Class and Rarity Gates - Discussion Thread

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  • Spurgeo14Spurgeo14 Posts: 1,145 ★★★

    (Sorry if I gave someone a brain hemorrhage with that ^^^, didn’t mean to sound confusing 😂)

    I think you are 100% correct! @May_The_Way
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,148 ★★★★★
    edited May 17
    PP85 said:

    with 13 pages of comments here, forgive me if i've missed this question being asked/answered previously. but with the requirements designed to make the gated paths easier, how does this work with the 4 x 6* gates? and indeed 6* gates in general

    Just need 4 6*'s. 5th can be a 5*. No class restrictions.
  • Gambl0rGambl0r Posts: 139
    edited May 17
    4 gates, and the 4th one requires 4 six star champs? wth? You say you're introducing these gates to diversify the use of various champions, but it's really quite the opposite, forcing us to use a very limited choice of champions, which of course will induce more spending on revives/potions/boosts.

    If you really wanted the expanded use of all the characters in the game, the gates would be specific character(s) based, instead 6-star restricted. Tie that together with the 4-star ban in Act 6, this is an obvious ploy to induce buying Cavalier Crystals, period. There is no other way to gain a respectable 6-star roster. Act 5 gives you half a 6-star crystal (one-time), the monthly event gives you 25% of one, and duping a 5-star gives you 2.75% of one. Do you know how long it takes just to grind out 10k 6-star shards?

    Don't be surprised if Chapter 4 is completely restricted to 6 star champs. It's officially pay to play. Whales now have a significant advantage and a shortcut for faster progression in the game via Cavalier crystals

    After a complete failure this month, in which should've been the biggest event in MCOC history, more disappointment.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,148 ★★★★★
    Gambl0r said:

    4 gates, and the 4th one requires 4 six star champs? wth? You say you're introducing these gates to diversify the use of various champions, but it's really quite the opposite, forcing us to use a very limited choice of champions, which of course will induce more spending on revives/potions/boosts.

    If you really wanted the expanded use of all the characters in the game, the gates would be specific character(s) based, instead 6-star restricted. Tie that together with the 4-star ban in Act 6, this is an obvious ploy to induce buying Cavalier Crystals, period. There is no other way to gain a respectable 6-star roster. Act 5 gives you half a 6-star crystal (one-time), the monthly event gives you 25% of one, and duping a 5-star gives you 2.75% of one. Do you know how long it takes just to grind out 10k 6-star shards?

    Don't be surprised if Chapter 4 is completely restricted to 6 star champs. It's officially pay to play. Whales now have a significant advantage and a shortcut for faster progression in the game via Cavalier crystals

    After a complete failure this month, in which should've been the biggest event in MCOC history, more disappointment.

    Its 6 out 60 paths. You'll be ok.
  • PP85PP85 Posts: 5

    PP85 said:

    with 13 pages of comments here, forgive me if i've missed this question being asked/answered previously. but with the requirements designed to make the gated paths easier, how does this work with the 4 x 6* gates? and indeed 6* gates in general

    Just need 4 6*'s. 5th can be a 5*. No class restrictions.
    this wasn't my question. they state that meeting the desired gate requirements should make the path easier. i.e. probably class advantage with the class restrictions, but i don't see how this will work with rarity restrictions.
  • PP85PP85 Posts: 5
    edited May 17
    re-read, i see this is just for class restrictions. so, never mind
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★
    edited May 17

    DNA3000 said:

    heirDEZ said:

    Where do these guys get off? And what brand of crack ya smoking .. lemme guess my credit card info lmao absurd

    What I find most absurd is the notion that Kabam is only trying to get everyone's money, and their strategy for doing this is to make a free game, make 99.99% of everything achievable without spending, and offering extremely little value for cash purchases most of the time. And this is what I'm supposed to believe is evidence that a company is trying as hard as possible to get as much of my money as possible.

