Problem with Human Torch

Here is my problem with Torch.

An entire class of champions is terrible against him. Not just one or two champs, but an entire class. You can’t even use a Mystic against him in the latter parts of the Master event quest, and forget using one against him in UC or Epic difficulties of Negative Zone quests.

It all just seems too OP if you ask me. No other champ out there negates an entire class like he does at these levels.

Secondly, it doesn’t even make sense. Energy based attacks make sense, but not all Mystic Champion attacks deal energy damage. The vast majority don’t.

It’s just a poor mechanic and it unbalanced the game further. Mystic champions already are becoming less and less relevant and now this.

Comments

  • Mathking13Mathking13 Posts: 308
    MSRDLD said:

    Here is my problem with Torch.

    An entire class of champions is terrible against him. Not just one or two champs, but an entire class. You can’t even use a Mystic against him in the latter parts of the Master event quest, and forget using one against him in UC or Epic difficulties of Negative Zone quests.

    It all just seems too OP if you ask me. No other champ out there negates an entire class like he does at these levels..

    *cough* Domino *cough* *cough* Sentinel *cough*
    MSRDLD said:

    It’s just a poor mechanic and it unbalanced the game further. Mystic champions already are becoming less and less relevant and now this.

    well you can still use mystic champions against most of the other champions in the game. And you're gonna have a bad time in the FIRST QUEST of 5.3 if you don't have at least a couple of good mystic champs... screw 5.3...

    And Annihilus dies so quick against Mystic champions and their Nullify abilities. Sure, not so much the one in the EQ, but that's just because of Mystic Conditioning. Seriously. Imagine if mystic conditioning wasn't there; Sym Supreme would be so good against him...
  • LormifLormif Posts: 1,206
    MSRDLD said:

    Here is my problem with Torch.

    An entire class of champions is terrible against him. Not just one or two champs, but an entire class. You can’t even use a Mystic against him in the latter parts of the Master event quest, and forget using one against him in UC or Epic difficulties of Negative Zone quests.

    It all just seems too OP if you ask me. No other champ out there negates an entire class like he does at these levels.

    Secondly, it doesn’t even make sense. Energy based attacks make sense, but not all Mystic Champion attacks deal energy damage. The vast majority don’t.

    It’s just a poor mechanic and it unbalanced the game further. Mystic champions already are becoming less and less relevant and now this.

    So your issue is that a class that is litterally described as being at a disadvantage against him, is actually at a disadvantage against him?

    Mephisto, GR, Sym Supreme, magik, just to name a few, they are not becoming less relevant, definitely not less so because you cannot easily attack at class disadvantage, note it does not help him when he is attacking, only when he is defending so you can generally see where it is coming from.
  • Arbiter2426Arbiter2426 Posts: 335

    MSRDLD said:

    Here is my problem with Torch.

    An entire class of champions is terrible against him. Not just one or two champs, but an entire class. You can’t even use a Mystic against him in the latter parts of the Master event quest, and forget using one against him in UC or Epic difficulties of Negative Zone quests.

    It all just seems too OP if you ask me. No other champ out there negates an entire class like he does at these levels..

    *cough* Domino *cough* *cough* Sentinel *cough*
    MSRDLD said:

    It’s just a poor mechanic and it unbalanced the game further. Mystic champions already are becoming less and less relevant and now this.

    well you can still use mystic champions against most of the other champions in the game. And you're gonna have a bad time in the FIRST QUEST of 5.3 if you don't have at least a couple of good mystic champs... screw 5.3...

    And Annihilus dies so quick against Mystic champions and their Nullify abilities. Sure, not so much the one in the EQ, but that's just because of Mystic Conditioning. Seriously. Imagine if mystic conditioning wasn't there; Sym Supreme would be so good against him...
    Dude I just brought in gwenpool for 5.3 (she was my best 5( at the time with no mystic 5* champs other than loki) but yeah 5.3 was slow
  • SlyCat42SlyCat42 Posts: 500
    If it helps I used Bishop and Kingpin against him. Bishop is a hard counter because he takes practically no damage from incinerate and then it rapidly stacks his prowess charges.

