Are Sabretooth's furies affected by diminishing returns?

I did the math, and at ST's maximum 30 furies, my r5 should have like 90K+ attack... I can't really test it because nothing survives the first hit.

Can a mod clarify?

Comments

Gildenlow

Hamin wrote: »

I did the math, and at ST's maximum 30 furies, my r5 should have like 90K+ attack... I can't really test it because nothing survives the first hit.

Can a mod clarify?

How do you stack 30 furies?

Hamin

Synergy and sp3 carry over.

belli300

What syngery I thought the max was 15 furies

Sceptilemaniac

belli300 wrote: »

What syngery I thought the max was 15 furies

The synergy where he gets a fury at the start of the fight against mutants.
Also, he can convert all furies he has active at the end of the fight.

Hamin

Have to have 6 persistent charges.
Have to fight 7 mutants.
Have to end fights with a hit fury active and an sp3.

https://youtu.be/kwlqrN4Ll7s

Shrimkins

The attack and health stats are the only stats in the game not effected by diminishing returns.

Hamin

Shrimkins wrote: »

The attack and health stats are the only stats in the game not effected by diminishing returns.

I thought I remember fury not being affected.

Shrimkins

Hamin wrote: »

Shrimkins wrote: »

The attack and health stats are the only stats in the game not effected by diminishing returns.

I thought I remember fury not being affected.

Correct. Fury just adds to attack so there are no diminishing returns.

AxeCopFire

Shrimkins wrote: »

The attack and health stats are the only stats in the game not effected by diminishing returns.

I'm pretty sure that this has never been stated anywhere. Attack is one of the main stats affected by diminishing returns. The higher your attack goes the less effect further increases have on it, so the furies themselves would not be affected (each fury will add the stated amount to attack) but the amount of damage done will not increase as much for each fury applied.

Shrimkins

AxeCopFire wrote: »

Shrimkins wrote: »

The attack and health stats are the only stats in the game not effected by diminishing returns.

I'm pretty sure that this has never been stated anywhere. Attack is one of the main stats affected by diminishing returns. The higher your attack goes the less effect further increases have on it, so the furies themselves would not be affected (each fury will add the stated amount to attack) but the amount of damage done will not increase as much for each fury applied.

It has been stated before but I'm not digging through 2 years worth of dev posts to find it.

The only stats effected by DR are as follows: Crit rating, crit damage rating, block proficiency, armor, crit resistance, and block penetration. EDIT: also forgot armor penetration.

CoatHang3r

AxeCopFire wrote: »

Shrimkins wrote: »

The attack and health stats are the only stats in the game not effected by diminishing returns.

I'm pretty sure that this has never been stated anywhere. Attack is one of the main stats affected by diminishing returns. The higher your attack goes the less effect further increases have on it, so the furies themselves would not be affected (each fury will add the stated amount to attack) but the amount of damage done will not increase as much for each fury applied.

You might want to test that out. Direct damage is a good way to get exact numbers for how much more damage you are doing as your attack rating increases, its a good source because it bypasses armor and resistances which skew the numbers. I have never evidenced attack being subject to diminishing returns. I have used bleed to verify attack increases of synergies n what not.

Now once upon a time (i recall) Adora mistakingly (i believe) said fury was subject to diminishing returns, I haven’t seen fury being subject to diminishing returns.

THere should be a thread in news and annoucements about diminishing returns, i think its “diminishing returns and you”.

V1PER1987

Shrimkins wrote: »

AxeCopFire wrote: »

Shrimkins wrote: »

The attack and health stats are the only stats in the game not effected by diminishing returns.

I'm pretty sure that this has never been stated anywhere. Attack is one of the main stats affected by diminishing returns. The higher your attack goes the less effect further increases have on it, so the furies themselves would not be affected (each fury will add the stated amount to attack) but the amount of damage done will not increase as much for each fury applied.

It has been stated before but I'm not digging through 2 years worth of dev posts to find it.