    A company trying to make as much money as possible would making nothing free
    If you factored in a real-world variable like addiction your argument falls apart.
    If you're implying that the game is playing off peoples' Addictions, you're not only wrong about their intentions, you seem to have very little understanding on Addiction itself.
    Wrong.
    Disagree. The game has elements of chance. That doesn't mean they're playing on Addictions. Also important to make the distinction that an Addict cannot stop. People who are not Addicts overdo it all the time. They make poor choices, get carried away, spend too much just like anyone can. The difference is they learn from their consequences eventually. An Addict who is active literally can't stop. There is a huge difference.
    The game does not make people spend. The choice is there. Just like people are responsible for finding their own funds to purchase, they're also responsible for their own issues and safety. Every City I can think of has a Bar. Some people drink responsibly and some are Alcoholics. The Bar isn't any more responsible than the game is here. Most people spend responsibly. Some have Addictions. That's nothing the game is responsible for or encouraging. That's just a bitter view because people aren't happy with the RNG.
  • Lelouch2000Lelouch2000 Posts: 5
    And thus Kabam shows off people to just buy shards to play further
  • RotellyRotelly Posts: 361 ★★★
    Will 6* champions count toward class requirement gates or only 5* champs?
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,148 ★★★★★
    Rotelly said:

    Will 6* champions count toward class requirement gates or only 5* champs?

    The 6* gates won't have class restrictions, just some of the 5* ones.
  • RotellyRotelly Posts: 361 ★★★

    Rotelly said:

    Will 6* champions count toward class requirement gates or only 5* champs?

    The 6* gates won't have class restrictions, just some of the 5* ones.
    Correct, i am asking if for example i brought at 6* Mutant would it count towards the minimum Mutant's required or do only 5* champs count towards class specific gates
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★
    Rotelly said:

    Rotelly said:

    Will 6* champions count toward class requirement gates or only 5* champs?

    The 6* gates won't have class restrictions, just some of the 5* ones.
    Correct, i am asking if for example i brought at 6* Mutant would it count towards the minimum Mutant's required or do only 5* champs count towards class specific gates
    Only 5*s.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 6,148 ★★★★★
    Rotelly said:

    Rotelly said:

    Will 6* champions count toward class requirement gates or only 5* champs?

    The 6* gates won't have class restrictions, just some of the 5* ones.
    Correct, i am asking if for example i brought at 6* Mutant would it count towards the minimum Mutant's required or do only 5* champs count towards class specific gates
    Like GW said it's 5*'s only. Not 5*'s and up.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,452 Guardian
    DrZola said:

    I will say it again: summoner satisfaction tends to increase with control over outcomes. You can’t put everything at the whim of the players lest the game fall apart. But there’s a balancing point the game needs to be continually trying to discover.

    Dr. Zola

    Along those lines, I've been thinking about the class gates more, in relation to champion availability. I think if Kabam is going to use class gates in 6.2, perhaps this should come coincident with classful champion crystals. I was specifically thinking about - lets assume the rewards for 6.2 will be similar to 6.1 - replacing the 5* shards with special 5* classful shards that you can use to buy 5* class-specific crystals. So while you're doing the paths in 6.2 for which you have good champs of the appropriate class, you could earn crystals that specifically targeted the classes you were weaker in.

    The idea would be that when you earn 10k of these classful shards you can use them to buy any one of six different 5* crystals, each of which contained only one class. Since this would only be available to Cavalier players (the prerequisite for running 6.2 presumably), and since the focus on Act 6+ is to build rosters wider, this seems to be reasonable game option to give to the players.

    This doesn't increase the number of 5* champs you can earn, but it does provide additional control over "steering" which ones you get to help fill in gaps in the roster. Perhaps this would allow players to "balance" their rosters when RNG goes against them without breaking anything important in the overall game framework. You don't have perfect control, but you have some control.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★

    DNA3000 said:

    Very conservatively, that's over 4000 units in a month.

    Which is actually nothing.

    Spending your entire unit net worth each month on 20 cav crystals to maybe get 2 arena fodder 5 stars is hardly worth getting excited about.

    You're right on most things and you're smart than I am, but you're very wrong on this. "Good access" to 5s and 6s through the cav crystal is wrong on so many levels even if you run this game like a full time job and have a giant roster capable of said grinds and you don't do war or any content.

