Fix Ghost Rider

Azariah

Thanks for fixing the shock champs, now can you please fix Ghost Rider, he should be immune to incinerate

Comments

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Technically, he shouldn't.
And he is not broken

DNA3000

Azariah wrote: »

Thanks for fixing the shock champs, now can you please fix Ghost Rider, he should be immune to incinerate

This comes up a lot. There's two answers to this. The in-game answer is: Ghost Rider has no special immunity to incineration. On Earth-616, Ghost Rider is immune to practically all non-mystical damage. But on the Contest of Champions world in the dimension Earth TRN517 those immunities do not apply. Ghost Rider doesn't bleed because he literally has nothing to bleed. But he can be damaged by incineration-type damage which on Earth TRN517 encompasses everything from flamethrowers to Phoenix's cosmic fire to Hyperion's laser beam eyes. The physics on the battleworld of Earth TRN517 is surprisingly simplified, almost like a video game.

Some people think Ghost Rider should be immune to incineration because he's on fire and that fire doesn't hurt him. Ghost Rider is not "on fire." He is surrounded by the mystical flames known as Hellfire that are magical constructs. They *can* burn if he chooses to use them that way, but they only burn when he wills them to. Normal humans that touch the Ghost Rider on Earth-616 or stand next to him do not burst into flames.

The meta out-of-game answer is that Ghost Rider is plenty powerful and the devs don't want to add to his already substantial performance by making him immune to everything from Mephisto's aura to Hyperion's eye blasts to Massacre's flames on top of everything else he can do.

StarDarts_89

He could technically be immune to just about anything, just being fire & bones. But he's already very powerful. Making him incinerate immune might cross the line...

Midknight007

will-o-wisp wrote: »

Technically, he shouldn't.
And he is not broken

I agree that he is not broken, but what technicality is there for not being immune to fire?

Here is a list of the Rider’s powers... it specifically states invulnerability to all types of fire:

Fighter092

I think you are the kind of people that wants every champion in the game be OP. GR is fine in fact he is a very good champion.

unknown

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Midknight007

DNA3000 wrote: »

Azariah wrote: »

Thanks for fixing the shock champs, now can you please fix Ghost Rider, he should be immune to incinerate

This comes up a lot. There's two answers to this. The in-game answer is: Ghost Rider has no special immunity to incineration. On Earth-616, Ghost Rider is immune to practically all non-mystical damage. But on the Contest of Champions world in the dimension Earth TRN517 those immunities do not apply. Ghost Rider doesn't bleed because he literally has nothing to bleed. But he can be damaged by incineration-type damage which on Earth TRN517 encompasses everything from flamethrowers to Phoenix's cosmic fire to Hyperion's laser beam eyes. The physics on the battleworld of Earth TRN517 is surprisingly simplified, almost like a video game.

Some people think Ghost Rider should be immune to incineration because he's on fire and that fire doesn't hurt him. Ghost Rider is not "on fire." He is surrounded by the mystical flames known as Hellfire that are magical constructs. They *can* burn if he chooses to use them that way, but they only burn when he wills them to. Normal humans that touch the Ghost Rider on Earth-616 or stand next to him do not burst into flames.

The meta out-of-game answer is that Ghost Rider is plenty powerful and the devs don't want to add to his already substantial performance by making him immune to everything from Mephisto's aura to Hyperion's eye blasts to Massacre's flames on top of everything else he can do.

Actualy you are wrong. The Rider is immune to flames, lava, fire... just because he is comprised of mystical fire does not mean fire hurts him because they are not the same. I am a huge Ghost Rider fan, and he has always had invulnerability to normal fire, flames... Marvel has gone to GREAT extent to state Hellfire>Fire.

In fact, the only Fire know to actual hurt the Rider was in the 90’s Danny Ketch version. The scene imparticulare was when Johnny Blaze was hunting him and the Rider touched Blaze’s shotgun and engulfed Blaze in flame (Issue 14 of the 1991 series). The shotgun absorbed the power/hellfire of GR (mainly because Blaze was a previous Rider himself), and could effect the Ketch version as it was forged by his own power.

