Do you think that this list is accurate?

2

Comments

  • EtjamaEtjama Posts: 1,660 ★★★
    edited June 2019
    It's very accurate
    Jlive78 said:

    I’m big on lists, really helps me prioritize rank ups. I’ve looked an numerous lists over the years and Seatin’s is closest to my own opinions.

    That's exactly how I am, but there have been a few things I disagree with, so I made this one.
  • EtjamaEtjama Posts: 1,660 ★★★
    edited June 2019
    It's very accurate
    DalBot said:

    Namor >>> AA and it's not even close. AA is gimped against any champ with bleed or poison immunity. Namor still destroys them and has a ton of utility in those fights.

    Thanks for the info, I don't have Namor yet, so I've been just going off of what content I've seen online. I'll look into that a bit more.
  • RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 682 ★★★
    It's pretty accurate, but I still disagree with some stuff
    Killmonger 100% needs to be in God tier
  • EarthEliteEarthElite Posts: 839 ★★★
    It's pretty accurate, but I still disagree with some stuff
    Wait a minute, Hyperion has a large benefit from his sig ability? It barely even affects him?
  • G0311G0311 Posts: 847 ★★★
    Its a personal opinion based on his experience, feelings, and his dealings with the characters.
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 2,307 ★★★★★

    Hyperion was only one example, you want more there you go: spiked armor (crossbones eats it, star lord gets eaten by it), all power gain nodes (maybe they are possible with star lord, but hawkeye makes them much easier, star lord is fine if you assume hyperion will throw sp1/2 100% of time, which he doesnt), rage crossbones>star lord, anything that can be prevented with ability accuracy reduction both crossbones and masacre>star lord, any heavy regen nodes masacre with despair>star lord

    You want to go with you're not a fan of SL, sure that works. He doesn't have much utility therefore is garbage is frankly a garbage opinion. That's the whole point of bringing in a team, so different members of it counter different things. Big league damage will always be valuable and SL is among the best in that regard. Is he a top 5 champ anymore? Of course not. Is he garbage? That's a more laughable opinion then him being in the top tier.
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 2,307 ★★★★★

    Wait a minute, Hyperion has a large benefit from his sig ability? It barely even affects him?

    Do you use him? Having his buffs last 70% longer is a major benefit. It might not be necessary to make him a great champ but he certainly gets a large benefit from it.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 9,896 Guardian

    I know that if you can clear the fight with star lord then you can clear it even with 2star hulkbuster, because he doesn't counter a single defensive mechanic, he only makes fights faster, but ok keep lying to new people that star lord is good so they waste materials to rank up that garbage and then stand in front of hyperion mini boss in aq and cry for someone smart enough to rank up hawkeye instead to clear it for them

    The game is more complex than that. For example, many champion's most dangerous attribute is that they ramp up in difficulty. Take The Champion for example. And some champions have regeneration you have to fight through. Champions with either high damage or high burst damage can counteract some defensive properties of other champions by virtue of ending the fight quicker than those things can act.

    Personally, I think Star Lord tends to be overrated by many, mostly due to reputation. But that doesn't mean it is as simple as "he doesn't counter anything." High damage still matters. It is just that in the old days, it virtually always worked. These days, it is just one among many different tools to bring down defenders, and often not the best one.
  • BadroseBadrose Posts: 619 ★★★
    Eh, it's alright
    The Beyond God Tier (stupid name) list shouldn't include so many names.
  • Bwest289Bwest289 Posts: 102
    I used to be down on emma. Hated that she didn't have many synergies and just overall didn't really care for her...then I duped my 6* and felt obligated to give her a try.

    That girl has a truckload of utility and hits hard. I used her to clear sinister in 6.2.2. I use her for AQ and AW religiously as she does great against many of these new nodes. I use her for EQ cuz shes always able to handle the crazy node combos that kabam comes up with. This girl is amazing and needs to be beyond God tier.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 9,896 Guardian
    Badrose said:

    The Beyond God Tier (stupid name) list shouldn't include so many names.

    The names are somewhat hyperbolic, but I personally view people's champion ranking lists as relative rankings and not absolute ones. Whether you call a particular category "god tier" or "two" doesn't mean much to me.