    Trust me, I've seen it all. I'm in masters, place very high in AQ, so I know what people spend. Having the cavalier title doesn't give us better access to 5s and 6s unless we spend and spend a lot. This game is more pay2win more than ever and getting worse and worse.
    The Cavalier Crystals are not the only access to 6*s and 5*s that we have. Overall, they've become more available than when they were introduced. This is not only some random statement. They have the data to back up that claim. They're not widely available for everyone in the game, but neither is this content.
    We're being told that we have more access to 5*s and 6*s after being cavalier. True technically but a dishonest statement in practice unless we spend. All the grinding in the world for cavalier crystals won't put a dent in our progression.
    That depends on the RNG. It's not necessary to spend thousands. As DNA pointed out, Grinding provides Units to try. Also worth pointing out that those who are Cavalier have access to 5*s and 6*s in other areas of the game, naturally through UC.
    That's exactly my point. It's depends on RNG and the odds are bad. The math says spending 4000 grinded units a month gets us 20 cav crystals or 240 crystals a year. If you're grinding 4000 units a month (if you have a huge roster and all the time in the world in first ) it could get you 24 5*s and 2.4 6*s. Also known as trash.

    You guys call this good access to 5s and 6s?
    Within the game, yes. It's the only Crystal that gives 6*s, and the best rates at 5*s, purchasable for Units.
    The bottom line, which also came up with 6.1, is that not everyone will have what they need when it is released. That's as it should be. It's something to work towards for some, and others may be there already. I'm not sure where along the lines people grew the expectation to have everything you need when a new piece of Top Tier Content comes out, but there wouldn't be any growth if that was the case. Nor would it be a challenge significant enough to be a step up.
    How exactly do we work for these precious 6*s???
    We barley get content that guarantees them consistently, the only way to ensure that we get them on a weekly to monthly basis is through cavalier crystals since they are available for 200 units a pop. And units are available through MONEY, the one thing kabam only cares about, or hours of arena. Yet remember that units are the only way to get revives and energy refills guaranteed with no rng
    By the time someone gets to the Cavalier point, they're most definitely Uncollected. There's the EQ that provides a monthly source of Shards. There are also 5* Dups that yield them, War Seasons, Offers, and yes, Cavalier Crystals. Which don't require spending actual money. There will also be more ways to acquire Shards in the future. Not an official comment, but I have a pretty good inkling. It's not going to happen overnight for some people. That's the same as anything else in the game that requires time and effort. Somehow it's a travesty if they release new content that people can't plow through on Day 1.
    All of what you said and the majority of every single one of your post is based on assumptions. I am a F2P player and cavalier crystals are available since I obtained the title with literally zero 6* on my team since I only have 2 in the years that I’ve played,but I don’t have the wiggle room to buy them regularly since I have to grind arena to go through a lot of bs content filled with bugs and energy requirements that are unjustified.
    You need to do about 9 months of UC to get a crystal guaranteed. you need almost 40 dups to get a 6* crystal. Or I can get cav crystals to ignore all of that
    That's how spending works. Whether In-Game Resources, or actual money, all it does is save time. It's not necessary. It just makes progress speed up. They are available through a number of ways was my point. For someone that has 0 6*s, it will take time to get some. That's no different than anything. Although I'm curious how someone arrives at Cavalier with literally 0 6*s in their Roster. I'd say they should be pretty close to one by then.
    As for the "bs content filled with bugs and energy requirements that are unjustified", that IS the game. Bugs are a separate issue, and working on them is an ongoing process. The Energy required is not unjustified. That is part of what's required to earn them. The statement that Resources are more accessible is not a stab in the dark. They know what's in the game. It's up to people to put the effort in.
  • Ace_03Ace_03 Posts: 823 ★★★★
    Mixalis said:

    Kabam ONLY wants people buying cavalier crystals. If you think about it, on average a player who even spends 1k a month, it takes months to aquire a 6* Champion. You could literally buy 1k worth of cavalier crystals and not get one 6 star. There are many people that play mcoc in Google, where I work and everyone is questioning Kabam's logic.

