What exactly is debuff immune?

Posting this question because I have noticed several inconsistencies and they are puzzling me. Gathered the following information by testing it out on Road to Labyrinth 4.5 which features a Rhino with the debuff immunity node.

Voodoo: unable to power burn after using sp2 on even combo. Ordinarily, this gives voodoo a buff that burns his opponent's power with each hit.

Vision: able to power burn Rhino. This is confusing since Voodoo is unable to power burn, yet vision can.

Rogue: able to power steal

Dormamu: able to power drain

Hawkeye: unable to power drain. Again, this is confusing because Dormamu was able to power drain, yet hawkeye could not.

This clearly shows that there is some inconsistency as to what "debuff immunity" actually provides immunity. Is this a bug? Or is there some hidden factor that determines this. Would very much appreciate if the developers could shine some light on this topic.

Comments

TheMageHunter

It didn't used to be like that before

Somewhere along the road some of the power drains were started to be considered as a debuff

Grimmbear

Some debuffs are passive, and aren't impacted by debuff immune.

Viper1987

There are no other node effects that might affect abilities? It's been along time since I've completed road.

nameplas

I remember one of the moderator confirming Hawkeye's power drain counts as a debuff

Rotmgmoddy

It's kind of strange that a power drain from one champion is not considered a debuff, while a power drain from another champion is considered a debuff. Power drain by itself has no icon to indicate it is a detrimental effect, so I'd figure it should be passive and stay consistent.

Another thing that is inconsistent is the unblockable special nodes. On enhanced special nodes where either L1 or L2 are unblockable, it is usually the first hit that is unblockable in a special (with a strange exception to champions like Spider-man and Ultron, where their unblockable special hit is their 3rd and 2nd hit of their special respectively)

However, on Unblockable Finale and Unblockable nodes (ie the map 6 dormammu's node), it's not just the first hit that is unblockable, but every hit in the special attack is unblockable. It is inconsistent because both the Unblockable Finale/Unblockable nodes have the same implication as the enhanced special nodes, which would be "cannot be blocked" and "unblockable". Basically, this series of nodes are also inconsistent with their effects in the fights.

Jangbanger

Voodoos power burn doesn't work because in order to do so he needs to convert loas. However, loas are a debuff and will not stack on the opponent.

Jon8299

Actually loas are a buff with no effect. You can convert them (cause I have) but you can't power burn on debuff immune nodes.

Dave_the_destroyer

I have NO idea why we have buffs and debuffs?? They are all basically an action that happens in a fight, bad for one side and good for the other

So why is one a buff and the other a debuff, they are essentially the same thing?

World Eater

Almost certain that Winter Soldier would power burn road to LoL Rhino since he was able to power burn the immune to debuff node in AW, node 52 (pre-15.0)

Deadbyrd9

Isn't Hawkeyes power drain triggered by placing a bleed?

winterthur

Dave_the_destroyer wrote: »

I have NO idea why we have buffs and debuffs?? They are all basically an action that happens in a fight, bad for one side and good for the other

So why is one a buff and the other a debuff, they are essentially the same thing?

Buff should be positive, benefits your champion. Debuff is negative and adverse towards your opponent's champion.

benjamin_lee

Jon8299 wrote: »

Actually loas are a buff with no effect. You can convert them (cause I have) but you can't power burn on debuff immune nodes.

This is not correct. Loas are buffs with no effects. Upon a special 1 by voodoo, it is then converted into a poison debuff. However, on special 2 on an even combo, the loas are not converted into a debuff. Instead, they are converted into a buff for Voodoo - that buff in turn gives Voodoo the ability to burn the opponent's power. At no time is there any mention of a debuff being effected on the opponent. For this reason, it is odd that a "debuff immune" node is immune to his power burn buff.

Deadbyrd9 wrote: »

Isn't Hawkeyes power drain triggered by placing a bleed?

