CG, PM, Maws are Villains

The Thanos’ Army tag needs to be removed and changed to “villain”. The fact that these champs were villains in Avengers IW and Endgame was basically the whole plot of the movies. In the daily quest Alternate Reality we need the champs as villains!

Comments

RoninMan

Another day, another Doug.

Addyos

You're new to the forums, are you?

ItsDamien

A Villain is just a Hero of the other side.

Fictionplane

If something is a subset of villain it should work for villain only content

Kabam Miike

Endgame did not happen in The Contest of Champions. This universe is not a reflection of that in films or Comics, but is heavily influenced by them. The Battelrealm has its own rules, and versions of Champions.

HSenpai

With a little skill u don’t need corvus or cull for the daily challenges

Eb0ny-O-M4w

They are not villains. In the game.

Fictionplane

what I hear mike saying is Kabam has a blank check to manipulate the characters we know and love to make the game profitable. I feel like this game no longer captures what we love about marvel (no 5* wolverine, bad iron man, bad captain America, bad hulk). The new (obscure) champs come out and are worlds better than the avengers? People whale out to collect them, rank them up, then they nerf them. I don’t think it’s morally responsible and it doesn’t honor people’s love of the comics.

Lormif

what I hear mike saying is Kabam has a blank check to manipulate the characters we know and love to make the game profitable. I feel like this game no longer captures what we love about marvel (no 5* wolverine, bad iron man, bad captain America, bad hulk). The new (obscure) champs come out and are worlds better than the avengers? People whale out to collect them, rank them up, then they nerf them. I don’t think it’s morally responsible and it doesn’t honor people’s love of the comics.

Actually the champs have input from marvel who has the final say. also cap iw and hulk rags are some of the best champs in the game. also only one major nerf in over 2 years.

Fictionplane

I get that it’s a business and I’m sure Disney doesn’t care if the bad guy from Antman and the Wasp is 100 times better than OG iron man, but the fans care. We don’t want some obscure versions of the avengers to be great, we want them to be.

Thesurvivlist

The Thanos’ Army tag needs to be removed and changed to “villain”. The fact that these champs were villains in Avengers IW and Endgame was basically the whole plot of the movies. In the daily quest Alternate Reality we need the champs as villains!

They are not villians as they only work for Thanos kinda like how an army works for an nation

Demonzfyre

what I hear mike saying is Kabam has a blank check to manipulate the characters we know and love to make the game profitable. I feel like this game no longer captures what we love about marvel (no 5* wolverine, bad iron man, bad captain America, bad hulk). The new (obscure) champs come out and are worlds better than the avengers? People whale out to collect them, rank them up, then they nerf them. I don’t think it’s morally responsible and it doesn’t honor people’s love of the comics.

If you loved the comics, you'd be a fan of the obscure champs theyve brought in. Night Thrasher wasnt someone I've ever heard of but after they did, I read up on his story. Pretty cool character.

Before endgame the movie, did you really know who Corvus Glaive, Cull, Maw and Proxima were? They aren't classic characters amd weren't part of the original infinity gauntlet series. The black order wasnt introduced until 2013. So technically the black order are new and obscure only made famous by the movies.

The game has the classic characters we know and love even more so now that the Fantasic Four have joined.

The newer champs are what keeps Marvel going as they provide fresh stories and new looks. New characters are good for the comic book world.

Also I'm not sure how not having Wolverine as a 5* doesn't capture what you love about Marvel. Hes a character and in the Marvel universe, doesn't have a star level.

If you are a true lover of the comics, you'd be happy having as many characters from Marvel to play.

SummonerNR

Assuming the crux of this issue is whether the Thanos Army group should be available for the Alt. Reality side-quests...

There are several other champs that do NOT have either Hero or Villain Tag also. But some of these are available, and some are not. Most of these others have the Mercenary tag (but NOT Hero or Villain), although even others might indeed have both Mercenary AND Hero but I will not focus on those (just the ones that are NOT Hero/Villain).

After checking 3 of the 4 days so far...
*LukeCage, OG Black Widow, Elektra, and Winter Soldier ARE available during Hero day.
But...
*Moon Knight, Masacre, Sabertooth, Deadpool (XForce, not sure of rare OG DP), and Champion (who is the only one of these without Mercenary either) are all NOT available as either Hero or Villain (tested from Hero/Villain day’s or the 3-day Villain Use Event).

Think I saw some others without Hero/Villain, but forget who.

Of those 4 above that ARE considered Hero, doesn’t seem to be dependent on whether they also have Defenders tag or not (some do, some don’t, and WS doesn’t have any other potentially identifying Tag other than Mercenary). It may seem obvious that those get treated as Hero (especially BW), but technically they don’t have the Hero Tag, so is it some other “internal” status that lets them be used for Hero events ??

unknown

This content has been removed.

Zverce

They are not villains. In the game.

