diversity? I haven't seen anyone do that in a few weeks at least. As far as I've seen we're completely back to only evade/mystic dispersion defenders.
  • Deadbyrd9Deadbyrd9 Posts: 3,095
    I’ve actually enjoyed wars in top 100 matchups. It’s fun mystic wars. It’s a lot better than the old format since certain champs are walls on specific nodes
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 3,156
    THX135 wrote: »
    Has Kabam ever stated their goal for AW? What is this target we are supposed to get closer to?

    Yes and no. To the best of my knowledge and recollection, the stated goal for AW is:

    * To encourage players to attack if they have live attackers
    * To encourage players to place a more diverse set of defenders
    * To make AW more fun and engaging
    * To make AW hard enough to be challenging to complete fully
    * To reward players that place difficult nodes on defense or bring the right counter-attackers on offense

    However, there is sufficient ambiguity in most of those statements that they can justify almost any change at all to AW. Especially because when it comes to many different specifics, different players want different things. A good AW attempts to make changes that do the right things at different tiers and levels of competition, which is something very difficult to do with the very coarse tools they are using to tweak map nodes.

    They've also said they want it to be what we claim to want, but that doesn't lead to anywhere particularly productive.
  • Deadbyrd9Deadbyrd9 Posts: 3,095
    And they don’t want 100% clears across the board every aw so that always conflicts with having more diverse defenses
  • WC303WC303 Posts: 71
    5lu258nr1m8g.jpeg

    Working as intended, eh, Kabam?
  • Speeds80Speeds80 Posts: 885
    Well our experience is that in tier 4 a wall of good defenders was winning about half of the time, so we switched from diversity to tough defense, the problem is we dropped to tier 5 and since you Can see all the defenders it's just too easy, we have taken too long to switch back to diversity and it's just taken any fun out of war we have dropped to tier 6 now and the opponents are still 7-9m alliances. It's 100% clears everytime and just comes down to diversity, and then rating every single time, the lower tiers need toughening up too, if tier 6 is full of 9m alliances these weak nodes are just a walk in the park
  • WC303 wrote: »
    5lu258nr1m8g.jpeg

    Working as intended, eh, Kabam?

    You would have won had you hit 100%.
  • WC303WC303 Posts: 71
    WC303 wrote: »
    5lu258nr1m8g.jpeg

    Working as intended, eh, Kabam?

    You would have won had you hit 100%.

    Yeah, I’m aware. That’s not the point though.
  • LiquidButtLiquidButt Posts: 131
    edited November 2017
    WC303 wrote: »
    WC303 wrote: »
    5lu258nr1m8g.jpeg

    Working as intended, eh, Kabam?

    You would have won had you hit 100%.

    Yeah, I’m aware. That’s not the point though.

    So whats the point? That you guys had more defender rating and diversity and still lost?

    edit: where is the screen shot showing the rest of the stats?
  • MikeHockMikeHock Posts: 755
    Deadbyrd9 wrote: »
    And they don’t want 100% clears across the board every aw so that always conflicts with having more diverse defenses

    and a Map design that makes it very possible and probable that this will happen.

    Just about everything they've said about wars contradicts the current design, point system and overall set up.
  • MikeHockMikeHock Posts: 755
    Speeds80 wrote: »
    Well our experience is that in tier 4 a wall of good defenders was winning about half of the time, so we switched from diversity to tough defense, the problem is we dropped to tier 5 and since you Can see all the defenders it's just too easy, we have taken too long to switch back to diversity and it's just taken any fun out of war we have dropped to tier 6 now and the opponents are still 7-9m alliances. It's 100% clears everytime and just comes down to diversity, and then rating every single time, the lower tiers need toughening up too, if tier 6 is full of 9m alliances these weak nodes are just a walk in the park

    Visible defenders isn't about what tier you're in right now; it's been like this for most of November (see link below). Next update we "should" go back to the old set up where only the boss and mini bosses are visible.

    http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/31133/an-important-announcement-from-the-mcoc-team#latest
  • ViciousJViciousJ Posts: 256
    Bring back defense kills and amount of potions cap to 15 ... otherwise wars will remain useless
  • WC303WC303 Posts: 71
    LiquidButt wrote: »
    WC303 wrote: »
    WC303 wrote: »
    5lu258nr1m8g.jpeg

    Working as intended, eh, Kabam?

    You would have won had you hit 100%.

    Yeah, I’m aware. That’s not the point though.

    So whats the point? That you guys had more defender rating and diversity and still lost?

    edit: where is the screen shot showing the rest of the stats?

    The only stats missing from that screenshot are Defender kills and participants. We had double the defender kills they had, and both alliances had 30 participants. War isn't about having a stronger alliance anymore. The map is super easy so each team is pretty much guaranteed to 100% unless somebody makes a stupid mistake (see screenshot -_- ). Defender kills don't mean anything anymore so it all comes down to diversity and defender rating. If you have a leader that knows what he/she is doing then you should have max diversity points. So defender rating is the tie breaker? That means that it's a **** shoot when alliances with a similar rating go head to head, and an alliance with a higher rating should usually come out on top. That's just dumb, and they need to fix the format.
  • WC303 wrote: »
    Are changes coming to war anytime soon? Seems like enough players have voiced their frustration with and dislike of the new format to warrant changes. War is no longer fun. It's not about who has the stronger alliance or more highly skilled players. It's all about making sure everyone places 5 unique champs in each battlegroup with high PI for defender rating, and then throwing enough potions and revives at the map to get 100%. The nodes aren't challenging at all. Most of them can be taken while still linked. I'm sorry, but it's absolute garbage and change is needed. Defender kills should definitely be part of the equation. Fix it soon, Kabam.

    War.

    War never changes.
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