**UPDATES TO ENLISTMENT GIFTING EVENT:**
To prevent exploitation, we will prevent new Accounts from being able to Gift enlistment crystals. We will also be taking action on those who are using 3rd Party Sellers, Bots and other farms to gift themselves mass amounts of Enlistment Crystals. Lastly, we will be adding an expiration timer to Enlistment Crystals. All unopened Enlistment Crystals will expire on Oct 18 @ 17:00 UTC. For more information, please see this post: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/346104/updates-to-enlistment-gifting-event
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Gifting Badge Discussion [Merged Threads]

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Comments

  • SummonerNRSummonerNR Posts: 9,171 Guardian
    Any return of temporary gifting in December, or other special times, will probably be limited to gifting those Red Tickets, etc, that would be part of whatever special occasion. I don't think it would be opened back up to all the items that had been part of the problem with gifting.
  • Smodom1988Smodom1988 Posts: 1
    This is absolute trash. The reason they aren’t just punishing certain people is because the people that are going about it the wrong way are the whales. They ban then they cut their own throat with all the money they bring in. If you want to take away the gifting badge so be it but since 30 dollars was required to get it then compensation should be at least 30 dollars worth. Not a 10 dollar unit offer.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 17,121 Guardian
    liquidkarma said:

    @DNA3000 , this is why I for one am currently writing a ticket with the Better Business Bureau.
    They may be within their legal confines to absolve us of gifting privileges due to the widespread plague in America and the world of "Legalese" and Rich People Thinking,
    but we live in a democracy g-dam-mit,
    and have a right to express when we feel wronged.
    i do not expect my money back but I do not think actions such as these should just be accepted as The Way of the World. Capitalism and the Legal System are the Ways of the World, but that doesn't mean they are without flaws.

    You are certainly entitled to do so, and I'm not arguing against anyone expressing displeasure. In this case, however, I'm not particularly displeased, and I don't consider this a legal technicality. This is a right I don't just think online game companies have legally, it is a right I want them to have to address problems in the game. This is a right I would gladly give them if they didn't already have it.

    I'm not particularly happy about it in the sense that I'm almost exclusively a gifter, and not a giftee: I try to help out alliance mates when I can and when I think it will do the most good, and this eliminates that possibility. But if it is necessary to address fraud and cheating, I'd be the one to pull the plug myself. And having some experience with the kinds of fraud that can exist in a game with microtransactions and trading or gifting, I know that sometimes this is the only practical step that can be taken. I've seen it happen before, and I know I will see it again.

    In *any* legal and economic system, I'd expect online game operators to have this option.
  • ValledelkasValledelkas Posts: 3 ★
    300 runas it’s one of the biggest scams that I can remenber in these nearly four years. I’m pretty sure that Kb thinks we’re absolutely stupid, cause if not I can’t understand this decision.
    I don’t know if anyone has committed any fraud, but it’s hundred percent sure that I feel I’m being swindled and we can’t do anything or yes. Don’t spend your money, Kabam change the rules when they want.
    Sorry if i had grammatic mistakes, english is not my mother tongue, but I’m sure every one understand my annoyance.
    Thanks
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 599 ★★★
    Demonzfyre said:

    DukeZman said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    OMC_Pinto said:

    I would like to see Kabam comment on the factors for determining that 300 units was the ideal amount? People who have used the gifting badge after purchase prob spent more units sending items to teammates that they wouldnt have normally spent without the badge. Obviously quantifying an exact unit amount would be a large undertaking but I would have expected the number to be closer to the minimum units provided for purchasing (850 in the $29.99 package).

    It's pretty hard to decide what the value of any given thing is to everybody. Technically, the Gifting Badge had no value, as it was a free add on to a Unit Pack that contained 850 Units, but that doesn't mean that it had no value to everybody, as some may have purchased the package just for that and not the units.
    Lazy answer. It may have been a "free add on" but tons of people like me ONLY spent the $30 on units because we wanted the gifting function. The Units to me were the "free add on" as they had zero determining factor on my $30 purchase. Be honest. People were buying the gifting badge and taking the units only because they came with it.
    Are you going to have them reverse the purchases made with the 850 units as well and any other domino effect actions taken because of what you purchased? You used the 850 units did you not? You got what you paid for. End of story. It's really not that hard to understand. The badge was free. The units cost $29.99.
    The badge was not free. The badge cost $30. Simple as that. People would not have bought the offer had the badge not been in it. This is the only way to get the badge. The only way to get the badge was to pay $30. The badge cost $30.
  • PaddoPaddo Posts: 90 ★
    After the inbox message I received, with the attached 300 units, and after a quick reading of this thread, I still have 2 questions. They are possibly already answered, but I couldn't find it.

