Fix the old school champs

RANT ALERT: Grind for months to get enough shards to get a 6* and then get a fricken worthless champ that nobody uses. Revamp all the OG's and quit making more spiderman and other knockoffs.

Comments

Xygon

I prefer what they just did with Abom. They didn't fix him, they made a new synergy which made him pretty cool.

Chatterofforums

I prefer what they just did with Abom. They didn't fix him, they made a new synergy which made him pretty cool.

Although this is better than nothing, it's still not a great solution as it requires you to first get the new champ with synergy. Then eventually if you ever get that champ, now you have to carry them on your team all the time. I agree with op, would be nice to actually fix more of the order champs.

Mauled

It’s a short term solution rather than a permanent one. I’d love them to buff a champ every quarter, so far the only buff that I haven’t been 100% in love with is OML, the rest have been brilliant though - Colossus is my current favourite champ in the game, that Hulkbuster looks awesome too.

Zeezoos

It would be great if they added new ‘self’ synergies to older champs, improving them (like the abom change) but without the need to take a whole team just to make one old champ viable.

JollyHawk

It’s a short term solution rather than a permanent one. I’d love them to buff a champ every quarter, so far the only buff that I haven’t been 100% in love with is OML, the rest have been brilliant though - Colossus is my current favourite champ in the game, that Hulkbuster looks awesome too.

Just wondering, what did you not like about the OML buff? I have both him and Colossus, and love them both. But I never really used OML before, so I can't really compare him to his previous incarnation.

Chobbly

It would be great if they added new ‘self’ synergies to older champs, improving them (like the abom change) but without the need to take a whole team just to make one old champ viable.

Agreed. How about something like this for our old friend, Iron Patriot?

Dark Reign (self)
All champions gain +10% Attack when fighting against Hero Opponents.
Unique Synergy. Does not stack with duplicate synergies.

Yes, it's a lift and a tweak from BWCV, but it ties back into Iron Patriot's arc in the comics.

Aleor

It would be great if they added new ‘self’ synergies to older champs, improving them (like the abom change) but without the need to take a whole team just to make one old champ viable.

Why make it self synergy? It's literally same effect as minor champion tweak

Zeezoos

It would be great if they added new ‘self’ synergies to older champs, improving them (like the abom change) but without the need to take a whole team just to make one old champ viable.
Why make it self synergy? It's literally same effect as minor champion tweak

It’s a fair point and yes, you’re right. I suggest this because what I’ve noticed quite a bit is life being breathed in to older champions via synergies. What I’ve not seen (other than major reworks which take many, many months and require a beta) is any inclination from Kabam to tweak champions to add small changes into their base kit and make them viable.

I don’t really care how Kabam do it, but I don’t want to have to build a team around one champ just to make them useable.

unknown

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Marvel2289

RANT ALERT: Grind for months to get enough shards to get a 6* and then get a fricken worthless champ that nobody uses. Revamp all the OG's and quit making more spiderman and other knockoffs.

They should take some ideas from the Champion improvement thread, but they probably won't

unknown

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Greekhit

I prefer what they just did with Abom. They didn't fix him, they made a new synergy which made him pretty cool.

Despite the fact the synergy is a good patch, they should instead make these changes a part of abomination’s abilities. Synergies like these show that Kabam can easily buff all old champs, without time/money consuming betas and a buffed champ every half year. Just improve old champs basic abilities, it is really so simple.

rwanders1978

Synergies should be used to improve good champs. Should not be relied upon to make a useless champ have meaning. How long will it take everyone to get a 5/6* Red Guardian to make Abom of any use?

Marvel2289

Synergies should be used to improve good champs. Should not be relied upon to make a useless champ have meaning. How long will it take everyone to get a 5/6* Red Guardian to make Abom of any use?

Gotta good point there

BigPoppaCBONE

Synergies should be used to improve good champs. Should not be relied upon to make a useless champ have meaning. How long will it take everyone to get a 5/6* Red Guardian to make Abom of any use?

Why does Red Guardian need to be in the mix at all? They couldn't get a handle on how little it would take to make UC and Abomination suck less without him?

Air98

They should do what they did with Gamora, simple changes that make the champion actually useful and no beta needed because the changes aren't that big.

ESF

Synergies should be used to improve good champs. Should not be relied upon to make a useless champ have meaning. How long will it take everyone to get a 5/6* Red Guardian to make Abom of any use?
Why does Red Guardian need to be in the mix at all? They couldn't get a handle on how little it would take to make UC and Abomination suck less without him?

It makes no sense to me, man. None. It makes no sense to me at all.

I swear I try to understand it, and I just don’t. I just don’t get it.

I sincerely wish someone with true insight into this decision-making would explain to me how it’s better for the players to have to have multiple characters on a team simply to make another one usable or good or better.