The only stats effected by DR are as follows: Crit rating, crit damage rating, block proficiency, armor, crit resistance, and block penetration. EDIT: also forgot armor penetration.

Those are the stats affected by challenger rating. I don’t think they ever made an official post about diminishing returns. In their announcements section there’s an announcement about diminishing returns that’s basically just an example. Furthermore Miike said they were working on a graph to better illustrate and hope to explain DR more. That was in May 2017.

Shrimkins

V1PER1987 wrote: »

Shrimkins wrote: »

AxeCopFire wrote: »

Shrimkins wrote: »

The attack and health stats are the only stats in the game not effected by diminishing returns.

I'm pretty sure that this has never been stated anywhere. Attack is one of the main stats affected by diminishing returns. The higher your attack goes the less effect further increases have on it, so the furies themselves would not be affected (each fury will add the stated amount to attack) but the amount of damage done will not increase as much for each fury applied.

It has been stated before but I'm not digging through 2 years worth of dev posts to find it.

The only stats effected by DR are as follows: Crit rating, crit damage rating, block proficiency, armor, crit resistance, and block penetration. EDIT: also forgot armor penetration.

Those are the stats affected by challenger rating. I don’t think they ever made an official post about diminishing returns. In their announcements section there’s an announcement about diminishing returns that’s basically just an example. Furthermore Miike said they were working on a graph to better illustrate and hope to explain DR more. That was in May 2017.

DR and CR are inextricably linked. Only stats that are effected by CR are subject to DR and vice-versa.

CoatHang3r

V1PER1987 wrote: »

Shrimkins wrote: »

AxeCopFire wrote: »

Shrimkins wrote: »

The attack and health stats are the only stats in the game not effected by diminishing returns.

I'm pretty sure that this has never been stated anywhere. Attack is one of the main stats affected by diminishing returns. The higher your attack goes the less effect further increases have on it, so the furies themselves would not be affected (each fury will add the stated amount to attack) but the amount of damage done will not increase as much for each fury applied.

It has been stated before but I'm not digging through 2 years worth of dev posts to find it.

The only stats effected by DR are as follows: Crit rating, crit damage rating, block proficiency, armor, crit resistance, and block penetration. EDIT: also forgot armor penetration.

Those are the stats affected by challenger rating. I don’t think they ever made an official post about diminishing returns. In their announcements section there’s an announcement about diminishing returns that’s basically just an example. Furthermore Miike said they were working on a graph to better illustrate and hope to explain DR more. That was in May 2017.

“Speaking of ‘other changes’... Diminishing Returns.

Diminishing Returns is a fairly common system in many games that is used to limit the effectiveness of hyper min-maxing. As an example, a 100% damage reduction from stacking armour.

When we designed content for Labyrinth and Realm, we had to massively inflate the base champion attributes way beyond regular champions in order to provide the level of difficulty needed to challenge the god-tier champions in the hands of also very skilled players. The only two stats in the game that are not impacted by Diminishing Returns are Attack and Health. This is because these two stats easily scale infinitely together, and act as the base numbers for most Champion abilities. As an example, you can increase attack forever because it just does more damage, but if your block proficiency hits 100%, it doesn’t matter what the attack value is anymore, because you always take zero damage.“

Shrimkins

CoatHang3r wrote: »

V1PER1987 wrote: »

Shrimkins wrote: »

AxeCopFire wrote: »

Shrimkins wrote: »

The attack and health stats are the only stats in the game not effected by diminishing returns.

I'm pretty sure that this has never been stated anywhere. Attack is one of the main stats affected by diminishing returns. The higher your attack goes the less effect further increases have on it, so the furies themselves would not be affected (each fury will add the stated amount to attack) but the amount of damage done will not increase as much for each fury applied.

It has been stated before but I'm not digging through 2 years worth of dev posts to find it.

The only stats effected by DR are as follows: Crit rating, crit damage rating, block proficiency, armor, crit resistance, and block penetration. EDIT: also forgot armor penetration.

