Apparently some Alliances didn't get the memo about the AW rating lock

SiriusBreak

We unfortunately ran into an Alliance which I can only surmise is attempting to tank. 11 out of 23 players placed in a 3 BG war. However, I did learn something from this. If you do not have a Champion placed on a Boss node, the whole of the BG's defenders do not get the Defense Tactics Global Node. However it is annoying as 1 of our BGs will get 0 practice with any form of DT. Unfortunately not much can be done about this. Yeah, it's easy shards, and Loyalty, but we're running AW during the Off Season to learn about these. It's bloody frustrating.

The crazy thing is, the same exact thing happened last Off Season during our 1st AND 3rd war (same Alliance taboot as we lost our 2nd war). Ran into an Alliance that clearly was tanking and it took away from our opportunity to learn the new Map. The tactic in itself is ridiculous, and annoying to those who play straight up. Although at the same time, I do understand why it was done in the past. It's a tactical maneuver. Just a very irritating one. The major upside for us has been taken away to detour the practice (easy war rating boost). So all in all, today is essentially a waste of a war and locks up champs that could've been better utilized elsewhere.

With all that said, I'm still quite happy they employed this. Hopefully all those that missed the memo will stop trying to do this after seeing it no longer works. In turn, stop screwing over Alliances that are trying to make the most of the Off Season in learning as much about Defense Tactics as possible. The practice in itself is completely unethical for a myriad of reasons. I know, looking for ethical play in a game is occasionally pointless considering there's people who lack the care to play straight up.

Worknprogress

Maybe a lot of the alliance doesn't care about the offseason and they don't have to participate as you can't drop rating so they'd rather use their champs to complete content before the season starts.

kfd2010

Dropfaith said:

Worknprogress said:

Maybe a lot of the alliance doesn't care about the offseason and they don't have to participate as you can't drop rating so they'd rather use their champs to complete content before the season starts.

Then why enlist?

Because it's still a way to get some some rewards. Even taking a loss is going to get a small amount of shards and such. Is it "in the spirit of the game?" Nah. But I don't fault someone for trying to collect a small amount of 5* shards give 5* champs are so important now that the main quest is gated.

(Edit: this is my assumption. I've never tanked but figure you get SOME rewards even if you don't do much. Or if you complete the offensive portion but don't want to waste 5 top champs for two days by putting them on D)

SiriusBreak

kfd2010 said:

Dropfaith said:

Worknprogress said:

Maybe a lot of the alliance doesn't care about the offseason and they don't have to participate as you can't drop rating so they'd rather use their champs to complete content before the season starts.

Then why enlist?

Because it's still a way to get some some rewards. Even taking a loss is going to get a small amount of shards and such. Is it "in the spirit of the game?" Nah. But I don't fault someone for trying to collect a small amount of 5* shards give 5* champs are so important now that the main quest is gated.

(Edit: this is my assumption. I've never tanked but figure you get SOME rewards even if you don't do much. Or if you complete the offensive portion but don't want to waste 5 top champs for two days by putting them on D)

If that were the case, all 23 likely would've placed. Even if they had placed all 1, 2, 3 or 4* champs, it would've been nice to see how the DT node functions. Low champs are better than no champs in my eyes. I do understand that it's a way to get some rewards, but this layout looks almost identical to the situation we ran into last Off Season. May even be the same Alliance as last time. It's an Asian Alliance by title, and I don't remember the characters from last time. There were players who didn't even bother to join AW with 1* champs in attack, in turn, not getting ANY participation rewards. That to me screams tanking over easy reward influx.

GroundedWisdom

It's been going on a long time. It'll take some time to break the habit. Eventually, people will catch on. Either that, or make no progress with it.

SiriusBreak

GroundedWisdom said:

It's been going on a long time. It'll take some time to break the habit. Eventually, people will catch on. Either that, or make no progress with it.

Pretty much, yeah. Just gonna be annoying in the meantime I guess, lol. It is what it is at the end of the day. Can't change what happened, just deal with it and move on. Hope for the best that matchmaking doesn't match us up AGAIN.

