Why LOL champs aren’t always “GOD Tier”

The latest beta has people rather divided between who is better between Venom and Carnage. I see this kind of debate a lot.

Corvus vs Proxima
Angela vs Hela
Stark Spider vs Star Lord
and now Symbiote v Symbiote

But, there’s one big factor to consider. LoL is a portion of content that allows that level of escalation for most LOL fighters to excel in. Now I won’t go into Sparky and SL because they are both invaluable raw damage champs in the rest of the game. I’d mostly like to talk about the others.

Now Proxima IS a strong champ and useful as a clearer in LOL… but everyday use would probably go to Hyperion or Medusa or CORVUS… because while he’s probably not a LOL champ (I’m not aware of anyone using him to clear it) he'll go through literally everyone else like tissue paper and is a beast in AW, AQ, EQ and Act5

Same with Angela and Hela. Both are Cosmic raw-damage specializing in just a LOT of buffs to maximize attack. Angela usually gets preferential treatment due to her Precision and sustainability but Hela is one of the best options for LOL from what I’ve heard and seen

Now Venom and Carnage are interesting. Venom basically swaps out Carnage’s ramp up for utility. And while Carnage gets his power gain that doesn’t excuse Venom getting a bit of Sustain, Anti-Spider, and Anti-Hero properties while overall mixing crits-Damage-bleed into a swift and effective killing machine. Shorter fights would likely go either way as outside of LOL and maybe the last few quests in Act5 Carnage and Venom are hard to distinguish in damage and only LOL could make that exaggerated enough to allow the ramp up to matter. This isn’t to say Carnage is bad! I love my new Venom and I’ll admit Carnage has better final damage but Carnage has his Anti-Spider and more immediate damage and that brings us back to Star Lord vs Sparky in a way.

•Sparky and SL are comparable in shorter fights like Venom and Carnage.
•Star Lord and Carnage have the better FINAL damage
•Sparky and Venom have more utility tho.

And that’s kinda what I’m trying to try. Yeah Hela can rip apart LOL but Angela is more reliable in general. Proxy is a beast but Corvus can burst down the normal fights. The tech and Symbiote couples are near identical at first but one can hit harder long term and the their has better matchups in everyday play

Comments

issamaf80

So your admitting that Carnage is good for Normal His

Epsilon3

@issamaf80

Context: Carnage and Venom are roughly equal for normal fights in damage, but Carnage gets the LOL ramp up while Venom gets the better matchups in utility

issamaf80

Epsilon3 wrote: »

@issamaf80

Context: Carnage and Venom are roughly equal for normal fights in damage, but Carnage gets the LOL ramp up while Venom gets the better matchups in utility

Good to know that

DNA3000

Epsilon3 wrote: »

•Sparky and SL are comparable in shorter fights like Venom and Carnage.

My first thought was that I must have read that wrong. Stark Enhanced Spiderman deals far more damage than Star Lord in shorter fights, unless you are counting fights that are so short Sparky can't build any poise charges at all. In practice, Sparky is going to significantly outdamage SL in any fight that takes less than maybe a hundred hits to finish.

Epsilon3

DNA3000 wrote: »

Epsilon3 wrote: »

•Sparky and SL are comparable in shorter fights like Venom and Carnage.

My first thought was that I must have read that wrong. Stark Enhanced Spiderman deals far more damage than Star Lord in shorter fights, unless you are counting fights that are so short Sparky can't build any poise charges at all. In practice, Sparky is going to significantly outdamage SL in any fight that takes less than maybe a hundred hits to finish.

Sparky=Venom
SL=Carnage

Think Ch3-UC-EQ bosses because realistically those are the only fights these 2 can properly shine when Act5 is 100%

Sparky gets the special evade, EMP webbing and better initial damage like Duped Venom gets the extra starting buffs, Anti-Spider and True Strike finisher

Carnage gets to be the god of bleed damage while Star Lord gets to play Goku.

I’ll admit that using Sparky and SL in this evaluation is a bit skewed but as they’re paired so often with SL being the “only if you’re doing LOL” and Sparky being usually the better pick that thy fit “ramp up vs immediate” discussion

DNA3000

Epsilon3 wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

Epsilon3 wrote: »

•Sparky and SL are comparable in shorter fights like Venom and Carnage.

My first thought was that I must have read that wrong. Stark Enhanced Spiderman deals far more damage than Star Lord in shorter fights, unless you are counting fights that are so short Sparky can't build any poise charges at all. In practice, Sparky is going to significantly outdamage SL in any fight that takes less than maybe a hundred hits to finish.

Sparky=Venom
SL=Carnage

Think Ch3-UC-EQ bosses because realistically those are the only fights these 2 can properly shine when Act5 is 100%

Sparky gets the special evade, EMP webbing and better initial damage like Duped Venom gets the extra starting buffs, Anti-Spider and True Strike finisher

Carnage gets to be the god of bleed damage while Star Lord gets to play Goku.