They are not villains in the MCU either...

DNA3000

what I hear mike saying is Kabam has a blank check to manipulate the characters we know and love to make the game profitable. I feel like this game no longer captures what we love about marvel (no 5* wolverine, bad iron man, bad captain America, bad hulk). The new (obscure) champs come out and are worlds better than the avengers? People whale out to collect them, rank them up, then they nerf them. I don’t think it’s morally responsible and it doesn’t honor people’s love of the comics.

People keep saying this as if there's "the comics" and "the game" which is supposed to give players "the comics" in game form. No Marvel comic book fan should think this way. The Marvel comics stories exist in a self-described multiverse of different realities, each one of them differing from each other in small or large ways. The Marvel Cinematic Universe borrows from "the comics" but borrows from different multiversal realities within all of the comics. The MCU Nick Fury borrows from the Ultimates universe for example, not the main Marvel continuity. The MCU is its own thing, borrowing from and inspired by the sum total of all the comics, but not beholden to any part of it specifically.

The game is also its own thing. Battlerealm is not a planet in the main Marvel universe, it is its own reality no different from the Ultimates universe in Marvel comics. If the MCOC reality is "morally irresponsible" and doesn't "honor people's love of the comics" then neither does the Ultimates line of comics, and neither does the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

And the blame rests with Marvel. Marvel has ultimate editorial control over what happens with its IP, and Kabam works with Marvel to create the champions that exist in the game whether they borrow from existing Marvel characters or are original creations for the game. Champions created just for the game are Marvel characters that exist within the Marvel multiverse, no different than any other Marvel character created by a comic book writer.

Fictionplane

A fictional character only has the meaning that we ascribe to it. If a kid asks me “can I play as The Hulk in your game?” and I say “yes” there is a common ground understanding of what “The Hulk” is in the discourse of the characteristics of his fictional personhood. There would be a (false) understanding between us that we were talking about one of the strongest entities in the MCU.

Kabam has made the choice to make the characters they advertise in their promotional videos look exactly like the characters in the movies, don’t blame me for wanting them to act like them.

Demonzfyre

A fictional character only has the meaning that we ascribe to it. If a kid asks me “can I play as The Hulk in your game?” and I say “yes” there is a common ground understanding of what “The Hulk” is in the discourse of the characteristics of his fictional personhood. There would be a (false) understanding between us that we were talking about one of the strongest entities in the MCU.

Kabam has made the choice to make the characters they advertise in their promotional videos look exactly like the characters in the movies, don’t blame me for wanting them to act like them.

Hence the reason Miike said the movies heavily influence some of the games characters. But why do you insist on just comparing the MCU to MCOC. The MCU doesn't exist without Marvel Comics.

Sentry is arguably one of the most powerful characters in the comics with "the power of a billion suns". If they made every character true to comic cannon, there wouldn't be any balance. Captain America would take forver to knock out, Hulk could smash everything, Wolverine would be cutting people in half, Jean Grey could melt everyone as Pheonix or Iceman could freeze everyone to death.

Point is, MCOC borrows from different sources to fit into what the game represents.

Xakren

The Thanos’ Army tag needs to be removed and changed to “villain”. The fact that these champs were villains in Avengers IW and Endgame was basically the whole plot of the movies. In the daily quest Alternate Reality we need the champs as villains!

Soldiers are not by title evil. This post is disrespectful. You don't know them.

DNA3000

A fictional character only has the meaning that we ascribe to it. If a kid asks me “can I play as The Hulk in your game?” and I say “yes” there is a common ground understanding of what “The Hulk” is in the discourse of the characteristics of his fictional personhood. There would be a (false) understanding between us that we were talking about one of the strongest entities in the MCU.

Kabam has made the choice to make the characters they advertise in their promotional videos look exactly like the characters in the movies, don’t blame me for wanting them to act like them.

If a hypothetical kid expected to automatically be one of the strongest entities in a fighting game just because of what they can do in a movie or comic book, I would wonder how old this hypothetical kid we were talking about was. This is an expectation I would have grown out of by the time I was about seven.

You say this game no longer captures what "we" love about Marvel. What *I* love about Marvel comics is the diversity in them, and the fact that the universe they encompass is infinitely extensible. The Marvel Cinematic Universe is practically a miracle: it is inspired by but not beholden to the comic books and is much better for it. And yet, I don't have to consider the MCU to be a separate thing; the MCU is an extension of the comic book universe, not a **** stepchild of it. It is an equal reality component of the greater Marvel universe. It is equally "real."

There are people talking about Into the Spiderverse opening the door to the possibility that we could see incarnations of Spiderman existing in the same greater multiverse with not only comic book iterations of Spiderman but even prior Sony movie versions of Spiderman. This only happens if you allow people to extend the property, and the alternate reality device simultaneously allows writers the creative license to create something new while nevertheless connecting it to the whole in a non-trivial way.