Sure, Kabam’s world you can say “physics are different” and Fire works differently, that to me is a cop out instead of honestly looking at the Rider’s invulnerabilities. Remember, he is a demon forged in the fires of Hell. The same fires that empower Mephisto (which is immune and gains power when set on fire).

I agree he doesn’t need to be updated too much, but fire immune is not going to make him OP.

Thiartc

so yeah, flames around GR aren't real flames, cool, but why cant a guy fully made of ice not be burned by flames?

should red hulk not get furies rather than be burned by incinerate, cause Red Hulk really only start kicking @ss when he has starts building charges?

but the lighting changes makes sense, but not really, Thor is the God of Thunder, why, but why would electrical damage do anything to him, should it not just rather make him more angry, and by more angry I mean maybe if he gets shocked, give him a fury buff on top of the damage reduction?

Midknight007

Thiartc wrote: »

so yeah, flames around GR aren't real flames, cool, but why cant a guy fully made of ice not be burned by flames?

should red hulk not get furies rather than be burned by incinerate, cause Red Hulk really only start kicking @ss when he has starts building charges?

but the lighting changes makes sense, but not really, Thor is the God of Thunder, why, but why would electrical damage do anything to him, should it not just rather make him more angry, and by more angry I mean maybe if he gets shocked, give him a fury buff on top of the damage reduction?

Not to mention that in the movie, Thor Rag was shocked by a taser implant. Plot continuity oversight. So, guess that is why Kabam reduced damage and duration by 40%. Odin did say that Mjolnir allowed Thor to focus his power, but wasn’t the source of them. So, it could be argued that with Mjolnir, Thor became too reliant on the hammer. Without it, he had the powers, but they were latent and he had no idea how to control them because he always relied on Mjolnir.

Maybe when he is not Supe Saiyan Thor, he can be effected by shock and electricit. However, not when he is not manifesting his Powers’s.

XxLoganTDCxX

There's not much champs that have incinerate, so I really have no problem with GR not being immune to it.

Ghostspider231

Technically Doctor Voodoo should be immune to incinerate because his comic character is immune to fire. That wouldn’t make him too overpowered.

DNA3000

Thiartc wrote: »

so yeah, flames around GR aren't real flames, cool, but why cant a guy fully made of ice not be burned by flames?

Because Earth TRN517 is ruled by a being that makes those decisions that sits above The Maestro, The Collector, and The Gamesmaster and known only as "The Producer."

Hendross

StarDarts_89 wrote: »

He could technically be immune to just about anything, just being fire & bones. But he's already very powerful. Making him incinerate immune might cross the line...

Immune to incineration and +200% damage from osteoporosis

Aleor

iceman should be immune to cold as well (:
dorm incinerate immune
robots immune to sparky taunts and emma frost inverse control

LeNoirFaineant

Iceman should be immune to cold. That's the one that no amount of explaining can fix lol. I'm OK with GR not being immune to incinerate.

Midknight007

DNA3000 wrote: »

Thiartc wrote: »

so yeah, flames around GR aren't real flames, cool, but why cant a guy fully made of ice not be burned by flames?

Because Earth TRN517 is ruled by a being that makes those decisions that sits above The Maestro, The Collector, and The Gamesmaster and known only as "The Producer."

You mean the Kabam CEO lol

DNA3000

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

Iceman should be immune to cold. That's the one that no amount of explaining can fix lol. I'm OK with GR not being immune to incinerate.

Actually, there is a legitimate explanation for that which agrees both with comic book physics and real physics, at least within the limits of a video game's simplifications. Iceman doesn't just "generate cold" because "generate cold" is not a thing. Cold is the absence of heat, and the only way to make things cold is to subtract heat from them. While Iceman might be immune to *cold environments* he might not be immune to things directly draining energy from him, like say another Iceman. The notion that Iceman actually manipulates kinetic energy at the molecular level rather than "generate cold" is currently canonical in the Marvel Universe.