    1. Are there plans to return gifting to the game when there is a safe way to do so?
    2. Is it possible to just give back the 850 + 300 units (Remove it from my account) and just get back the actual money? Or is this something I should take up with Google play services?
  • Jridenhour_3Jridenhour_3 Posts: 347 ★★
    Paddo said:

    After the inbox message I received, with the attached 300 units, and after a quick reading of this thread, I still have 2 questions. They are possibly already answered, but I couldn't find it.

    1. Are there plans to return gifting to the game when there is a safe way to do so?
    2. Is it possible to just give back the 850 + 300 units (Remove it from my account) and just get back the actual money? Or is this something I should take up with Google play services?

    I tried thru google services. They said had to go thru kabaam for refund which I highly doubt is gonna happen @Paddo
  • StarhawkStarhawk Posts: 537 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Starhawk said:

    This reminds me of a similar situation that led to a successfull class action lawsuit against Sony years ago.
    The original PS3 came with a feature most people didn't use (OtherOS) which was eventually taken away in a firmware update to combat piracy. Eventually this led to a class action lawsuit against Sony for taking away a feature that was advertised at the time of purchase for a lot of people whether they used it or not. I see a lot of parallels here. 300 Units is a joke of a compensation for this but no matter the amount given someone will feel it isn't enough.

    I went back and reread the appellate court ruling on this issue just to refresh my memory. This class action lawsuit was initially dismissed in court, but the Ninth Circuit overturned some of the elements of that dismissal which allowed that case to proceed. It is important to note which rulings were affirmed and which were overturned. The court ruled that the district court correctly dismissed all claims having to do with warranty, implied fitness of purpose, intent to defraud, and computer fraud. They reversed on a few claims having to do with false advertising and related claims. The court ruled that because Sony explicitly advertised the PS3 as being able to run other operating systems, and because people relied on that claim and paid more than they needed to in order to specifically buy the versions of the PS3 that had this functionality, they could state both a claim of being misled and proper damages due to that issue.

    It is also worth noting that both parties decided to settle this case out of court rather than continue the process, and members of the class receive settlements consistent with the costs of buying the "fat" PS3. There was no final ruling in this case.

    It is extremely unlikely in my opinion that you could make any of the claims which survived dismissal under the same legal grounds that the Sony case did.
    Thank you. honestly I wouldnt have the time to partake in it I just saw some similarities. I would prefer if Kabam spent their energy (no pun intended) on increasing maximum energy from 70 to 80. It used to be that you could git yourself energy without issues to help counter the crazy energy requirements for monthly quests (which Kabam had said was ok previously) and now you can't do that anymore. At least in my case this would help counter this somewhat.
  • Fred_JoeityFred_Joeity Posts: 1,168 ★★★
    Are people still claiming that the badge costs $30? No matter how much you say it, it’s still not true. It’s legal value is and always will be $0, no matter how much you personally value it. Besides, it’s not like kabam isn’t trying to fix the issue. Seriously people, think before taking out the pitchforks please
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 34,856 ★★★★★
    edited March 2019
    boss6390 said:

    They do realize that this could easily result in a lawsuit as it is technically illegal? I paid real money. Kabam took the money and I do not have what I paid for. Illegal.
    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Zibiit @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Porthos

