Why don't you improve lame champs?

For every Voodoo and Arch Angel you get even more Luke Cages and Spider gwens. Do you have two distinct different design teams working there? One team that actually puts effort into hero design delivering heroes like Ghost Rider where each special delivers a unique effect..... and another team that is uber lazy and delivers Luke Cage who goes indestructible only ONE time in a fight and last for a few seconds and nothing else...

Your team obviously has the ABILITY to create good heroes, so why give us such lazy, no-brainer heroes??

Come on lets step it up since you have proven you can.

Comments

SlyCat42

While I wouldn't have said it in the same way it (you were kind of insulting), there are a specific class of characters that need updating.

That class is the defensive walls of this game. They are pretty much all bad.

Why? Because they don't serve their purpose. On normal questing you just want damage, in AQ you want damage + immunities, so that leaves AW. In AW defensive walls are worse than hard hitting characters with mechanics that are difficult to fight around like stun immunity and evasion and MD.

So, where does that leave Hulk Buster, Colossus, Luke Cage, pretty much all of the Iron men, and the like?

They don't fit anywhere in the game right now. Ideally there needs to be some masteries that really benefit tanks and some reason to use them over some other utility champion like Spiderman or Magik.

I would argue though that they don't need to be really complicated to do their job well. We don't need characters that are constantly tracking a dozen buffs, but some older characters could definitely use some more inspired designs. They were fine when the game was new, but everything has become a lot more complex since then.

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andrade5184

i agree there are alot of champs that need reworked to bring better balance to the game. my main problem is champs that could be good are not simply because of there damage out put. for example luke cage, loki, king groot, pheonix, cap america, she hulk, war machine, civil warrior these are all champs that could be great if there damage out put was the same as the top tier champs. it just sucks cause ive been playing this game a long time as well as spent quite a bit of money and i keep getting let down especially from my 5* hero crystals which take so long to get. why are u realeasing all the bad champs first so they are just overwhelmed in the 5* Crystal. all im saying is make the champs better so we have more options because it sucks the fun outta this game when you constantly get a bad pull it makes us want to just give up and move on. also you guys did a great job when you reworked winter soldier, punisher and hulk now lets see some of that accross the board

roastedbagel

They need crappy Champs to balance out the good ones. Nobody likes getting a Luke Cage but he's necessary to the overall balance. If every champ was like Voodoo everybody would have end game content completed already.

It also makes getting the good Champs all the more fun.

Stop with the "blah blah there's two teams creating Champs" garbage, there's one game team and they oversee all Champs introduced - there just has to be balance. No game in history had every playable character top notch. Think back to the days of Gauntlet. There's always a crappy character nobody likes.

Jon8299

There are too many bugs as is. Some months back I had Dr. Strange looking in the wrong direction and on the ground below SIM while taking Supr. Iron Mans 3rd Special. The beam was going down to the ground as well.

Imagine the game if they started updating 5 champs a month with the bugs that are happening now. There's the evade bug, power burn/steal bug, we don't need heavy bugs or more special attack bugs.

Someones heavy attack turning your champ backwards and not being able to fight would anger people.

I want old champs buffed too. Let's just wait till they fix the bugs in the game first.

GroundedWisdom

First of all, "lame" is subjective, and it's based on preference. You may not like using some Champs, but others do. The only reason people don't like them is because the majority are using the most wanted Champs. Mainly the newer ones. Which brings me to the greater point. There is only one design team, and they created Champs at different times. People generally prefer the newer ones because they're new. Back then, Luke Cage was new. Everyone wanted him. At one time, Gwen was rare. The problem is people get so set in using the same few Champs because everyone else is, and the comparison makes the others look "lame". Champs have a variety of uses, and they can't always redo the older ones to keep up with the new ones. In a game that adds 2-3 Champs a month, that process would never end.

