Loki - Coldsnap Inmunity

monomugg

Should Loki be coldsnap inmune, since, according to his bio he's "the son of a frost giant"? just wondering

Comments

RoninMan

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Worknprogress

Good thing you brought this up. No one has ever brought up logical immunities for champs that arent in game before. Do you think you can come up with some more so we can get this addressed asap?

ezgoing

Lol. What about iceman, he’s ice himself and he’s still subject to coldsnap.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Nop. Champions will only have certain abilities if they are designed to have them. No champion will necessarily have an ability based on outside sources

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Longshot_33

Thats completely ridiculous. The characters are based on source material. The mechanics they possess should reflect that material.

Sentry
Phoenix
Ghost Rider
Captain Marvel
Should all be immune to incinerate

Iceman
Loki (great shout)
Ronan (arguments could be made against this one)
Should all be immune to coldsnap

And based on source material Silver Surfer should be Coldsnap immune and Incinerate immune at the very least.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Thats completely ridiculous. The characters are based on source material. The mechanics they possess should reflect that material.

Sentry
Phoenix
Ghost Rider
Captain Marvel
Should all be immune to incinerate

Iceman
Loki (great shout)
Ronan (arguments could be made against this one)
Should all be immune to coldsnap

And based on source material Silver Surfer should be Coldsnap immune and Incinerate immune at the very least.

They are based and inspired in the source material, and real life as well. But not their full powers or abilities, that is a job for the developers to create them.
If Ghost Rider is immune to incinerate in the comics, thats okay. If he is not immune to it in the game, that is okay as well. They are not the same and decisions like that shouldn't be decised on something like "just because he can do it there he should be able to do it here"

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Longshot_33

I think Phoenix, who is literally living fire, being burned to death is just silly. The reason they she doesn't have incinerate immunity isn't because of game balance or design flaws or anything else. Its simply that she was made when incinerate wasn't really a thing and adjusting her takes time and money and makes them very little of it.

Colossus got reworked and given the applicable immunities. All i'm saying is.. so should the above champions. Juggernaut has ever been unbeatable, nor has ghost rider.

It was getting silly when storm and Thor were suffering from full on shock in game..so they sorted that with some adjustments. The same needs to happen with the above champs. And yes, even though rider is already a great champ he should get some form or resistance at the very least against fire.

I agree that certain toning down/up needs to happen to make Punisher vs Silver Surfer viable but outright omitting common sense mechanics is what is silly.

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LexSavi

The explanation I tell myself is that the Elders who control the contest have the ability to limit the powers of champs.

The Collector, or the Grandmaster, can essentially enslave the Hulk and force him to fight characters like Black Widow. If the Elders can manipulate Hulk’s power to the point the Black Widow can beat him down, is it so unbelievable they can make Ghost Rider susceptible to incinerate?

So the next time you’re wondering why Loki or Iceman aren’t immune to cold, blame it on the Elders, who are just trying to add some balance to their contest.

313rd

Nothing silly about what he said. You just have a different outlook on the topic. Reads like you took what the op said, which was at a small level ex: champ being logically immune to something, and compared it to something way bigger, very opinionated, and could be debated by anyone ongoing. Asking for a simple logical immunity, to me, shouldn’t be shut down because someone thinks it’s “too much to ask for.” Or even because one thinks it can be compared to the much more “overlooked” issue that certain champs are logically unbeatable by fact they are too powerful in the comics to even fight each other.

On a macro level, yes can’t dissect what champ could actually fight or even “be in the same arena” with another champ (Hawkeye vs Hulk for example). It is a game. But on a much much smaller level, talking about and maybe adding logical immunities doesn’t and shouldn’t disrupt any game flow.

Sometimes reading certain posts from certain users seems like it’s more of a pointing finger battle or like the opinion comes from a “stop asking for things, you do that too much and Im going help police these spoiled demands” perspective. Doesn’t seem very helpful, seems more like scolding.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

It was getting silly when storm and Thor were suffering from full on shock in game..so they sorted that with some adjustments. The same needs to happen with the above champs. And yes, even though rider is already a great champ he should get some form or resistance at the very least against fire.

