Flow global node in War [Merged Threads]

Worknprogress

Justapilgrim said:

Not sure what everyone is complaining about. My r5 Mojo War bods was just soloed in the last war using magik. I took my magik and g2099 up to r5 just to counter this defense and the alliance invested heavily into ranking flow champs just for defense and now they nerf it?

I am just getting sick of the bait and switches. If the idea is to make the defense global weak then make it weak from the start. Don't bring out a crazy hard defensive node and then water it down after some people counter it and invest into it.

Good magik players have been soloing mojo all season long. Plus this is barely a change let alone a nerf

Das_gi

Justapilgrim said:

Not sure what everyone is complaining about. My r5 Mojo War bods was just soloed in the last war using magik. I took my magik and g2099 up to r5 just to counter this defense and the alliance invested heavily into ranking flow champs just for defense and now they nerf it?

I am just getting sick of the bait and switches. If the idea is to make the defense global weak then make it weak from the start. Don't bring out a crazy hard defensive node and then water it down after some people counter it and invest into it.

Don’t complain that you had to rank up G2099 and magik cause those are both awesome champs.

That said, which champs did they upgrade for defense? Mojo, warlock, dormammu, mr sinister? Except for warlock those are all affected by siphon as well. If someone upgraded a diablo to go with flow defense well then that just isn’t very bright

Das_gi

LeovaM said:

@Kabam Miike , don't make this more awful, yes, you added "Well-Timed Blocks", that's perfect, magnificent, so we can now deal with this global on Stun/Debuff immune nodes, but why, god damn, WHY you removed "Stunning the opponent" from it??? This makes champs that we got used to use on AW this season complete **** for the next, and I'm talking about Doctor Doom, Wasp, and many other champions who can stun the opponents with their abilities, not with just parry.

Well yeah this change totally **** over champs like doom, gp and so on cause now there will even be less counters to flow which you can use

LeovaM

Das_gi said:

LeovaM said:

@Kabam Miike , don't make this more awful, yes, you added "Well-Timed Blocks", that's perfect, magnificent, so we can now deal with this global on Stun/Debuff immune nodes, but why, god damn, WHY you removed "Stunning the opponent" from it??? This makes champs that we got used to use on AW this season complete **** for the next, and I'm talking about Doctor Doom, Wasp, and many other champions who can stun the opponents with their abilities, not with just parry.

Well yeah this change totally **** over champs like doom, gp and so on cause now there will even be less counters to flow which you can use

Actually yes, but no. You see, now you can well time block them, so for mini-bosses this isn't just Quake/G2099/Crossbones(lol)/whatsoever, you can use usual champs like ghost/corvus/omega/etc. and hope that having 3 stacks of that damn energy passive they will not turn them into passive defensive mother f-ers, and they will attack you so you can well time block them. The point is, that I used to play Doom, who was perfect for Aegis nodes. 10 out of 12 wars I had Mordo on Aegis Heavy, and he was punch-bag for me with Doom, I just shocked him, heavy-attacked, and boom, no stacks of energy. Now this will not work, because Well-Time block does not mean Stun opponents. The same way will gonna be with Wasp and many others, who have the utility to stun champions with their heavy or special attacks.

@Kabam Miike , I'm asking...actually no, I'm begging you, please, report THIS, as you say, to the developers team, and return that energy removing with Stunning the opponents, don't leave Well-Time Blocks only.

Bugmat78

Kabam Miike said:

PirateJon said:

@Kabam Miike it was already max 3 stacks at all tiers. Reduce to 1 stack and lower %. Otherwise everyone is forced to use quake.

Yeah, looks like I was looking at unused Nodes. This is still going to be where we keep it for now though. We will adjust again if we need to in the future.

So glad I'm done with this season of tier 5 and Flow. I'll be chilling in AQ-only alliances from now on, and clearing content. AW sucks with these "tactics"that are equivalent to pushing the big red button every war. Not worth it for a couple t2a and t5b I can get easily from a couple weeks of AQ.

Justapilgrim

Das_gi said:

Justapilgrim said:

Not sure what everyone is complaining about. My r5 Mojo War bods was just soloed in the last war using magik. I took my magik and g2099 up to r5 just to counter this defense and the alliance invested heavily into ranking flow champs just for defense and now they nerf it?

I am just getting sick of the bait and switches. If the idea is to make the defense global weak then make it weak from the start. Don't bring out a crazy hard defensive node and then water it down after some people counter it and invest into it.

Don’t complain that you had to rank up G2099 and magik cause those are both awesome champs.

That said, which champs did they upgrade for defense? Mojo, warlock, dormammu, mr sinister? Except for warlock those are all affected by siphon as well. If someone upgraded a diablo to go with flow defense well then that just isn’t very bright

It's still a bait and switch maneuver. Those champions you listed are nowhere near as good on Siphon as they are on Flow. And I wouldn't have even ranked up Magik or G2099 had I known I could just shut off the Flow Power Gains with a well-timed block. IMIW won't have near the usefulness either since you can just well-time block his projectile attack and shut off the power gain as well.

