This is so easy just make a program for how ever long for testers who can rank and play and collect the data on the champ, make adjustments and then release the champ. If they do it this way the community can stay calm and enjoy the champ the way it was released.
I wouldn't even say Cull outdamages all champs I say he comes head to head with the top champs
Go ahead, compare damage numbers if you're so sure.
What I'm saying is this Considering how long his ramp is and how trash all his other aspects are it makes sense how high is damage is champs like Namor if you can build to 4 fries can perform similar numbers or even nick if you add up the bleed damage, and proxima can deal serious damage as well like Cull is the definition of "Impractical but Fun"
It’s not developers have no clue, it’s they don’t see how these champs will interact with new content until they are released. I honestly think this 3 month period should happen in beta form like when buffs are applied to old champs.
They should not release a champ and have people rank and spend then make the changes.
As someone who also spent to get Namor, Stelthy and Claire in addition to Cull I'm very worried that all that was just for a few months before they're nerfed.
Yeah but they've told you that there'd be rebalancing right? It's on you as to whether you choose to spend the money going forward?
Also don't forget that the good news is champs that aren't up to par like Ebony Maw are going to get a buff as well - so you do get that assurance on the other side of the spectrum.
How can they be more transparent than that?
What you said makes no sense @RagamugginGunner saI'd he spent for champs like Namor and they never announcedid these rebalances until after he came out so how is that fair in any way
I said "going forward".
Still doesn't change the fact that @RagamugginGunner paid for Namor expecting him to work as portrayed but now there is a chance he is gonna get nerfed so where is the transparency there
There'll always be certain champs that fall through the cracks with these things, but the good news is that going forward rebalancing is good for the game overall.
Yeah rebalances are nice if it's actually needed like why does Cull need he has no utility no health and no block proficiency all he has is damage and they are gonna nerf the only thing he is good at for what reason and not even that he has his fair share of counters to like limber,masochism, fisticuffs, etc.
The thing is, without his counters, he simply outputed way too much damage. 50k mediums, 200k sp2s, and 400k sp3s. There's no stopping him if there are no nodes against his abilities.
Actually if you want to be technical, there are more things that counter Cull than Corvus/Ghost, especially Ghost.
Ghost really doesn’t have any counters. Maw? Meh. Safeguard? Maybe.
Cull? Buffet, masochism, fisticuffs, tranquility, limited immunity, (stun) immunity, limber, mighty charge, KP, AV, CB, Rogue and I’m sure there’s plenty of stuff I can’t even think of off the cuff.
If i had a nickel for every time this community overreacted, I'd be richer than Bezos.
This is definitely true. I wont say I'm not concerned but I'm not gonna get worked up until I see what's been changed and what options or "compensation" those with Cull are given.
People act as if cull is going to be hitting as hard as Maw after the nerf but they themselves said he will still be the top damage dealing champ in the game. They must keep their word or else lawsuits will actually start to come in.
I don't care if it's something as trivial as a 10% reduction, slightly shorter rout or fury, less armor breaks, etc.... If they change these things and people with the champion aren't at a minimum given the option to rank them down, it's a serious issue in my opinion.
I think this will have a negative impact on their bottom line. Crystal spending on newly released champs or spending hours in arena makes no sense anymore because they are likely to be adjusted within a few months. Time will tell of course
Kabam is telling all the players：don't spend any money to this game. Whatever the money you spent, even you spent thousands dollars to get the champion you think who is beyond god tier champion, they can change it to trash if they want. I also think what they are doing is breach the agreement between customer and seller. Can you imaging when you bought a fast car, when you come to do service, the dealer tell you they think the car is too fast, they decide to change it to slower?
There is no breach of agreement. One thing people generally fall short on is reading the TOS. You're not buying anything of proprietary value. The game, your Account, and the contents within are property of Kabam. We lease permission to use their product, and they reserve the right to modify it in cases where it's necessary for the game overall. If the game was to fold today, none of us would be able to cash out on our Accounts. It's In-Game Purchases. Not Shares in the company, and not a tangible purchase we can claim ownership for.
You're wrong. When they announced She-Hulk's nerf days before the update, they already broke their tos. Read what I said to DNA3000
They broke their TOS? Care to run that theory by me?
One of the most common unenforceable terms is the unilateral amendment provision, which gives a company the right to change its agreement however it wants, whenever it wants, with or without notifying its customers. Courts have repeatedly found this term unenforceable. Look at companies lost because of this. I work at a large tech company and know a thing or two regarding tos, but like I already mentioned before, I'm not one that likes to sue and never will.
NOTHING has been changed about the TOS concerning this. It's literally been the same for years. They revised it recently and that had nothing to do with reserving the right to modify their product. I'm quite aware. I've been pointing the thing out to people for years. Lol. While I respect the right to spend or not spend, there's no accounting for people who don't take the time to understand what they're spending on. The game even reminds them to familiarize themselves with it.