    Even relative rankings are pretty slippery, because virtually no one states an actual objective criteria for their rankings. But absolute rankings are basically impossible to encapsulate in one list, because I don't think there is any interesting way you can measure every champion on a linear scale with in absolute terms.
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 2,307 ★★★★★
    Badrose said:

    The Beyond God Tier (stupid name) list shouldn't include so many names.

    Couldn't agree more, not a fan of the tier names and also agree the absolute top tier should be made up of very few champs.
  • trey92008trey92008 Posts: 96
    It's pretty accurate, but I still disagree with some stuff
    How is KM not in the same tier or higher than GP?
  • Dexman1349Dexman1349 Posts: 3,060 ★★★★★
    From an over-arching high level, the list is pretty accurate. The list tends to hold up if you're simply looking for a champ to do random general questing. I tend to think of it in terms of a medium level player working through Heroic/Master EQ with 4* champs. Nothing particularly difficult with clearing lanes with some utility needed for bosses.

    However, when you start drilling down to specific buffs/debuffs/opponents/content you're trying to complete and painting a very specific scenario, the list can change quite drastically. The list of champs who are ideal for AW path 6 is different than who you use for AQ bosses, and may be completely different than who you would bring to LOL or Variant. Also, who is good on one path of an event may be trash for a different path (like Acts 5 & 6 or AW/AQ). As noted above, champs like AA can absolutely destroy things like ROL Wolverine, but is one of the worst options against a stun-immune Cable with Cornered.

    Just look at the changes to AW. Players were running their standard array of God-tiered champs and were 100% exploring the map every time. Kabam changed the buffs and suddenly alliances are stalled at the first miniboss.

    Also, champs are reliant on player skills. Some players use a Parry-based attack style and champs like Corvus, Blade, Cap Marvel, and AA work really well for them. Those players tend to struggle using champs like Quake, Stark and Ghost because they have different fight mechanics. If you struggle keeping hit streaks going, then Aegon, Starlord and Winter Soldier (with KM synergy) aren't nearly the god-tier champs others say they are.
  • DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,785 ★★★★★
    This kind of tier list has become limited because MCOC mechanics have evolved so much in the last 2 years. Back then damage output was the main thing that gave offensive value to champions. Now we have game mechanics like phasing, Glaive’s Immunity, Namor’s signature ability, and passive abilities like Human Torch’s Nova Flames and Emma Frost’s Diamond Form giving her immunity to bleed/poison/shock/incinerate “effects” instead of “debuffs”.

    This tier list format is very useful for players working on Act 5 progression and other mid-tier content such as Map 5 and Tier 6 and below Alliance War. Once you reach Act 6, Map 6-7, AW Tier 1-5, and Epic Difficulty Event Quests you get introduced to game content/mechanics that aren’t managed well by massive damage output alone.
  • Dexman1349Dexman1349 Posts: 3,060 ★★★★★
    I would also reference tools like @DTMelodicMetal 's youtube channel where the overall game meta complexity is discussed. There are some champs that do a lot of things but only do them fairly well (like Voodoo and Ghost Rider), while other champs only do a couple things exceptionally well (like Magik and Starlord).
  • Blue_Eyed_ThingBlue_Eyed_Thing Posts: 126
    Eh, it's alright
    Just my two cents but in a game tailored to bringing the right champs for the right scenario a tier list is just worthless. That's like saying this Philips head is beyond God tier while the torx 11.5 is trash. What happens if you need a torx 11.5? Do you try to use the Philips? Or do you grab the proper tool? The answer I would think would be to grab the proper tool, so tier lists are also based on who you have. Not sure where Civil Warrior lands on the list but for awhile he was my only power drain champ he also put in some good work (along with willpower mastery) against act 6 crossbones. Not the best champ but for me he was my torx 11.5, I like to think a lot of other people make similar decisions and rank up should be based on personal experience. Rather then the opinion of a random youtuber.
  • mgj0630mgj0630 Posts: 152
    Eh, it's alright
    It's a pretty decent list, but at a quick glance, I definitely disagree with some of the Mutant assessments.

