Widening Gap among Summoners

Horror_punkHorror_punk Posts: 926 ★★★
In recent days/months the gap between summoners has widened a lot because Kabam offering Higher end resources on Cash basis and limiting resources (rewards) in monthly events or special quests etc.

Though it’s ok to let the pay to play players at an advantage but now it seems impossible to even get a little closer to the top players.

E.g Gifting event was one such example. Similarly Abyss i would say (requiring a certain set of champs)

It’s a competitive game and i feel that there must be some scope for free2play or lesser paying players too so that they feel they can compete with others. But with the changes from past few months i feel either you need to dump a good cash to go up or donate handful of your time to grind units.

Maybe an overhaul to arenas (offering t2a/t5b) or SA (offering more 5*/6* shards) or Monthly quests is the need of hour to push the lower level guys.

Any other suggestions are welcomed

Thanks
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Comments

  • Horror_punkHorror_punk Posts: 926 ★★★
    DarthPhal said:

    You get out what you put in. I don’t see how a player who doesn’t invest time or money can expect to be competitive with those that do.

    Content clearing is important but contents aren’t giving much of the resources so that champs can be upgraded

    And time investment is necessary i agree but still you can’t catch it up
  • Horror_punkHorror_punk Posts: 926 ★★★
    dot_ditto said:


    It’s a competitive game and i feel that there must be some scope for free2play or lesser paying players too so that they feel they can compete with others.

    Hockey's a competitve game as well ... we should talk to the NHL and have them put limitations on Pro players, so the casual players can compete?
    ;)
    (tongue in cheek sarcasm) ..

    Nah, it's fine ... if you're not spending/playing to the degree the "whales" are, then you aren't *really* competing ... stop looking at the "top pros" and trying to compare .. find your level .. find you equal competition, and do what YOU can do ..

    ;)
    Being Pro is different and kept using resources to clear content or buy things is different

    If you clearing the content by sheer hardwork then it’s not debatable but buying high end resources without doing much is an issue of concern.
  • Horror_punkHorror_punk Posts: 926 ★★★
    Buttehrs said:

    DarthPhal said:

    You get out what you put in. I don’t see how a player who doesn’t invest time or money can expect to be competitive with those that do.

    Content clearing is important but contents aren’t giving much of the resources so that champs can be upgraded

    And time investment is necessary i agree but still you can’t catch it up
    I'd argue that since the introduction of variants and back issues, resources are way more abundant than ever before.
    I’ve cleared all of them yet i find that these resources offered just make you upgrade fewer champs but on the other hand through cash you get these in a week of gifting etc
  • Horror_punkHorror_punk Posts: 926 ★★★

    DarthPhal said:

    You get out what you put in. I don’t see how a player who doesn’t invest time or money can expect to be competitive with those that do.

    Content clearing is important but contents aren’t giving much of the resources so that champs can be upgraded

    And time investment is necessary i agree but still you can’t catch it up
    You never will. Spending saves time and energy. Those who spend great amounts will always be ahead of F2P. I never understood what started the comparison of F2P vs. P2P, but there's really no sense in trying to compare or catch up. The game is best played focusing on our own growth, rather than trying to keep up with people who spend. There will always be some kind of advantage to spending. That's what people pay for. Fortunately, it's not a requirement to play and enjoy this game. Only an option.
    I’m not saying they shouldn’t get advantage . Even I mentioned above that having a little bit of advantage is not an issue. But if say whole t5cc are offered for cash and that’s not available in quests etc then it’s an issue of concern.
  • Mcord11758Mcord11758 Posts: 1,257 ★★★★
    edited January 2020
    the gap has grown tremendously with the increase in cash offers. The last couple of months have sold more rewards than one can earn in game for a year outside of now AOL. I do not buy any of the cash offers and I have watched people pass me by sitting still who have completed far less content than I have.

    this increase is greater recently then anytime I could remember prior. you have people with 10+ K prestige who haven't even taken down the champion in 6.2

    This being said, I am ok with it. They spent the money, they get the leg up. If i wanted the leg up bad enough, I would have spent the money
  • Horror_punkHorror_punk Posts: 926 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    In recent days/months the gap between summoners has widened a lot because Kabam offering Higher end resources on Cash basis and limiting resources (rewards) in monthly events or special quests etc.

