Duping 6*

Why are there no bonus resources when duping a 6* like when duping any other level champ? Seems like there should be some shards or sig stones or something..

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Jake303AoS

There'll probably be 7* shards one day.

What did we get for duping a 5* back when 6* champs weren't a thing?

I honestly can't remember, but still seems like there should be something.. the max sig crystals have a chance at sig stones, so since there are no 7* shards, that would at least be better than nothing, considering duping a 6* is usually a massive disappointment lol

Lvernon15

There'll probably be 7* shards one day.

What did we get for duping a 5* back when 6* champs weren't a thing?

The same as you get now but without the 6* shards

Etm34

I think at the moment duping a 6* should just get you more 6* shards. Just double the amount that you get from duping a 5* and call it a day. It’s nothing insane, and it’s better than literally getting nothing.

ECOMA

Back in my day doing a 4 got you nothing. No sigs existed no shards existed

DNA3000

I think at the moment duping a 6* should just get you more 6* shards. Just double the amount that you get from duping a 5* and call it a day. It’s nothing insane, and it’s better than literally getting nothing.

It depends on whether you're looking at the game from the single player perspective or the multiplayer perspective. From the single player perspective, any reward is better than no reward. But from the multiplayer perspective that's not true because the game is balanced around the average player. Rewards, progress, difficulty are all targeted at averages, either the average of all players or sometimes the average of a certain group of players at certain progress levels.

If the calendar gave out a million 5* shards and hundreds of catalysts to everyone that wouldn't be better than nothing, because in this extreme example the free calendar rewards would completely swamp what you could possibly earn from gameplay or spending money. Making spending and grinding pointless would basically destroy the game. Even if money wasn't the issue, no one would play a game like that, because no reward in the game would matter.

The flip side problem is what happens if you give out too much rewards at the top. If the more you grind or the more you play or the more you spend the more rewards you got in a completely unlimited fashion, eventually the advantage at the top would just keep compounding until it became insurmountable, and that would make the game too hostile to new and lower progression players. The advantages for gameplay and spending have to diminish over time, so other players don't feel like it is completely impossible to move up progressionally.

6* champs are harder to get than 5* champs. They are also generally more costly to upgrade, and more difficult to increase signature level on. Kabam has even compressed the rank up advantages for 6* champs above rank 2. All of this is to make sure that the players that are building up 6* rosters have a much harder time, relatively speaking, than players building up 5* rosters. For high progression and high grind or spending players, it is worth doing, but their ability to go much higher than the players below them is limited. And one of the ways their progress is "soft capped" is that duplicating 6* champs doesn't generate 7* shards. It doesn't even generate 6* shards. They don't get accelerating advantages for building up a large 6* roster. The game holds them back until the game is ready to allow everyone access to the next tier up: until then the game uses a steeper treadmill for them than for everyone else. It is a kind of soft cap.

I would love to get something for duping 6* champs. But if the game gave those rewards to me, it would also be giving those rewards in much larger amounts to the players far above me. And while I don't care if the players above me are in fact above me, it does matter in the long run if they skew the averages higher, and as a result force the game to target a stronger level of players. That indirectly makes the game harder for everyone in the long run, and that can actually negate the benefits of getting those rewards.

TL;DR: If getting rewards for duping 6* champs makes the game harder overall due to the increase in rewards at the top, and that trickles down to most of the mid to high progression players, it can be worse to get those rewards than to get nothing in a massively multiplayer game.

Jake303AoS

I think at the moment duping a 6* should just get you more 6* shards. Just double the amount that you get from duping a 5* and call it a day. It’s nothing insane, and it’s better than literally getting nothing.
It depends on whether you're looking at the game from the single player perspective or the multiplayer perspective. From the single player perspective, any reward is better than no reward. But from the multiplayer perspective that's not true because the game is balanced around the average player. Rewards, progress, difficulty are all targeted at averages, either the average of all players or sometimes the average of a certain group of players at certain progress levels.

If the calendar gave out a million 5* shards and hundreds of catalysts to everyone that wouldn't be better than nothing, because in this extreme example the free calendar rewards would completely swamp what you could possibly earn from gameplay or spending money. Making spending and grinding pointless would basically destroy the game. Even if money wasn't the issue, no one would play a game like that, because no reward in the game would matter.

The flip side problem is what happens if you give out too much rewards at the top. If the more you grind or the more you play or the more you spend the more rewards you got in a completely unlimited fashion, eventually the advantage at the top would just keep compounding until it became insurmountable, and that would make the game too hostile to new and lower progression players. The advantages for gameplay and spending have to diminish over time, so other players don't feel like it is completely impossible to move up progressionally.