andrade5184

you guys are missing the point im not even saying the champs need to be changed but the damage needs to be more consistent across the board to make those champs that suck better. cause if we are all honest we would say the real reasont these champs suck is cause it takes forever to win a fight with them cause they hit like a pillow

GroundedWisdom

andrade5184 wrote: »

you guys are missing the point im not even saying the champs need to be changed but the damage needs to be more consistent across the board to make those champs that suck better. cause if we are all honest we would say the real reasont these champs suck is cause it takes forever to win a fight with them cause they hit like a pillow

It's about balance. If a Champ has strong Defense capabilities like LC, they're probably not going to have huge Damage. Generally, anyway. As for SG, I would have to disagree with that one. Aside from the fact that her L1 does no Damage, she hits hard with a few Armor Breaks stacked and a Heavy or an L2. I can take down some pretty tough Champs with my R3 Duped.

Jon8299

Well here's the problem. Luke Cage should have a great damage output to most champs in the game. Basically anyone who's not a monster or alien or God. What would help him is if they gave him Armor Breaks and if his Exhaustion reduced ability accuracy. That would make him better. Maybe give him stacks of "Idestructible" which you can activate in some way, similar to Miles evade stacks.

GroundedWisdom

Jon8299 wrote: »

Well here's the problem. Luke Cage should have a great damage output to most champs in the game. Basically anyone who's not a monster or alien or God. What would help him is if they gave him Armor Breaks and if his Exhaustion reduced ability accuracy. That would makr him better. Maybe give him stacks of "Idestructible" which you can activate in some way, similar to Miles evade stacks.

So you want to make him OP.

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Jon8299

No, it would probably be 2 or 3 stacks for 2 seconds.

GroundedWisdom

Jon8299 wrote: »

No, it would probably be 2 or 3 stacks for 2 seconds.

If you give him Armor Break, Reduction, and stackable Indestructible, that would make him OP.

andrade5184

i personally like luke cage chain stun and he can eat an entire sp3 and take 0 damage there is a lot of areas in the game he could be beneficial but at the end of the day he still hits like a pillow so he sucks. dont even get me started on loki that guy is so weak and makes no sense good thing i duped him multiple times as a 5* and 4* so he can just warm my bench

GroundedWisdom

Go_Grems wrote: »

Not true. Old champs are not "lame" by the simple fact they are old. Star Lord is old, SW is old, and so on and so on. It is not just new champs. Look at Carnage... New AND lame. I am not expecting everyone to be a top tier champ. Just why make so many hero so pathetic and quite blatantly not even try. With a little effort every hero could have something unique and worthwhile. For example, put Luke's indestructible on a timer or activate after a special, etc. Could this be done? Sure just look at Hyp, Hood, and many others. All this points out is the team is just completely lazy. Either that or it truly is part of the plan to create useless champs for the simple fact of being useless. It doesn't balance the game because we are not forced as players to use every hero, hence there is no balancing in effect. So there is no purpose for creating such lame heroes. I would prefer to believe that the team is not stupid and therefore do not subscribe to the nonsense that is "balancing". Instead I believe they are simply lazy. They just pass the buck with a cookie cutter lame ol hero.

Based on your opinion and extensive knowledge on overall game balance, you've determined that they are "lazy" when it comes to buffing every Champ you yourself have deemed "lame". Interesting.

Jon8299

Well no one likes his damage output, armor breaks aren't what they used to be. They could be small ones.

Exhaustion would not reduce Ability Accuracy by 100%. For him maybe 50% works for 4 seconds maybe.

Juggernaut and Unstoppable Colossus have Unstoppable with each special and they aren't OP, are they? Rhino has Unstoppable and Unblockable so Luke Cage should have something similar. His Sig ability is underwhelming.

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Jon8299

There are just too many bugs at the moment. We don't need more of them.