    Kingpin is a bit more straight forward, he simply converts the incinerate debuffs into Rage and he has class advantage. Then you just slap Torch with the special 1 and he also has reduced defensive ability accuracy, and then you just brawl until he dies.

    But yeah I understand that having another champion with unavoidable damage is kind of annoying.
  • Drooped2Drooped2 Posts: 3,000

    MSRDLD said:

    Here is my problem with Torch.

    An entire class of champions is terrible against him. Not just one or two champs, but an entire class. You can’t even use a Mystic against him in the latter parts of the Master event quest, and forget using one against him in UC or Epic difficulties of Negative Zone quests.

    It all just seems too OP if you ask me. No other champ out there negates an entire class like he does at these levels..

    *cough* Domino *cough* *cough* Sentinel *cough*
    MSRDLD said:

    It’s just a poor mechanic and it unbalanced the game further. Mystic champions already are becoming less and less relevant and now this.

    well you can still use mystic champions against most of the other champions in the game. And you're gonna have a bad time in the FIRST QUEST of 5.3 if you don't have at least a couple of good mystic champs... screw 5.3...

    And Annihilus dies so quick against Mystic champions and their Nullify abilities. Sure, not so much the one in the EQ, but that's just because of Mystic Conditioning. Seriously. Imagine if mystic conditioning wasn't there; Sym Supreme would be so good against him...
    Hey now domino doesnt negate an entire class she negates like 5 entire classes.

    A better comparision would be blade negating mystics

  • Mathking13Mathking13 Posts: 308
    Drooped2 said:

    MSRDLD said:

    Here is my problem with Torch.

    An entire class of champions is terrible against him. Not just one or two champs, but an entire class. You can’t even use a Mystic against him in the latter parts of the Master event quest, and forget using one against him in UC or Epic difficulties of Negative Zone quests.

    It all just seems too OP if you ask me. No other champ out there negates an entire class like he does at these levels..

    *cough* Domino *cough* *cough* Sentinel *cough*
    MSRDLD said:

    It’s just a poor mechanic and it unbalanced the game further. Mystic champions already are becoming less and less relevant and now this.

    well you can still use mystic champions against most of the other champions in the game. And you're gonna have a bad time in the FIRST QUEST of 5.3 if you don't have at least a couple of good mystic champs... screw 5.3...

    And Annihilus dies so quick against Mystic champions and their Nullify abilities. Sure, not so much the one in the EQ, but that's just because of Mystic Conditioning. Seriously. Imagine if mystic conditioning wasn't there; Sym Supreme would be so good against him...
    Hey now domino doesnt negate an entire class she negates like 5 entire classes.

    A better comparision would be blade negating mystics

    I was thinking more in the context of that Torch is not the first champion that has a greater focus on bringing in the right class outside of attack modification based off of class relationships. With Skill champs, Domino's always gonna make them Unlucky, but Tech champions will never have to deal with that.
    Similar with Torch. If you bring mystic champs, he's gonna gain heaps of Smoulder Passives. But if you bring a skill champ, you're usually gonna be able to bleed them (yes not all skill champs can bleed, but most of them do) which reduces the duration of his incinerate if you do get hit.
    And then you have Sentinel. Bring in a mutant, and you're gonna have a bad time. 8 analysis charges if you repeat the same movement more than once, and 40 if he's awakened and you're spamming the same special repeatedly. But if you bring a cosmic champion, they're gonna take 4x as long to get to max analysis.