    My dude, if you think 1k is just "average"... Do you know all the stuff you can do with 1k dollars? I mean, what?! lol, don't y'al pay bills? wtf
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 2,800 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    DrZola said:

    I will say it again: summoner satisfaction tends to increase with control over outcomes. You can’t put everything at the whim of the players lest the game fall apart. But there’s a balancing point the game needs to be continually trying to discover.

    Dr. Zola

    Along those lines, I've been thinking about the class gates more, in relation to champion availability. I think if Kabam is going to use class gates in 6.2, perhaps this should come coincident with classful champion crystals. I was specifically thinking about - lets assume the rewards for 6.2 will be similar to 6.1 - replacing the 5* shards with special 5* classful shards that you can use to buy 5* class-specific crystals. So while you're doing the paths in 6.2 for which you have good champs of the appropriate class, you could earn crystals that specifically targeted the classes you were weaker in.

    The idea would be that when you earn 10k of these classful shards you can use them to buy any one of six different 5* crystals, each of which contained only one class. Since this would only be available to Cavalier players (the prerequisite for running 6.2 presumably), and since the focus on Act 6+ is to build rosters wider, this seems to be reasonable game option to give to the players.

    This doesn't increase the number of 5* champs you can earn, but it does provide additional control over "steering" which ones you get to help fill in gaps in the roster. Perhaps this would allow players to "balance" their rosters when RNG goes against them without breaking anything important in the overall game framework. You don't have perfect control, but you have some control.
    I think I agree with you. The concept of “steering” is a good one. And that’s really all I’m suggesting as well. I think a lot of the complaints about the Last Stand crystals could have been silenced if there was an option for better rewards with more shards—just offer more options to steer toward rewards that suit your level of progression (e.g., 50K shards for Last Stand crystal with more T5, T2a, 6* shards, AG, 400K gold, sig stone crystals X20).

    With respect to champion “steering,” anyone who expects 5* Corvus/Cull/Prox or Domino/OR/AA only crystals is out of touch, but fair class batches might work. I might even be ok with a modest shard price premium (1-2%). Also, a class crystal generally shouldn’t be curated like dungeon crystals (1-2 strong champs among a crowd of also-rans). All champs should be included (or at most a mix that excluded only the very worst in class).

    Dr. Zola
  • Bidzy7Bidzy7 Posts: 157
    always seems to be the same people that flood these discussions intent on defending the actions and choices kabam makes. Some aren't even at the end game content that we are discussing.


    The problem kabam have is that they have created an environment where certain champions just dominate. This means that when new content/challenges are released these champs are so strong they have no problem getting players through the content. So hence why we have gone this route since act 6. Its a way for kabam to restrict the effectiveness and use of certain champs while providing a challenge that won't be completed in 1 day.
    But i feel Kabam have forgot that its not just about creating challenging content, but also fun content. Variant 2 is a good example of this. There isn't anything fun about being forced to rank up a champion you don't like to play or find not as effective and use them to complete stuff.
    Speaking based on my account i have 53 5* Champs. 6 of them are science. I have a r4 cap IW and a r3 MODOK, the other 4 are sitting at r1. Now why are the rest sitting at r1 , well simply put they offer me nothing in terms of gameplay or mechnics that other champs don't already provide, or they aren't enjoyable to play so i haven't bothered with them. Also limited gold resources means i have to be very selective ranking up champs and the gold earned in the end game content does not match the gold needed to level up champs of 5* and 6* rarity same goes for the iso rewarded in quests( Something which should of been updated in line with summoner advancement, potentially like the daily crystals).
    my Tech champs are in a similar state 1 r4 1 r3, rest are sitting at r2/r1s.