GroundedWisdom

SiriusBreak said:

GroundedWisdom said:

It's been going on a long time. It'll take some time to break the habit. Eventually, people will catch on. Either that, or make no progress with it.

Pretty much, yeah. Just gonna be annoying in the meantime I guess, lol. It is what it is at the end of the day. Can't change what happened, just deal with it and move on. Hope for the best that matchmaking doesn't match us up AGAIN.

Yeah. Old habits die hard. Especially the bad ones. Lol.

Chris1212123

Can I ask what tier you’re in ?

SiriusBreak

Tier 4

Solrac_2

There are a lot of allys relaxing during the off-season--this is the norm for most. Our ally will run no item usage during the off-season (Plat 3) and even considered not placing defense to not have champs tired up so that people could finish content and rank up for prestige. We did place for the first war though, fyi.

The major issue in AW isn't really tanking but rather ally swapping. 3 of the top 5 allys in Masters are doing this (besides many, many others). Drop to a lower rated ally that you illegally paid to have the treasury filled. Then ditto the following off-season.

TheTalents

I think it is easier to relax since your war rating won't be changed by much. It only really benefited the Top Tier to tank.

SiriusBreak

Solrac_2 said:

There are a lot of allys relaxing during the off-season--this is the norm for most. Our ally will run no item usage during the off-season (Plat 3) and even considered not placing defense to not have champs tired up so that people could finish content and rank up for prestige. We did place for the first war though, fyi.

The major issue in AW isn't really tanking but rather ally swapping. 3 of the top 5 allys in Masters are doing this (besides many, many others). Drop to a lower rated ally that you illegally paid to have the treasury filled. Then ditto the following off-season.

Oh I agree that Shell Alliances are indeed an issue. No question. Just the same there's clearly other aspects of tanking that do harm is the central point of this. I can even understand not wanting to tie up your top champs in AW during the Off Season. That's all well and good in my book as long as you take the time to place SOMETHING. Even a slew of 4* champs, or lower ranked 5* champs would be better than nothing if they're just sitting in your roster doing nothing. That way players can at least get somewhat of a feel as to how Defense Tactics works. It's a small act of courtesy, and I don't think it's asking too much is all I'm getting at.

SiriusBreak

TheTalents said:

I think it is easier to relax since your war rating won't be changed by much. It only really benefited the Top Tier to tank.

Ummm... would you mind expanding upon that thought? In what context do you mean relax? Relax and not play AW at all? Relax and not worry about war rating numbers changing (considering they're locked in T5+). Relax and not worry about Alliances tanking in general?

If it's the latter of the 3, it's still frustrating for those who want to learn how Defense Tactics works. When an Alliance enlists, only 11 players place in a 3 BG war, and you get matched against said Alliance... that's a bit frustrating. Especially when you take the time to do a full defense grid layout to see how your defenders would function. All those champs are now tied up, and time was essentially wasted. If it were just another Off Season, we'd probably just take a few wars off in general. That's not exactly the case here though.

Worknprogress

Solrac_2 said:

There are a lot of allys relaxing during the off-season--this is the norm for most. Our ally will run no item usage during the off-season (Plat 3) and even considered not placing defense to not have champs tired up so that people could finish content and rank up for prestige. We did place for the first war though, fyi.

The major issue in AW isn't really tanking but rather ally swapping. 3 of the top 5 allys in Masters are doing this (besides many, many others). Drop to a lower rated ally that you illegally paid to have the treasury filled. Then ditto the following off-season.

Tanking was never actually a big issue. I don't think it really made much of a difference and I've been in alliances that did and some that didn't. It was just something for people to get worked up about and made them feel better when they got bad matches

SiriusBreak

Worknprogress said:

Solrac_2 said:

There are a lot of allys relaxing during the off-season--this is the norm for most. Our ally will run no item usage during the off-season (Plat 3) and even considered not placing defense to not have champs tired up so that people could finish content and rank up for prestige. We did place for the first war though, fyi.