Iceman is an Omega level mutant in the Marvel Universe in terms of his control over kinetic energy and his organic form, a level of power he's not allowed to have on Earth TRN517.

LeNoirFaineant

DNA3000 wrote: »

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

Iceman should be immune to cold. That's the one that no amount of explaining can fix lol. I'm OK with GR not being immune to incinerate.

Actually, there is a legitimate explanation for that which agrees both with comic book physics and real physics, at least within the limits of a video game's simplifications. Iceman doesn't just "generate cold" because "generate cold" is not a thing. Cold is the absence of heat, and the only way to make things cold is to subtract heat from them. While Iceman might be immune to *cold environments* he might not be immune to things directly draining energy from him, like say another Iceman. The notion that Iceman actually manipulates kinetic energy at the molecular level rather than "generate cold" is currently canonical in the Marvel Universe.

Iceman is an Omega level mutant in the Marvel Universe in terms of his control over kinetic energy and his organic form, a level of power he's not allowed to have on Earth TRN517.

That's easily the best argument for the current state of affairs I have heard. It's still bs lol but it's easier to accept with some justification. But if he is drawing heat/energy at the same time wouldn't it at least cancel out the potential damage from the other iceman?

DNA3000

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

LeNoirFaineant wrote: »

Iceman should be immune to cold. That's the one that no amount of explaining can fix lol. I'm OK with GR not being immune to incinerate.

Actually, there is a legitimate explanation for that which agrees both with comic book physics and real physics, at least within the limits of a video game's simplifications. Iceman doesn't just "generate cold" because "generate cold" is not a thing. Cold is the absence of heat, and the only way to make things cold is to subtract heat from them. While Iceman might be immune to *cold environments* he might not be immune to things directly draining energy from him, like say another Iceman. The notion that Iceman actually manipulates kinetic energy at the molecular level rather than "generate cold" is currently canonical in the Marvel Universe.

Iceman is an Omega level mutant in the Marvel Universe in terms of his control over kinetic energy and his organic form, a level of power he's not allowed to have on Earth TRN517.

That's easily the best argument for the current state of affairs I have heard. It's still bs lol but it's easier to accept with some justification. But if he is drawing heat/energy at the same time wouldn't it at least cancel out the potential damage from the other iceman?

The heat energy has to go into Marvel pocket dimension magic land, because if the heat energy actually went into Iceman then Iceman goes from being an Omega level energy manipulator to a beyond Omega level kinetic energy bomb.

All comic book physics starts off 80% bs, and a good comic book physics explanation tries to add no more than ten percentage points to the total. Iceman started off being able to freeze water, but there's not enough water in any kind of reasonable air to allow him to do the stuff he does. Also, no matter how cold you can make the surroundings, a hot object will only cool down so much. I used to play with liquid nitrogen back when I was young and stupid: my own body heat could easily overcome the cooling capability of something at -321 degrees F for a significant amount of time. The modern interpretation is surface-plausible, if you ignore basically all the laws of conservation of energy and thermodynamics. And that's before all the "organic ice" stuff that puts his powers back into fantasy land.

unknown

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DNA3000

Midknight007 wrote: »

Actualy you are wrong. The Rider is immune to flames, lava, fire... just because he is comprised of mystical fire does not mean fire hurts him because they are not the same.

Actually, you are wrong. Doubly wrong. First, I did not say the Ghost Rider is not immune to fire or that because he is composed of mystical fire that fire still hurts him. I said he has no *special* immunity to fire. And second, if you're going to use wikipedia as your information source, then this comes from the wikipedia section on Ghost Rider (specifically, the Johnny Blaze/Zarathos version):

He also possesses heightened reflexes and superhuman strength, as well as almost total invulnerability to physical damage. Any damage he does take is quickly recovered, as Ghost Rider is made of pure hellfire, which he can use to immediately regenerate any lost limbs or holes in his body.