    The early gate restrictions are fine, even the ones for map 3 & 4 are acceptable as i would imagine like myself there is 1-2 champions of decent rank and ability most players have for every class and potentially finding another 1-2 to either rank up or simply bring to activate a synergy or something wouldn't be too much of a ask. But 4 classes is too much imo.
    The 6* restrictions are also too much considering how scarce 6* are compared to 5*. On average players probably get 2-3 5* a month where as getting 1 6* takes between 3-4 months depending on AW and arena grinding you do as well as duplicating 5*. So the 6* restrictions should of been more like 1 6* champ in maps 1-3 and 2 in 4-6. That i feel would of been more appropriate in terms of where most are in the game.
    Now i have skimmed over stuff from people who beta tested this and state that the champions on those gates weren't too bad and were fairly easy even with the restriction. However that is very much subjective and based on your roster. As far as i know most beta testers if not all are pretty high ranked players with pretty stacked rosters, so its hard to verify this until the content gets dropped. Even so i would imagine the boss of the map won't be a easy fight so not sure how being restricted to 4 champions of a particular class will not make the boss fight more difficult.

    It was stated that 6* shard would be made more readily available but this has been a mixed bag. April we saw this in the bounty missions. May we didn't see this, apart from them being in the rng crystals. Would it not of made sense to add some shards to the highest difficulty of the stones side quest ?

    Also the 6* restriction paths, how are these tuned to make it advantages to use 6* champs ? The class paths i can imagine will mean you have class advantage against every opponent, but how can you make a 6* restricted path easier based on rarity. Is there a node which boosts 6* champs ?


    also skimmed over some comments about how this at its core is collecting game.... erm no at its core its a fighting game, which it also states in the app store. The purpose of this game is to fight your way through bosses, story mode and quests, which is done by assembling your team and leveling them up. In doing so you earn rewards to rank up champions and get crystals to add new champions to your team. This isn't like pokemon which is at its core a collecting game


  • Bidzy7Bidzy7 Posts: 157
    DNA3000 said:

    DrZola said:

    I will say it again: summoner satisfaction tends to increase with control over outcomes. You can’t put everything at the whim of the players lest the game fall apart. But there’s a balancing point the game needs to be continually trying to discover.

    Dr. Zola

    Along those lines, I've been thinking about the class gates more, in relation to champion availability. I think if Kabam is going to use class gates in 6.2, perhaps this should come coincident with classful champion crystals. I was specifically thinking about - lets assume the rewards for 6.2 will be similar to 6.1 - replacing the 5* shards with special 5* classful shards that you can use to buy 5* class-specific crystals. So while you're doing the paths in 6.2 for which you have good champs of the appropriate class, you could earn crystals that specifically targeted the classes you were weaker in.

    The idea would be that when you earn 10k of these classful shards you can use them to buy any one of six different 5* crystals, each of which contained only one class. Since this would only be available to Cavalier players (the prerequisite for running 6.2 presumably), and since the focus on Act 6+ is to build rosters wider, this seems to be reasonable game option to give to the players.

    This doesn't increase the number of 5* champs you can earn, but it does provide additional control over "steering" which ones you get to help fill in gaps in the roster. Perhaps this would allow players to "balance" their rosters when RNG goes against them without breaking anything important in the overall game framework. You don't have perfect control, but you have some control.
    Its a nice idea, I think however they will be less inclined to do a single class crystal and not without a significant cost because some classes like cosmic have alot of really strong champions.

    The again this could be possible, thinking about it now, if it was implemented like the dungeon crystals. They offer a limited pool of select champions and you can only purchase one crystal. After a certain number of months these get rotated. So if they did those on a class basis that could work.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★

    I have yet to hear one good reason why these restrictions are good for players.

    Not one.

    How can an entire rarity of champions be tossed in the trash like this? Is there a point of investing into 5* anymore, or even the game in general?

    Tell me. Why would I be interested in using a 6* arena fodder champ over the many god tier 5/65s I spent a fortune getting and ranking up? Anyone want to answer? Anyone??

    inb4 a certain someone chimes in with a word salad and a certain someone else waxes poetic about high level game theory and why advanced mathematics means a hulkbuster is better for my game enjoyment than a sig 200 omega.