The problem is kabam created him, fashioned his abilities, and put the numbers in before ever putting it up for purchasing. They knew the amount of damage he could do before we even knew he was coming to the contest. So I have a hard time believing them about having to wait for spreadsheets, and greatly reduces an already diminishing credibility.
The reason everyone is up in arms is because of the amount of time and money spent to them turn around and have to wait for 3 MONTHS to find out if it was wasted.
They have made my decisions easier on whether to spend any more money or not, simply due to always being a lingering question of any champs viability in the future.
They even made 2 dimensional beings this month, and did not label them as such (we don’t have to go back into the weak opposing arguments).
I wouldn't even say Cull outdamages all champs I say he comes head to head with the top champs
Go ahead, compare damage numbers if you're so sure.
What I'm saying is this Considering how long his ramp is and how trash all his other aspects are it makes sense how high is damage is champs like Namor if you can build to 4 fries can perform similar numbers or even nick if you add up the bleed damage, and proxima can deal serious damage as well like Cull is the definition of "Impractical but Fun"
So based on your logic hyperion is impractical because the only utility he has is his poison immunity or weak heal?
What are you even saying anymore
Oh you want to know what I'm saying now? Okay. If you want to complain about one champ I'm gonna bring up a similar champ that is commonly used and widely regarded as a practical champ. Cull obsidian relies on parry and heavy attacks. Well guess who does that too? That's right... Hyperion. Guess who also has below average block proficiency. See where I'm going here? I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the forum community that always gives Kabam the finger whenever they don't get what they want.
Yeah but the last time I checked hyperion has tons of utility while Cull has none at all so your point is invalid and plus Cull is way more of a noodle health wise than hype anyways
Hopefully, Cull's nerf will be akin to Starlord's. Maybe just a cap on the number of armor breaks he can inflict. Not enough to gimp his attack entirely but still enough to put him in line with the highest hitters. Still think it's unnecessary though. All he has is attack, much like Starlord. My biggest problem though is that this ISN'T about balance. There's now way Kabam can claim Cull & Maw's impending adjustments are "balance" motivated and then brush off Ronin like he's the perfect champ.
A Kabam, como sempre fazendo os jogadores gastar pra pegar o campeão, ai vem com esse papo furado de que o campeão esta muito over power. Besta de quem ainda gasta pra pegar Heróis, pois essa estratégia dela ja ta conhecida, ela adiciona o campeão muito forte pra todos gastarem tentando pegar ele, ai quando ela lucra, nerfa o campeão. Kabam mal caráter... Isso deveria ser dado como roubo e enganação dos jogadores!
I wouldn't even say Cull outdamages all champs I say he comes head to head with the top champs
Go ahead, compare damage numbers if you're so sure.
What I'm saying is this Considering how long his ramp is and how trash all his other aspects are it makes sense how high is damage is champs like Namor if you can build to 4 fries can perform similar numbers or even nick if you add up the bleed damage, and proxima can deal serious damage as well like Cull is the definition of "Impractical but Fun"
So based on your logic hyperion is impractical because the only utility he has is his poison immunity or weak heal?
What are you even saying anymore
Oh you want to know what I'm saying now? Okay. If you want to complain about one champ I'm gonna bring up a similar champ that is commonly used and widely regarded as a practical champ. Cull obsidian relies on parry and heavy attacks. Well guess who does that too? That's right... Hyperion. Guess who also has below average block proficiency. See where I'm going here? I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the forum community that always gives Kabam the finger whenever they don't get what they want.
Yeah but the last time I checked hyperion has tons of utility while Cull has none so your point is invalid
I would like to know what utility hyperion has over cull. I'll be waiting...
At this point I don't know if you're joking or not it's actually laughable so you're saying hype has no utility at all? If that's the case you shouldn't even be in this conversation right now as you know nothing about this game
The next two Champions to get the rebalance treatment will be Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw. These balance updates will be limited to the tuning and balancing of a Champion's existing kit, abilities won’t be added or removed.
Ronin:
We’ve taken a look at Ronin’s performance and are happy with his both his performance and his abilities. We will not be making any balance changes to Ronin at this time.
Cull Obsidian:
After looking at our data across all the game modes we have determined that Cull Obsidian is out damaging every other high-damage Champion in the game. While he does have his limiting factors, once he's fully ramped up he is able to end fights before even high-level Opponents can do any meaningful damage to him.
The goal of Cull’s rebalance is to make tuning changes that keeps Cull Obsidian as one of the top damage dealers in-game.
Ebony Maw:
You said it and we saw it in the data. Although Ebony Maw is a decent Defender, he is underperforming as an Attacker (the designer said something about his Degeneration DPS being just sad and wrong).