Nobody wants Luke Cage to show up to a fight with no pants on.

andrade5184

DNA3000

The developers do not set out to make a champion that sucks. They aim to make them all reasonably different and interesting as the development schedule permits. Sometimes the champion ends up better, sometimes worse, and often the question is less a question of the absolute value of the champion but the relative value assigned by the players which can change over time. For example, even after Magik was updated the most common opinion expressed was that she was a good defender but only a mediocre attacker. It took time for people to advocate for and then convince people that power control was an extremely valuable capability.

The fact is, whether champions are top tier or "horrid" is not an objective statement. People change their minds, sometimes. The playerbase itself is not in completely agreement on how valuable different champions are. Dr. Strange comes to mind where I have strong evidence that the vocal opinion is that he's worthless, but the majority of players of the game, most of whom do not post on the forums, disagree.

If you start with the assumption that some champs are great and some suck and everyone agrees which is which and the developers did that deliberately, the development of this game will be a great mystery to you that no one will be able to resolve.

GroundedWisdom

Your definition of balance is not in sync with the situation. Game balance is not about having a certain number of "good" to "bad" Champs. The game team doesn't likely think in terms of that. Each Champ represents hours and months of work. You would be scarce to convince me that they consider any Champ bad. Balance in terms of Champs refers to each individual Champ having a unique set of Abilities and attributes, while still remaining balanced as a part of the whole. Changes to Champs are not done lightly because each Champ has an effect on the whole. Even the most preferred Champs only have one or two uniquely distinguishing qualities, and it just so happens they are applicable to certain Tiers in certain areas of the game. The fact is, whether people like to use them or not, or whether or not they are used at the Top Tier, every single Champ has some kind of unique use. Even the ones that feel like reskins have something unique to them. The idea of a God Tier is created by Players. It's based on popular use. The former God Tier no longer exists, and we do not have one as such. The Champs that people prefer to use are not OP in the sense it was. Which leaves popular opinion, and as long as the game operates and human beings play it, there will always be some Champs people prefer to use over others. That does not make the remainder overall useless because that's always relative to the use. It does not take a little effort. It takes hours and hours of work, and each change has an effect on the whole.

Cuteshelf

roastedbagel wrote: »

They need crappy Champs to balance out the good ones. Nobody likes getting a Luke Cage but he's necessary to the overall balance. If every champ was like Voodoo everybody would have end game content completed already.

It also makes getting the good Champs all the more fun.

Stop with the "blah blah there's two teams creating Champs" garbage, there's one game team and they oversee all Champs introduced - there just has to be balance. No game in history had every playable character top notch. Think back to the days of Gauntlet. There's always a crappy character nobody likes.

That's rubbish.

Have you played overwatch? Every champ has a purpose and use. And if one falls behind, due to the game evolving they get updated pretty quick smart.

If kabam can't give every champion a use in a portion of the game, then it's just bad design, and they need to consider releasing less champions per month if they don't have time to make decent ones and test them properly before release.

Jon8299

I agree they release champs to fast. They need to make content for everyone. Look at Chloes for instance you get a bonus for Female champs.

Why not do something similar for certain classes? Buff some champs of each class and release class specific content. Something where people go, Abomination wrecked in this event. Or Iron Patriot was my go to for this event. That would make the game fun if there were better champs overall and content for them.

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A_Noob_Is1

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

andrade5184 wrote: »

you guys are missing the point im not even saying the champs need to be changed but the damage needs to be more consistent across the board to make those champs that suck better. cause if we are all honest we would say the real reasont these champs suck is cause it takes forever to win a fight with them cause they hit like a pillow

It's about balance. If a Champ has strong Defense capabilities like LC, they're probably not going to have huge Damage. Generally, anyway. As for SG, I would have to disagree with that one. Aside from the fact that her L1 does no Damage, she hits hard with a few Armor Breaks stacked and a Heavy or an L2. I can take down some pretty tough Champs with my R3 Duped.

ever heard of hyperion. The guy with strong defense capabilities and ridiculous damage...

DrZola

Cuteshelf wrote: »

roastedbagel wrote: »

They need crappy Champs to balance out the good ones. Nobody likes getting a Luke Cage but he's necessary to the overall balance. If every champ was like Voodoo everybody would have end game content completed already.