    Not really. There has always been a spread of players and the rewards they could achieve, and there's always been players such as yourself commenting on how the gap between summoners is widening specifically because of that situation. In fact, at one time the bottleneck resource was T4CC, and it was extremely difficult to get outside of being in a top prestige AQ alliance. In fact, T5B is easier to get today than T4CC was back in those days. Heck, T5CC is only slightly harder to get than T4CC was back then.

    Beyond that, the rewards achievable in the arenas are far higher than they used to be prior to the v12 update. It is not difficult to get hundreds if not thousands of units a month grinding for moderate amounts in the arenas, Uncollected rewards are not difficult for upper-moderate progress players to achieve, and even the calendars are generating far higher rewards than they used to. And the glory store was a huge improvement in the reward system for AQ, and has only gotten better over time.

    It has always been the case that to advance quickly in the game you either had to spend cash or spend time grinding in the game. That's always been true. The difference is today you get a lot more for your grind time than you used to get, and the bottleneck resources have more of a graduated constraint than a cliff face. An uncollected player in a Map 3/4 alliance can expect to get enough resources to rank up two or three rank 5s just from AQ and UC monthly events alone, much less special event rewards. Not that long ago that same player could not hope to make more than a single rank 4 in a year if that.

    To be blunt, the gap you're perceiving is between what you want and what you can get, not the gap between players in the game. The moderate middle progress players have never had it better in the game than they have now. They aren't going to catch up with the top players in the game, but they never could at any time in the game and frankly they never should be able to do that. But what they can do today is far more than what they could do, relative to what the top players can do today.
    @DNA3000 yes bro
    I think you nicely explained it. Maybe that’s the situation nowadays.

    Thanks for feedback and replies everyone
  • Horror_punkHorror_punk Posts: 926 ★★★

    the gap has grown tremendously with the increase in cash offers. The last couple of months have sold more rewards than one can earn in game for a year outside of now AOL. I do not buy any of the cash offers and I have watched people pass me by sitting still who have completed far less content than I have.

    this increase is greater recently then anytime I could remember prior. you have people with 10+ K prestige who haven't even taken down the champion in 6.2

    This being said, I am ok with it. They spent the money, they get the leg up. If i wanted the leg up bad enough, I would have spent the money

    Yes buddy

    I too mentioning the same thing but didn’t put it more elaborately
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,352 ★★★★★

    DarthPhal said:

    You get out what you put in. I don’t see how a player who doesn’t invest time or money can expect to be competitive with those that do.

    Content clearing is important but contents aren’t giving much of the resources so that champs can be upgraded

    And time investment is necessary i agree but still you can’t catch it up
    You never will. Spending saves time and energy. Those who spend great amounts will always be ahead of F2P. I never understood what started the comparison of F2P vs. P2P, but there's really no sense in trying to compare or catch up. The game is best played focusing on our own growth, rather than trying to keep up with people who spend. There will always be some kind of advantage to spending. That's what people pay for. Fortunately, it's not a requirement to play and enjoy this game. Only an option.
    I’m not saying they shouldn’t get advantage . Even I mentioned above that having a little bit of advantage is not an issue. But if say whole t5cc are offered for cash and that’s not available in quests etc then it’s an issue of concern.
    Not really. As DNA stated, Resources have changed as far as what's rare. Which means Offers will change containing what's rare. It's really not much of an advantage to offer something that's readily available in the game, and most Resources are. Which means they'll likely sell things that are rare from time to time. No matter how you look at it, people will be able to buy what F2P don't have access to. What they pay close attention to, as far as I know, is that this doesn't create a gap in any game-breaking way, or way that makes it impossible for others to progress.
  • dot_dittodot_ditto Posts: 1,211 ★★★
    edited January 2020

    dot_ditto said:


    It’s a competitive game and i feel that there must be some scope for free2play or lesser paying players too so that they feel they can compete with others.

    Hockey's a competitve game as well ... we should talk to the NHL and have them put limitations on Pro players, so the casual players can compete?
    ;)
    (tongue in cheek sarcasm) ..

    Nah, it's fine ... if you're not spending/playing to the degree the "whales" are, then you aren't *really* competing ... stop looking at the "top pros" and trying to compare .. find your level .. find you equal competition, and do what YOU can do ..