I’ll admit that using Sparky and SL in this evaluation is a bit skewed but as they’re paired so often with SL being the “only if you’re doing LOL” and Sparky being usually the better pick that thy fit “ramp up vs immediate” discussion

You didn't seem to be saying that the difference between Venom and Carnage was "ramp up vs immediate" which is analogous to Sparky vs SL. You seem to be saying the difference between Venom and Carnage was utility vs ramp up damage, as you said that Venom and Carnage damage output was indistinguishable outside of very long fights.

midnightking83

Captain Marvel and Ms.Marvel not kamela khan are truly powerful not quite God Tier but pretty strong their second and third special moves are superpowerful

DTMelodicMetal

@Epsilon3 Really like this thread's topic. I'll add that using LOL as the gold standard for evaluating champions is an outdated practice. IMO high tier Alliance War offensive and defensive effectiveness and utility is the most accurate measure of a champion's worth. There aren't many AW node/defender combinations that Sparky can't handle, even Korg gets soloed by Sparky when players remove the dexterity mastery. The same goes for Corvus Glaive and Void, especially when they have their Trinity synergies. Those 3 champions are arguably the best in the game. I'd also rank Doctor Voodoo and Iceman or Blade in the top 5 for their ability to handle most AW node/defender combinations. Domino is up there as well.

CapWW2

Lmao Hyperion is not a LOL champ? And a 5/65 Hyperion soloes maestro under 15 minutes. A 3 million enemy boss??

I am done 😂. Proxima is trash compared to hyperion.

Epsilon3

DNA3000 wrote: »

Epsilon3 wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

Epsilon3 wrote: »

•Sparky and SL are comparable in shorter fights like Venom and Carnage.

My first thought was that I must have read that wrong. Stark Enhanced Spiderman deals far more damage than Star Lord in shorter fights, unless you are counting fights that are so short Sparky can't build any poise charges at all. In practice, Sparky is going to significantly outdamage SL in any fight that takes less than maybe a hundred hits to finish.

Sparky=Venom
SL=Carnage

Think Ch3-UC-EQ bosses because realistically those are the only fights these 2 can properly shine when Act5 is 100%

Sparky gets the special evade, EMP webbing and better initial damage like Duped Venom gets the extra starting buffs, Anti-Spider and True Strike finisher

Carnage gets to be the god of bleed damage while Star Lord gets to play Goku.

I’ll admit that using Sparky and SL in this evaluation is a bit skewed but as they’re paired so often with SL being the “only if you’re doing LOL” and Sparky being usually the better pick that thy fit “ramp up vs immediate” discussion

You didn't seem to be saying that the difference between Venom and Carnage was "ramp up vs immediate" which is analogous to Sparky vs SL. You seem to be saying the difference between Venom and Carnage was utility vs ramp up damage, as you said that Venom and Carnage damage output was indistinguishable outside of very long fights.

Long vs Short. Fundamentally both Sparky and SL are overkill. Sparky YES is the better option because of that speedy take-down. But where Spidey will max out pretty quick Star Lord can be boosted to upwards of 40k attack at max.

Sparky IS the quick killer. Sparky and SL have comparable “ranges” of damage potential that most people seem to agree that they are wicked strong at and super helpful and reliable at but where sparky gets there first SL will overtake that spot and become LOL worthy.

In comparison Venom technically has potential to start with a reasonable headstart on Carnage thanks to his signature ability but Carnage will cut deeper and harder when he’s sufficiently set up.

My main point was to demonstrate Carnage isn’t necessarily better than Venom because Ramp-Up and Immediate are HUGE factors.

Sure SL and Sparky aren’t a 1 to 1 with the Symbiote Father Son dream-team but they’re close enough. One of them members has more utility and arguably a better starting position where the other one will basically kill ANYTHING provided enough time.

Epsilon3

CapWW2 wrote: »

Lmao Hyperion is not a LOL champ? And a 5/65 Hyperion soloes maestro under 15 minutes. A 3 million enemy boss??

I am done 😂. Proxima is trash compared to hyperion.

That’s cool… no one mentioned Hyperion. I said Proxima and Corvus becaus they were released together, and their abilities (buffs) are relatively the same toolkit. Obviously Hyperion is an AMAZING champ but who is he often debated against when ranking up? Medusa?…

Actually kinda I guess. 🤷‍♂️ IDK I was mostly kinda annoyed with people saying CARNAGE IS BETTER solely because of LOL potential and ignoring Venom’s utilities.

Ashburn

CapWW2 wrote: »

Lmao Hyperion is not a LOL champ? And a 5/65 Hyperion soloes maestro under 15 minutes. A 3 million enemy boss??

I am done 😂. Proxima is trash compared to hyperion.

Bro have you not the slightest idea what 4 furies and 800% boost in special damage can do for proxima??? Don't call her trash unless you know how to use her. Yes hyperion is beast but I'd choose her for LOL over him.