    Not sure about Word Salad, but if you're looking for a guarantee that what you Rank will be the best option for every piece of content, you should probably consider other games. There is no such thing as a Ranking choice that suits everything in this game. Your "God Tiers" won't always be the best option, and a few Paths in 6.2 doesn't mean your Ranking choice has gone down the drain. That is highly dramatic.
  • Gambl0rGambl0r Posts: 139

    Gambl0r said:

    4 gates, and the 4th one requires 4 six star champs? wth? You say you're introducing these gates to diversify the use of various champions, but it's really quite the opposite, forcing us to use a very limited choice of champions, which of course will induce more spending on revives/potions/boosts.

    If you really wanted the expanded use of all the characters in the game, the gates would be specific character(s) based, instead 6-star restricted. Tie that together with the 4-star ban in Act 6, this is an obvious ploy to induce buying Cavalier Crystals, period. There is no other way to gain a respectable 6-star roster. Act 5 gives you half a 6-star crystal (one-time), the monthly event gives you 25% of one, and duping a 5-star gives you 2.75% of one. Do you know how long it takes just to grind out 10k 6-star shards?

    Don't be surprised if Chapter 4 is completely restricted to 6 star champs. It's officially pay to play. Whales now have a significant advantage and a shortcut for faster progression in the game via Cavalier crystals

    After a complete failure this month, in which should've been the biggest event in MCOC history, more disappointment.

    Its 6 out 60 paths. You'll be ok.
    6 paths that you need to clear to get the exploration rewards...
    What's the point of clearing 54 paths, if it's the same rewards as clearing one path per chapter?
  • LongtimegamerLongtimegamer Posts: 179 ★★★

    I have yet to hear one good reason why these restrictions are good for players.

    Not one.

    How can an entire rarity of champions be tossed in the trash like this? Is there a point of investing into 5* anymore, or even the game in general?

    Tell me. Why would I be interested in using a 6* arena fodder champ over the many god tier 5/65s I spent a fortune getting and ranking up? Anyone want to answer? Anyone??

    inb4 a certain someone chimes in with a word salad and a certain someone else waxes poetic about high level game theory and why advanced mathematics means a hulkbuster is better for my game enjoyment than a sig 200 omega.

    Not sure about Word Salad, but if you're looking for a guarantee that what you Rank will be the best option for every piece of content, you should probably consider other games. There is no such thing as a Ranking choice that suits everything in this game. Your "God Tiers" won't always be the best option, and a few Paths in 6.2 doesn't mean your Ranking choice has gone down the drain. That is highly dramatic.
    I don't expect the red sedan I just bought to be banned from the roads and then told I need to buy the exact same car except in blue.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 20,468 ★★★★★

    I have yet to hear one good reason why these restrictions are good for players.

    Not one.

    How can an entire rarity of champions be tossed in the trash like this? Is there a point of investing into 5* anymore, or even the game in general?

    Tell me. Why would I be interested in using a 6* arena fodder champ over the many god tier 5/65s I spent a fortune getting and ranking up? Anyone want to answer? Anyone??

    inb4 a certain someone chimes in with a word salad and a certain someone else waxes poetic about high level game theory and why advanced mathematics means a hulkbuster is better for my game enjoyment than a sig 200 omega.

    Not sure about Word Salad, but if you're looking for a guarantee that what you Rank will be the best option for every piece of content, you should probably consider other games. There is no such thing as a Ranking choice that suits everything in this game. Your "God Tiers" won't always be the best option, and a few Paths in 6.2 doesn't mean your Ranking choice has gone down the drain. That is highly dramatic.
    I don't expect the red sedan I just bought to be banned from the roads and then told I need to buy the exact same car except in blue.
    You're not purchasing anything. You're using their digital product for entertainment. The game is increasingly complex. Over 150 Champs, up to 6 Rarities, varying Ranks for each, different Abilities, strengths, weaknesses, and uses for all within content. Content that is constantly improved on, made more challenging, and growing. With 2-3 new Champs added each month and new content added on a regular basis, nothing is a be-all-end-all. Once again, there is no such thing as a Champ that can be used for everything in this game.
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