Act 6 Gates... Removed??

May_The_WayMay_The_Way Posts: 867 ★★★★

I'm not sure if this screenshot is legit or not, as I could not find a link or source to said post anywhere. But if it is, I just want to give Kabam a pat on the back for FINALLY acknowledging their players. I mean, they could've said this months ago, but I'm slow too so I won't complain Lol. Point being, if this is legit, good on you Kabam. You have been making better decisions lately. Please don't let us down again Lol.
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Comments

  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 23,398 ★★★★★
    No. That's a screenshot from the Beta Forum. It refers to 6.3. They have no plans of changing 6.1 and 6.2 at this time.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 3,509 ★★★★★
    edited August 2019
    That screenshot is taken out of context, it is Kabam listing what they took from how players perceived 6.1+ before explaining how they plan to improve on Act 6.3+.


  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 23,398 ★★★★★

    That screenshot is taken out of context, it is Kabam listing what they took from how players perceived 6.1+ before explaining how they plan to improve on Act 6.3+.


    That’s exactly what I got from it. Except now, I actually kind of believe they are trying to improve the content, & not make it a money machine.
    The Gates wewent about money.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,463 Guardian

    No. That's a screenshot from the Beta Forum. It refers to 6.3. They have no plans of changing 6.1 and 6.2 at this time.

    Very true. I doubt 6.1 or 6.2 will be changed to be honest. I’m just glad Kabam finally realized 5*/6* gates are complete BS, offering no benefits whatsoever, only hindering players for no reason.
    Perhaps this is hubris, but this design goal sounds like it echos my "what makes challenges interesting" post from a while ago. The gates take options away which in and of itself is fine, but beyond a certain point you have to start adding new options when you take old ones away or the content shifts from being challenging to being punishing. It looks like they are moving away from nothing but restrictions and towards some restrictions and some novel advantages, so players get at least some pleasure out of working around one restriction by using another advantage.

    It isn't that gates are BS, it is that there has to be a balance between restrictions and advantages to make the challenge non-trivial but also not forced. If you're trying to make people value diverse rosters you can't simply do everything with one single favorite team: there has to be restrictions to prevent that. But those restrictions have to be light enough that there is some other option the player can try: if you trade being able to do everything with anyone to only being able to do it with just a tiny set of options, that's almost as bad. It is kind of like trading "I can do this with my team" to "I can only do this with your team." Both ways mean 95% of the champions become meaningless.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 3,509 ★★★★★

    That screenshot is taken out of context, it is Kabam listing what they took from how players perceived 6.1+ before explaining how they plan to improve on Act 6.3+.


    That’s exactly what I got from it. Except now, I actually kind of believe they are trying to improve the content, & not make it a money machine.
    Cool, the title of the thread lead me to believe otherwise; can’t remove what never was in 6.3 and act 6 gates with 6.2 class gates are not being removed.

    They usually do not improve on existing content but take feedback to build future content. The current iteration of Labs would be an example as Labs have continually evolved over time to become what they are now; you just have to have been playing them for the past 18 months to notice it.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 23,398 ★★★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    That screenshot is taken out of context, it is Kabam listing what they took from how players perceived 6.1+ before explaining how they plan to improve on Act 6.3+.


    That’s exactly what I got from it. Except now, I actually kind of believe they are trying to improve the content, & not make it a money machine.
    The Gates wewent about money.
    Except that Kabam went on to discuss how it felt like people were forced to spend so they can get through the gates. By their own admission, even Kabam felt it was a bit too money grabby.
    They never had much to do with money at all. They may have heard that people felt that way, but that wasn't the purpose of them. They're also not removing them, and that purpose still stands.
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Posts: 989 ★★★★

    ItsDamien said:

    That screenshot is taken out of context, it is Kabam listing what they took from how players perceived 6.1+ before explaining how they plan to improve on Act 6.3+.


