rogues life steal

I use rogue alot, and she isnt broken or anything, but i have often wondered why she doesnt gain health when ending the fight with the life steal part of her sp1. To me it doesnt make sense that she does gain the health that she steals just because the fight is over.

Anybody else noticed the same?

Comments

Ethans8279

Rogue sp1 consists of 3 parts, only the second one steals health. if the opponent has no health left after receiving the second hit from rogue, rogue would not gain health from the opponent.

Kihlgast

We agree that it is the second hit that steals health. So if that hit takes away the last health from an opponent, shouldnt rogue gain that?

Ethans8279

I don't think so, stealing health only occurs after the opponent received the second hit and survived.
"Life Steal deals 27.5% Attack as Direct Damage."

Snizzbar

I agree with OP. Whatever life the opponent has left during the life steal should transfer to her if it's the life steal part of the SP1 that ends the fight

GroundedWisdom

No Champs do. When they knock out the opponent, they knock them out. Same with Guillotine.

Sungj

When rogue's lifesteal does more damage than the opponent's health and kills him instantly the fight ends and there is no time after a fight ends to transfer health since rogue's health gain comes after the damage dealt. Same thing with ghost rider and doctor strange its a bit annoying but I get why it happens

420sam

It's the same thing as with DS if you were using him during his health steal buff. The last hit delivered from him that kills the opponent does not steal health. While it would be a nice change I do not think it is an important one to make for the game team.

GbSarkar

Just a fight mechanic. All health loss and gain stops the moment one of the champ dies. This benefits the player as well: you don't take thorns (or static shock) damage on the last bit of the fight.

Rbvojtik

I haven't had any issues with her life steal. Still has an issue with not gaining power from power gain buffs that she steals. Almost a year now with that "bug."

Renegade_Doggy

Its an issue with all life stealers, not just rogue.

In fairness to OP, I too often wonder why the life steal portion doesn't apply. You are converting enemy life into your own. In many mainstay MMOs (WoW, Rift, Wildstar to name a few) the life steal portion applies the moment the damage is dealt, even if it is an overkill. This is literally the only game in which you can apply the damage, but miss out on the life steal portion of it due to incorrect code.

Its similar to turning while in a car. You put the signal on, turn left, and when your wheel stabilizes the "left turn signal" turns itself off. Here you've put the signal on, turned left, and the car is still flashing for a left turn. Yes, OP has a concern, his car isn't acting the way it should. Much like this lifesteal. If you do the damage, you should get the life.

Timone147

Always bothered me that this happens. Doesn't make sense because life is stolen that results in death. The life that is stolen should go to rogue.

Understand the issue with game mechanics and such but really is a flaw in the character design with how it works currently. Rationally it doesn't make sense for people to die on the second hit of the health doesn't actually go anywhere. But hell what is really rational on the game lol.

420sam

I think what complicates it is that it is life steal and the death blow. All other times for instance let's say we are dealing with Rogue and she steals 900 health, but then you are at the end of the match and you go to hit your s1 uour opponent only has 500 health left. I think instead of taxing the system to make it recognize that there is not a full 900 health to steal it just ignores it. I'm sure it is something they could add or recode into the system, but given that DS and others have been this way for years I think it will never change.

GroundedWisdom

Snizzbar wrote: »

That's what we're saying Web - they don't but they should

First off, my name is not Web. Secondly, you can't steal Health from something that's dead.

GbSarkar wrote: »

Just a fight mechanic. All health loss and gain stops the moment one of the champ dies. This benefits the player as well: you don't take thorns (or static shock) damage on the last bit of the fight.

Glad someone understands my final point. It would require a resequencing to tally Health stolen before the KO Animation runs. Once the Fight ends, it ends.

Snizzbar

First off, repeating yourself makes you sound like a chatbot. Secondly, you're not stealing health from something that's dead. You're stealing from something that's alive to make it dead. Not only do you not listen to yourself - you don't even understand the issue. Why are you even posting?