Somehow, I have a feeling that most "kids" aren't leaving theaters disappointed that the movie versions of characters they read about in comic books isn't identical to them, and aren't disappointed that the versions of those characters in the games they play aren't exactly identical either. I think kids are more sophisticated than you're giving them credit for. But if *you* want to play a game where Daredevil only fights street crime while the Silver Surfer fights cosmic villains, well, this game isn't that. Nor do I really want it to be.

Fictionplane

I’m not sure why everyone is so quick to dismiss the relationship btw the in-game characters and the movie characters they were based on. If there were no marvel moves this game would have vastly fewer players and maybe would not have gotten off the ground at all. I don’t think I’m being unreasonable to expect the in-game characters to be a reflection of the movie characters.

I read the above comment when Mike said they weren’t a reflection, but I disagree. The champs have mostly been released side by side with the movies and have been a marketing tool for them.

In my opinion hulk rag. represents a small blip in time where hulk was held captive and was forced to fight in the arena. Why should that be better than OG hulk? It makes no logical sense to me. The random pile of garbage gear spidey got in Far From Home created the champ stealth suit spidey. Why does he have to be better than OG spidey?

I’m not expecting all the oldest champs to be buffed and become god-tier, I would just find the game more fun if the in-game abilities of beloved characters better represented their perceived abilities.

Dttp

At least Kabam should fix the tyranny node where corvus, merc... champs work inconsistency.

CoatHang3r

IMO two words would easily negate all arguments, artistic license.

Fictionplane

IMO two words would easily negate all arguments, artistic license.

And, you just killed Han Solo... how does it feel?

GroundedWisdom

The game is loosely based on Comics and Movies, but it's an entity all on it's own. It's impossible to be a complete reflection of those. How would a BW smash a Hulk? How would Phoenix ever die? It's a game filled with Villains and Superheroes (not to be confused with Tags), that fight each other to a K.O. Fact goes out the window with an even possibility of each side winning.
For the record, the Characters in question are not the actual Villains. They're following orders from Thanos. If he instructed them to pet kittens, they'd do it. Their purpose is to serve his purpose.

TheBestinTuakau

What I'm getting from this is that the OG characters should be better than their newer counterparts.
Therefore:
IMIW should be worse than IM?
CapIW should be worse than Cap?
CapM Movie should be worse than CapM?
Gulk should be worse than Hulk?
Thor Rag should be worse than Thor?
Ronin should be worse than Hawkeye?

The list goes on. As time goes on Kabam thinks of new abilities which can be applied to newer characters. Its not as easy to just copy and paste an ability onto an old character.
Imagine you have a car. You've been using said car for over 4 years. The company who made that car has made a new type of car with a better engine. You can't just take your old car and put a new engine in and expect it to work like normal

SDP

Who or what is a “Villain” is a matter of perspective isn’t it? Cultural relativism sort of thing if you follow me...

SummonerNR

Still wondering why 4 of the others that DON'T have #Hero Tag still get to be counted in Hero Events and can be used on the Hero day’s of this month's Alternate Quests (Black Widow, Elektra, LukeCage, Winter Soldier). Anyone know ??

Seems like for those 4 above, game usage is not so strictly based on whether they have a certain Tag or not, so frankly I think the game should put the rest of the handful of champs that also don’t have either Hero/Villain Tags into either one category or another, and not have them be completely unavailable for these events.

Demonzfyre

Still wondering why 4 of the others that DON'T have #Hero Tag still get to be counted in Hero Events and can be used on the Hero day’s of this month's Alternate Quests (Black Widow, Elektra, LukeCage, Winter Soldier). Anyone know ??

Seems like for those 4 above, game usage is not so strictly based on whether they have a certain Tag or not, so frankly I think the game should put the rest of the handful of champs that also don’t have either Hero/Villain Tags into either one category or another, and not have them be completely unavailable for these events.

Oversight maybe? Older champs that don't have a lot of his ability save to luke cage? Not sure myself.

AmytG

IMIW should be worse than IM?
CapIW should be worse than Cap?
CapM Movie should be worse than CapM?
Gulk should be worse than Hulk?
Thor Rag should be worse than Thor?
Ronin should be worse than Hawkeye?

Maybe it's my greenness showing through, but I would argue yes. The original champions are the titans of the comic book meta-verse, in that people who don't even know comics can say "oh yeah, that's Iron Man, that's Captain America, that's Hawkeye." While I recognize it would be stupid for Kabam to do something like this, in my mind the Titans of the comic books should be the Titans of the games. The modern champions who are so much more interesting and powerful than the OG champions are niche picks, while the instant recognizable ones are left by the wayside to become low "sometimes useful" tier. It seems like the niche picks should have niche usage as hard counters to certain threats, and the famous ones should be able to deal generally with the widest variety of threats.