Note: the iteration of Ghost Rider in the game is referenced to be a derivation of the Johnny Blaze Ghost Rider in the champion bio.

Sure, on Earth-616 Ghost Rider is immune to fire. I've stated this many times. He is also immune to punches, kicks, bullets, swords, explosions, laser beams, baseball bats and taco tuesday. But not on Earth TRN517.

Midknight007

DNA3000 wrote: »

Midknight007 wrote: »

Actualy you are wrong. The Rider is immune to flames, lava, fire... just because he is comprised of mystical fire does not mean fire hurts him because they are not the same.

Actually, you are wrong. Doubly wrong. First, I did not say the Ghost Rider is not immune to fire or that because he is composed of mystical fire that fire still hurts him. I said he has no *special* immunity to fire. And second, if you're going to use wikipedia as your information source, then this comes from the wikipedia section on Ghost Rider (specifically, the Johnny Blaze/Zarathos version):

He also possesses heightened reflexes and superhuman strength, as well as almost total invulnerability to physical damage. Any damage he does take is quickly recovered, as Ghost Rider is made of pure hellfire, which he can use to immediately regenerate any lost limbs or holes in his body.

Note: the iteration of Ghost Rider in the game is referenced to be a derivation of the Johnny Blaze Ghost Rider in the champion bio.

Sure, on Earth-616 Ghost Rider is immune to fire. I've stated this many times. He is also immune to punches, kicks, bullets, swords, explosions, laser beams, baseball bats and taco tuesday. But not on Earth TRN517.

Actually, I pulled it from the general Ghost Rider, not the Blaze specific one.

I am sorry but several things you claim about the Rider’s power (which there are several and all share the same power) that are false.

1) It does burn those near him. Not true... It HAS physically burned people within close proximity. The flames are u dear total control of the Rider and can burn either the soul (which is solely Hellfire) or the lesser form of physical fire that burns the actual body. The Danny Ketch Rider has even burn the face of a villain. If you want, I will gladly bust out my collection and span pictures for you.

2) The Rider has been hit by an RPG from Punisher in 1990 Vol 2 Issue 5. The Rider was blown back by the concussion and not burned from any flames in any way. the Alejandra Jones version fought Mephisto on a lake of lava without being burned or effected in any way.

You are simply trying to justify why he isn’t in the game. I applaude you for your attempts. However, fire has no effect and he is complete invulnerable to any flame save the Hellfire Shotgun that was forged in accident by an altercation with Johnny Blaze.

While yes, TRN517 could have any “physics” you want to throw out there, but as Deadpool would say:

You are simply trying to justify the lazy code writing. The real honest reason why GR is not immune in the game, it was not an ability when he was first introduced. Much like electro wasn’t immune to electricity or shock... It was lack of foresight, not some well debated conversation of physics of realities.

StarDarts_89

Midknight007 wrote: »

will-o-wisp wrote: »

Technically, he shouldn't.
And he is not broken

I agree that he is not broken, but what technicality is there for not being immune to fire?

Here is a list of the Rider’s powers... it specifically states invulnerability to all types of fire:

I also see Immortality, Resurrection & Invulnerability. He should have all those too. I also don't see why Hawkeye, Black Widow, Capt America or Winter Soldier are able to hurt him at all, so that should be changed. And he shouldn't take any damage from Shock, Poison, Coldsnap... or really just about any debuff. Also, after Ghost Rider would die in any fight, Zatharos should come out & automatically win the fight. There! Ghost Rider is FIXED!

Midknight007

StarDarts_89 wrote: »

Midknight007 wrote: »

will-o-wisp wrote: »

Technically, he shouldn't.
And he is not broken

I agree that he is not broken, but what technicality is there for not being immune to fire?

Here is a list of the Rider’s powers... it specifically states invulnerability to all types of fire:

I also see Immortality, Resurrection & Invulnerability. He should have all those too. I also don't see why Hawkeye, Black Widow, Capt America or Winter Soldier are able to hurt him at all, so that should be changed. And he shouldn't take any damage from Shock, Poison, Coldsnap... or really just about any debuff. Also, after Ghost Rider would die in any fight, Zatharos should come out & automatically win the fight. There! Ghost Rider is FIXED!