GroundedWisdom

Being ignorant to me won't promote an argument. When the Fight ends, it ends. The Life is applied after the Special. If the Special ends the Match, it can't be applied because the KO Animation triggers. If the opponent is dead, they can't apply the Health. I will post wherever I choose, thanks.

Snizzbar

You're welcome. Lol. But you still don't get it, and I'd rather have an answer from someone who knows what they're talking about.

Thisguy

Um no. You don't get the health AFTER the special. You get it after the 2nd hit.

Snizzbar

Thisguy wrote: »

Um no. You don't get the health AFTER the special. You get it after the 2nd hit.

Exactly. It happens instantly at the second part, and all I'm saying is that if it kills the opposition then you should get whatever health they had left. No one cares when the KO animation is, the life steal should actually STEAL something.

DNA3000

Renegade_Doggy wrote: »

In fairness to OP, I too often wonder why the life steal portion doesn't apply. You are converting enemy life into your own. In many mainstay MMOs (WoW, Rift, Wildstar to name a few) the life steal portion applies the moment the damage is dealt, even if it is an overkill. This is literally the only game in which you can apply the damage, but miss out on the life steal portion of it due to incorrect code.

Its similar to turning while in a car. You put the signal on, turn left, and when your wheel stabilizes the "left turn signal" turns itself off. Here you've put the signal on, turned left, and the car is still flashing for a left turn. Yes, OP has a concern, his car isn't acting the way it should. Much like this lifesteal. If you do the damage, you should get the life.

1. This is not literally the only game in which similar mechanics work this way. I've played games with a similar limitation at least some of the time. This includes traditional MMOs. It is related to how the mechanic is implemented. If it is implemented as a reverse entity effect, the target cannot generate the return heal if it is dead. I think long ago WoW had this issue until it was changed but my memory is hazy there. City of Heroes definitely had this issue.

Neverwinter Nights used to have this oddity where the reverse could happen: you could life steal more health than the target even had if you did overkill damage.

2. The reason the life steal doesn't work when the target dies is because combat essentially stops the instant one combatant dies as others have mentioned. But the notion that this should be changed because it "should" work even if the target dies opens a can of worms most of which act against the player. For example, why should a bleed on you stop working if the enemy dies? In MCOC it does. If you simply revoke the "stop combat" rule then yes, Rogue and other life stealers will start to heal after the target dies, but a lot of players that manage to win just before dying will start dying when damage continues to affect them for seconds after a fight ends.

Sure, you can ad hoc the game to make the heal work but all detrimental effects on the player stop, but then you are no longer arguing for things to "work as they should" you're just asking for Yet Another Combat Advantage for no specific logical reason.

IAmNotUrMom

Snizzbar wrote: »

Thisguy wrote: »

Um no. You don't get the health AFTER the special. You get it after the 2nd hit.

Exactly. It happens instantly at the second part, and all I'm saying is that if it kills the opposition then you should get whatever health they had left. No one cares when the KO animation is, the life steal should actually STEAL something.

Kabam has confirmed this numerous times in other threads where people thought that this is not a bug. To me the problem is that it would require them to put something into the coding to take whatever remaining health and give it to the attacker instead of using a flat rate. Seems rather tricky.

GroundedWisdom

Thisguy wrote: »

Um no. You don't get the health AFTER the special. You get it after the 2nd hit.

Well, no. In this case, the game determines that the Special is sufficient to KO, and it triggers the Animation before the Life can be applied.

IAmNotUrMom

By the way here is the thread where it is confirmed that it is working the way it is intended:

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/58387#Comment_58387

Maybe make a suggestion for it to be changed, but truly there are way bigger issues to address than this.

GbSarkar

Rbvojtik wrote: »

I haven't had any issues with her life steal. Still has an issue with not gaining power from power gain buffs that she steals. Almost a year now with that "bug."