    That’s exactly what I got from it. Except now, I actually kind of believe they are trying to improve the content, & not make it a money machine.
    The Gates wewent about money.
    Except that Kabam went on to discuss how it felt like people were forced to spend so they can get through the gates. By their own admission, even Kabam felt it was a bit too money grabby.
    They never had much to do with money at all. They may have heard that people felt that way, but that wasn't the purpose of them. They're also not removing them, and that purpose still stands.
    You may feel like that didn't have much to do with money, but in reality from a business perspective they knew exactly what they were doing when they implemented them in the first place. People were already salty that they couldn't bring in their 4*s even for synergy purposes, but the fact that they added the addition of 5 and 6* Gates ontop, as well as adding the Cavalier title and Crystals after only needing to complete the easier paths once in the first chapter shows they they knew that "adding more opportunities for 5 and 6* heroes" would come at a massive revenue increase for them, since even some of the decent spenders didn't have a roster of 6* that could carry them through the gates easily. This is an easy way for a mobile game company to increase their revenue, there's a whole video explaining how to monetize players that comes from an app developer that you can check out and see if you think any differently after.

    Also in regards to the last part, I never mentioned about them removing them. I think this is a bad move over all, but I can already tell why they won't remove the ones that are currently implemented and it begins with threads titled "compensation". Personally, it gives me less incentive to actually go and try to complete act 6 exploration knowing that the gates will be there, but I'm not Kabams primary focus when it comes to recurrent user spending.
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 2,332 ★★★★★

    That screenshot is taken out of context, it is Kabam listing what they took from how players perceived 6.1+ before explaining how they plan to improve on Act 6.3+.


    That’s exactly what I got from it. Except now, I actually kind of believe they are trying to improve the content, & not make it a money machine.
    Cool, the title of the thread lead me to believe otherwise; can’t remove what never was in 6.3 and act 6 gates with 6.2 class gates are not being removed.

    They usually do not improve on existing content but take feedback to build future content. The current iteration of Labs would be an example as Labs have continually evolved over time to become what they are now; you just have to have been playing them for the past 18 months to notice it.
    They might not intend on removing them at the moment but if they want the content played by a significantly higher percentage of players they might need to reconsider that. With all the big rewards coming from 100% exploration most people aren't going to bother with any of 6.2 past completion if they know that full exploration isn't happening. I won't be entering it again as is and I know a lot of people doing the same.
  • Bear3Bear3 Posts: 996 ★★★
    I liked the fates honestly, forced people to be more creative or further their roster more.. I don’t have a fleet of god tier 6*’s... some you can make more use of than others. I don’t mind them removing them, I felt it posed an interesting challenge to use other champs. Here comes my hate responses I’m sure about how your roster doesn’t yield any benefit blah blah blah.

    🐻
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 3,509 ★★★★★
    zeezee57 said:

    That screenshot is taken out of context, it is Kabam listing what they took from how players perceived 6.1+ before explaining how they plan to improve on Act 6.3+.


    That’s exactly what I got from it. Except now, I actually kind of believe they are trying to improve the content, & not make it a money machine.
    Cool, the title of the thread lead me to believe otherwise; can’t remove what never was in 6.3 and act 6 gates with 6.2 class gates are not being removed.

    They usually do not improve on existing content but take feedback to build future content. The current iteration of Labs would be an example as Labs have continually evolved over time to become what they are now; you just have to have been playing them for the past 18 months to notice it.
    They might not intend on removing them at the moment but if they want the content played by a significantly higher percentage of players they might need to reconsider that. With all the big rewards coming from 100% exploration most people aren't going to bother with any of 6.2 past completion if they know that full exploration isn't happening. I won't be entering it again as is and I know a lot of people doing the same.
    I think the popular strategy with 5.2 was to leave that chapter for last, after the initial clear of the collector, so people could expand their roster/options. People will play it eventually similar to 5.2.

  • Darkness275Darkness275 Posts: 296 ★★
    edited August 2019

    To be fair, they did make an official statement on the private beta forum, & then forwarded to Reddit. I just wouldn’t say they are removing the current gates unless they officially announce it. Let’s stick with what we know, not what might happen.

    That's my point though, they haven't made a direct announcement to the public and whatever is in a beta can and often does change. They haven't even acknowledged whether or not the screenshot is real, I was genuinely wondering how he can make such absolute statements when we don't know anything 100% either way because they haven't actually said anything.

    The screenshot is just that - a screenshot, which they haven't officially/publicly acknowledged yet, so they certainly haven't said "yes we are removing gates" / "no we are not removing gates" / "it's not retroactive, only moving forward." yet he's commenting as if he has some insider knowledge while everyone else is dealing with hypotheticals.