The team specifically said that they did tge changes on the shock interaction with those champs due to the introduction of new shock nodes and abilities on the horizon, and the limited or non-existence of counters for it.

Lightvayne

I say we just take it as the Contest and iso-8 effects everyone differently, some positively and negatively, just to bring balance to the game. Otherwise, a champ like Dormammu, who is normally the size of a planet, would have ate everyone seasons ago just for fun and there would be no more mcoc.

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Longshot_33

The explanation I tell myself is that the Elders who control the contest have the ability to limit the powers of champs.

The Collector, or the Grandmaster, can essentially enslave the Hulk and force him to fight characters like Black Widow. If the Elders can manipulate Hulk’s power to the point the Black Widow can beat him down, is it so unbelievable they can make Ghost Rider susceptible to incinerate?

So the next time you’re wondering why Loki or Iceman aren’t immune to cold, blame it on the Elders, who are just trying to add some balance to their contest.

This will let me sleep at night. Thank you

Tehsigzorz

The source material is simply the brand, they dont need to follow it religiously

AmytG

Of course they don need to follow it religiously, but it would still make sense for Ghost Rider to have incin immunity. To say that the flaming skull should be able to take damage from a burn is stupid. Pretending that asking for a little bit of logic is the same as asking for full comic adherence is asinine. I don't think it's necessary for every champ on Longshot's list to get their immunity, but say, Iceman and Ghost Rider at least do deserve it, end of story. Overall, I think Will-o-wisp gave the best answer. Even though I disagree with some of it, it was civil and reasonable, unlike some other opinions.
Also, I think Lex's explanation isn't like super-convincing, but in general is a good way to in-game explain away the inconsistency.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Of course they don need to follow it religiously, but it would still make sense for Ghost Rider to have incin immunity. To say that the flaming skull should be able to take damage from a burn is stupid. Pretending that asking for a little bit of logic is the same as asking for full comic adherence is asinine. I don't think it's necessary for every champ on Longshot's list to get their immunity, but say, Iceman and Ghost Rider at least do deserve it, end of story. Overall, I think Will-o-wisp gave the best answer. Even though I disagree with some of it, it was civil and reasonable, unlike some other opinions.
Also, I think Lex's explanation isn't like super-convincing, but in general is a good way to in-game explain away the inconsistency.

Some people see Ghost Rider as a flaming skeleton. Some other's see him as a "living skeleton" with some sort of magic around him that looks like fire. And other's can say that there are different types of fire or flame, and Ghost Rider is not immune to the opponent's incinerate abilities.

All are acceptable, and all make sense. It's a fictional universe, anything happens. Even if Ghost Rider is affected by fire, or if Iceman is affected by ice, it makes sense on a fictional universe. We just need to accept it the way it is

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PandayPirata

Thats completely ridiculous. The characters are based on source material. The mechanics they possess should reflect that material.

Sentry
Phoenix
Ghost Rider
Captain Marvel
Should all be immune to incinerate

Iceman
Loki (great shout)
Ronan (arguments could be made against this one)
Should all be immune to coldsnap

And based on source material Silver Surfer should be Coldsnap immune and Incinerate immune at the very least.
Let me stop you right there:

If they designed characters with such a high emphasis on the source material as you demand it, champs like sentry, ghost rider, dormammu, void, juggernaut and unstoppable colossus should essentially be immune to damage (from almost any other champ in the game besides pheonix maybe) in general.

"Ghost rider should be incinerate immune hurr durr" - ghost rider according to what he is and how he functions is essentially immune to everything besides high tier reality manipulation, as would many others in the game.

I'd be happy with a juggernaut rework for example, but demanding to base that on his source would be simply ridiculous. As an avatar of cyttorak he's essentially always as powerful as cyttorak wants him to be. And while vague, a highballed cyttorak is basically literally limitless in his power.

What I'm trying to say is, this is a game. From that point onwards your arguments are just silly.

Who are you to say his argument is silly?

Nobody is asking game breaking changes to follow comics exactly. Otherwise, weaker champs won’t be able to compete with godlike champs in comics.

