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Flow global node in War [Merged Threads]

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Comments

  • KeepinItRealKeepinItReal Posts: 229
    edited May 2020
    The Flow/#Control tactic is so ridiculous most of our allies want to take Season 18 off,...accumulate revives, potions, boosts & hope to God they can buy Vision, pull a 5 or 6* Guilly99, Ghost +Hood or 5* Quake, Magik (then master how to play Ghost or Quake). Thought D.Tactics were meant to make AW more fun, switch attackers & defenders up & add AWD Placement strategy? Not hate seeing 1-2 Douche Tactics. If we see Flow Global, we start the AW frustrated. Yup, unless changed,....we'll just chill in S18.
  • Mninobody said:

    @Kabam Miike can we ask who you (meaning the decision maker) spoke to in restructuring this node and what feedback you used to come to this decision? Wondering if you all understood the overwhelming response to this node made many either stop or want to stop AW? I believe Kabam’s intent is to make things fun and challenging and want to make sure you all are truly understanding the taste this is leaving.
    Can we get clarity into your decision and why?

    The decisions were made on a number of factors, including the feedback in this thread and other areas of the Community. We agreed that it's too hard to work around, and more punishing in higher tiers (the stack limit was 5 and 4 in the highest tiers).

    This is still meant to be a challenge and change up what Champions you choose to bring into War, as Defense Tactics have always meant to do. Alliance War is competitive and is not meant to be easy.
    This doesn't change anything. In fact it forces you to bring only a few champs into war. Don't understand how you folks can't get that simple logic. You've taken literally no feedback from this thread other than the fact that it's harder when you can't stun. The point is that the power gain sucks. Plain and simple.
    You've literally made it so that noone runs anything but flow. Good going.
    This makes significantly more Champions able to deal with this node. While Stun may no longer be able to end the Power Gain, every Champion is capable of a well timed Block, and Stun/Debuff immune nodes will no longer be a hard stop.

    Champions with Power Control or no Critical Hits will always be the best choice though. That is the intention of this tactic.
  • Amadeo01Amadeo01 Posts: 212 ★★★
    So since it must be a well timed block and stun doesn't stop flow anymore, I guess that toggle unblockable nodes are going to be real fun times
  • PirateJonPirateJon Posts: 82
    @Kabam Miike it was already max 3 stacks at all tiers. Reduce to 1 stack and lower %. Otherwise everyone is forced to use quake.
  • KeepinItRealKeepinItReal Posts: 229
    edited May 2020

    Mninobody said:

    @Kabam Miike can we ask who you (meaning the decision maker) spoke to in restructuring this node and what feedback you used to come to this decision? Wondering if you all understood the overwhelming response to this node made many either stop or want to stop AW? I believe Kabam’s intent is to make things fun and challenging and want to make sure you all are truly understanding the taste this is leaving.
    Can we get clarity into your decision and why?

    The decisions were made on a number of factors, including the feedback in this thread and other areas of the Community. We agreed that it's too hard to work around, and more punishing in higher tiers (the stack limit was 5 and 4 in the highest tiers).

    This is still meant to be a challenge and change up what Champions you choose to bring into War, as Defense Tactics have always meant to do. Alliance War is competitive and is not meant to be easy.
    This doesn't change anything. In fact it forces you to bring only a few champs into war. Don't understand how you folks can't get that simple logic. You've taken literally no feedback from this thread other than the fact that it's harder when you can't stun. The point is that the power gain sucks. Plain and simple.
    You've literally made it so that noone runs anything but flow. Good going.
    This makes significantly more Champions able to deal with this node. While Stun may no longer be able to end the Power Gain, every Champion is capable of a well timed Block, and Stun/Debuff immune nodes will no longer be a hard stop.

    Champions with Power Control or no Critical Hits will always be the best choice though. That is the intention of this tactic.
    Mike, pulling let's say even 1-10 out of 170+ Flow counters is completely RNG based. Can buy Vision if reasonably offered again. Plus some just haven't mastered or don't like attacking w/these counters.
    Most our allies are F2Play & some simply don't have any solid counters. So really sucks for them bc they struggle, gotta use items, get KO'd, others get frustrated, they feel bad & most have shared they want to take AW S18 off.
    Is this worth it for 1 D.Tactic. Uall have ALL the data on AWDefense champs, win %, etc by showing us when u openly disclosed or justified Re-Balancing. So u obviously prefer the items/units/$ spent over the fun, enjoyment & comraderie of allies in their alliance. Uall have been really alienating alot of veteran & F2Players recently. I'm sure 20% of whales create 80% of ur revenue. But if that 20% has nobody to compete against or just 80% doesn't play AWs,...ur gonna lose even more revenue from that game mode. It's just smart business to find a middle ground with MCOCommunity that keeps this game worth sticking around for. Appreciate all the time, effort, energy you/game team put into replying/dealing w/disgruntled customers to evolve in order continually keep us playing. Thank You.
  • DeaconDeacon Posts: 4,064 ★★★★★
    WHOz_R4GE said:

    Kabam the point of Defensive Tactics according to “you” was to make AW Dynamic. Meaning we don’t get the same AW over and over. All this change does is ensure Season 18 will be Flow 12/12 AWS for every alliance tier 5 and above. You might as well remove the other tactics to save the officers the trouble.

    i can attest to this. every matchup we had this season was Flow. smh i don't see this change doing anything really. what would help is changing the duration of the power gain from 15 seconds to 5 seconds. 10 seconds at the most. the huge problem right now is the rapid acceleration to Sp3 and there's really no hope after that. "just buy all those special 3 boosts man" .. well it shouldn't have to come to that although i'm sure that's the reason that boost has come up so often now.

    still, i think reducing the duration of the gain would be fair. it still limits who you can bring but it doesn't force you into praying someone has Guilly or Crossbones.
  • Sman74Sman74 Posts: 95
    edited May 2020
    The decisions were made on a number of factors, including the feedback in this thread and other areas of the Community. We agreed that it's too hard to work around, and more punishing in higher tiers (the stack limit was 5 and 4 in the highest tiers).

    That is fair and constructive feedback! I'll make sure it's passed on to the team. We are not going to change this Node again until you guys have had time to actually experience it and we can gather data on it. But if we find it's still too punishing, we will change it again.


    Messed up the quote feature above, don’t know how to fix. My comment below:

    Its not too late to reconsider. We have experienced the node plenty and all the data in this thread clearly shows no one in the player base likes this! It is and will continue to be punishing (a.k.a. NOT fun) with the proposed changes. Please not another season of this.
  • Sman74 said:

    The decisions were made on a number of factors, including the feedback in this thread and other areas of the Community. We agreed that it's too hard to work around, and more punishing in higher tiers (the stack limit was 5 and 4 in the highest tiers).

    That is fair and constructive feedback! I'll make sure it's passed on to the team. We are not going to change this Node again until you guys have had time to actually experience it and we can gather data on it. But if we find it's still too punishing, we will change it again.


    Messed up the quote feature above, don’t know how to fix. My comment below:

    Its not too late to reconsider. We have experienced the node plenty and all the data in this thread clearly shows no one in the player base likes this! It is and will continue to be punishing (a.k.a. NOT fun) with the proposed changes. Please not another season of this.

    To be clear, there is no data in this thread, but there are a lot of opinions and feedback, which we take in conjunction with Data and Playtests to make decisions.

    We are going to see how this new version affects War, collect Data and more feedback, and then make more decisions on the future of Flow.
  • PlantesanPlantesan Posts: 335 ★★

    A l p h a said:

    Mninobody said:

    @Kabam Miike can we ask who you (meaning the decision maker) spoke to in restructuring this node and what feedback you used to come to this decision? Wondering if you all understood the overwhelming response to this node made many either stop or want to stop AW? I believe Kabam’s intent is to make things fun and challenging and want to make sure you all are truly understanding the taste this is leaving.
    Can we get clarity into your decision and why?

    The decisions were made on a number of factors, including the feedback in this thread and other areas of the Community. We agreed that it's too hard to work around, and more punishing in higher tiers (the stack limit was 5 and 4 in the highest tiers).

    This is still meant to be a challenge and change up what Champions you choose to bring into War, as Defense Tactics have always meant to do. Alliance War is competitive and is not meant to be easy.
    TL:DR I dont recall it being able to stack above 3 in any tier, only difference being 35% per stack in t4 and 5 and 45% in tier 3 or above... at 3 stacks that's 135% power in 15 seconds... so 4 bars of power every 15 seconds... now lets say you get 3 crits straight away, congrats you now have an opponent that will gain 3 bars in around 11 seconds unless you can stun them, not even factoring in things like mystic dispersion and other factors (200% power gain/ 50% enhanced power effects etc)

    I used to enjoy seeing people bring unique attackers to war... i myself used to bring elsa and wasp, both of these champs are totally unusable on flow due to high crit chance and no power control! All you've done is make this node passable on stun immune... thats it!

