Tenacity incorrectly shrugging off Claire's buff immunity

Deli

I'm running the tenacity path in act 6.4.6. The tenacity node clearly states it shrugs off debuffs, however it is shrugging off Claire's buff immunity as well.

PeaRat

Claire’s buff immunity is a debuff.

Hammerbro_64

If it was a buff wouldn’t everyone shrug it off because it’s a BUFF?

PeaRat

It is definitely a debuff as it is red and applied to the opponent. Why would something that stops you from getting buffs on you be a buff?
99% sure it is a debuff you apply to stop opponent from gaining buffs.

TheInfinty

Deli said:

PeaRat said:

Claire’s buff immunity is a debuff.

Actually I'm %99 prevent sure it's a buff because if it was a debuff it would simply be fate seal

You do realize that different ability’s on different champs can have different names fate seal and buff immunity are basically the same thing just with different names

NOOOOOOOOPEEEEE

Its not called fate seal because there are some champs immune to fate seal

Maldroit2

Buff immunity is a debuff

DNA3000

PeaRat said:

It is definitely a debuff as it is red and applied to the opponent. Why would something that stops you from getting buffs on you be a buff?

You can't use that kind of logic, because game mechanics are what they are so that they work as intended, not so they sound like they should sound. For example, Loas are buffs, not debuffs. They are most definitely not beneficial effects, but Loas are buffs so that champions that can shrug off debuffs don't affect them, while Voodoo can nullify them. So Loas are buffs because that's what we need them to be to work as they should, regardless of whether they are "buffs" in the colloquial sense.

Repto23

By the wording i believe its a debuff, here is the wording from BWCV and Voodoo with his Loa's

It says she INFLICTS them

PsyLife

It is definitely a buff or debuff, and if it were a buff, she would nullify it. Fate seal nullifies buffs.

CoatHang3r

The pause menu answers this.

Kabam Miike

Hey all,

They are both Debuffs, and they can both be affected by Tenacity. The difference is that Fate Seal Nullifies Buffs, while Buff Immunity purifies/prevents debuffs, the way an immunity prevents them. It's a little confusing sounding, but it's this way so it interacts with certain nodes/masteries/abilities.

For instance, some nodes and abilities will only trigger when a Buff is nullified, and this does not affect that.

Demonzfyre

CoatHang3r said:

The pause menu answers this.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

BitterSteel

Kabam Miike said:

Hey all,

They are both Debuffs, and they can both be affected by Tenacity. The difference is that Fate Seal Nullifies Buffs, while Buff Immunity purifies/prevents debuffs, the way an immunity prevents them. It's a little confusing sounding, but it's this way so it interacts with certain nodes/masteries/abilities.

For instance, some nodes and abilities will only trigger when a Buff is nullified, and this does not affect that.

Interesting, do you have any specific examples of where buff immunity and fate seal interact with those nodes differently? I don’t have a Claire so can’t test, is there some interaction with for example MD

CoatHang3r

Kabam Miike said:

Hey all,

They are both Debuffs, and they can both be affected by Tenacity. The difference is that Fate Seal Nullifies Buffs, while Buff Immunity purifies/prevents debuffs, the way an immunity prevents them. It's a little confusing sounding, but it's this way so it interacts with certain nodes/masteries/abilities.

For instance, some nodes and abilities will only trigger when a Buff is nullified, and this does not affect that.

“Buff Immunity purifies/prevents debuffs”?

Championcritic

Kabam Miike said:

Hey all,

They are both Debuffs, and they can both be affected by Tenacity. The difference is that Fate Seal Nullifies Buffs, while Buff Immunity purifies/prevents debuffs, the way an immunity prevents them. It's a little confusing sounding, but it's this way so it interacts with certain nodes/masteries/abilities.

For instance, some nodes and abilities will only trigger when a Buff is nullified, and this does not affect that.

You typed it wrong, buff immunity purifies/prevents buffs.

DNA3000

CoatHang3r said:

Kabam Miike said:

Hey all,

They are both Debuffs, and they can both be affected by Tenacity. The difference is that Fate Seal Nullifies Buffs, while Buff Immunity purifies/prevents debuffs, the way an immunity prevents them. It's a little confusing sounding, but it's this way so it interacts with certain nodes/masteries/abilities.

For instance, some nodes and abilities will only trigger when a Buff is nullified, and this does not affect that.

“Buff Immunity purifies/prevents debuffs”?

That's technical jargon leaking in. "Purify" is actually a type of modifier, but that's a very complex discussion. The short and not perfectly correct thing to say here is that what we players call "immunity" is (usually) implemented in the game as a "purify" effect which acts like an effect shield: it prevents such effects from applying to the target.

@Kabam Miike probably shouldn't refer to immunity as purify, as the only player-facing meaning for "purify" is closer in meaning to "nullify" not "immunity" in the context of debuffs (See: Void). It is just that the game engine implementation blurs this distinction.

CoatHang3r

DNA3000 said:

CoatHang3r said:

Kabam Miike said:

Hey all,

They are both Debuffs, and they can both be affected by Tenacity. The difference is that Fate Seal Nullifies Buffs, while Buff Immunity purifies/prevents debuffs, the way an immunity prevents them. It's a little confusing sounding, but it's this way so it interacts with certain nodes/masteries/abilities.

For instance, some nodes and abilities will only trigger when a Buff is nullified, and this does not affect that.

“Buff Immunity purifies/prevents debuffs”?

That's technical jargon leaking in. "Purify" is actually a type of modifier, but that's a very complex discussion. The short and not perfectly correct thing to say here is that what we players call "immunity" is (usually) implemented in the game as a "purify" effect which acts like an effect shield: it prevents such effects from applying to the target.

@Kabam Miike probably shouldn't refer to immunity as purify, as the only player-facing meaning for "purify" is closer in meaning to "nullify" not "immunity" in the context of debuffs (See: Void). It is just that the game engine implementation blurs this distinction.

It does purify existing buffs and then prevents them from applying. I was questioning the usage of debuffs instead of Buffs as my CV does not purify/prevent debuffs.

DNA3000

CoatHang3r said:

DNA3000 said:

CoatHang3r said:

Kabam Miike said:

Hey all,

They are both Debuffs, and they can both be affected by Tenacity. The difference is that Fate Seal Nullifies Buffs, while Buff Immunity purifies/prevents debuffs, the way an immunity prevents them. It's a little confusing sounding, but it's this way so it interacts with certain nodes/masteries/abilities.

For instance, some nodes and abilities will only trigger when a Buff is nullified, and this does not affect that.

“Buff Immunity purifies/prevents debuffs”?

That's technical jargon leaking in. "Purify" is actually a type of modifier, but that's a very complex discussion. The short and not perfectly correct thing to say here is that what we players call "immunity" is (usually) implemented in the game as a "purify" effect which acts like an effect shield: it prevents such effects from applying to the target.

@Kabam Miike probably shouldn't refer to immunity as purify, as the only player-facing meaning for "purify" is closer in meaning to "nullify" not "immunity" in the context of debuffs (See: Void). It is just that the game engine implementation blurs this distinction.

It does purify existing buffs and then prevents them from applying. I was questioning the usage of debuffs instead of Buffs as my CV does not purify/prevent debuffs.

I'm sorry, yes, that's a typo; it should be Buffs not Debuffs.