Don't get me wrong. War is going to be 100% easier for us on attack as well. But they are punishing people who invested into and adapted to the system they created. They have been doing this a lot lately. Creating content, and then realizing months later that they want to change it. That's why you're supposed to do extensive testing on this stuff before you release it to the public. There's absolutely no reason this should be happening as often as it does.

Justapilgrim

Cue the creation of a new Defensive Global that's also insanely broken, leading alliances to use materials to counter it, only for it to be nerfd 2 or 3 seasons later....

Das_gi

Justapilgrim said:

Das_gi said:

Justapilgrim said:

Not sure what everyone is complaining about. My r5 Mojo War bods was just soloed in the last war using magik. I took my magik and g2099 up to r5 just to counter this defense and the alliance invested heavily into ranking flow champs just for defense and now they nerf it?

I am just getting sick of the bait and switches. If the idea is to make the defense global weak then make it weak from the start. Don't bring out a crazy hard defensive node and then water it down after some people counter it and invest into it.

Don’t complain that you had to rank up G2099 and magik cause those are both awesome champs.

That said, which champs did they upgrade for defense? Mojo, warlock, dormammu, mr sinister? Except for warlock those are all affected by siphon as well. If someone upgraded a diablo to go with flow defense well then that just isn’t very bright

It's still a bait and switch maneuver. Those champions you listed are nowhere near as good on Siphon as they are on Flow. And I wouldn't have even ranked up Magik or G2099 had I known I could just shut off the Flow Power Gains with a well-timed block. IMIW won't have near the usefulness either since you can just well-time block his projectile attack and shut off the power gain as well.

Don't get me wrong. War is going to be 100% easier for us on attack as well. But they are punishing people who invested into and adapted to the system they created. They have been doing this a lot lately. Creating content, and then realizing months later that they want to change it. That's why you're supposed to do extensive testing on this stuff before you release it to the public. There's absolutely no reason this should be happening as often as it does.

Then you really have no idea how good magik and G2099 are. A charged G2099 outdamages every other champ against a 200k+ life opponent, she takes almost no block damage with her armor and she has a nice heal at 15% cause only a baboon uses her pre-fight abilities.

There has never been a better power control champ in the game than magik. You might say her damage sucks but then I dare you to bring warlock with her.

The fact that you don’t know how great those two champs are just shows me you’re at best an average player.

As to their use for siphon. Magik can heal back all the block damage from blocked hits when she is in limbo so she’s equally great. G2099 might be outpowered by warlock for siphon because of his greater health pool but the difference ain’t that big

pseudosane

This change is laughable. The team is so out of touch with their player base it is almost comical. Your counter to G99 miss cannot be used..... due to flow. Well timed block makes it necessary to take block damage to stop powergain; impossible to do on counter tactics. 2 months of negative feedback and they actually "buff" the node to make it even more specific. The AI doesnt rush at you, they turtle. Does this change improve the situation? No. It absolutely does not. You took a month now to provide a half baked solution that does not change a thing. This change guarantees that folks will not give two **** about war anymore.

Pancake_Face

flow sucks so bad thats why my alliance stopped war altogether

Primmer79

*and this is definitely not a response*

I think we need to give it a shot, because it is something, but im not sure i totally enjoy the 'making it a buff' idea either. I still hate this whole idea of a whole roster of champions who's abilities require you to crit, or end fights quickly and hoping for a crit, to now punishing for a crit, with few options (I dont need suggestions for counters, I have a few and theyve helped me greatly).

The ability to remove it regardless of stun is nice, but that still means youll be taking block damage for 3-5 hits because you know the AI will make sure we take the block damage.

This feels so specialized it should be a node or a route - not a global.

Thecurler

What is it with this forum and people creating new thread after new thread when there is an existing thread on the same subject.
I don't understand, please explain?

Justapilgrim

Das_gi said:

Justapilgrim said:

Das_gi said:

Justapilgrim said:

Not sure what everyone is complaining about. My r5 Mojo War bods was just soloed in the last war using magik. I took my magik and g2099 up to r5 just to counter this defense and the alliance invested heavily into ranking flow champs just for defense and now they nerf it?

I am just getting sick of the bait and switches. If the idea is to make the defense global weak then make it weak from the start. Don't bring out a crazy hard defensive node and then water it down after some people counter it and invest into it.

Don’t complain that you had to rank up G2099 and magik cause those are both awesome champs.

That said, which champs did they upgrade for defense? Mojo, warlock, dormammu, mr sinister? Except for warlock those are all affected by siphon as well. If someone upgraded a diablo to go with flow defense well then that just isn’t very bright

It's still a bait and switch maneuver. Those champions you listed are nowhere near as good on Siphon as they are on Flow. And I wouldn't have even ranked up Magik or G2099 had I known I could just shut off the Flow Power Gains with a well-timed block. IMIW won't have near the usefulness either since you can just well-time block his projectile attack and shut off the power gain as well.

Don't get me wrong. War is going to be 100% easier for us on attack as well. But they are punishing people who invested into and adapted to the system they created. They have been doing this a lot lately. Creating content, and then realizing months later that they want to change it. That's why you're supposed to do extensive testing on this stuff before you release it to the public. There's absolutely no reason this should be happening as often as it does.