6* champs are harder to get than 5* champs. They are also generally more costly to upgrade, and more difficult to increase signature level on. Kabam has even compressed the rank up advantages for 6* champs above rank 2. All of this is to make sure that the players that are building up 6* rosters have a much harder time, relatively speaking, than players building up 5* rosters. For high progression and high grind or spending players, it is worth doing, but their ability to go much higher than the players below them is limited. And one of the ways their progress is "soft capped" is that duplicating 6* champs doesn't generate 7* shards. It doesn't even generate 6* shards. They don't get accelerating advantages for building up a large 6* roster. The game holds them back until the game is ready to allow everyone access to the next tier up: until then the game uses a steeper treadmill for them than for everyone else. It is a kind of soft cap.

I would love to get something for duping 6* champs. But if the game gave those rewards to me, it would also be giving those rewards in much larger amounts to the players far above me. And while I don't care if the players above me are in fact above me, it does matter in the long run if they skew the averages higher, and as a result force the game to target a stronger level of players. That indirectly makes the game harder for everyone in the long run, and that can actually negate the benefits of getting those rewards.

TL;DR: If getting rewards for duping 6* champs makes the game harder overall due to the increase in rewards at the top, and that trickles down to most of the mid to high progression players, it can be worse to get those rewards than to get nothing in a massively multiplayer game.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's quite that relevant in this case, as the rewards in question are miniscule. It would take duping 37 6* champs to equal just one more 6* champ. Or if they offered say, a couple 5* sign stones when duping a 6*, it wouldn't influence the game in any substantial way.

Basically it would just be nice to get a little something when achieving one of the currently most difficult things to do in the game. But just as these miniscule rewards wouldn't sway the game in a substantially positive way, it also doesn't sway it that negatively either. So no big deal, but again, would be nice.

DNA3000

I think at the moment duping a 6* should just get you more 6* shards. Just double the amount that you get from duping a 5* and call it a day. It’s nothing insane, and it’s better than literally getting nothing.
It depends on whether you're looking at the game from the single player perspective or the multiplayer perspective. From the single player perspective, any reward is better than no reward. But from the multiplayer perspective that's not true because the game is balanced around the average player. Rewards, progress, difficulty are all targeted at averages, either the average of all players or sometimes the average of a certain group of players at certain progress levels.

If the calendar gave out a million 5* shards and hundreds of catalysts to everyone that wouldn't be better than nothing, because in this extreme example the free calendar rewards would completely swamp what you could possibly earn from gameplay or spending money. Making spending and grinding pointless would basically destroy the game. Even if money wasn't the issue, no one would play a game like that, because no reward in the game would matter.

The flip side problem is what happens if you give out too much rewards at the top. If the more you grind or the more you play or the more you spend the more rewards you got in a completely unlimited fashion, eventually the advantage at the top would just keep compounding until it became insurmountable, and that would make the game too hostile to new and lower progression players. The advantages for gameplay and spending have to diminish over time, so other players don't feel like it is completely impossible to move up progressionally.

6* champs are harder to get than 5* champs. They are also generally more costly to upgrade, and more difficult to increase signature level on. Kabam has even compressed the rank up advantages for 6* champs above rank 2. All of this is to make sure that the players that are building up 6* rosters have a much harder time, relatively speaking, than players building up 5* rosters. For high progression and high grind or spending players, it is worth doing, but their ability to go much higher than the players below them is limited. And one of the ways their progress is "soft capped" is that duplicating 6* champs doesn't generate 7* shards. It doesn't even generate 6* shards. They don't get accelerating advantages for building up a large 6* roster. The game holds them back until the game is ready to allow everyone access to the next tier up: until then the game uses a steeper treadmill for them than for everyone else. It is a kind of soft cap.

I would love to get something for duping 6* champs. But if the game gave those rewards to me, it would also be giving those rewards in much larger amounts to the players far above me. And while I don't care if the players above me are in fact above me, it does matter in the long run if they skew the averages higher, and as a result force the game to target a stronger level of players. That indirectly makes the game harder for everyone in the long run, and that can actually negate the benefits of getting those rewards.

