Corvus against passive armours. Bug ?

_GRINDER__GRINDER_ Posts: 458 ★★★
edited September 10 in Bugs and Known Issues
I was fighting IMIW with a 6* Corvus and although I am seeing armour break on parry my damage isn't going up..ofcourse the armours on IM are passive so I'm thinking it's something to do with the passive armour coz I didn't get the same interaction while fighting the global node ( Red skull ) in map 6 .

Anyone else noticed this? Now is that a bug coz Corvus isn't working how he used to.. he used to remove all the armours off of IMIW and the damage would go up

@Kabam Miike does fixing Medusa's armour issue resolves this well ? Let me know how I can help , I can record and send a video .

Device : Google pixel
Platform : Android 10
Game version : latest from playstore
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Comments

  • JakearoundJakearound Posts: 182 ★★
    Looks like someone just watched KT1’s video on this lol
  • LormifLormif Posts: 3,180 ★★★★
    _GRINDER_ said:

    I have been reporting similar issues since 2 months

    yet no video, and not in the bugs section. I mean you even lack relevant details, such as did you have true damage/true strike on?
  • Mathking13Mathking13 Posts: 661 ★★★
    I have a feeling that it has something to do with True Accuracy/Strike, which ignores all Armor. I think it ignores the effect of negative armor as well... not saying it isn't a bug (I use corvus just like a fair portion of the player base), just explaining why I think it's happening.
  • TheKiryuTheKiryu Posts: 155 ★★★


    There is the vid about the bug.
  • True damage already ignores armor. Uour armor breaks arent suppose to increase the damage
  • LormifLormif Posts: 3,180 ★★★★
    edited September 10
    _GRINDER_ said:

    Lormif said:

    _GRINDER_ said:

    I have been reporting similar issues since 2 months

    yet no video, and not in the bugs section. I mean you even lack relevant details, such as did you have true damage/true strike on?
    You don't need true strike do to damage on armour .. true strike only stops evades ..
    lol, no. Stopping evades is ONE of the many things truestrike does.

    "True Strike allows a Champion to ignore the effects of Armor, Resistances, and Evasion."
    " True Damage ignores all the opponents armor"

    If you have either of these, depending on the PM synergy, armor breaks will not increase damage at all, because your attacks are already ignoring those buffs.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 3,180 ★★★★
    _GRINDER_ said:

    TheKiryu said:



    There is the vid about the bug.

    @Lormif you need to keep off my posts .. please it's a request
    yep he ignored that he had true damage/true strike on, so he was already ignoring all the armor...
  • zeezee57zeezee57 Posts: 1,718 ★★★★
    Check the difference when he's not critting. His true damage already ignores armor, it's why his crits are the same against Emma in diamond form as in telepath. When he's out of crits however there should be some difference in damage with armor breaks opposed to without.
  • TheKiryuTheKiryu Posts: 155 ★★★
    edited September 10



    I’ll just leave this here for all clever working as intended true damage reasons people...
  • LormifLormif Posts: 3,180 ★★★★
    TheKiryu said:




    I’ll just leave this here for all clever working as intended true damage reasons people...

    There is a possible explanation for that as well, and that is that the armor ups are providing more armor then your armor breaks, in this case 2x as much.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 3,180 ★★★★
    _GRINDER_ said:

    Lormif said:

    TheKiryu said:




    I’ll just leave this here for all clever working as intended true damage reasons people...

    There is a possible explanation for that as well, and that is that the armor ups are providing more armor then your armor breaks, in this case 2x as much.
    No. This is exactly what I'm experiencing as well.. ideally the champ if has say 20 armour ups then all armour ups should be armour breaks .. in the above video as well even though we can see the armour breaks we still see passive armour ups .. which was never the case..
    Incorrect number 2. Your statement assumes they are not passives. In the video above you can see that those are passives. He does not automatically remove them, it only removes armor up BUFFS which are not passives.
  • ThatGuy214ThatGuy214 Posts: 193
    I am more concerned with Corvus not removing the passive armor up like he did before update. Which helped in AW when fighting IMIW on an aggressive armor node
  • LormifLormif Posts: 3,180 ★★★★

    I am more concerned with Corvus not removing the passive armor up like he did before update. Which helped in AW when fighting IMIW on an aggressive armor node

    as far as I know he never has. I remember severa months back in the event we had aggressive armor up IMIW and corvus did not remove his stacks either (like in January)
  • MadcatMadcat Posts: 183 ★★
    edited September 10
    Aggressive armor nodes give passive armor effects. Molecular armor give passive armor effects. The game treats them as the same, as can be seen by IMIW gaining power constantly when he has no innate molecular armors but has passive armors generated from the Aggressive armor node and is low on health AND autoblocks with 4+ node generated passives at any point.
  • We'll pass the report on to the rest of the team. Could those of you who have not provide us with the information requested in the forum bug report template, including a description of what you are seeing in the fight, who you were fighting against, and what nodes were active at the time?
  • LormifLormif Posts: 3,180 ★★★★