You could be right - unfortunately there is nothing in Hawkeye's description about his abilities that indicates that the power drain is dependent on him first causing a bleed on his opponent. It could be that this is the way it is programmed, but that is not reflected or explained in his ability descriptions.

Hoping a moderator sees this thread. There is evidently much uncertainty as to what the proper game mechanic is, and if the game is working as intended at the moment, then an explanation needs to be given as to why there are seemingly so many inconsistencies.

Renegade_Doggy

Dropfaith wrote: »

Deadbyrd9 wrote: »

Isn't Hawkeyes power drain triggered by placing a bleed?

You can power drain bleed immunes with. Hawkeye

Try that on a "debuff immune" node. Entirely different premise that this thread was created on.

IE Map 5, Path 7.

AxeCopFire

benjamin_lee wrote: »

At no time is there any mention of a debuff being effected on the opponent. For this reason, it is odd that a "debuff immune" node is immune to his power

How is this even a discussion? Did you even read Dr. Voodoo's abilities? His S2 converts 3 loas into a debuff on the opponent, and the debuff causes the target to "leak 35% of their power over 10 seconds"

If people just read the abilities before they came to boards crying "bug! glitch! Kabam is cheating!" there would be about 50% less threads on this forum

TheMageHunter

AxeCopFire wrote: »

benjamin_lee wrote: »

At no time is there any mention of a debuff being effected on the opponent. For this reason, it is odd that a "debuff immune" node is immune to his power

How is this even a discussion? Did you even read Dr. Voodoo's abilities? His S2 converts 3 loas into a debuff on the opponent, and the debuff causes the target to "leak 35% of their power over 10 seconds"

If people just read the abilities before they came to boards crying "bug! glitch! Kabam is cheating!" there would be about 50% less threads on this forum

And if you actually read his whole comment this thread would been much cleaner. What you mention to is the odd combo debuff while the person you quoted specifically said even combo

Seriously if you cant even read seriously don't bother commenting

Mr_Platypus

AxeCopFire wrote: »

benjamin_lee wrote: »

At no time is there any mention of a debuff being effected on the opponent. For this reason, it is odd that a "debuff immune" node is immune to his power

How is this even a discussion? Did you even read Dr. Voodoo's abilities? His S2 converts 3 loas into a debuff on the opponent, and the debuff causes the target to "leak 35% of their power over 10 seconds"

If people just read the abilities before they came to boards crying "bug! glitch! Kabam is cheating!" there would be about 50% less threads on this forum

Lol, talking about how people should learn to read when it's you that needs to read as you completely missed the part about the even combo

AxeCopFire

Mr_Platypus wrote: »

AxeCopFire wrote: »

benjamin_lee wrote: »

At no time is there any mention of a debuff being effected on the opponent. For this reason, it is odd that a "debuff immune" node is immune to his power

How is this even a discussion? Did you even read Dr. Voodoo's abilities? His S2 converts 3 loas into a debuff on the opponent, and the debuff causes the target to "leak 35% of their power over 10 seconds"

If people just read the abilities before they came to boards crying "bug! glitch! Kabam is cheating!" there would be about 50% less threads on this forum

Lol, talking about how people should learn to read when it's you that needs to read as you completely missed the part about the even combo

This is about even combo? Oh... you're right. I have no idea why it wouldn't work then.

benjamin_lee

AxeCopFire wrote: »

Mr_Platypus wrote: »

AxeCopFire wrote: »

benjamin_lee wrote: »

At no time is there any mention of a debuff being effected on the opponent. For this reason, it is odd that a "debuff immune" node is immune to his power

How is this even a discussion? Did you even read Dr. Voodoo's abilities? His S2 converts 3 loas into a debuff on the opponent, and the debuff causes the target to "leak 35% of their power over 10 seconds"

If people just read the abilities before they came to boards crying "bug! glitch! Kabam is cheating!" there would be about 50% less threads on this forum

Lol, talking about how people should learn to read when it's you that needs to read as you completely missed the part about the even combo

This is about even combo? Oh... you're right. I have no idea why it wouldn't work then.