They fixed that one. She does gain power from power gain now. I tested by stealing Hyperion's power gain. The power gain was almost negligible though. Not even close to Hype's power gain rate. Don't know whether DS's buff works though

DNA3000

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Thisguy wrote: »

Um no. You don't get the health AFTER the special. You get it after the 2nd hit.

Well, no. In this case, the game determines that the Special is sufficient to KO, and it triggers the Animation before the Life can be applied.

Nope. The game treats each hit in the special two as a separate individual thing. I play Rogue constantly and I can say with certainty that if you kill her on the life steal hit you don't get the heal but if the target is still standing you get the heal even if the third hit subsequently kills the target. In fact, it is beautiful when it happens, and I'm sure I'm not the only player that plays Rogue a lot that takes note of when that specific sequence happens.

I always know its going to be a good AQ day when I get that critical life steal and shoot back to full health and then the last punch kills the target. Especially with the class advantage you have in the immunity path.

GroundedWisdom

DNA3000 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Thisguy wrote: »

Um no. You don't get the health AFTER the special. You get it after the 2nd hit.

Well, no. In this case, the game determines that the Special is sufficient to KO, and it triggers the Animation before the Life can be applied.

Nope. The game treats each hit in the special two as a separate individual thing. I play Rogue constantly and I can say with certainty that if you kill her on the life steal hit you don't get the heal but if the target is still standing you get the heal even if the third hit subsequently kills the target. In fact, it is beautiful when it happens, and I'm sure I'm not the only player that plays Rogue a lot that takes note of when that specific sequence happens.

I always know its going to be a good AQ day when I get that critical life steal and shoot back to full health and then the last punch kills the target. Especially with the class advantage you have in the immunity path.

Well, that was my interpretation of what was happening. How is it that the Life Steal doesn't trigger for the KO then? Is it because the target is KO'd before or during the second hit?

DNA3000

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Thisguy wrote: »

Um no. You don't get the health AFTER the special. You get it after the 2nd hit.

Well, no. In this case, the game determines that the Special is sufficient to KO, and it triggers the Animation before the Life can be applied.

Nope. The game treats each hit in the special two as a separate individual thing. I play Rogue constantly and I can say with certainty that if you kill her on the life steal hit you don't get the heal but if the target is still standing you get the heal even if the third hit subsequently kills the target. In fact, it is beautiful when it happens, and I'm sure I'm not the only player that plays Rogue a lot that takes note of when that specific sequence happens.

I always know its going to be a good AQ day when I get that critical life steal and shoot back to full health and then the last punch kills the target. Especially with the class advantage you have in the immunity path.

Well, that was my interpretation of what was happening. How is it that the Life Steal doesn't trigger for the KO then? Is it because the target is KO'd before or during the second hit?

The heal happens after the damage. Nothing in a computer game really happens "simultaneously." There's an order to things. The game code makes it a point algorithmically to freeze all effects the moment either opponent is killed. So if the life stealing hit kills the target the computer first computes the damage, applies that damage to the target, determines the target is dead, and stops right there. Nothing else of a computational nature happens in combat. That's the period at the end of the sentence. The code that would have then applied the heal never happens. It is an "IF DEAD THEN EXIT" in the combat loop. If the target isn't dead, then the heal can actually happen.

It can be more complex than that in real game code of course. But the basic idea is probably something close to this.

GroundedWisdom

Ok. Thanks. I had the same concept, but wrong time it is applied. Either way it makes sense to me. Perhaps not to someone who is depending on the sustainability.

Kabam Miike

Looks like the right answer has been posted in here quite a few times. It is correct that if you KO an enemy with any attack that steals health, you do not regain that health. This has always been the case, but I'm not sure why. This doesn't mean that this might not change in the future though!

Snizzbar

Thanks Mike. Is there any way we could get a definite answer as to why this is the case? It is called Life Steal after all, and it even says "Rogue is healed for 100% of the life stolen" in her description