    We'll pass the report on to the rest of the team. Could those of you who have not provide us with the information requested in the forum bug report template, including a description of what you are seeing in the fight, who you were fighting against, and what nodes were active at the time?

    while you are at it can you tell us if the armor ups are linear or exponential? meaning:
    200 base
    +100=300
    +100=400

    200 base
    +100 = 300
    +150 = 450
    +225= 675?

    If they armor up passives are not meant to be removed and it is exponential then that could explain what is being seen.
  • JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Posts: 155 ★★
    Lormif said:

    TheKiryu said:




    I’ll just leave this here for all clever working as intended true damage reasons people...

    There is a possible explanation for that as well, and that is that the armor ups are providing more armor then your armor breaks, in this case 2x as much.
    This explanation might be sound if the first photo had ZERO armor ups. But the fact that both photos show an equal number of armor ups yet the second photo also shows 52 armor breaks means the second photo should show more damage on the hit. Regardless of what the values are for either the armor ups or the armor breaks.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 2,447 ★★★★

    Lormif said:

    TheKiryu said:




    I’ll just leave this here for all clever working as intended true damage reasons people...

    There is a possible explanation for that as well, and that is that the armor ups are providing more armor then your armor breaks, in this case 2x as much.
    This explanation might be sound if the first photo had ZERO armor ups. But the fact that both photos show an equal number of armor ups yet the second photo also shows 52 armor breaks means the second photo should show more damage on the hit. Regardless of what the values are for either the armor ups or the armor breaks.
    Not necessarily.

    If the armor ups far exceed the diminishing returns cap and the armor breaks do not reduce armor below that cap then the damage would not change.
  • JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Posts: 155 ★★
    edited September 11

    Lormif said:

    TheKiryu said:




    I’ll just leave this here for all clever working as intended true damage reasons people...

    There is a possible explanation for that as well, and that is that the armor ups are providing more armor then your armor breaks, in this case 2x as much.
    This explanation might be sound if the first photo had ZERO armor ups. But the fact that both photos show an equal number of armor ups yet the second photo also shows 52 armor breaks means the second photo should show more damage on the hit. Regardless of what the values are for either the armor ups or the armor breaks.
    Not necessarily.

    If the armor ups far exceed the diminishing returns cap and the armor breaks do not reduce armor below that cap then the damage would not change.
    The term “diminishing returns” means that you can never reach the “cap”. Also, if something can exceed the “cap”, then it’s not a cap. Diminishing returns would imply that the closer you get to the cap, the weaker and weaker the armor ups get so you never reach or exceed the cap. Therefore, if the concept of diminishing returns is applied, as soon as the attacker places just ONE armor break the damage should go up.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 2,447 ★★★★

    Lormif said:

    TheKiryu said:




    I’ll just leave this here for all clever working as intended true damage reasons people...

    There is a possible explanation for that as well, and that is that the armor ups are providing more armor then your armor breaks, in this case 2x as much.
    This explanation might be sound if the first photo had ZERO armor ups. But the fact that both photos show an equal number of armor ups yet the second photo also shows 52 armor breaks means the second photo should show more damage on the hit. Regardless of what the values are for either the armor ups or the armor breaks.
    Not necessarily.

    If the armor ups far exceed the diminishing returns cap and the armor breaks do not reduce armor below that cap then the damage would not change.
    The term “diminishing returns” means that you can never reach the “cap”. Also, if something can exceed the “cap”, then it’s not a cap. Diminishing returns would imply that the closer you get to the cap, the weaker and weaker the armor ups get so you never reach or exceed the cap.
    Rating and % are separate.

    You can cap out % but you can also continue to stack armor rating that does nothing to increase that percentage but still needs to be overcome to reduce armor to a point where it no longer reduces max damage.

    Doing this would mean you could stack armor rating beyond the cap and still have a huge cushion of armor rating that would make armor breaks do nothing to reduce armor rating below the cap.

    Say for instance you reach 1m armor rating you are capped at 99.9%. A 200,000 AB would increase damage received by .25%, which isn’t even going to be noticeable and also impossible to get an armor break that high.

    Corvus’ AB In That photo is ~16k ~88% and that rocket has 1250% armor.

    The reason is that the armor breaks are not armor rating enough to get past the damage reduction cap.
  • JosephPoerioJosephPoerio Posts: 155 ★★
    edited September 11

    Lormif said:

    TheKiryu said:




    I’ll just leave this here for all clever working as intended true damage reasons people...