    I was just curious as to his source.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 3,509 ★★★★★
    @Darkness275 They have, but bickering got the thread shut down.


  • Darkness275Darkness275 Posts: 296 ★★
    Ahhh, I missed that thread. Thanks!
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,463 Guardian

    ItsDamien said:

    That screenshot is taken out of context, it is Kabam listing what they took from how players perceived 6.1+ before explaining how they plan to improve on Act 6.3+.


    That’s exactly what I got from it. Except now, I actually kind of believe they are trying to improve the content, & not make it a money machine.
    The Gates wewent about money.
    Except that Kabam went on to discuss how it felt like people were forced to spend so they can get through the gates. By their own admission, even Kabam felt it was a bit too money grabby.
    They never had much to do with money at all. They may have heard that people felt that way, but that wasn't the purpose of them. They're also not removing them, and that purpose still stands.
    I think it is generally unlikely for a developer to alter content like this that has stood for as long as Act 6 has stood, but I don't think you can say that with that level of certainty. The odds of the 5* gate being removed completely from Act 6 seems incredibly unlikely, but I wouldn't say the odds of the 6.2 gates surviving completely unchanged are too low to consider.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 3,509 ★★★★★

    ItsDamien said:

    That screenshot is taken out of context, it is Kabam listing what they took from how players perceived 6.1+ before explaining how they plan to improve on Act 6.3+.


    That’s exactly what I got from it. Except now, I actually kind of believe they are trying to improve the content, & not make it a money machine.
    The Gates wewent about money.
    Except that Kabam went on to discuss how it felt like people were forced to spend so they can get through the gates. By their own admission, even Kabam felt it was a bit too money grabby.
    They never had much to do with money at all. They may have heard that people felt that way, but that wasn't the purpose of them. They're also not removing them, and that purpose still stands.

    Dude, Kabam themselves admitted that their content was pushing too far into that cash grab territory. Whether or not that was the intent is irrelevant, it was made that why & they even admitted it, which I greatly commend... as admitting your wrong is something that takes a lot of guts & something you have obviously never done.
    Where did they admit that? Remember that screenshot is without context from the originating post. The post is addressing how players perceived/received the gates.

  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,463 Guardian

    ItsDamien said:

    That screenshot is taken out of context, it is Kabam listing what they took from how players perceived 6.1+ before explaining how they plan to improve on Act 6.3+.


    That’s exactly what I got from it. Except now, I actually kind of believe they are trying to improve the content, & not make it a money machine.
    The Gates wewent about money.
    Except that Kabam went on to discuss how it felt like people were forced to spend so they can get through the gates. By their own admission, even Kabam felt it was a bit too money grabby.
    They never had much to do with money at all. They may have heard that people felt that way, but that wasn't the purpose of them. They're also not removing them, and that purpose still stands.

    Dude, Kabam themselves admitted that their content was pushing too far into that cash grab territory. Whether or not that was the intent is irrelevant, it was made that why & they even admitted it, which I greatly commend... as admitting your wrong is something that takes a lot of guts & something you have obviously never done.
    Where did they admit that? Remember that screenshot is without context from the originating post. The post is addressing how players perceived/received the gates.

    That is the only reasonable interpretation of the words "created a sense." You don't say that when you think the opinion is universal and justified, you only say that when you acknowledge the opinion exists without making any statement about whether it is valid or not.

    That is in contrast to their statement about paths: "There are too many paths." Not "The many paths created a sense that the map wasn't worth exploring." That is an admission the map design has an objective flaw they are acknowledging.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 3,509 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    ItsDamien said:

    That screenshot is taken out of context, it is Kabam listing what they took from how players perceived 6.1+ before explaining how they plan to improve on Act 6.3+.


    That’s exactly what I got from it. Except now, I actually kind of believe they are trying to improve the content, & not make it a money machine.
    The Gates wewent about money.
    Except that Kabam went on to discuss how it felt like people were forced to spend so they can get through the gates. By their own admission, even Kabam felt it was a bit too money grabby.
    They never had much to do with money at all. They may have heard that people felt that way, but that wasn't the purpose of them. They're also not removing them, and that purpose still stands.