    You agreed to Terms of Sevice, both in playing, and making purchases. You do not purchase anything for ownership. The game, your Account, and the contents therein, remain property of Kabam. You pay for the lease to use their product. They reserve the right to make any and all changes necessary for the well-being of that product. That includes things like disabling a Feature that has been used to exploit Resources and commit Fraudulent Behavior outside of the game. I can assure you, it is not illegal. Those Terms of Service are the Legally-Binding Contract that the game operates under.
    Fact is, they provided a service for which we received the Units sold therein, as well as a Gifting Badge as a Bonus Item. People had use of it right up until said Fraud occurred, and they gave 300 Units to make up for the fact that they had to disable it. That equates to 1150 Units for the price of 850, plus the added benefit of all the use people got from the Badge. I'm not sure how it's unclear how this was necessary. People were being stolen from and taken advantage of.
    It is not possible to go back and take the 850 Units back, and refund the money. Firstly because they state very clearly that money will not berrefunded on purchases. That's part of that TOS Agreement. Secondly, because it's virtually impossible to take back Units from every Account, retrace all playment methods, arrange Refunds, and reverse all transactions made with the Badge. That's taking an already-precarious and damaging situation and turning it into a never-ending list of work and possible complications. What they are saying is, the Badge is worth 300 Units. Which we got, on top of the Units we used and all that we used the Badge for. Sorry to break it to you, but it's very much legal.
  • liquidkarmaliquidkarma Posts: 80 ★
    @DNA3000 i agree with you, and just to clarify, at this point my main beef is that 300 units were offered as compensation. when i think it just makes sense in the way that we often try to be good neighbors or friends to those in our life, that 850 units back just makes more sense. It is the discrepancy that upsets me. I am not an anarchist so I certainly think they should have some say in their product. This is why I will be going the route of the BBB instead of something far-fetched like a class action lawsuit. I just think people have a right to know about a company's actions. Judging by the overwhelming amount of people saying the same thing, 850 versus 300, in this thread, i think most people would assume that 850 units would be returned. People who may have not started playing this game would probably like to know something like this. Of course, whether or not anyone is out there looking up apps on the BBB before they install them (unlikely i admit), it is the principle, for me. Probably for a few others in this thread as well.
    Personally for me as well, it is my attempt to hold Kabam *accountable.* I think a good business has a right to control their product, but i think a good business should respect their customers for placing their faith in that business in the first place, by repaying them in kind, or units in this case, when they make a change like this. many have already expressed their view that the badge was a bonus for the units, but in my eyes the units were a bonus for the badge. i think that part is subjective. or is it objective, i never know. anyway.
  • liquidkarmaliquidkarma Posts: 80 ★
    @GroundedWisdom you make an interesting point, but if the takeaway is that the badge was worth 300 units, shouldn't it then have been available to purchase for 300 units, not for a minimum$29.99/850 units/however anyone wants to look at it?
  • HappyJumpingBeanHappyJumpingBean Posts: 3 ★
    DNA3000 said:

    lockitup11 said:

    It makes perfect sense to give 300 units when I spent $30, can't wait to convert my units into the money I spent. Wait, you can't. Thank you Kabam, you aren't even sending the 850 units to us for the amount of money we spent. Another thing that makes me want to quit the game. When will it end.

    I'm going to respond to this one as a proxy for all of them. You *got* those units when you spent that money. Now you're asking for those units *again*. It doesn't matter if you spent X dollars "because" you wanted the badge. You don't get to buy the badge. You only got to receive the badge as a bonus on top of the unit purchase. The 300 units is *not* in lieu of a refund for cash, because you got the units for that cash. It is a compromise compensation for the loss of the badge, because the badge has no actual value.

    You don't get to tell Kabam or any other company that adds a free item on top of a purchase that you didn't actually buy the purchase, you bought the free item and you demand rights associated with that. They get to decide what costs money and what doesn't, and you only get to decide whether to buy those things or not. You don't get to dictate to any business what they are actually selling and under what conditions.

    I swear I'm not making this up. I was waiting in line at an office for my cable company, and I overheard a customer arguing with the service person there for about half an hour. They were trying to return a cable tuner and get a refund on their account. The problem was that they had received that tuner as part of a add one get one free offer. They were trying to return the one that cost money and keep the free one. They refused to accept the fact that they couldn't return the paid one and keep the free one, because as far as they were concerned if they returned the one that cost money they should get those charges terminated. The free one had nothing to do with it.

    This is kind of like that, only sillier.
    Yes, they decided, and they decided POORLY. Their compensation isn't fair, isn't anything. Especially when said 'free' item was used to entice people to purchase the
    Wakandas_Finest said:

    REiiGN15 said:

    You need to give people who bought that badge the full equal amount of units. That's just terrible and you're basically telling ppl to not buy anything like that again from Kabam.