Then you really have no idea how good magik and G2099 are. A charged G2099 outdamages every other champ against a 200k+ life opponent, she takes almost no block damage with her armor and she has a nice heal at 15% cause only a baboon uses her pre-fight abilities.

There has never been a better power control champ in the game than magik. You might say her damage sucks but then I dare you to bring warlock with her.

The fact that you don’t know how great those two champs are just shows me you’re at best an average player.

As to their use for siphon. Magik can heal back all the block damage from blocked hits when she is in limbo so she’s equally great. G2099 might be outpowered by warlock for siphon because of his greater health pool but the difference ain’t that big

I have moved on from 5* and am focused solely on 6* champions at this point. I have no content to do, as everything is 100% completed. AoL Legend run, 100% Act 6, all Variants. Everything. Done. I have a full T5CC Tech for G2099 as a 6* when I pull her. I have 27 R5 5* champions. R3 Dominio, Doom, Cap IW and Morningstar as soon as I get a few thousand more T5B as well as R2 Sabretooth, Corvus, Sym Supreme, Havok and Thing.

However, as I said, I ranked Magik and G2099 as 5* to help cope with the Flow node.I typically use Morningstar to counter any champion that gets Power gain as she neuters them and gets a power gain of her own. Otherwise I'll phase the sp3. Magik's utility is the power drain and power lock of sp2. In anything other than war (and maybe Abyss) you can get the same utility out of her as an r4, and just have a longer fight. I ranked Mojo just for the boss node for Flow. He is going to be completely useless there now. And he's a cakewalk on Siphon.

SuperiorSymbiote

It’s called spamming but hey it’s not a rant so I won’t count it

DrAwkwardPhD

I quit my Plat4 Alliance about a month ago, because the effort and stress that comes along with AW makes the game far less enjoyable to me, personally.

First time in 4 years that I’ve been without an alliance for 2+ weeks, and I am loving it. Play the content that I enjoy playing, and no extra stress from making sure my energy is used up, and not holding anyone else up with link nodes, waiting on links to a boss to come down.

Stuff get tedious and very tiresome.

GroundedWisdom

Amazing_Demon05 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

People might not like the challenge it adds. That's a separate debate. If someone says it's not challenging, that's not something that can be logically debated. We wouldn't even be discussing it if it was easy to get past.

and on what basis are "you" saying that's it's challenging
you have ignored everything everyone keep saying that its not challenging its just basically impossible to control rng
skill isn't there at all

but oh no ok you will keep repeating the same thing that its challenging because you very obviously have never experienced it and no matter what so many people keep saying a person with no exp will try to keep telling us that its just challenging and bring "counters"
Damn man why didn't we think of that? All the rest of the player base might as well bow down to you for presenting us with advice like this all the time.

It's not challenging, but it IS challenging to have the right counter. Not but it is. How dat work doe?
If you haven't noticed, the game is designed around specific counters. That's one aspect of adding difficulty. You can argue that's not "skill" it's "RNG", but it's another layer. Been that way a long time. We just don't notice unless we don't have the right counter, or have it Ranked.

Mirage_Turtle

Duff12475 said:

With the horrible reviews on #Flow, something needs to be done in order to keep the player base interested in war mode. I know Kabaam has posted something with their adjustment idea, but I don't think its quite enough in my opinion.

I feel that if they made the power gain a regular buff instead of a passive, it would open the door to several other counters as it could be staggered/nullified. It's a simple adjustment and this would be a lot more manageable all around for us... Thoughts??

This was one of several suggestions listed before this latest season started. Like all the other suggestions, it fell on deaf ears.

pseudosane

Keep this discussion in the first page. This has NOT been resolved.

FactorQ

this actually seems like a buff to Flow lol I'd rather use passive stun than have to rely on the defender attacking to perform a parry

pseudosane

FactorQ said:

this actually seems like a buff to Flow lol I'd rather use passive stun than have to rely on the defender attacking to perform a parry

Agreed. Especially since they throw mediums and light attacks at random, timing for both well timed blocks is different.

GroundedWisdom

You can do that, but Season Rewards will still go out, and someone will move up. The Rewards are based on Points put up relative to other Points. Even if no one chooses to run Tiers 1-5, someone will still get Master, Plat, etc.

Plantesan

GroundedWisdom said:

You can do that, but Season Rewards will still go out, and someone will move up. The Rewards are based on Points put up relative to other Points. Even if no one chooses to run Tiers 1-5, someone will still get Master, Plat, etc.

🤦‍♂️ Pretty sure the idea is showing kabam the community dislikes their update?

GroundedWisdom

Plantesan said:

GroundedWisdom said:

You can do that, but Season Rewards will still go out, and someone will move up. The Rewards are based on Points put up relative to other Points. Even if no one chooses to run Tiers 1-5, someone will still get Master, Plat, etc.

🤦‍♂️ Pretty sure the idea is showing kabam the community dislikes their update?

Pretty sure they can read the response here, so that's just an attempt to get it nerfed. Pretty futile when they already made an adjustment and said they would revisit it after the next Season and were open to more changes if need-be.