The major issue in AW isn't really tanking but rather ally swapping. 3 of the top 5 allys in Masters are doing this (besides many, many others). Drop to a lower rated ally that you illegally paid to have the treasury filled. Then ditto the following off-season.

Tanking was never actually a big issue. I don't think it really made much of a difference and I've been in alliances that did and some that didn't. It was just something for people to get worked up about and made them feel better when they got bad matches

I wouldn't say it was a big issue, but it was an issue none the less. The idea that they'd supposedly get easier matches at the beginning of the Season (which I honestly don't know much about), coupled with irritating other Alliances that wanted to get some off season experience, it is a nuisance. The bigger issue is likely the Shell Alliance situation to be quite honest when it comes to matchmaking manipulation. At the end of the day, they both were methods of doing such, and 1 has been semi-dealt with. Still can tank your Shell Alliance during the Season and swap though. Hopefully that will eventually be addressed as well.

GroundedWisdom

It was a larger issue than just the potential gains. It was altering the system of Matchmaking to the point where it was no longer a reflection of ability.

BigPoppaCBONE

SiriusBreak said:

kfd2010 said:

Dropfaith said:

Worknprogress said:

Maybe a lot of the alliance doesn't care about the offseason and they don't have to participate as you can't drop rating so they'd rather use their champs to complete content before the season starts.

Then why enlist?

Because it's still a way to get some some rewards. Even taking a loss is going to get a small amount of shards and such. Is it "in the spirit of the game?" Nah. But I don't fault someone for trying to collect a small amount of 5* shards give 5* champs are so important now that the main quest is gated.

(Edit: this is my assumption. I've never tanked but figure you get SOME rewards even if you don't do much. Or if you complete the offensive portion but don't want to waste 5 top champs for two days by putting them on D)

If that were the case, all 23 likely would've placed. Even if they had placed all 1, 2, 3 or 4* champs, it would've been nice to see how the DT node functions. Low champs are better than no champs in my eyes. I do understand that it's a way to get some rewards, but this layout looks almost identical to the situation we ran into last Off Season. May even be the same Alliance as last time. It's an Asian Alliance by title, and I don't remember the characters from last time. There were players who didn't even bother to join AW with 1* champs in attack, in turn, not getting ANY participation rewards. That to me screams tanking over easy reward influx.

Some people don't care about the participation rewards as much as others. We've had people decline to participate when they didn't feel it was worth the minimal hassle.

SiriusBreak

BigPoppaCBONE said:

SiriusBreak said:

kfd2010 said:

Dropfaith said:

Worknprogress said:

Maybe a lot of the alliance doesn't care about the offseason and they don't have to participate as you can't drop rating so they'd rather use their champs to complete content before the season starts.

Then why enlist?

Because it's still a way to get some some rewards. Even taking a loss is going to get a small amount of shards and such. Is it "in the spirit of the game?" Nah. But I don't fault someone for trying to collect a small amount of 5* shards give 5* champs are so important now that the main quest is gated.

(Edit: this is my assumption. I've never tanked but figure you get SOME rewards even if you don't do much. Or if you complete the offensive portion but don't want to waste 5 top champs for two days by putting them on D)

If that were the case, all 23 likely would've placed. Even if they had placed all 1, 2, 3 or 4* champs, it would've been nice to see how the DT node functions. Low champs are better than no champs in my eyes. I do understand that it's a way to get some rewards, but this layout looks almost identical to the situation we ran into last Off Season. May even be the same Alliance as last time. It's an Asian Alliance by title, and I don't remember the characters from last time. There were players who didn't even bother to join AW with 1* champs in attack, in turn, not getting ANY participation rewards. That to me screams tanking over easy reward influx.

Some people don't care about the participation rewards as much as others. We've had people decline to participate when they didn't feel it was worth the minimal hassle.