    There are a ton of champions where bringing in different classes have a different effect on the battle. And it's a nice feature imo. Yeah sure sometimes it sucks, like how you can't Slow skill champs with she-hulk, but it is what it is, and one can play around it if they play with different champions. And I like that aspect of the game. (Despite the fact that I can't seem to get a good tech champion to save my life)
  • NikskiniNikskini Posts: 237
    They need to rework on some champs immunities like Dormammu and Ghost rider immune to incinerate and frostibite
  • RiderofHellRiderofHell Posts: 1,163
    Techincally if you use mephisto dont spam specials at all...iceman only use sp2...RH is good option clearly
  • EakomoEakomo Posts: 31
    i use mephisto a lot with ss and against torch that just makes things worse
  • SoulreaverasSoulreaveras Posts: 63
    edited April 9
    I just hate the fact that you can get incinerates even through blocking. He heavies pretty fast so you reflex block that and Bam, incinerates galore.
  • MSRDLD said:

    Here is my problem with Torch.

    An entire class of champions is terrible against him. Not just one or two champs, but an entire class. You can’t even use a Mystic against him in the latter parts of the Master event quest, and forget using one against him in UC or Epic difficulties of Negative Zone quests.

    It all just seems too OP if you ask me. No other champ out there negates an entire class like he does at these levels.

    Secondly, it doesn’t even make sense. Energy based attacks make sense, but not all Mystic Champion attacks deal energy damage. The vast majority don’t.

    It’s just a poor mechanic and it unbalanced the game further. Mystic champions already are becoming less and less relevant and now this.

    There are a ton of counters to HT. I find him easy. Cap IW, Black Widow, Havok, Domino, Emma, Iceman, Bishop, KP, even Stark Spidey.
  • MSRDLDMSRDLD Posts: 600
    To be clear, never said there weren’t counters to him. Just said that Mystics are a disaster against him. If I bring a skill into fight Domino, I can still beat her if I play carefully. Same with a Mutant and a Sentinel. It sucks, but it can be done. There is no way around hitting this dude when you’re a Mystic.
  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Posts: 1,821
    edited April 9
    MSRDLD said:

    To be clear, never said there weren’t counters to him. Just said that Mystics are a disaster against him. If I bring a skill into fight Domino, I can still beat her if I play carefully. Same with a Mutant and a Sentinel. It sucks, but it can be done. There is no way around hitting this dude when you’re a Mystic.

    Well it is called a disadvantage for a reason haha. Besides, yeah you can potentially use a mutant against sentinel or a skill against domino, but you will definitely choose any other alternative in order to avoid the disadvantage, why should human torch vs mystics be different? Not like you would purposefully use a mystic champ vs a science champ to begin with right?
  • MSRDLDMSRDLD Posts: 600

    MSRDLD said:

    To be clear, never said there weren’t counters to him. Just said that Mystics are a disaster against him. If I bring a skill into fight Domino, I can still beat her if I play carefully. Same with a Mutant and a Sentinel. It sucks, but it can be done. There is no way around hitting this dude when you’re a Mystic.

    Well it is called a disadvantage for a reason haha. Besides, yeah you can potentially use a mutant against sentinel or a skill against domino, but you will definitely choose any other alternative in order to avoid the disadvantage, why should human torch vs mystics be different? Not like you would purposefully use a mystic champ vs a science champ to begin with right?
    In certain situations you gotta do what you gotta do, in arena or war, and going into a class disadvantage isn’t always a death sentence. Until now.
  • ScribeScribe Posts: 5
    edited April 9
    Just push to sp2 and evade it over and over, it's a gimp easy fight.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 1,206
    MSRDLD said:

    MSRDLD said:

    To be clear, never said there weren’t counters to him. Just said that Mystics are a disaster against him. If I bring a skill into fight Domino, I can still beat her if I play carefully. Same with a Mutant and a Sentinel. It sucks, but it can be done. There is no way around hitting this dude when you’re a Mystic.