Those are the stats affected by challenger rating. I don’t think they ever made an official post about diminishing returns. In their announcements section there’s an announcement about diminishing returns that’s basically just an example. Furthermore Miike said they were working on a graph to better illustrate and hope to explain DR more. That was in May 2017.

“Speaking of ‘other changes’... Diminishing Returns.

Diminishing Returns is a fairly common system in many games that is used to limit the effectiveness of hyper min-maxing. As an example, a 100% damage reduction from stacking armour.

When we designed content for Labyrinth and Realm, we had to massively inflate the base champion attributes way beyond regular champions in order to provide the level of difficulty needed to challenge the god-tier champions in the hands of also very skilled players. The only two stats in the game that are not impacted by Diminishing Returns are Attack and Health. This is because these two stats easily scale infinitely together, and act as the base numbers for most Champion abilities. As an example, you can increase attack forever because it just does more damage, but if your block proficiency hits 100%, it doesn’t matter what the attack value is anymore, because you always take zero damage.“

Thanks! I was admittedly trying to find that post as well haha.

DNA3000

Shrimkins wrote: »

V1PER1987 wrote: »

Shrimkins wrote: »

AxeCopFire wrote: »

Shrimkins wrote: »

The attack and health stats are the only stats in the game not effected by diminishing returns.

I'm pretty sure that this has never been stated anywhere. Attack is one of the main stats affected by diminishing returns. The higher your attack goes the less effect further increases have on it, so the furies themselves would not be affected (each fury will add the stated amount to attack) but the amount of damage done will not increase as much for each fury applied.

It has been stated before but I'm not digging through 2 years worth of dev posts to find it.

The only stats effected by DR are as follows: Crit rating, crit damage rating, block proficiency, armor, crit resistance, and block penetration. EDIT: also forgot armor penetration.

Those are the stats affected by challenger rating. I don’t think they ever made an official post about diminishing returns. In their announcements section there’s an announcement about diminishing returns that’s basically just an example. Furthermore Miike said they were working on a graph to better illustrate and hope to explain DR more. That was in May 2017.

DR and CR are inextricably linked. Only stats that are effected by CR are subject to DR and vice-versa.

Correct. Challenge rating is a diminishing returns modifier. By definition anything affected by one must be affected by the other. It is impossible to be affected by CR and not DR, or vice versa.

The post on CR is here: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/2317/challenger-rating-explained

The post mentions all stats affected by CR, and thus DR: "Armor, Armor Penetration, Critical Hit Rating, Critical Damage Rating, Critical Resistance, Block Proficiency, Block Penetration"

Also, anything that modifies these stats must, by definition, be affected by both CR and DR, since those things adjust the stat which itself then gets sent through the DR formula. The one exception is the Parry block bonus which is explicitly not a flat stat bonus, it is a percentage applied to the block stat after it is adjusted by DR.

Something to keep in mind: the Diminishing Returns formula spits out a number between zero and one. It is typically interpreted as a percentage. Anything which very obviously takes on values higher than one cannot be a stat affected by DR. The one exception is critical damage rating which has a very special formula: critical damage bonus is the DR adjusted value of the critical damage stat, multiplied by 5, and then increased by 0.5. In other words, if your critical damage stat would be 0.5 when adjusted by DR, your actual critical damage bonus is 3 which is 0.5 * 5 + 0.5 = 3.0. That gets interpreted by the game as "300%".

Rule of thumb: when you see something like a Fury ability increasing attack by, say, 400, that's either a true increase, or if you think that is affected by Diminishing Returns then that increase will be something like 0.167 when affected by DR. If you think it is unlikely the game is increasing your attack by 0.167, then it isn't a DR-affected value.

Worth repeating. MCOC's diminishing returns system doesn't turn 400 into 350. It turns 400 into 0.167. It doesn't reduce values. It squashes them into the range of zero to one. It was intended to work on game stats that are effectively percentages, which only generally take values from zero to one (100%). That's why the special formula for critical damage, and why Parry had to be made an exception to the DR system.

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Whats diminishing returns?