    Iceman should be higher, cause his sustainability against sp3 will allow him to do more damage over all than many others, so if it's purely about offensive use (overall damage output), he should be higher. I don't have Namor yet to make a first hand assessment of him, but from what I have read, his damage output is ridiculous. Wolverine is ranked WAY too high. I think he's an awesome character, and I would certainly revaluate if they release him as a 5 or 6 star, but even having some of the best regen in the game, with a max 4* and max sig, his regen can't keep up with the damage output in the current meta of the game. That regen is what sustains him to do more damage over time, so being unable to keep up makes him useless in my opinion.

    For Cosmic champs, I'd put Cull above Medusa and Hyperion. Debatable against Corvus, since Corvus can out damage Cull from a clean slate. No debate that Cull crushes all when he's ramped up.

  • Dexman1349Dexman1349 Posts: 3,060 ★★★★★
    edited June 2019
    Ranking champs is a lot like ranking vehicles at a new car dealership.

    What's better, the V8 sportscar or the 3/4-ton truck? Depends on whether you're going racing or need to climb a snowy mountain. If you have 5 kids and a dog, you'd probably consider the utility of a minivan.

    If you do plan on going racing, what kind are you going to do? A COPO Camaro and Subaru STI rally car are each top of their vastly different classes.

    Then, do you have the driving skills to drift the STI down the windy mountain course or would you be better on a motorcycle?

    Each of these vehicle would be considered "god-tier" (except maybe the minivan) but are obviously not interchangeable. You just have to know what kind of driver you are and what track you're trying to complete.
  • mgj0630mgj0630 Posts: 152
    Eh, it's alright
    @Dexman1349 I love this analogy, cause I can completely relate to it. I have a 5/35 Ghost, clearly capable of huge damage, but I can't master the technique required to achieve that damage. To that end, for me, several other tech champions dealer better damage for me.

    She's the sports car you mentioned when I'm strutting along in my Domino minivan (straight forward, huge raw damage).
  • EtjamaEtjama Posts: 1,660 ★★★
    It's very accurate
    I see what all of you are saying as far as counters and specific champs for specific uses, but this list is just for basic overall usefulness. Like was said by @Jlive78 earlier, it's nice to have something to guide you through rank-ups and I know that I benefited A LOT from these kind of lists when I was a beginner. While it would be nice, you obviously wouldn't make a tier list for every combination of defenders and nodes you come by. So saying that tier lists are useless just cause of that isn't right.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 9,896 Guardian
    Etjama said:

    I see what all of you are saying as far as counters and specific champs for specific uses, but this list is just for basic overall usefulness. Like was said by @Jlive78 earlier, it's nice to have something to guide you through rank-ups and I know that I benefited A LOT from these kind of lists when I was a beginner. While it would be nice, you obviously wouldn't make a tier list for every combination of defenders and nodes you come by. So saying that tier lists are useless just cause of that isn't right.

    What I think most people are trying to say is that when we say that Domino is more valuable than Colossus, the two have such wildly different levels of utility that is generally a safe statement. But when someone says that Symbiote Supreme is better than Hulk Ragnarok, the details of why they are saying that are much more important, because that statement is likely to be false in too many situations to just handwave away. There's no such thing as "basic overall usefulness" except in the very early game, when "basic overall usefulness" generally equates to "who hits really hard."

    Put it another way. If you're still in the early part of the game, there's generally no harm in trusting these lists, not because they are "right" but because they are "not wrong." Meaning: if you choose Gwenpool over Crossbones because Gwenpool is higher than Crossbones on your list it will generally work out. It will generally work out because had you gone the other way and chosen Crossbones over Gwenpool, it would probably still work out.

    But once you get past a certain point, it no longer matters if Gwenpool is higher than Crossbones. What matters is whether you're trying to complete content that Gwenpool is better at than Crossbones, or vice versa. At that point "basic usefulness" becomes literally worthless. Five very good generally useful champs can fail in content that five situationally useful champs would excel in, if you pick the right ones. You really do need to know why people think the champs are highly rated, not just that they are highly rated.
  • mgj0630mgj0630 Posts: 152
    Eh, it's alright
    Etjama said:

    I see what all of you are saying as far as counters and specific champs for specific uses, but this list is just for basic overall usefulness. Like was said by @Jlive78 earlier, it's nice to have something to guide you through rank-ups and I know that I benefited A LOT from these kind of lists when I was a beginner. While it would be nice, you obviously wouldn't make a tier list for every combination of defenders and nodes you come by. So saying that tier lists are useless just cause of that isn't right.