DTMelodicMetal

CapWW2 wrote: »

Lmao Hyperion is not a LOL champ? And a 5/65 Hyperion soloes maestro under 15 minutes. A 3 million enemy boss??

I am done 😂. Proxima is trash compared to hyperion.

Proxima's utility is more useful than her damage in LOL. We've yet to get game content where Proxima's damage potential is fully appreciated. Act 6 might change that.

Suel

I missed the point of this thread. Like god tier champs were an official Kabam list, and not some youtubers garbage picks

Epsilon3

Suel wrote: »

I missed the point of this thread. Like god tier champs were an official Kabam list, and not some youtubers garbage picks

“God tier” is subjective, true. However, I was referring to it being comparatively to their “counterpart”

But I was making an example about how Venom is technically a better champ than Carnage in most circumstances and that we as a community shouldn’t praise or dismiss certain champs because of a very small section of the game

GamePlayWorld

Ashburn wrote: »

CapWW2 wrote: »

Lmao Hyperion is not a LOL champ? And a 5/65 Hyperion soloes maestro under 15 minutes. A 3 million enemy boss??

I am done 😂. Proxima is trash compared to hyperion.

Bro have you not the slightest idea what 4 furies and 800% boost in special damage can do for proxima??? Don't call her trash unless you know how to use her. Yes hyperion is beast but I'd choose her for LOL over him.

the 50 million per hit thing in LOL if this wasnt a thing then a 5/65 proxima sig 200 would destroy lol kabam added this 50000 for a reason due to further champs to be released in the future

GamePlayWorld

she would be god if the 50000 thing wss not a thing

unknown

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issamaf80

Epsilon3 wrote: »

CapWW2 wrote: »

Lmao Hyperion is not a LOL champ? And a 5/65 Hyperion soloes maestro under 15 minutes. A 3 million enemy boss??

I am done 😂. Proxima is trash compared to hyperion.

That’s cool… no one mentioned Hyperion. I said Proxima and Corvus becaus they were released together, and their abilities (buffs) are relatively the same toolkit. Obviously Hyperion is an AMAZING champ but who is he often debated against when ranking up? Medusa?…

Actually kinda I guess. 🤷‍♂️ IDK I was mostly kinda annoyed with people saying CARNAGE IS BETTER solely because of LOL potential and ignoring Venom’s utilities.

Really people are the one that ignore cranage not venom

And carnage is better

issamaf80

Epsilon3 wrote: »

Suel wrote: »

I missed the point of this thread. Like god tier champs were an official Kabam list, and not some youtubers garbage picks

“God tier” is subjective, true. However, I was referring to it being comparatively to their “counterpart”

But I was making an example about how Venom is technically a better champ than Carnage in most circumstances and that we as a community shouldn’t praise or dismiss certain champs because of a very small section of the game

me I Ranked My 5 Star Carnage and venom Isn't that great at utility if he counter Iron Man Infinity War With Unblocbull sp at 18% carnage has it all the time used him against an Infinity Iron man in war ( it was a piece of cake using carnage )

And Carnage is Bleed King he have more bleed then GP And Kilmonger and archangel and Domino )

He can take RedHulk in less hit then starlord ( Knowing That Carnage sp has a lot of hit )

And Blade Too and Carnage For lol only No he's Good and Longer Fight too and he's Ramp up is Faster

issamaf80

Hits don't mean anything when carnage does so many in such a shorts space of time. Time to kill on fights is a better way of looking at it.

Jaffacaked

issamaf80 wrote: »

Hits don't mean anything when carnage does so many in such a shorts space of time. Time to kill on fights is a better way of looking at it.

Haha you just copied an pasted my comment,
From another thread, could of at least taken out the typo lol

Nojokejaym

i have venom and carnage 5* 3/45 both duped. i use venom for spiderverse champs he wrecks them and carnage for autoblock champs he wrecks them because once you place a bleed his specials become unblockable

Helicopter_dugdugdug

Venom is better than Carnage.

Carnage only has damage with zero utility. And in that damage category, he gets outdone by many champs. Venom has utility and is useful in 3 mins fights

issamaf80

Jaffacaked wrote: »

issamaf80 wrote: »

Hits don't mean anything when carnage does so many in such a shorts space of time. Time to kill on fights is a better way of looking at it.

Haha you just copied an pasted my comment,
From another thread, could of at least taken out the typo lol

Hhh Yes I saw You Comment I give you credit for that

issamaf80

Helicopter_dugdugdug wrote: »

Venom is better than Carnage.

Carnage only has damage with zero utility. And in that damage category, he gets outdone by many champs. Venom has utility and is useful in 3 mins fights

Really

Mirage_Turtle

Can't we all just agree that some will prefer Venom while others will prefer Carnage? This isn't the kind of thing that really needs consensus.