But an immunity for certain champs is not game breaker. For example, ghost rider being incinerate immune is not game breaker and makes more sense. Maybe game designers just didn’t make him incinerate immune because which champs have incinerate damage when ghost rider came out?

Suppose game designers made Iceman use gun and shoots lasers when fighting because they don’t have to follow comics, do you think that is good game design?

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PandayPirata

Thats completely ridiculous. The characters are based on source material. The mechanics they possess should reflect that material.

Sentry
Phoenix
Ghost Rider
Captain Marvel
Should all be immune to incinerate

Iceman
Loki (great shout)
Ronan (arguments could be made against this one)
Should all be immune to coldsnap

And based on source material Silver Surfer should be Coldsnap immune and Incinerate immune at the very least.
Let me stop you right there:

If they designed characters with such a high emphasis on the source material as you demand it, champs like sentry, ghost rider, dormammu, void, juggernaut and unstoppable colossus should essentially be immune to damage (from almost any other champ in the game besides pheonix maybe) in general.

"Ghost rider should be incinerate immune hurr durr" - ghost rider according to what he is and how he functions is essentially immune to everything besides high tier reality manipulation, as would many others in the game.

I'd be happy with a juggernaut rework for example, but demanding to base that on his source would be simply ridiculous. As an avatar of cyttorak he's essentially always as powerful as cyttorak wants him to be. And while vague, a highballed cyttorak is basically literally limitless in his power.

What I'm trying to say is, this is a game. From that point onwards your arguments are just silly.
Who are you to say his argument is silly?

Nobody is asking game breaking changes to follow comics exactly. Otherwise, weaker champs won’t be able to compete with godlike champs in comics.

But an immunity for certain champs is not game breaker. For example, ghost rider being incinerate immune is not game breaker and makes more sense. Maybe game designers just didn’t make him incinerate immune because which champs have incinerate damage when ghost rider came out?

Suppose game designers made Iceman use gun and shoots lasers when fighting because they don’t have to follow comics, do you think that is good game design?
Lol why so many strawmen?

Neither was my point that any additional immunity would be gamebreaking, nor that... Whatever that last paragraph was supposed to be.

Now, why "should" ghost rider be incinerate immune? Because his head is on fire...?

OP wanted to make the argument that he should be incinerate immune according to his source material. Look at the source material. The properties of ghost rider that would logically make him incinerate immune would also logically make him everything immune.

As a comic book character ghost rider doesn't have the single individual property of being immune to fire. His whole being is what makes him immune to most things. And everything that could actually hurt him doesn't really matter, because he can simply put himself back together.

You can't just make the argument of the source material and then go on cherry picking. That is what I say is silly.

You’re the one setting up strawmen. Just because people are arguing certain immunity for some champs doesn’t mean that they want all the other things that go with that immunity. You’re saying that ghost rider’s incinerate immunity gives him other damage immunity which is correct. But this is where game designers can pick and choose which attributes in comics they want to bring in the game so the game is playable.

Sure, it’s cherry picking but that what game developer are doing because they really can’t copy the comics exactly or else some champs would really be OP and others are just useless champs.

Game developers can make ghost rider incinerate immune without bringing in other abilities for him that would make him so OP.

People arguing or asking for ghost rider incinerate immunity (Or for other champs) is as valid as your point that he is not incinerate immune because game developers designed it that way.

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FR33_HUG5

The flaming is strong in this thread.

PandayPirata

Thats completely ridiculous. The characters are based on source material. The mechanics they possess should reflect that material.

Sentry
Phoenix
Ghost Rider
Captain Marvel
Should all be immune to incinerate

Iceman
Loki (great shout)
Ronan (arguments could be made against this one)
Should all be immune to coldsnap

And based on source material Silver Surfer should be Coldsnap immune and Incinerate immune at the very least.
Let me stop you right there:

If they designed characters with such a high emphasis on the source material as you demand it, champs like sentry, ghost rider, dormammu, void, juggernaut and unstoppable colossus should essentially be immune to damage (from almost any other champ in the game besides pheonix maybe) in general.