    @Etjama Purely constructive criticism here, because I do like the intent, but if that intent is to advise rank ups, would it be possible to add an asterisk to characters like Wolverine, that are only available as 4*, that these characters are only useful to a certain point in the game? He's literally not able to be used in Act 6, and Variant content would crush him as his regen can't keep up with the incoming damage.

    Just a positive critique. I do like where your head is with a list like this though.
  • EtjamaEtjama Posts: 1,660 ★★★
    edited June 2019
    It's very accurate
    mgj0630 said:

    Etjama said:

    I see what all of you are saying as far as counters and specific champs for specific uses, but this list is just for basic overall usefulness. Like was said by @Jlive78 earlier, it's nice to have something to guide you through rank-ups and I know that I benefited A LOT from these kind of lists when I was a beginner. While it would be nice, you obviously wouldn't make a tier list for every combination of defenders and nodes you come by. So saying that tier lists are useless just cause of that isn't right.

    @Etjama Purely constructive criticism here, because I do like the intent, but if that intent is to advise rank ups, would it be possible to add an asterisk to characters like Wolverine, that are only available as 4*, that these characters are only useful to a certain point in the game? He's literally not able to be used in Act 6, and Variant content would crush him as his regen can't keep up with the incoming damage.

    Just a positive critique. I do like where your head is with a list like this though.
    Thanks for the criticism. That asterisk idea is good and definitely doable in the right hands. The idea I'm getting from you is kind of a "Useful until..." footnote. (But correct me if I'm wrong.) I personally don't have enough experience to do this, but if anyone else wants to, I'd be happy to send a link.
  • Dexman1349Dexman1349 Posts: 3,060 ★★★★★
    edited June 2019
    To relate @DNA3000 's point to my earlier car analogy:

    When you first start learning how to drive, just about anything with 4 wheels will work because you're only doing general to-from driving. Doesn't really matter if you have a Lexus or a Pinto since you're only going to the grocery store. However, as you progress and learn different driving techniques and face different driving scenarios (mountains, bad weather, higher speeds, etc), you find different cars work better. Eventually, you progress to the point that the only roads left to navigate are the snowy mountain passes and specialist tracks.

    Those younger drivers do need guidance as to which cars will serve them better in the long term. Which ones should they focus their learning on that will help them through most of what they will face down the road so they don't latch onto the first car they get behind the wheel of. And the list does a good job helping those people from spending too much time with Khan and Groot.

    A some point somewhere between getting Uncollected and Cavalier, the list really loses a lot of effectiveness because 1) we only have specific scenarios to work through and 2) we've been playing long enough to see what tools exist and where to use them.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 9,896 Guardian

    A some point somewhere between getting Uncollected and Cavalier, the list really loses a lot of effectiveness because 1) we only have specific scenarios to work through and 2) we've been playing long enough to see what tools exist and where to use them.

    I think it starts happening earlier although by then everyone I think is feeling it. It is probably in Act 4 where you start to see questions of the form "what do I need to beat this guy?" and the answer isn't "any top tier champ will do" (of course, if you're whipping out those rank 5 5* champs, any champ will do, but what are you doing in Act 4?). And then in the Act 5/Uncollected/Epic range you start seeing questions of the form "what do I need for this path/section/node?" And by the time you're doing epic special events and tackling Act 6, you're much more likely to be assembling teams where every member of the team is there for a purpose, and you aren't just stacking your "top" champs in there.

    It is probably also somewhere between starting Act 5 and Cavalier where most players stop ranking up their "best" champs and start ranking up to fill holes. If you have a hard hitter, you don't just rank up another hard hitter just because they are considered top tier. You start ranking up because you need more sustainability, or you need more immunity, or you need some other capability that you start feeling is holding you back. That's when you rank up that Loki because even though he's only "sometimes useful" you don't have anything else for those sometimes.
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