general thread to comment on rebalances [Merged Threads]

DOKTOROKTOPUS

he needs more reworks, lots of them

Derek2k

Denslo500 said:

The disconnect between the perceived effort in the balance changes and result
1) Tons of notices and release of all the data used to make determination (summoners are primed for big changes)
2) Buffs are almost imperceptible
3) Nerfs are sort of buffs (depending on perspective)

These seem like changes you could have done at a whim.

Kabam looks fantastically incompetent when they put in so much effort with so little result.

Unlike others i hit disagree for this reason. I'm not kabams defender or anyone elses but let's be fair. They make a buff or nerf.... people freak out so now it seems instead what they are doing is releasing champs either with testing or only at best barely tweaking any. Ex. Namor,cull,ht. Am I wrong guys? Does anyone else feel this way? Without getting into everything yes kabam can do better but so can we. We are human after all and not perfect. Hopefully they will improve and also we can improve as a community not being so toxic on the forums and instead talking to them like you would to someone's face in person.

Snurris

I agree with @Derek2k on this. I’m often amazed over how people talk to each other in here.
About the changes. Reading between the lines it almost seems like a bunch of people are upset that Culls or Namors nerfs wasn’t bigger and now they can’t really justify selling them and be able to rank up a new favorite toy.
Did it take to long? Yes, but if they would have done it fast and sloppy it would have been worse imo.

Kalantak

i dnt have new champs and will never have so most of these changes or rebalances will never affect me except for may b worst champs i get them in 6* pool. but overall these amount of graphs and data should have more affect on changes , 6+ months to increase 6 seconds of fury and yet champ is a failed design , or HT tht will still b only used for mystic or energy champs, basically nothing has changed about perception of champs and they exactly needed that so why not do it quicker and get it over with in month or two!!! and carry on making changes on all new champs that released after like Elsa bloodstone, vision aarkus, BwCV, g2099,silver aurfer, if GOAL is to not change the perception and keeping trash as trash and OP as just slightly less OP then these updates should have been quicker!! BALANCE changes should be necessity on this level of game,this is one of the most deep,detailed,and huge game and should need continuos balance changes and not just new champ release!! solo daily events provide u with t3 basic, 2* sig stone, 1 4* sig stone ,is that useful for anyone who has move past act 3 (which is like first 2 months now for any player)
GaMe has 160 playable characters and only 20 of them are being ranked higher and if anyone takes anything else they either get kicked off alliance or gonna have hard time doing future content ,(is it really crime to upgrade what you like and not upgrade trash champs like thor ragnarok) diffrence between a character released in 2019 and 2016/15/14 is so huge its a joke,shouldnt it get a rebalance as well?? new mechanics and insanely diffcult nodes are popping in act 6,wars and passive AIs in AQ tht just wants your time,so shouldnt more characters have better kits to deal with it?? why is champs like Og ironman,dr strange or even ironfist are completely ignored and has absolutely no use now?? shouldnt it get rebalance as well?

GroundedWisdom

The point of these changes isn't to give them total reworks into something powerful and on par with "God Tiers". It isn't even to make them the next best choice. It's proactive adjustments, small adjustments, that will minimize problems down the road. Older Champs require a considerable amount of attention in reworking, and that puts a strain on future and current content. Adjusting the newer Champions in small ways reduces the work load of programming as well as potential future reworks. Somehow people built large expectations because of the wait time but it's not a "Took you 6 months to come up with this!" kind of situation. The original plan was explained in detail long ago. That hasn't changed. These aren't massive reworks. Just tweaks.

Il_JooO

I'm really looking forward to sell my 5s Namor as soon as I can, can't wait for!

Timone147

I guess with the whole thing I just don’t see the point.

Nothing really has changed and all of this largely had no impact on anything relating to uses of the champs or gameplay decisions around rank up. The needles barely moved at all if they did on pretty much all the champs.

Just seems like a waste of time and effort on everyone’s parts to even have this be a thing if they don’t do really anything in the grand scheme of the game.