"Ghost rider should be incinerate immune hurr durr" - ghost rider according to what he is and how he functions is essentially immune to everything besides high tier reality manipulation, as would many others in the game.

I'd be happy with a juggernaut rework for example, but demanding to base that on his source would be simply ridiculous. As an avatar of cyttorak he's essentially always as powerful as cyttorak wants him to be. And while vague, a highballed cyttorak is basically literally limitless in his power.

What I'm trying to say is, this is a game. From that point onwards your arguments are just silly.
Who are you to say his argument is silly?

Nobody is asking game breaking changes to follow comics exactly. Otherwise, weaker champs won’t be able to compete with godlike champs in comics.

But an immunity for certain champs is not game breaker. For example, ghost rider being incinerate immune is not game breaker and makes more sense. Maybe game designers just didn’t make him incinerate immune because which champs have incinerate damage when ghost rider came out?

Suppose game designers made Iceman use gun and shoots lasers when fighting because they don’t have to follow comics, do you think that is good game design?
Lol why so many strawmen?

Neither was my point that any additional immunity would be gamebreaking, nor that... Whatever that last paragraph was supposed to be.

Now, why "should" ghost rider be incinerate immune? Because his head is on fire...?

OP wanted to make the argument that he should be incinerate immune according to his source material. Look at the source material. The properties of ghost rider that would logically make him incinerate immune would also logically make him everything immune.

As a comic book character ghost rider doesn't have the single individual property of being immune to fire. His whole being is what makes him immune to most things. And everything that could actually hurt him doesn't really matter, because he can simply put himself back together.

You can't just make the argument of the source material and then go on cherry picking. That is what I say is silly.
You’re the one setting up strawmen. Just because people are arguing certain immunity for some champs doesn’t mean that they want all the other things that go with that immunity. You’re saying that ghost rider’s incinerate immunity gives him other damage immunity which is correct. But this is where game designers can pick and choose which attributes in comics they want to bring in the game so the game is playable.

Sure, it’s cherry picking but that what game developer are doing because they really can’t copy the comics exactly or else some champs would really be OP and others are just useless champs.

Game developers can make ghost rider incinerate immune without bringing in other abilities for him that would make him so OP.

People arguing or asking for ghost rider incinerate immunity (Or for other champs) is as valid as your point that he is not incinerate immune because game developers designed it that way.
And the game designers chose to not give him incinerate immunity lol.

I really don't get the basis for your argument.

Should he be incinerate immune to stay true to his source material? Already dissected that.

Should he be incinerate immune from a gameplay perspective? Seemingly not

Just like colossus wasn’t incinerate immune before and they made him incinerate immune now. So game designers can do the same with other champs.

The point is it’s not silly if people say some champs should have certain abilities based on comics. They are not saying all abilities in comics for each champs should be in this game

Captain_Nietsch

Thats completely ridiculous. The characters are based on source material. The mechanics they possess should reflect that material.

Sentry
Phoenix
Ghost Rider
Captain Marvel
Should all be immune to incinerate

Iceman
Loki (great shout)
Ronan (arguments could be made against this one)
Should all be immune to coldsnap

And based on source material Silver Surfer should be Coldsnap immune and Incinerate immune at the very least.
Let me stop you right there:

If they designed characters with such a high emphasis on the source material as you demand it, champs like sentry, ghost rider, dormammu, void, juggernaut and unstoppable colossus should essentially be immune to damage (from almost any other champ in the game besides pheonix maybe) in general.

"Ghost rider should be incinerate immune hurr durr" - ghost rider according to what he is and how he functions is essentially immune to everything besides high tier reality manipulation, as would many others in the game.

I'd be happy with a juggernaut rework for example, but demanding to base that on his source would be simply ridiculous. As an avatar of cyttorak he's essentially always as powerful as cyttorak wants him to be. And while vague, a highballed cyttorak is basically literally limitless in his power.

What I'm trying to say is, this is a game. From that point onwards your arguments are just silly.

I agree that if champs weren't somewhat balanced for the game, but was instead based on their abilities in comics, a great big number would be so OP it wouldn't even be fun. Because let's face it, without balancing things black widow, hawkeye and any non superpowered hero would lose against a great big number of champs without ever standing a chance... Hyperion would be able to beat them with his pinky.