    ;)
    Being Pro is different and kept using resources to clear content or buy things is different

    If you clearing the content by sheer hardwork then it’s not debatable but buying high end resources without doing much is an issue of concern.
    So you're thinking these players have no skills, and just getting by via money ?

    ;) nope ... they've got both .. just like pro sports players (ie hockey, whatever) .. they spend the money on training, and many other things that help them play better ..

    It's a very close analogy, but you seem to think it's completely different.

    Now, that said, I believe what you're thinking, is comparable to a pro sports player juicing up on steroids ;)
    That "sucks" (and I don't condone it .. ) .. but it's also not really useful to focus on those as the "norm".

    The norm, would be the ones with the core skills .. plus a good wallet to support it.
    And there isn't anything wrong with that. They don't deserve to be "nerfed" because you feel you can't compete.
  • Horror_punkHorror_punk Posts: 926 ★★★
    dot_ditto said:

    dot_ditto said:


    It’s a competitive game and i feel that there must be some scope for free2play or lesser paying players too so that they feel they can compete with others.

    Hockey's a competitve game as well ... we should talk to the NHL and have them put limitations on Pro players, so the casual players can compete?
    ;)
    (tongue in cheek sarcasm) ..

    Nah, it's fine ... if you're not spending/playing to the degree the "whales" are, then you aren't *really* competing ... stop looking at the "top pros" and trying to compare .. find your level .. find you equal competition, and do what YOU can do ..

    ;)
    Being Pro is different and kept using resources to clear content or buy things is different

    If you clearing the content by sheer hardwork then it’s not debatable but buying high end resources without doing much is an issue of concern.
    So you're thinking these players have no skills, and just getting by via money ?

    ;) nope ... they've got both .. just like pro sports players (ie hockey, whatever) .. they spend the money on training, and many other things that help them play better ..

    It's a very close analogy, but you seem to think it's completely different.

    Now, that said, I believe what you're thinking, is comparable to a pro sports player juicing up on steroids ;)
    That "sucks" (and I don't condone it .. ) .. but it's also not really useful to focus on those as the "norm".

    The norm, would be the ones with the core skills .. plus a good wallet to support it.
    And there isn't anything wrong with that. They don't deserve to be "nerfed" because you feel you can't compete.
    Thanks for your feedback pal and adding dimension of sports in it
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,327 Guardian

    DarthPhal said:

    You get out what you put in. I don’t see how a player who doesn’t invest time or money can expect to be competitive with those that do.

    Content clearing is important but contents aren’t giving much of the resources so that champs can be upgraded

    And time investment is necessary i agree but still you can’t catch it up
    You never will. Spending saves time and energy. Those who spend great amounts will always be ahead of F2P. I never understood what started the comparison of F2P vs. P2P, but there's really no sense in trying to compare or catch up. The game is best played focusing on our own growth, rather than trying to keep up with people who spend. There will always be some kind of advantage to spending. That's what people pay for. Fortunately, it's not a requirement to play and enjoy this game. Only an option.
    I’m not saying they shouldn’t get advantage . Even I mentioned above that having a little bit of advantage is not an issue. But if say whole t5cc are offered for cash and that’s not available in quests etc then it’s an issue of concern.
    If the only way to get T5CC is with cash that would be a paywall, and that's generally not good for F2P games. But that's not the case in MCOC. T5CC is available in content. It isn't easy to get, and it is often time consuming to get, and there's no way to get a lot of it quickly, but it is available in content. This is a question of degree: how much money should it take to buy, verses how much time (both in terms of gameplay and in terms of the rate at which it is released in content) should it take to acquire in the game. And we're talking in this case about the rarest rank up material that exists, so its going to be both expensive to buy and extremely difficult and time consuming to acquire.

    AND they can only be used on 6* champs which are themselves harder to get, more expensive to rank up, and don't even offer the same relative benefit when you do rank them up. Every T2A and T5B you pour into a 6* champ to use that T5CC is literally multiple rank 5s you're forgoing. Unless you're at a progress level where you can easily get a lot of those, even if I straight up hand you a T5CC there's not much you can do with it, and spending it on a 6* champ could actually make your overall roster worse.