    Why can't people understand that you got the units when you got the badge. The offer has always been for the units not the badge. The badge was a free add on. It does not matter if you bought the offer just for the badge. That was your choice it doesn't change the fact that the offer was for the units
    Because the 'Free' badge was used to get people to purchase.

    Have you read how many people have said 'I only bought it for the badge?"

    Yes, I got units and I used them - but what I wanted was the badge and the badge is going away... and kabam is saying 'we're going to give you something that costs us nothing' as compensation', and the compensation is not equal to the value we associate with the badge.

    Using your argument, someone is having a sale - buy 100 coconuts get a free car! And then they take the car back. I got my 100 coconuts... the car was free anywah, so it's all good right? No. it's not, it's called bait and switch. It's sleazy and that's why people are miffed. And let's face it punishing the many for the crimes of the few, has always ticked off the many.
  • Meynot1967usaMeynot1967usa Posts: 3
    I know Kabam is in the business to make money but I do not play this game to lose it....reasonable compensation!! $9.99 will get me 275 units but $$30.00 only got me 300?
    Not even to bringing up the breach of contract issues.
    Punish the violators not the masses. Been palying for 31/2 yrs. But I will split in a heartbeat before I will take a screwing.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 34,856 ★★★★★
    liquidkarma said:

    @GroundedWisdom you make an interesting point, but if the takeaway is that the badge was worth 300 units, shouldn't it then have been available to purchase for 300 units, not for a minimum$29.99/850 units/however anyone wants to look at it?

    Actually, the value of the Badge was nothing in that sense. That's the standard price of the Units.
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 2,061 ★★★★★
    edited March 2019
    Meynot1967usa said:

    I know Kabam is in the business to make money but I do not play this game to lose it....reasonable compensation!! $9.99 will get me 275 units but $$30.00 only got me 300?
    Not even to bringing up the breach of contract issues.
    Punish the violators not the masses. Been palying for 31/2 yrs. But I will split in a heartbeat before I will take a screwing.

    $30 got you 1150 units. And all the benefits of using the gifting badge up until today.
  • SladeMaverickSladeMaverick Posts: 28 ★
    I’m with everyone else that thinks 300 units is sad. We paid 30 dollars to receive 850 units and the gifting badge. Had the badge been a peter Parker’s wallet, I would expect 135 units and not a unit more. At least give us back what it was worth, and @Kabam Miike you know it was worth 30 dollars. Pretty poor move on Kabams part as usual. It sucks we can send to our ally at least, that could affect whether an alliance wins or loses. Will be interested to see what else comes of this.
  • ggFyreggFyre Posts: 12
    300 units is less than 1/2 the value paid for the gifting badge in real dollar terms.

    You need to do better Kabam. Much better.

    Realistically, I am not expecting real money back but I do expect fair value. This isn't like selling a car and it losing value due to wear and tear. This is a digital product. Same in, same out as far as I am concerned.

    The fact you will continue to have temp gifting during the year makes a mockery of your decision to cancel it.

    Although there are cheaters and scumbags abusing a system, there are thousands that aren't and you are punishing them twofold by taking away the badge and then giving them less than fair value for the inconvenience.

    Lift your game. This is how you lose players.
  • ValledelkasValledelkas Posts: 3 ★
    I feel cheated, swindled, scammed, bilked, Choose one
  • Maximus_SpankersonMaximus_Spankerson Posts: 445 ★★
    It was indeed a while ago, but I made the $30 purchase just for the gifting batch when joining my first “serious” alliance. That purchase must be reversed with real currency.
  • PaddoPaddo Posts: 90 ★
    liquidkarma said:

    @DNA3000 i agree with you, and just to clarify, at this point my main beef is that 300 units were offered as compensation. when i think it just makes sense in the way that we often try to be good neighbors or friends to those in our life, that 850 units back just makes more sense. It is the discrepancy that upsets me. I am not an anarchist so I certainly think they should have some say in their product. This is why I will be going the route of the BBB instead of something far-fetched like a class action lawsuit. I just think people have a right to know about a company's actions. Judging by the overwhelming amount of people saying the same thing, 850 versus 300, in this thread, i think most people would assume that 850 units would be returned. People who may have not started playing this game would probably like to know something like this. Of course, whether or not anyone is out there looking up apps on the BBB before they install them (unlikely i admit), it is the principle, for me. Probably for a few others in this thread as well.
    Personally for me as well, it is my attempt to hold Kabam *accountable.* I think a good business has a right to control their product, but i think a good business should respect their customers for placing their faith in that business in the first place, by repaying them in kind, or units in this case, when they make a change like this. many have already expressed their view that the badge was a bonus for the units, but in my eyes the units were a bonus for the badge. i think that part is subjective. or is it objective, i never know. anyway.