    There is a possible explanation for that as well, and that is that the armor ups are providing more armor then your armor breaks, in this case 2x as much.
    This explanation might be sound if the first photo had ZERO armor ups. But the fact that both photos show an equal number of armor ups yet the second photo also shows 52 armor breaks means the second photo should show more damage on the hit. Regardless of what the values are for either the armor ups or the armor breaks.
    Not necessarily.

    If the armor ups far exceed the diminishing returns cap and the armor breaks do not reduce armor below that cap then the damage would not change.
    The term “diminishing returns” means that you can never reach the “cap”. Also, if something can exceed the “cap”, then it’s not a cap. Diminishing returns would imply that the closer you get to the cap, the weaker and weaker the armor ups get so you never reach or exceed the cap.
    Rating and % are separate.

    You can cap out % but you can also continue to stack armor rating that does nothing to increase that percentage but still needs to be overcome to reduce armor to a point where it no longer reduces max damage.

    Doing this would mean you could stack armor rating beyond the cap and still have a huge cushion of armor rating that would make armor breaks do nothing to reduce armor rating below the cap.

    Say for instance you reach 1m armor rating you are capped at 99.9%. A 200,000 AB would increase damage received by .25%, which isn’t even going to be noticeable and also impossible to get an armor break that high.

    Corvus’ AB In That photo is ~16k ~88% and that rocket has 1250% armor.

    The reason is that the armor breaks are not armor rating enough to get past the damage reduction cap.
    To say that armor rating can increase infinitely without increasing “percent” makes absolutely no sense. You’re not explaining how you’re getting this percentage or what it relates to. Corvus’ AB in the photo is “~16k” which is “~88%” of what? Please explain how armor rating can increase infinitely without increasing percentage. Also, you mention having 1m armor rating and being at 99.9%, yet you say Rocket has an armor rating of 1250%. Unless you have the exact equation used to calculate diminishing returns on Rockets armor breaks it would be impossible to calculate the actual percentage. It would also be impossible to calculate his armor rating since each armor would get weaker and weaker.

    To simply say armor rating and armor percentage are two different things is ridiculous. If armor rating could increase infinitely and percentage means nothing then that would defeat the purpose of diminishing returns. Kabam uses diminishing returns to avoid this exact scenario.
  • MenkentMenkent Posts: 290 ★★
    Fighting storm in uncollected time after time 3.1

    Non-crit damage for light attack with zero armor breaks: 642
    Non-crit damage for light attack with one armor break: 642
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 2,447 ★★★★
    It’s the first line, rating and % are separate values. Rating is not capped but DR caps/reduces the effectiveness of the % value.

    Diminishing returns doesn’t cap the rating value it caps the percentage value derived from that rating. 2 million rating is the same percentage value as 1 million rating but you need to remove more than 1 million rating from 2 million before anything changes, in that scenario.

    Your rating has no cap but the increase to the % is capped. This allows for rating to go infinitely while leaving % unchanged once % is capped.

    You still have a rating value you need to overcome to impact the % allowing a change to the stat. If you have x rating above the % cap you need to at a minimum reduce that rating to a value that impacts the % cap or you do nothing to affect it.

    The are tools available from which you can convert rating to percentage value.

    Rocket has 50% armor times 25 in that pic; 1250%. CG has 52 ABs at a value of ~320ea(?); for a total of ~16k and after conversion ~88%.

    If rocket has 1250% armor taking 88 from that leaves 1162% armor which is well above the 99.9% cap and why damage remained unchanged.

    Diminishing returns are in place for exactly this type of scenario; when a stat/rating climbs to ridiculously high levels rating will become less effective as it climbs and the % will eventually cap out preventing the stat conversion from ever being 100%+; this is why CG is actually able to do damage at that level of armor.

    At this time I can’t make it any simpler. Your rating is not capped but the formula converting rating to % caps the % effectiveness of that conversion.

    Since your rating is not capped it’s possible to reach a point where you stack so much rating that reducing the rating (which is what AB does) will not change the % value.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 2,447 ★★★★
    Menkent said:

    Fighting storm in uncollected time after time 3.1

    Non-crit damage for light attack with zero armor breaks: 642
    Non-crit damage for light attack with one armor break: 642


    A 6 star rank 2 storm has an armor rating of 525.

    The most powerful Corvus available armor breaks for 370. He ignores armor when he has his true damage/strike buff so reducing armor will not increase damage unless he brings it into the negative. Any armor breaks need to overcome his targets armor rating to increase damage while his true damage is active.

    Try the fight again but this time record the numbers with 2 ABs.
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