TL;DR: If getting rewards for duping 6* champs makes the game harder overall due to the increase in rewards at the top, and that trickles down to most of the mid to high progression players, it can be worse to get those rewards than to get nothing in a massively multiplayer game.
I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's quite that relevant in this case, as the rewards in question are miniscule. It would take duping 37 6* champs to equal just one more 6* champ. Or if they offered say, a couple 5* sign stones when duping a 6*, it wouldn't influence the game in any substantial way.

If it won't influence the game in any substantial way, how would you justify adding those rewards to the game? They are too low to be meaningful to players, so all you've done is add a bunch of rewards that will make no one happy, but encourage players to demand more.

This assumes they are in fact miniscule. But I don't think you believe they are, because if you did you wouldn't really care if they existed.

Also, just as with 5* champs, it takes 36 dups and change to get one more, but that accelerates over time. It only takes 18 dups and change to get one more 5* champ from dups, if those 5* champs are at max sig and you get max sig crystals. So over time the return on dups increases from one in 36 to one in 18 over time, and the more you get the faster you get more. Many of the highest roster progression players are already in this position now with 5* champs, and they could be making a lot of progress towards doing this with 6* champs if they had a way to increase their earning rate of 6* champs. Right now, there is no good way to use your roster of 6* champs to get more 6* champs beyond a certain rate. But duplication adds such a way. It may seem small, but it is positive feedback and positive feedback always grows faster than people intuitively expect.

Jake303AoS

I think at the moment duping a 6* should just get you more 6* shards. Just double the amount that you get from duping a 5* and call it a day. It’s nothing insane, and it’s better than literally getting nothing.
It depends on whether you're looking at the game from the single player perspective or the multiplayer perspective. From the single player perspective, any reward is better than no reward. But from the multiplayer perspective that's not true because the game is balanced around the average player. Rewards, progress, difficulty are all targeted at averages, either the average of all players or sometimes the average of a certain group of players at certain progress levels.

If the calendar gave out a million 5* shards and hundreds of catalysts to everyone that wouldn't be better than nothing, because in this extreme example the free calendar rewards would completely swamp what you could possibly earn from gameplay or spending money. Making spending and grinding pointless would basically destroy the game. Even if money wasn't the issue, no one would play a game like that, because no reward in the game would matter.

The flip side problem is what happens if you give out too much rewards at the top. If the more you grind or the more you play or the more you spend the more rewards you got in a completely unlimited fashion, eventually the advantage at the top would just keep compounding until it became insurmountable, and that would make the game too hostile to new and lower progression players. The advantages for gameplay and spending have to diminish over time, so other players don't feel like it is completely impossible to move up progressionally.

6* champs are harder to get than 5* champs. They are also generally more costly to upgrade, and more difficult to increase signature level on. Kabam has even compressed the rank up advantages for 6* champs above rank 2. All of this is to make sure that the players that are building up 6* rosters have a much harder time, relatively speaking, than players building up 5* rosters. For high progression and high grind or spending players, it is worth doing, but their ability to go much higher than the players below them is limited. And one of the ways their progress is "soft capped" is that duplicating 6* champs doesn't generate 7* shards. It doesn't even generate 6* shards. They don't get accelerating advantages for building up a large 6* roster. The game holds them back until the game is ready to allow everyone access to the next tier up: until then the game uses a steeper treadmill for them than for everyone else. It is a kind of soft cap.

I would love to get something for duping 6* champs. But if the game gave those rewards to me, it would also be giving those rewards in much larger amounts to the players far above me. And while I don't care if the players above me are in fact above me, it does matter in the long run if they skew the averages higher, and as a result force the game to target a stronger level of players. That indirectly makes the game harder for everyone in the long run, and that can actually negate the benefits of getting those rewards.

TL;DR: If getting rewards for duping 6* champs makes the game harder overall due to the increase in rewards at the top, and that trickles down to most of the mid to high progression players, it can be worse to get those rewards than to get nothing in a massively multiplayer game.
I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's quite that relevant in this case, as the rewards in question are miniscule. It would take duping 37 6* champs to equal just one more 6* champ. Or if they offered say, a couple 5* sign stones when duping a 6*, it wouldn't influence the game in any substantial way.
If it won't influence the game in any substantial way, how would you justify adding those rewards to the game? They are too low to be meaningful to players, so all you've done is add a bunch of rewards that will make no one happy, but encourage players to demand more.

This assumes they are in fact miniscule. But I don't think you believe they are, because if you did you wouldn't really care if they existed.