Kalantak

Rebalance changes needs to stay firm on proper changes and not just be a time waste! saw BG's live stream and his idea of rebalance would absolutely work for this game properly!! i suggest devs to talk to brian grant regarding next round of rebalance please!!! as per him trash doesnt need to be trash and should be good for something ,cant have champions with absolutely 90% of useless abilities and few who can just heavy and finish any content !! yeh domino,corvus,hyperion,and few others!! if they really want to rebalance game they really need to bring some bottom level champ to a decent level damage or utility wise and at the same time bring champs like domino ,ghost to a certain level where they r still top champs but just doesnt roll through any content without any care!! champs who r old but border line decent but are least likely to be upgraded (like mid level champs
but who still ride benches because new champs do have same abilties as them but better) need some updated base stats may n to stay relevant with content or may b a single new ability that can make them
viable ,
- for ex. make drstrange's regen half but give him powerburn on that phase ,fury phase make him hit harder, add an ability to have two phases at same time like symbiote supreme
- have Og thor absolute immune to any ability reduction or be able to parry projectiles or even give aptitude + powergain buff on sp3
- have LOkI ability to carry persistant charge, where he can use stolen buff from fight to fight like VTD but loki can only trigger for first 7 seconds and after sp3 and have hard cap of 5 buffs.
- reduce ghost,corvus's critical damage
- reduce quake's concussion damage
- reduce hyperion's power gain and fury value or have hard cap on hyperion's furys like silver surfer n give aptitude instead
- New CMM ,not sure abt nick fury he seems he fights at 30% gets cheaped down but cant rule him out of Op section
- well these were just examples but i really hope next Rebalance changes are more meaningful and adds actual balance and freshness to game !!

slacker

Rooney_Nation said:

@Kabam Miike I don’t have all the champions rebalanced, but I do have annihilous, and he is super disappointing. The only way he can do decent damage (not great damage) is stacking 12 fury’s. To get that many takes several rounds of L1 because of the short stifle duration. Instead of extending his weak fury, the stifle duration should’ve been extended. Then it would be possible to get the 12 needed to get max damage. Our cap the stifle at six and double the potency of his fury. I feel like the best option would be to decrease the stifle cap and increase the fury potency. We understand the rebalancing should be small tweaks to make them more viable, but this tweak does nothing to address that. Not expecting a massive colossus type overhaul, something to actually make his better.

you could extend stifle by using sp3 tho...

Lvernon15

Kabam Miike said:

I'm gonna be very honest with you guys here. You're right that this shouldn't have taken this long, and these changes are very small. But this was done as a direct result of the reaction that players had to the announcement of Cull's rebalance. We always tried to make it clear that rebalance changes are meant to be small, and only make a few changes to numbers here and there, but understandably, players didn't know what that meant for Cull, and were scared of what it would be in the end.

So, we wanted to make sure that we made you all more comfortable with the idea of Balance changes, and show you why we do them. Human Torch and Annihilus's balance changes were basically ready by the time we announced we're putting a pause on it. But in order to gather the data and present it in a player facing manner for all of these Champs, we needed to take some time.

We made it very clear that these are not Reworks, and that these changes should not change your perception of a Champion if you love them.

Going forward, if our players feel they're more comfortable with these, maybe we will be much quicker with them, but from what many of you have told me, you like the context, you like the data, and you like that we took our time to actually think about the changes.

Thanks for being honest here, that makes sense, just wish the bad chanps were at least made ok-good

Mcord11758

cant help but feel like these changes are a softening up of the community for future changes. Hopefully any future changes follow suit in severity, but if that is the case then these adjustments going forward are meaningless in both directions.

-sixate-

Mcord11758 said:

cant help but feel like these changes are a softening up of the community for future changes. Hopefully any future changes follow suit in severity, but if that is the case then these adjustments going forward are meaningless in both directions.

Completely agree.

Kbugii

My r5 sig 200 version did rol ws in 394 hits. Before update it was 401 hits.

Mirage_Turtle

Some positive spin:

Ebony Maw is a hard counter to the Rage node.

Colinwhitworth69

SentryPillow said:

@Colinwhitworth69 the balance update was announced 6 months ago. It was then paused for over 3 months with no update and this was the best they could do. I understand that the changes were supposed to be small, but what was the point in holding the changes off for over 6 months and making them this small. Collecting the data and actually making changes this small does not take 6 months. 6 months is more of a time period in which champs are completely reworked (colossus and old man logan).