Yes even combo with regard to Voodoo's Special 2.

Still waiting on a moderator to clarify all this. Would be very much appreciated.

Dave_the_destroyer

winterthur wrote: »

Dave_the_destroyer wrote: »

I have NO idea why we have buffs and debuffs?? They are all basically an action that happens in a fight, bad for one side and good for the other

So why is one a buff and the other a debuff, they are essentially the same thing?

Buff should be positive, benefits your champion. Debuff is negative and adverse towards your opponent's champion.

Thanks matey! You should write the descriptions for Kabam! This is simple, to the point and I can actually understand it!!

Thanks again

Anonymous

I had this discussion a little bit ago in my alliance chat. Basically, voodoo sp2 on even converts 525% of power burnt into energy damage. This is considered an active debuff. At least this is what kabam would consider an active debuff. Vision, rogue, magik, and a few others use passive debuffs to power drain/steal/burn (dorm too). However, the red v from voodoo still reduces ability accuracy by 50% from odd combo on immune to debuffs because that is passive. Hope this clarifies it a little bit.

Anonymous

I wil add that the shield icon is a relatively new thing for immune to debuffs

GbSarkar

Anonymous wrote: »

I had this discussion a little bit ago in my alliance chat. Basically, voodoo sp2 on even converts 525% of power burnt into energy damage. This is considered an active debuff. At least this is what kabam would consider an active debuff. Vision, rogue, magik, and a few others use passive debuffs to power drain/steal/burn (dorm too). However, the red v from voodoo still reduces ability accuracy by 50% from odd combo on immune to debuffs because that is passive. Hope this clarifies it a little bit.

That makes no sense. What's the difference between an active power burn and a passive power burn? Power burn is just power burn. You remove their power and deal some damage. As simple as that
Similarly SW's power steal is considered as a buff for some reason but Vision's is not. No idea why

Anonymous

GbSarkar wrote: »

Anonymous wrote: »

I had this discussion a little bit ago in my alliance chat. Basically, voodoo sp2 on even converts 525% of power burnt into energy damage. This is considered an active debuff. At least this is what kabam would consider an active debuff. Vision, rogue, magik, and a few others use passive debuffs to power drain/steal/burn (dorm too). However, the red v from voodoo still reduces ability accuracy by 50% from odd combo on immune to debuffs because that is passive. Hope this clarifies it a little bit.

That makes no sense. What's the difference between an active power burn and a passive power burn? Power burn is just power burn. You remove their power and deal some damage. As simple as that
Similarly SW's power steal is considered as a buff for some reason but Vision's is not. No idea why

The same way limbo is passive and degen/bleed/poison/incinerate are active.

GbSarkar

Anonymous wrote: »

GbSarkar wrote: »

Anonymous wrote: »

I had this discussion a little bit ago in my alliance chat. Basically, voodoo sp2 on even converts 525% of power burnt into energy damage. This is considered an active debuff. At least this is what kabam would consider an active debuff. Vision, rogue, magik, and a few others use passive debuffs to power drain/steal/burn (dorm too). However, the red v from voodoo still reduces ability accuracy by 50% from odd combo on immune to debuffs because that is passive. Hope this clarifies it a little bit.

That makes no sense. What's the difference between an active power burn and a passive power burn? Power burn is just power burn. You remove their power and deal some damage. As simple as that
Similarly SW's power steal is considered as a buff for some reason but Vision's is not. No idea why

The same way limbo is passive and degen/bleed/poison/incinerate are active.