    If this node must stay, it should only stack once... or at the very least needs a big reduction to the % per stack... maybe 15% and 20% instead of 35% and 45% ... its ridiculous and HEAVILY limits the champs you can use in attack phase... and if you don't have them... you're out of luck!

    I feel the whole defence tactic idea itself needs a rework... why not have nodes that make fights more challenging without limiting the counters....

    Opponents gain 50% damage during special attacks
    Opponents gains 50% passive fury when either champ is in the corner
    Opponents gain 20% armor everytime they're stunned but an intercept removes all stacks

    Just a bit of constructive feedback! This change to flow affects barely nothing!
    That is fair and constructive feedback! I'll make sure it's passed on to the team. We are not going to change this Node again until you guys have had time to actually experience it and we can gather data on it. But if we find it's still too punishing, we will change it again.
    Can you bring to the team the idea of possibly adding a filter so alliances can choose to fight with another defense tactic team or no tactic at all? Or similar to AQ, water down the effectiveness to the tactics if you use it more than once an AW cycle.

    I’m sure it’s more complex than I’m suggesting, but losing ally mates because you guys want to “challenge” us with this is infuriating. It’s flow wars now, read the room a bit longer please
  • edited May 2020
    Plantesan said:

    A l p h a said:

    Mninobody said:

    @Kabam Miike can we ask who you (meaning the decision maker) spoke to in restructuring this node and what feedback you used to come to this decision? Wondering if you all understood the overwhelming response to this node made many either stop or want to stop AW? I believe Kabam’s intent is to make things fun and challenging and want to make sure you all are truly understanding the taste this is leaving.
    Can we get clarity into your decision and why?

    The decisions were made on a number of factors, including the feedback in this thread and other areas of the Community. We agreed that it's too hard to work around, and more punishing in higher tiers (the stack limit was 5 and 4 in the highest tiers).

    This is still meant to be a challenge and change up what Champions you choose to bring into War, as Defense Tactics have always meant to do. Alliance War is competitive and is not meant to be easy.
    TL:DR I dont recall it being able to stack above 3 in any tier, only difference being 35% per stack in t4 and 5 and 45% in tier 3 or above... at 3 stacks that's 135% power in 15 seconds... so 4 bars of power every 15 seconds... now lets say you get 3 crits straight away, congrats you now have an opponent that will gain 3 bars in around 11 seconds unless you can stun them, not even factoring in things like mystic dispersion and other factors (200% power gain/ 50% enhanced power effects etc)

    I used to enjoy seeing people bring unique attackers to war... i myself used to bring elsa and wasp, both of these champs are totally unusable on flow due to high crit chance and no power control! All you've done is make this node passable on stun immune... thats it!

    If this node must stay, it should only stack once... or at the very least needs a big reduction to the % per stack... maybe 15% and 20% instead of 35% and 45% ... its ridiculous and HEAVILY limits the champs you can use in attack phase... and if you don't have them... you're out of luck!

    I feel the whole defence tactic idea itself needs a rework... why not have nodes that make fights more challenging without limiting the counters....

    Opponents gain 50% damage during special attacks
    Opponents gains 50% passive fury when either champ is in the corner
    Opponents gain 20% armor everytime they're stunned but an intercept removes all stacks

    Just a bit of constructive feedback! This change to flow affects barely nothing!
    That is fair and constructive feedback! I'll make sure it's passed on to the team. We are not going to change this Node again until you guys have had time to actually experience it and we can gather data on it. But if we find it's still too punishing, we will change it again.
    Can you bring to the team the idea of possibly adding a filter so alliances can choose to fight with another defense tactic team or no tactic at all? Or similar to AQ, water down the effectiveness to the tactics if you use it more than once an AW cycle.

    I’m sure it’s more complex than I’m suggesting, but losing ally mates because you guys want to “challenge” us with this is infuriating. It’s flow wars now, read the room a bit longer please
    That's an interesting idea. I will definitely raise that to the team (Watering down the effectiveness if used multiple times).
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,238 ★★★★★
    To be the Geico guy, I think people are upset because they wanted it taken out completely, for the most part. Some had suggested limiting it to one Stack. On the other side, they've said it's still meant to provide a challenge, and they were open to changing it again if need be, so I think it's fair to wait and see how things go next Season. You can always come back and register more feedback, but I tend to agree with what I stated earlier. It's meant to provide a certain degree of challenge by limiting what you can use.
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