    If someone buys a bunch of T5CC crystals and you don't they aren't creating a gap between them and you as much as they are just leveraging a gap that already exists. Because those T5CC are only useful to them if they are way, way ahead of you already.
  • Horror_punkHorror_punk Posts: 926 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    DarthPhal said:

    You get out what you put in. I don’t see how a player who doesn’t invest time or money can expect to be competitive with those that do.

    Content clearing is important but contents aren’t giving much of the resources so that champs can be upgraded

    And time investment is necessary i agree but still you can’t catch it up
    You never will. Spending saves time and energy. Those who spend great amounts will always be ahead of F2P. I never understood what started the comparison of F2P vs. P2P, but there's really no sense in trying to compare or catch up. The game is best played focusing on our own growth, rather than trying to keep up with people who spend. There will always be some kind of advantage to spending. That's what people pay for. Fortunately, it's not a requirement to play and enjoy this game. Only an option.
    I’m not saying they shouldn’t get advantage . Even I mentioned above that having a little bit of advantage is not an issue. But if say whole t5cc are offered for cash and that’s not available in quests etc then it’s an issue of concern.
    If the only way to get T5CC is with cash that would be a paywall, and that's generally not good for F2P games. But that's not the case in MCOC. T5CC is available in content. It isn't easy to get, and it is often time consuming to get, and there's no way to get a lot of it quickly, but it is available in content. This is a question of degree: how much money should it take to buy, verses how much time (both in terms of gameplay and in terms of the rate at which it is released in content) should it take to acquire in the game. And we're talking in this case about the rarest rank up material that exists, so its going to be both expensive to buy and extremely difficult and time consuming to acquire.

    AND they can only be used on 6* champs which are themselves harder to get, more expensive to rank up, and don't even offer the same relative benefit when you do rank them up. Every T2A and T5B you pour into a 6* champ to use that T5CC is literally multiple rank 5s you're forgoing. Unless you're at a progress level where you can easily get a lot of those, even if I straight up hand you a T5CC there's not much you can do with it, and spending it on a 6* champ could actually make your overall roster worse.

    If someone buys a bunch of T5CC crystals and you don't they aren't creating a gap between them and you as much as they are just leveraging a gap that already exists. Because those T5CC are only useful to them if they are way, way ahead of you already.
    @DNA3000 yes bro you already explained it well and thanks again for your time on wonderful explanation.

    But at the same time what @Mcord11758 said above isn’t an issue???

    Please throw some light on it as well
  • RogerRabsRogerRabs Posts: 547 ★★★★
    I think there definitely is a wider gap now than before Cavalier crystals were introduced. The game has definitely been rewarding roster depth and Cav crystals have allowed people to rapidly expand their rosters in exchange for cash.

    But I've just learned to accept this. The more profitable the game is the longer it will last and the more investment they will make towards improving it. And aside from a few small areas (like never being able to compete for top 150 in arena) the top end players don't really affect me that much. The sooner you can focus on your own experience and ignore the rest, the happier you will likely be.
  • Mcord11758Mcord11758 Posts: 1,257 ★★★★
    I dont find it to be an issue but it is there
  • GluteusMaximusGluteusMaximus Posts: 1,415 ★★★
    no one ever mentions poor kabam/mcoc and their struggles to keep up. PUBG and Candy Crush is understandable, but now Roblox and GARDENSCAPES are slapping them silly in gross revenue?
    Gaps are widening everywhere...
  • ESFESF Posts: 1,557 ★★★★★
    I don't know what to tell anyone about this that we haven't said or heard 1,000,000 times before but at some point, people have to understand what this game experience is.

    We aren't all the same. Some people want to play in alliances, some don't. Some people have time to grind, some don't.

    Some people spend money, some don't.

    There is always going to be something to separate players. Always.

    But this delusion that people who actually spend money -- real money -- but shouldn't get value that Kabam and the spender mutually agree upon...that is just not how the real world works.

    I understand that some people who post are kids who don't understand this fact of life, but this is a business.

    People who spend money want value for it.

    We can go back and forth about fairness and competition but this is business and Kabam as the seller and spenders as buyers are going to do what is necessary to find mutual agreement
  • Horror_punkHorror_punk Posts: 926 ★★★
    Yes business it is.
    Have to go with their pace
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,327 Guardian

    @DNA3000 yes bro you already explained it well and thanks again for your time on wonderful explanation.