    Dude, Kabam themselves admitted that their content was pushing too far into that cash grab territory. Whether or not that was the intent is irrelevant, it was made that why & they even admitted it, which I greatly commend... as admitting your wrong is something that takes a lot of guts & something you have obviously never done.
    Where did they admit that? Remember that screenshot is without context from the originating post. The post is addressing how players perceived/received the gates.

    That is the only reasonable interpretation of the words "created a sense." You don't say that when you think the opinion is universal and justified, you only say that when you acknowledge the opinion exists without making any statement about whether it is valid or not.

    That is in contrast to their statement about paths: "There are too many paths." Not "The many paths created a sense that the map wasn't worth exploring." That is an admission the map design has an objective flaw they are acknowledging.
    Some content being beyond the reach of many admits pushing into cash grab territory how? Does this mean epic Labs are also cash grab territory?
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,463 Guardian

    DNA3000 said:

    ItsDamien said:

    That screenshot is taken out of context, it is Kabam listing what they took from how players perceived 6.1+ before explaining how they plan to improve on Act 6.3+.


    That’s exactly what I got from it. Except now, I actually kind of believe they are trying to improve the content, & not make it a money machine.
    The Gates wewent about money.
    Except that Kabam went on to discuss how it felt like people were forced to spend so they can get through the gates. By their own admission, even Kabam felt it was a bit too money grabby.
    They never had much to do with money at all. They may have heard that people felt that way, but that wasn't the purpose of them. They're also not removing them, and that purpose still stands.

    Dude, Kabam themselves admitted that their content was pushing too far into that cash grab territory. Whether or not that was the intent is irrelevant, it was made that why & they even admitted it, which I greatly commend... as admitting your wrong is something that takes a lot of guts & something you have obviously never done.
    Where did they admit that? Remember that screenshot is without context from the originating post. The post is addressing how players perceived/received the gates.

    That is the only reasonable interpretation of the words "created a sense." You don't say that when you think the opinion is universal and justified, you only say that when you acknowledge the opinion exists without making any statement about whether it is valid or not.

    That is in contrast to their statement about paths: "There are too many paths." Not "The many paths created a sense that the map wasn't worth exploring." That is an admission the map design has an objective flaw they are acknowledging.
    Some content being beyond the reach of many admits pushing into cash grab territory how? Does this mean epic Labs are also cash grab territory?
    I probably should have said: "I agree with you, the only reasonable interpretation of the words "created a sense" is that they are talking about player perception, not their own (the developers) opinion of the content." I thought that was clear, but reading back I can see how it could have also been interpreted as a counter-reply, not a continuation of the same thought.
  • ThatGuyYouSaw235ThatGuyYouSaw235 Posts: 676 ★★★
    We won Mr Stark
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 3,509 ★★★★★
    edited August 2019

    ItsDamien said:

    That screenshot is taken out of context, it is Kabam listing what they took from how players perceived 6.1+ before explaining how they plan to improve on Act 6.3+.


    That’s exactly what I got from it. Except now, I actually kind of believe they are trying to improve the content, & not make it a money machine.
    The Gates wewent about money.
    Except that Kabam went on to discuss how it felt like people were forced to spend so they can get through the gates. By their own admission, even Kabam felt it was a bit too money grabby.
    They never had much to do with money at all. They may have heard that people felt that way, but that wasn't the purpose of them. They're also not removing them, and that purpose still stands.

    Dude, Kabam themselves admitted that their content was pushing too far into that cash grab territory. Whether or not that was the intent is irrelevant, it was made that why & they even admitted it, which I greatly commend... as admitting your wrong is something that takes a lot of guts & something you have obviously never done.
    Where did they admit that? Remember that screenshot is without context from the originating post. The post is addressing how players perceived/received the gates.

    And they are addressing it accordingly. Why would they stop producing gates unless they agreed that they were unnecessary?
    I’m not sure where Kabam said gates were unnecessary, they said that’s how people perceived them. They can both acknowledge player perception and address that perception to create new content without agreeing they created cash grab content.

    *People are not hip to it yet but class specific boosts which make near impossible defender encounters possible with specific classes achieves similar purposes to that of gates. They both challenge roster and game knowledge.
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