So we should be grateful they actually balanced things out so that all champions can stand against each other without being hopelessly miss matched. Sure, it means they have to take some (rather big) liberties with the champs abilities.

That being said, some champs do have abilities that they are strongly identified with, some iconic powers or abilities that makes them the character they are. The game designers have to try to get those right at least, as to not destroy the champ. Some abilities are more important to get right.

Lormif

Thats completely ridiculous. The characters are based on source material. The mechanics they possess should reflect that material.

Sentry
Phoenix
Ghost Rider
Captain Marvel
Should all be immune to incinerate

Iceman
Loki (great shout)
Ronan (arguments could be made against this one)
Should all be immune to coldsnap

And based on source material Silver Surfer should be Coldsnap immune and Incinerate immune at the very least.
Let me stop you right there:

If they designed characters with such a high emphasis on the source material as you demand it, champs like sentry, ghost rider, dormammu, void, juggernaut and unstoppable colossus should essentially be immune to damage (from almost any other champ in the game besides pheonix maybe) in general.

"Ghost rider should be incinerate immune hurr durr" - ghost rider according to what he is and how he functions is essentially immune to everything besides high tier reality manipulation, as would many others in the game.

I'd be happy with a juggernaut rework for example, but demanding to base that on his source would be simply ridiculous. As an avatar of cyttorak he's essentially always as powerful as cyttorak wants him to be. And while vague, a highballed cyttorak is basically literally limitless in his power.

What I'm trying to say is, this is a game. From that point onwards your arguments are just silly.
Who are you to say his argument is silly?

Nobody is asking game breaking changes to follow comics exactly. Otherwise, weaker champs won’t be able to compete with godlike champs in comics.

But an immunity for certain champs is not game breaker. For example, ghost rider being incinerate immune is not game breaker and makes more sense. Maybe game designers just didn’t make him incinerate immune because which champs have incinerate damage when ghost rider came out?

Suppose game designers made Iceman use gun and shoots lasers when fighting because they don’t have to follow comics, do you think that is good game design?
Lol why so many strawmen?

Neither was my point that any additional immunity would be gamebreaking, nor that... Whatever that last paragraph was supposed to be.

Now, why "should" ghost rider be incinerate immune? Because his head is on fire...?

OP wanted to make the argument that he should be incinerate immune according to his source material. Look at the source material. The properties of ghost rider that would logically make him incinerate immune would also logically make him everything immune.

As a comic book character ghost rider doesn't have the single individual property of being immune to fire. His whole being is what makes him immune to most things. And everything that could actually hurt him doesn't really matter, because he can simply put himself back together.

You can't just make the argument of the source material and then go on cherry picking. That is what I say is silly.
You’re the one setting up strawmen. Just because people are arguing certain immunity for some champs doesn’t mean that they want all the other things that go with that immunity. You’re saying that ghost rider’s incinerate immunity gives him other damage immunity which is correct. But this is where game designers can pick and choose which attributes in comics they want to bring in the game so the game is playable.

Sure, it’s cherry picking but that what game developer are doing because they really can’t copy the comics exactly or else some champs would really be OP and others are just useless champs.

Game developers can make ghost rider incinerate immune without bringing in other abilities for him that would make him so OP.

People arguing or asking for ghost rider incinerate immunity (Or for other champs) is as valid as your point that he is not incinerate immune because game developers designed it that way.
And the game designers chose to not give him incinerate immunity lol.

I really don't get the basis for your argument.

Should he be incinerate immune to stay true to his source material? Already dissected that.

Should he be incinerate immune from a gameplay perspective? Seemingly not
Just like colossus wasn’t incinerate immune before and they made him incinerate immune now. So game designers can do the same with other champs.

The point is it’s not silly if people say some champs should have certain abilities based on comics. They are not saying all abilities in comics for each champs should be in this game

the point is silly. The game is based on balancing the champs. Colossus was not just given the immunity, it was based around an entire redesign of his character. Just giving characters their immunities from the source would break all semblance of balance.

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