During a basic Off Season, that is what it is I guess. But when you have a potenial game changer like Defense Tactics in play, it's kind of wasting other's time. Which I guess common courtesy is a dying concept these days.

ADD ON - If it is known that you won't have your full crew in, why bother opening 3 BGs? Perhaps I'm just a bit too practical and don't understand people these days. *shrug*

Dexman1349

Honestly if my war rating was locked, I'd probably place garbage defense and use c-team attackers too. No items used, move a couple nodes on attack and forget about it. Just collect some essentially free rewards with no cost/effort.

Dexman1349

Another idea from the "anything to gain an advantage" pool: why would you want your opposition to learn how to fight against Defense Tactics in the off season? I would foresee some allies purposefully not placing the boss or placing garbage defense in the offseason so the opposition gets less practice.

Is it fair play? debatable. Is it what Kabam wants, probably not. Will alliances do it? most definitely.

BigPoppaCBONE

SiriusBreak said:

TheTalents said:

I think it is easier to relax since your war rating won't be changed by much. It only really benefited the Top Tier to tank.

Ummm... would you mind expanding upon that thought? In what context do you mean relax? Relax and not play AW at all? Relax and not worry about war rating numbers changing (considering they're locked in T5+). Relax and not worry about Alliances tanking in general?

If it's the latter of the 3, it's still frustrating for those who want to learn how Defense Tactics works. When an Alliance enlists, only 11 players place in a 3 BG war, and you get matched against said Alliance... that's a bit frustrating. Especially when you take the time to do a full defense grid layout to see how your defenders would function. All those champs are now tied up, and time was essentially wasted. If it were just another Off Season, we'd probably just take a few wars off in general. That's not exactly the case here though.

The ugly side of competition is that sometimes your opponent doesn't care about you wanting to give it your all, face a challenging set of placements and whatever you hope to accomplish in the match since those are "you problems". They'd rather finish up EQ or grind more arena.

SiriusBreak

I see, so some of the consensus is, screw everyone. Got it. Sad state of affairs.

Dexman1349 said:

Another idea from the "anything to gain an advantage" pool: why would you want your opposition to learn how to fight against Defense Tactics in the off season? I would foresee some allies purposefully not placing the boss or placing garbage defense in the offseason so the opposition gets less practice.

Is it fair play? debatable. Is it what Kabam wants, probably not. Will alliances do it? most definitely.

All the while they're not getting any insight either if they're not participating so that's really not all that tactically smart IMO. In the end, very weak sauce. It's a new function that's very likely here to stay. If short changing yourself experience in the pursuit of short changing others is tactical thinking, we're definitely heading down a path of dimwitted thought all things considered. If you placed next to nothing and went full tilt boogie attack against someone that did, now that's a bit more tactical. Doing nothing, not so much. That's just laziness in my eyes. Like many things, it is what it is.

Dexman1349

I don't disagree. I'm very much of the mindset that if we sign up to play, then we play. We may scale up/down based on where we're at with seasons but it's only a matter of whether we're using items and pushing for minimal deaths, or if we're in the off-season and just going for the cheaper option trying to boost experience against different paths/nodes.

But I'm also coming from the position of being in a Gold 2 ally and will move to a new ally if I want more challenge/rewards or want to scale back.

SiriusBreak

Dexman1349 said:

I don't disagree. I'm very much of the mindset that if we sign up to play, then we play. We may scale up/down based on where we're at with seasons but it's only a matter of whether we're using items and pushing for minimal deaths, or if we're in the off-season and just going for the cheaper option trying to boost experience against different paths/nodes.

But I'm also coming from the position of being in a Gold 2 ally and will move to a new ally if I want more challenge/rewards or want to scale back.

I get dialing back. 100% and that's all well and good in my eyes. Not throwing away items, not putting up top tier defenders is all well and good! As long as you placed something it's better than what my crew is currently dealing with. I can respect not wanting to go full swing in the off season. So yes, if you sign up to play, at least play a little, lol. Cheers to that @Dexman1349