Also, just as with 5* champs, it takes 36 dups and change to get one more, but that accelerates over time. It only takes 18 dups and change to get one more 5* champ from dups, if those 5* champs are at max sig and you get max sig crystals. So over time the return on dups increases from one in 36 to one in 18 over time, and the more you get the faster you get more. Many of the highest roster progression players are already in this position now with 5* champs, and they could be making a lot of progress towards doing this with 6* champs if they had a way to increase their earning rate of 6* champs. Right now, there is no good way to use your roster of 6* champs to get more 6* champs beyond a certain rate. But duplication adds such a way. It may seem small, but it is positive feedback and positive feedback always grows faster than people intuitively expect.

I do believe they're miniscule. Too miniscule to imbalance the game, yet not too miniscule to be worthless.

And I see your point about the rate increasing with max sig crystals, but not only is that assuming every 18 champs opened are not only all dupes, but are also at max sig, which is unlikely. On top of that, that's also the cap. That is the highest possible rewards, and only from the best possible case each time, and it can't increase further than that. I just don't think it's significant enough to give unfair advantage or growth rate to higher tier players, yet it would be somewhat helpful to everyone. Even a just a couple sig stones would be cool, and just give a basic added sense of accomplishment for, again, achieving one of the most difficult things to do in the game.

Just my opinion!

Bboychobo

coz they have no idea what to give out

TheHeroDeserved

When I duped my 6* deadpool x-force, I also got regrets and selfpity.

Captain_Nietsch

When I duped my 6* deadpool x-force, I also got regrets and selfpity.

There's value in those also!

Duke_Silver

I’ve seen some good ideas in this thread. I’d also like to suggest that instead of getting T5 class iso (which is what you get from a 4*), 6* dupes should give T6 class iso with greater value.

DNA3000

And I see your point about the rate increasing with max sig crystals, but not only is that assuming every 18 champs opened are not only all dupes, but are also at max sig, which is unlikely.

No, that's not the assumption, that's just an expression of the limit of the curve. Let's start with someone with no 5* champs at all. The first crystal he pulls has no chance of giving him any 6* shards, because that champ is guaranteed to be a new champ. However, the *next* crystal he opens does have a small chance to be a dup. If it is a dup he will get 275 6* shards. But the odds of that happening are very low, maybe one in a 150. But we can state that on average, that crystal has an average number of 6* shards - maybe 2 or so. The next one he opens has a higher chance to dup, and higher. The number of 6* shards they get *on average* will rise until eventually most crystals they open will be dups and most of the time they will be getting 275 5* shards. The average amount of 6* shards per 5* crystal will rise to 200 or more.

*And then* they will start to max out champs (assuming they don't do so with sig stones or by getting a lot of dups of a single champ). Every time it is a new champ they get none, every time it is a non-max dup they get 275, and every time it is a max dup they get 550 (most of the time). The *average* shards per crystal will rise above 275, heading towards 550. As the number of champs they have at max sig increases, the amount of shards they get on average increase.

The more 5* crystals they open, the more 5* champs they get, and the more 5* champs they duplicate, and the more 5* champs they get to max sig. Suppose there are 150 different 5* champs and a hypothetical player has 140 of them, and 70 are at max sig. Assuming they get shards in max sig crystals (I don't know the odds of getting things like awakening gems, although it is low) that means there's a 10/150 chance to get no 6* shards (new champ), 70/150 chance to get 275 and 70/150 chance to get 550. That makes the average number of 6* shards per 5* crystal about 385.

If you have maybe 60 5* champs and none at max sig, your average 6* shards per 5* crystal is about 110. If you're opening five 5* crystals a month and that hypothetical guy above is opening fifteen, the difference is you'd be getting 550 6* shards from 5* dups every month and he's getting 5775 - over ten times as many. And he's nowhere near maxing out every 5* champ. But notice that he's opening three times as many 5* crystals but getting ten times as many 6* shards - that's the positive feedback I mentioned: the gain accelerates over time.

That kind of accelerating benefit is manageable when you're talking about the second highest tier of champions in the game, but that's not something you want to happen at the highest tier, because there's nowhere for that benefit to go: it just rapidly pushes the top tier players up against the unavoidable cap of 7* champs not existing. Instead, it saturates them with max 6* champs, and then when 7* champs are released the natural advantage of those players having huge maxed out 6* rosters causes them to run away with 7* rosters right out of the gate. That didn't happen when 6* rosters came out, because the top players didn't have the ability to saturate their 5* rosters before 6* champs were released, and even now even the highest players are still building up their 6* rosters. We don't want to give them an extra exponential benefit over all other players.