Limbo is a passive ability. It's neither a buff, nor a debuff. The timer you see under Magik's health bar is only an indicator of the duration for which it is active
What you are saying is akin to saying there are 2 types of bleed—one active and one passive. Not only does it not make any sense (at least to me it doesn't), it's also entirely unnecessary to introduce something like this (if at all this is the case with power burn) because other than immunity nodes, you wouldn't notice any difference between the 2 anywhere else in the game

Also, if DV's power burn was an active debuff, it should also activate willpower on each activation and we know it doesn't

Etaki_Lirakoi

Anonymous wrote: »

GbSarkar wrote: »

Anonymous wrote: »

I had this discussion a little bit ago in my alliance chat. Basically, voodoo sp2 on even converts 525% of power burnt into energy damage. This is considered an active debuff. At least this is what kabam would consider an active debuff. Vision, rogue, magik, and a few others use passive debuffs to power drain/steal/burn (dorm too). However, the red v from voodoo still reduces ability accuracy by 50% from odd combo on immune to debuffs because that is passive. Hope this clarifies it a little bit.

That makes no sense. What's the difference between an active power burn and a passive power burn? Power burn is just power burn. You remove their power and deal some damage. As simple as that
Similarly SW's power steal is considered as a buff for some reason but Vision's is not. No idea why

The same way limbo is passive and degen/bleed/poison/incinerate are active.

You just listed different DOT effects, which is a terrible comparison.

A better one would be if one type bleed counted as a debuff, the other counted as a passive, while not being linked to champion specific abilities, but I can't think of anything like that.

Also, isn't Limbo a passive and bleed, poison, etc. just normal active debuffs?

Anonymous

Passive abilities have been around for a while. Black widow was able to passively negate other champs abilities. Kabam has added more passive debuffs (and now buffs with kingpin).

Anonymous

Etaki_Lirakoi wrote: »

Anonymous wrote: »

GbSarkar wrote: »

Anonymous wrote: »

I had this discussion a little bit ago in my alliance chat. Basically, voodoo sp2 on even converts 525% of power burnt into energy damage. This is considered an active debuff. At least this is what kabam would consider an active debuff. Vision, rogue, magik, and a few others use passive debuffs to power drain/steal/burn (dorm too). However, the red v from voodoo still reduces ability accuracy by 50% from odd combo on immune to debuffs because that is passive. Hope this clarifies it a little bit.

That makes no sense. What's the difference between an active power burn and a passive power burn? Power burn is just power burn. You remove their power and deal some damage. As simple as that
Similarly SW's power steal is considered as a buff for some reason but Vision's is not. No idea why

The same way limbo is passive and degen/bleed/poison/incinerate are active.

You just listed different DOT effects, which is a terrible comparison.

A better one would be if one type bleed counted as a debuff, the other counted as a passive, while not being linked to champion specific abilities, but I can't think of anything like that.

Also, isn't Limbo a passive and bleed, poison, etc. just normal active debuffs?

I was referring to limbo as a passive debuff (which it is), and bleed as an active debuff (which it is).
In the case of power drain or burn or steal, some champs abilities are active, some are passive. Dr Voodoo power burn from even (or odd) are active debuffs. The reason it doesn't trigger willpower is because it's an instant debuff (similar to nightcrawlers deep wound effect)

weavile

I can somewhat explain:
every champ attack in coding will have 3 section: [buff] [debuff] and [passive]. So for example a champ like Wolverine attack will be like: light attack [buff: 8% regen, 8% signature regen] [debuff: bleed: 40% on critical] [passive: crit chance: x%]. When an attack struck, the computer will check these three box. If a champ is bleed immune, when checking the debuff box, they will ignore the bleed section, while a champ with debuff immunity will ignore the whole debuff box entirely. This mean with X-23 the trigger for her cruelty buff: "if a champ is bleed immune gain cruelty instead" is placed inside the debuff box, so it will be ignore when a champ has debuff immunity. And for Hawkeye and Vision, they simply misplace the power burn into the debuff box.

Anonymous

Here you can see that willpower is triggered by power drain from voodoo sp2 on odd combo

Etaki_Lirakoi

Anonymous wrote: »

Here you can see that willpower is triggered by power drain from voodoo sp2 on odd combo

That's cool and all, but it's been stated multiple times that we're talking about the even combo dude.