    But at the same time what @Mcord11758 said above isn’t an issue???

    Please throw some light on it as well

    All he said was that he's seen spenders pass him by but he's okay with that because, if I am interpreting his post correctly, he feels that the value they are getting for their money is a reasonable thing to give to players who spend, whereas he doesn't spend for those rewards and is fine with that.

    That's supposed to be how it works.
  • Horror_punkHorror_punk Posts: 926 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    @DNA3000 yes bro you already explained it well and thanks again for your time on wonderful explanation.

    But at the same time what @Mcord11758 said above isn’t an issue???

    Please throw some light on it as well

    All he said was that he's seen spenders pass him by but he's okay with that because, if I am interpreting his post correctly, he feels that the value they are getting for their money is a reasonable thing to give to players who spend, whereas he doesn't spend for those rewards and is fine with that.

    That's supposed to be how it works.
    Ok bro
    Maybe i need to step into his shoes too
    Comparing isn’t good then
    Will enjoy the stuffs now on

    Thanks @DNA3000 you always give good advice or suggestions on forums. Keep it up bro
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,327 Guardian
    RogerRabs said:

    I think there definitely is a wider gap now than before Cavalier crystals were introduced. The game has definitely been rewarding roster depth and Cav crystals have allowed people to rapidly expand their rosters in exchange for cash.

    Since Cav crystals are purchased with units, they more generally reward players who spend or who grind, which the game has always rewarded. Of course no one can grind the equivalent of tens of thousands of dollars like the top spenders do, but they can approach a thousand dollars of Cavs a year with nothing but high (but not ludicrous) amounts of gameplay and no cash.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 12,327 Guardian

    Comparing isn’t good then

    It isn't healthy to compare to others unless you can put some distance in there. But what is generally more healthy is to compare yourself to you, a year ago. It can be hard to see progress when you think in terms of days or weeks or even months. But when I compare myself to a year ago, or two, or three, I can see huge progress.

    Or you can flip this around. There's a guy a year in the future you can help today. A little grind, a little practice, some smart rank ups, and he's going to have a much better game. Do it for him.
  • Horror_punkHorror_punk Posts: 926 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Comparing isn’t good then

    It isn't healthy to compare to others unless you can put some distance in there. But what is generally more healthy is to compare yourself to you, a year ago. It can be hard to see progress when you think in terms of days or weeks or even months. But when I compare myself to a year ago, or two, or three, I can see huge progress.

    Or you can flip this around. There's a guy a year in the future you can help today. A little grind, a little practice, some smart rank ups, and he's going to have a much better game. Do it for him.
    Yeah bro
    Been playing since 5 years and recently did LOL 100%. Also all the Variants are explored except current one (due to 1* hulk)

    I can say that there’s a good level of progression I’ve achieved. I never thought of doing LOL after I completed my first run way back with 4* SL but now it feels good that i did it.
    Same goes with story quests.

    And yess I’ll do it for that future guy definitely 🙂
  • Timone147Timone147 Posts: 1,265 ★★★★
    So while I get where you are coming from I disagree with the premise on a gap. In roster size and resource availability ya there is a gap. But truth be told if used right you have the resources available to clear all the content in the game except for some fights that can create road blocks without the right champs at your disposal.

    Due to time constraints in real life I play in a relatively low key alliance for my skill level these days(and have for well over a year coming off a 6 month break before that) that runs map 4 and play AW tier 5-7 on average to place in gold 1. I also do not spend on the game. I do arena though for units.

    I still have a roster with enough solid champs at a high enough levels to have all variants but variant 1 explored 100%(just need to wrap up exploring the 3rd chapter of 1 after circling back to it), have 6.1 100%, 6.2 exploration started and 6.3 completion done and am looking at taking a run at easy path of abyss after watching live streams in about 1-2 months once I’ve saved the units and hopefully pull fury(sitting on skill awakening gem and r5 gem for him currently).

    It’s a game that does offer advantage to those willing to shell out money. If you aren’t then you need to play the game smarter with resource allocation and unit use and also need to prioritize every rank up in your roster at giving you something you need in your toolkit to to help you clear content.

    Don’t get caught up in the massive roster PI or the prestige chase unless your willing to shell out a ton of time or money to keep up. Better off focusing on building the skills and roster to keep up with the content being released.
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