That would be too far, and everyone agrees... but making him fire immune would not be game breaking and makes a no sense (even with DNA3000’s pseudo science of TRN517 which when checking the Fandom Wiki for Kabam’s Marvel and all things marvel does not state).

Please do not speak a hyperbole an interject the opinion that I am saying he needs all the powers listed. I was specific speaking honestly as to why he should despite best efforts to manufacture a counter argument that is clearly an programming oversight.

Realize this, there were no incinerate champions until Hyperion. Even WS did not incinerate, nor Red Hulk (they were not reworked). Champions are not crafted by a single designer with maybe some help of a few others and under the oversight of a supervisor with permission given by management. There are times they do not know to full extent what powers other upcoming characters have, and may not link that an old character (or even a currently under production one) should indeed be immune... like Electro never placed shocks on targets and wasn’t immune (or gained health and power back like Ultron).

His immunity was not given because there was one one champ that could incinerate, and he had a class disadvantage to GR... not because they consulted the Steven Hawkins of TRN517 to see if the physics of the new Marvel “reality” allows it. Also, GR can power control (but not to any great degree as to really prevent Hype from getting to a full power bar).

However, as the range of champs that can incinerate and are immune increases with every passing year. It makes more and more sense that GR should in fact carry this immunity despite the need to completely balance him.

Also, GR can be physically destroyed and has... however, he simply reforms which makes him immune to all physical damage. In the Sleepy Hollow spin-off, he had his head blown off from a shotgun, to reform it immediately. Limbs have been severed only to reform.

It could be argued, that even after he is KO’ed, he simply comes back to the players roster without the help or need of the “physics” of TRN517.

Midknight007

Also, as many of my Alliance have stated... Despite of his great amount of utility as a champion, his damage output is very low (even with his awakened ability - and for sure without the awakened ability).

The added fire immunity, and possibly posion, are a better balance to game mechanics under the newer meta as to allow him to last longer in a fight to be within specs to several high damage output champs.

unknown

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Midknight007

Haji_Saab wrote: »

Dormammu should be immune to physical punches.

This discussion is about GR, not Dormammu. And the request you propose is completely game breaking and in no comparison to GR being fire immune.

unknown

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Arham1

Well if you wanna give Ghost Rider a buff then...let's see..... Blade's Signature ability is Vampiric Immortality..... Immortality? Well....Blade can't Die!!! How can he even lose a battle??.....stop it ....stop posting "Hey! Please Fix Ghost rider!;he should be OP" well I think you need to learn things...Why would ghost rider be immune to incinerate if Incinerate damage comes from Hyperion's eyes? Oh I get it! Because you want your champ to be overpowered! That's it! Stop this!

Midknight007

Haji_Saab wrote: »

Midknight007 wrote: »

Haji_Saab wrote: »

Dormammu should be immune to physical punches.

This discussion is about GR, not Dormammu. And the request you propose is completely game breaking and in no comparison to GR being fire immune.

What technicality is there for Dormammu to be not immune to punches from Hawkeye?

Btw, the only reason they updated the shock immunities is because they are bringing shock nodes in map 7. May be, if we see more incinerate nodes in the future, we will get some sort of immunity for GR.

Total immunity to 90% of physical attacks is game breaking... I mean you really needed me to point that out?

This is about GR being immune to incinerate which only is done by a handful of champions and it is a byproduct of a special in almost all cases. The special (physical hits) would still do damage to GR... he would not get debugged for extra damage. That is a huge difference to what you are proposing.

Map 7 isn’t the only reason, Kabam stated they plan on reworking past champs. However, that takes time. I am not saying that GR needs to be updated now or is broken. I am simply stating there is a perfect example as to why he should be immune to incinerate. Outside of that, no other rework is needed.