It also makes getting the good Champs all the more fun.

Stop with the "blah blah there's two teams creating Champs" garbage, there's one game team and they oversee all Champs introduced - there just has to be balance. No game in history had every playable character top notch. Think back to the days of Gauntlet. There's always a crappy character nobody likes.

That's rubbish.

Have you played overwatch? Every champ has a purpose and use. And if one falls behind, due to the game evolving they get updated pretty quick smart.

If kabam can't give every champion a use in a portion of the game, then it's just bad design, and they need to consider releasing less champions per month if they don't have time to make decent ones and test them properly before release.

I agree with your last point--designing champs that really don't shine in at least one aspect of the game implies a disconnect with the game and gameplay itself. What's the reason for Carnage? I cannot give you one, other than that he looks cool. And he's not the only example...

There was a point in time when certain champs gave advantages like zero damage block, and those champs were not on anyone's god-tier list. You wanted them because they were able to make other champs better.

While I'm not advocating a return to that time, one of the simplest ways to boost existing champs is to actually make a concerted effort to devise synergies that work and require the gamer to strategize about what champs to include on a team (and don't get me started on the impact of DRS/Challenger Rating on the ability to use synergies to drive champ abilities--DRS/Challenger Rating has severely limited the utility of synergies in game ). That sort of strategizing really doesn't exist except at a very, very rudimentary level (crit team/crit damage team/attack team). As one example, you should be able to add 3-4 #Tank champs to an AW defense team and have some kind of damage reduction synergy beyond the limited ones in game--or be able to add other champs linked with their #'s to create innovative synergies in game beyond the bland ones available now.

The game has been around over 2 years. Obviously, it is highly successful but that doesn't excuse what looks like design laziness to the gamer. They've had plenty of time to figure out what works and what doesn't, and it appears they simply don't want to bother with it.

Dr. Zola

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HoidCosmere

Go_Grems wrote: »

Perhaps a tad abrasive, will give you that.

I am not necessarily referring to a specific class because even within that class you have drastic contrasts. Even IM is a step above with a decent regen. But heroes like LUKE CAGE truly bring no value and appear to have no thought put into them. How can they justify giving a Voodoo so many unique capabilities and for Luke Cage the extent is... a chance at stun and 7 secs of indestructible if duped, and only once per fight. I can go on but it is clear. Obvious effort versus lackluster attempt.

Luke Cage should trigger the indestructible the same way Unstpl Colossus triggers his unstoppable. Triggers after every special attack, but does not stack. He will instantly become useful as you can spam special ones to prevent damage and put him on a special one bias in war and without a good power control champ he will time out a lot of players simply from how long it will take to get him down.

HoidCosmere

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

andrade5184 wrote: »

you guys are missing the point im not even saying the champs need to be changed but the damage needs to be more consistent across the board to make those champs that suck better. cause if we are all honest we would say the real reasont these champs suck is cause it takes forever to win a fight with them cause they hit like a pillow

It's about balance. If a Champ has strong Defense capabilities like LC, they're probably not going to have huge Damage. Generally, anyway. As for SG, I would have to disagree with that one. Aside from the fact that her L1 does no Damage, she hits hard with a few Armor Breaks stacked and a Heavy or an L2. I can take down some pretty tough Champs with my R3 Duped.

I thought I was the only one that liked Spidergwen. If they made that special one even land a single hit as she flips back, most of the complaints about her would go away.

neb

Any champ that has no use should be looked at. If you're fine with only a handful of champs being usable at a high level then more power to you. That however is the opposite of balance. Allowing players to use champs they like instead of forcing them to use a very small group isn't good design. It's just boring. Guess who's on the left side path? Nc! Spidey! When's the last time you saw an aw boss that wasn't a mystic? I don't understand why anyone wants the same war, every war. I can only assume they don't like change or they just can't adapt.