    Maybe it's not possible to just take 850 out of every account, but I would like it if I'd get the option to give back my 850 + 300 units and in return receive the 30 dollars I spend. I understand it's hard to put a price on the gifting badge. To me, 850 units is in no way worth 30 dollars of my actual money.

    Giving the option to return units for your money seems fair, no?
  • liquidkarmaliquidkarma Posts: 80 ★
    edited March 2019
    i think most of us are knowingly employing a cognitive dissonance by assuming we own the characters we have opened from crystals. no one wants to think about how we are leasing things. existence is an illusion, but ignorance is bliss. if i was thinking of myself as leasing the game, i would be less inclined to progress. i wouldn't repair everything in a person's house i was staying at unless they were being parTICularly benevolent or i was worried about being burdensome for some reason.
    this game and others like it are luxury items for many in a humdrum existence of the rat race. to think we are only leasing it is a bit of an insult to injury. i'd like to at least pretend these characters are mine until the next y2k, because then i will be able to forget about it in lieu of wondering which walgreens i can still loot for some cans of soup or condensed milk.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 34,856 ★★★★★
    I think it's important for everyone to know the TOS when making purchases. Most don't stop to read them.
  • loader187loader187 Posts: 222 ★★
    ggFyre said:

    300 units is less than 1/2 the value paid for the gifting badge in real dollar terms.

    You need to do better Kabam. Much better.

    Realistically, I am not expecting real money back but I do expect fair value. This isn't like selling a car and it losing value due to wear and tear. This is a digital product. Same in, same out as far as I am concerned.

    The fact you will continue to have temp gifting during the year makes a mockery of your decision to cancel it.

    Although there are cheaters and scumbags abusing a system, there are thousands that aren't and you are punishing them twofold by taking away the badge and then giving them less than fair value for the inconvenience.

    Lift your game. This is how you lose players.

    Already gone after this war. This was the last straw.
  • PlantesanPlantesan Posts: 332 ★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    liquidkarma said:

    @GroundedWisdom you make an interesting point, but if the takeaway is that the badge was worth 300 units, shouldn't it then have been available to purchase for 300 units, not for a minimum$29.99/850 units/however anyone wants to look at it?

    Actually, the value of the Badge was nothing in that sense. That's the standard price of the Units.
    Y’know what, let them have their way, let the whales pig out and drop whatever money they have and have us f2p-ish hope kabam closes up shop the next day on them.

    I know you previously said you were annoyed by their decision, but c’mon...the-unit-deal-was-the-only-way-to-get-the-baaaaaadge. That within itself gives the badge value, otherwise I’m sure most of the people here wouldn’t have bought the deal.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 34,856 ★★★★★
    Plantesan said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    liquidkarma said:

    @GroundedWisdom you make an interesting point, but if the takeaway is that the badge was worth 300 units, shouldn't it then have been available to purchase for 300 units, not for a minimum$29.99/850 units/however anyone wants to look at it?

    Actually, the value of the Badge was nothing in that sense. That's the standard price of the Units.
    Y’know what, let them have their way, let the whales pig out and drop whatever money they have and have us f2p-ish hope kabam closes up shop the next day on them.

    I know you previously said you were annoyed by their decision, but c’mon...the-unit-deal-was-the-only-way-to-get-the-baaaaaadge. That within itself gives the badge value, otherwise I’m sure most of the people here wouldn’t have bought the deal.
    I wouldn't say I was annoyed. I'm disappointed because I used to send and give Revs between Ally mates now and then. However, I know that the more important issue is people being stolen from. Fraud is no joke. My larger concern is for those who were the victims of this.
This discussion has been closed.