We are looking to boost both his defensive and offensive potential, but with an emphasis on offense.
Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw’s balance changes should be live in approximately 3 months.
What!? But cull is not that powerfull Like others.... ghost.... captain marvel (new)..... hey not nerf these others too? I just take him to Rank 5.... and now all my effort and resources un vain....
The problem is this negatively affects players and has been ill-defined. Out-damaging high damage champs is in itself meaningless. "Too much" is arbitrary. People have every right to question this proposed move and be upset. The damages shown in videos here or listed in comments fail to include the circumstances under which the numbers are seen and why those values are game breaking in that context. Are far as things being anecdotal, that is sadly what this community is limited to since we don't have access to the data kabam is saying they're using. This is the same group that used data to suggest classic cyclops as one of the most effective aq champs after all. I personally find this potential change unnecessary and have yet to see anything presented here by kabam or anyone else as game-breaking. Why shouldn't a high-damage champ be able to get through some paths in act 6 with synergies? Take down a boss with incoming boosted damage buffs? Where's the line of compromise between utility and damage output? So what if cull can make it a few paths easier than other champs? The vast majority of clears in content I see happen with the likes of corvus, ghost, omega. Unsubstantiated claims and changes should be addressed
at this point in the game, when they are in the basic, we should be able to safely decide that we are / are not going to invest resources in specific champions.
It seems silly, but I'm starting to think that Kabam needs to provide a warning every time a player buys an offer, exchanges for a crystal, awakens or ranks a champion, or spends any money or currency on anything, that the game is subject to change at any time for balance, implementation, or any other reason, and the player should not take any action predicated on the assumption that the game won't change, because it will.
Because there is no safe time to invest in resources. You are required to agree there is no safe time to invest resources. If you do not agree, and believe the players deserve to have a guarantee of safe periods to invest resources, you're legally not allowed to play the game.
If this is something you feel you need, that's fine. Everyone needs different things from their entertainment. You shouldn't feel compelled to change your mind. But the EULA for the game you play requires you to agree. The EULA cannot force you to agree. But it prohibits you from playing the game if you don't agree.
Or here’s a novel idea: test your stuff before you sell it. Play your own game. And if even moderately testing content is too onerous, then provide a liberal return/refund policy and stop treating the community with condescension.
Dr. Zola
You say "or" as if this contradicts what I said. It does not. I'm not saying there isn't lots of room for improvement, but the absolute best game development team with the absolute best respec policy a game can sustain is still not going to provide the poster I was replying to with "safety." There will still be the possibility of future game balance changes that won't be compensated for, because there's no way to prevent completely future balancing changes, and there's no way to completely allow do-overs for every little change in a sustainable way. I don't think most players even understand what the real danger of RDTs even is in this game, even when used sparingly, much less making it the go-to answer for all future game changes.
You can do everything you're mentioning, and still not be safe. Safe from game changes is impossible. And I'm willing to be proven wrong, if someone can find a game that adheres to your two principles of test so mistakes never happen and games never need balancing, and/or compensate for every change to the extent players demand in all cases.
At the end of the day, if you think safety is possible, I doubt I could convince you otherwise. However, absent a very persuasive argument, at the end of the day I believe we doom any attempt to improve matters when we make the ultimate goal an impossible task.
Comments
What’s so hard about this?
They should not release a champ and have people rank and spend then make the changes.
Ghost really doesn’t have any counters. Maw? Meh. Safeguard? Maybe.
Cull? Buffet, masochism, fisticuffs, tranquility, limited immunity, (stun) immunity, limber, mighty charge, KP, AV, CB, Rogue and I’m sure there’s plenty of stuff I can’t even think of off the cuff.
So who really needs the adjustment?
The reason everyone is up in arms is because of the amount of time and money spent to them turn around and have to wait for 3 MONTHS to find out if it was wasted.
They have made my decisions easier on whether to spend any more money or not, simply due to always being a lingering question of any champs viability in the future.
They even made 2 dimensional beings this month, and did not label them as such (we don’t have to go back into the weak opposing arguments).
Still think it's unnecessary though. All he has is attack, much like Starlord.
My biggest problem though is that this ISN'T about balance. There's now way Kabam can claim Cull & Maw's impending adjustments are "balance" motivated and then brush off Ronin like he's the perfect champ.
You can do everything you're mentioning, and still not be safe. Safe from game changes is impossible. And I'm willing to be proven wrong, if someone can find a game that adheres to your two principles of test so mistakes never happen and games never need balancing, and/or compensate for every change to the extent players demand in all cases.
At the end of the day, if you think safety is possible, I doubt I could convince you otherwise. However, absent a very persuasive argument, at the end of the day I believe we doom any attempt to improve matters when we make the ultimate goal an impossible task.