    Well it is called a disadvantage for a reason haha. Besides, yeah you can potentially use a mutant against sentinel or a skill against domino, but you will definitely choose any other alternative in order to avoid the disadvantage, why should human torch vs mystics be different? Not like you would purposefully use a mystic champ vs a science champ to begin with right?
    In certain situations you gotta do what you gotta do, in arena or war, and going into a class disadvantage isn’t always a death sentence. Until now.
    how many people run triple mystic champ team offense in AW?
  • MSRDLDMSRDLD Posts: 600
    Lormif said:

    MSRDLD said:

    MSRDLD said:

    To be clear, never said there weren’t counters to him. Just said that Mystics are a disaster against him. If I bring a skill into fight Domino, I can still beat her if I play carefully. Same with a Mutant and a Sentinel. It sucks, but it can be done. There is no way around hitting this dude when you’re a Mystic.

    Well it is called a disadvantage for a reason haha. Besides, yeah you can potentially use a mutant against sentinel or a skill against domino, but you will definitely choose any other alternative in order to avoid the disadvantage, why should human torch vs mystics be different? Not like you would purposefully use a mystic champ vs a science champ to begin with right?
    In certain situations you gotta do what you gotta do, in arena or war, and going into a class disadvantage isn’t always a death sentence. Until now.
    how many people run triple mystic champ team offense in AW?
    Say you have SS or some other Mystic and two others that are not Mystic. They die and you only have your Mystic left with an upcoming science node. Telling me you wouldn’t be tempted to take on that science node with your SS or other Mystic instead of spending a bunch to revive and heal your other champs? It could just be a Sentry or MODOK in there, you don’t know. With Torch now a possibility, you can’t take that risk.
  • VoltolosVoltolos Posts: 545
    MSRDLD said:

    Lormif said:

    MSRDLD said:

    MSRDLD said:

    To be clear, never said there weren’t counters to him. Just said that Mystics are a disaster against him. If I bring a skill into fight Domino, I can still beat her if I play carefully. Same with a Mutant and a Sentinel. It sucks, but it can be done. There is no way around hitting this dude when you’re a Mystic.

    Well it is called a disadvantage for a reason haha. Besides, yeah you can potentially use a mutant against sentinel or a skill against domino, but you will definitely choose any other alternative in order to avoid the disadvantage, why should human torch vs mystics be different? Not like you would purposefully use a mystic champ vs a science champ to begin with right?
    In certain situations you gotta do what you gotta do, in arena or war, and going into a class disadvantage isn’t always a death sentence. Until now.
    how many people run triple mystic champ team offense in AW?
    Say you have SS or some other Mystic and two others that are not Mystic. They die and you only have your Mystic left with an upcoming science node. Telling me you wouldn’t be tempted to take on that science node with your SS or other Mystic instead of spending a bunch to revive and heal your other champs? It could just be a Sentry or MODOK in there, you don’t know. With Torch now a possibility, you can’t take that risk.
    HT starts with one persistent charge. No other science champ does that so you can easily recognise him
  • Mitchell35Mitchell35 Posts: 1,799
    Human torch on role reversal all classes but mystic -50% attack node boss coming soon!
  • MSRDLDMSRDLD Posts: 600

    Human torch on role reversal all classes but mystic -50% attack node boss coming soon!

    That’s gonna be fun :-/
  • LaserjungeLaserjunge Posts: 26
    I defeated him more than 20 times now, including 10 times in the negative zone. My best champ was my 4/45 Daredevil. However, I still hate him an his animations are so huge, I mean his moves have an insane range, and the incinerate chances are much too high. In the current version he is overpowered.

    And now it‘s time for the people who insist to learn to evade 4(!) differently timed shots (i.e., his SP1) approximately 20 times during one fight in a bugged (maximally lagged) game. Yeah, thanks for that.
  • Marri_2Marri_2 Posts: 316

    I defeated him more than 20 times now, including 10 times in the negative zone. My best champ was my 4/45 Daredevil. However, I still hate him an his animations are so huge, I mean his moves have an insane range, and the incinerate chances are much too high. In the current version he is overpowered.

    And now it‘s time for the people who insist to learn to evade 4(!) differently timed shots (i.e., his SP1) approximately 20 times during one fight in a bugged (maximally lagged) game. Yeah, thanks for that.

    That SP1 is easy to evade. Haven't been touched by even 1 since the day he was introduced.
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