They were going to announce them a while back but the collective losing of our minds stopped them. They then decided to create an in-depth statistical analysis of their reasons so that when they did announce this people would understand their thinking. And of course there were the holidays, which always slows down a company.

Vdh2008

Personally, I actually have LESS faith in the process than I had before...

It's great that the game team chose to show the "data" the decisions were based on, BUT the data was skewed, and as a result literal WRONG decisions were made.

1. Namor Regen- There is absolutely NO way that real game play at ANY level shows Namor's regen to be better than others. It was horrible pre-nerf, and it's now non existent.

2. Maw is such a bad champ that post-buff there are STILL 3 star champs that can out DPS a ranked 5 star.

3. Annihilus got absolutely NO improvement for most uses. He was an OP defender, and that has not changed outside his very very niche uses.

Mirage_Turtle

I hope Kabam gets more comfortable with these re-balance changes and gets the confidence to "tune up" older champs that may not require a full rework, but a possible rebalance could bring them back into the meta. Hawkeye, Elektra, Black Panther, Black Panther Civil War, Civil Warrior, Cyclops, Dormammu, Psylocke...the list goes on.

To be clear, I'd hope a rebalance wouldn't preclude a champ from being completely reworked later. For example, I think Magneto could have his damage and ability accuracy increased in the short term to make him more usable. That would hopefully hold us over until he gets a full rework that he definitely deserves.

Bboychobo

very sad that they treated him this way !!!!

RagamugginGunner

They get/got so much hate because they make announcements w/o any actual info and then delay giving the info for months. They've lost our trust with how poorly they've handled past nerf so they don't get the benefit of the doubt from the community.

IMO, what took them so long was figuring out a compensation package that somewhat fixed the issue of nerfing champs that people spent thousands of dollars on. Champ acquisition in this game is 100% the biggest factor in stifling balance changes. When they only way to et a champ is spending 3 days in the arena or dropping Odin's on crystals, you can't just nerf champs unless they're actually gamebreaking. Cull and Namor were not gamerbreaking.

Chovner

The time invested over the last 6 months for this re-balancing was a waste and should have been spent fully re-working Hulkbuster and someone else only. Namor, Cull, Maw, Human Torch, and Annihilus are only marginally better or worse, so what was the real return on investment for all the developer hours spent on slightly tweaking the numbers, extensive testing and basically stressing out the player base the whole time?

You guys need to find the happy medium between getting champs designed and out quicker than you can properly test them, and spending 6+ months to make small changes like "reduce regen from 6% to 3%" and "slightly increase stiffle/fury duration".

Also it seems like the whole idea of visibility keeps getting lost in the mix. It's great you took time to compile graphs and information to relay why you made the decisions you made, but you would have saved a lot of face (and constant forum posts), if you would have just given some progress posts with what you were trying out and working one OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS. People just want to know what general direction things are going in so they can start planning out what to do with resources, keeping everyone COMPLETELY in the dark the whole time, just to dump a whole lot of information at the end isn't what we want for transparency and visibility.

Neotwism

I was really hoping these rebalances would make some of the champs I don't use at least a viable option. None of these changes will make me want to use these champs any more than I did previously. I brought my unawakened 6* Maw into map 4 AQ to use against the first Corvus mini to see how it goes. It took 114 hits. How can u say his attack is better when it takes that many hits running suicides? I realize his degen would help if I awakened and wasted a ton of sigs on him but he just isn't worth it. He will continue to be a bench warmer. I hate to say it but u wasted your time rebalancing him.

mbrace

Gamechanger_3 said:

I have tested my Cull in the rebalance and while he does seem to take less damage it is not enough to make up for taking away his hitting power, used him today he hit like a pillow..... usually it would be a quick fight now takes a long time to complete just one fight, will be using other champs now and will be selling him, disappointed....

Are you just trolling, because they didn’t change the amount of damage that he takes. Also, the armor break is pretty nice now. He doesn’t seem to hit like a pillow at all with 6-7 armor breaks on the opponent. The thing that I do not like about his changes is that his play style is almost a mandatory parry/heavy like Hyperion or Colossus. That’s not always convenient.

Aleor

So I have a 6* maw now. Will I ever user him over 5* ss or 4* doom? The answer is no. He doesn't have any use over those champs, and nothing changed with that "balancing"