It makes absolutely no sense to me. It never, ever has

Magrailothos

RANT ALERT: Grind for months to get enough shards to get a 6* and then get a fricken worthless champ that nobody uses. Revamp all the OG's and quit making more spiderman and other knockoffs.

They should take some ideas from the Champion improvement thread, but they probably won't

Amen, brother.

They should do what they did with Gamora, simple changes that make the champion actually useful and no beta needed because the changes aren't that big.

Indeed. Plenty of improvement suggestions for those, as well as more in depth reworks in the thread.

Posts on the thread have slowed down a lot, but there's still nearly a thousand posts there, with 150+ full-fledged reworks.

If anyone wants to browse through, the easiest way to navigate them is via this link.

Mrspider568

I prefer what they just did with Abom. They didn't fix him, they made a new synergy which made him pretty cool.

They did the same with unstoppable colossus

MiStaLova

Agree but Kabam not 😂🤣😂🤣😂😘

Mauled

It’s a short term solution rather than a permanent one. I’d love them to buff a champ every quarter, so far the only buff that I haven’t been 100% in love with is OML, the rest have been brilliant though - Colossus is my current favourite champ in the game, that Hulkbuster looks awesome too.
Just wondering, what did you not like about the OML buff? I have both him and Colossus, and love them both. But I never really used OML before, so I can't really compare him to his previous incarnation.

He’s definitely better than his previous incarnation (he’s 2nd fight in LoL if you’re want to see the old version). The choice between regen and damage was the only kicker for me. If he had both he’d be perfect.

It could just be the comparison between him and Colossus though who as a non-suicide user is the best mutant in the game.

DrZola

After something another poster noted, I have begun to think of most of these champs as “proto-champs”—champs with kits that are so basic they really don’t represent a champ in the current game, but rather something akin to the crude building blocks of a champ.

Think of an automobile that still has an engine, a frame and wheels (hence fulfilling its function of ‘transportation), but otherwise lacks nearly all other features.

Examples? Magneto, Classic IM, SIM, Classic CM, Classic Cap, Cyclops for starters. They can move and block and hit for damage, but anything much beyond that is significantly limited. And there are obviously others.

Proto-champs, in my opinion, shouldn’t be among higher rarity rewards in game at all if there isn’t a timely and feasible way to update them. Regrettably, the game team seems unwilling to invest sufficient developer time into making them current over a reasonable timeline.

I could envision something like the recent Namor/Cull recall with these caveats: it would be mandatory, it would remove the proto-champ from the champion pool as a playable character, and it would refund some combination of shards/sig stones/iso/gold to compensate for the removal of said proto-champ from Summoners’ rosters.

I simply don’t think Red Mags as he currently stands belongs in the same 5/6* crystals as champs like Domino or Ghost or Corvus Glaive. Recall, refund and apology is the way I would prefer.

But—if redesign is the only way the team is willing to entertain, I don’t think reforming old proto-champs has to be all that elaborate.

Consider Gamora (revamped well within her basic kit) and Hawkeye (never revamped, two-feature champ that remains at least modestly relevant). These champs illustrate that you don’t have to give champs a dissertation length ability sheet to keep them playable.

Surely, no one brings either into AoL or even Map 5/6, but in class/node restricted content or niche encounters, it isn’t hard to imagine scenarios where either could be useful.

I’m sure this will meet the inevitable “coding changes are not that quick/simple” pushback. That’s why I favor champ recall—clean them out, don’t waste time fixing something irreparably broken, and then...create fresh revenue streams when the team reintroduces someone like New Red Mags in all his glory in the future.

Dr. Zola

BigPoppaCBONE

Kabam could sneak in a changelog entry

"Added and updated solo, unique, and standard synergies for 37 champions."

Then sit back and watch as everyone gets hype.

DrZola

This is OG Cap’s description. You’re not missing a screenshot—that’s it. And the second screenshot mostly restates what the Special Attacks section from the first already says.

How to make him at least playable (a) in the current game, (b) without changing anything other than his existing numerical stats (c) in a way that is consistent with his core character attributes?

My initial thought is to increase Cap’s perfect block chance to make it pretty much perfect all the time. He’s not an outlier with his attack rating, and nothing else really makes him a outrageous counter for anything. But being a guaranteed perfect blocker nearly all the time is consistent with the character. With little else in his kit, it doesn’t seem overpowered.

Beyond that, perhaps you could make Fatigues from the shield a passive effect, thereby eliminating the ability to Willpower heal from them. Or reduce critical rating by a much, much larger number than the existing 216.67 (think: 2500 reduction). An extra tweak could even make Cap’s one of special attacks unblockable, or make him able to block unblockable specials when the opponent is fatigued.

If you wanted to go further beyond the existing language, I would suggest Luke Cage as an instructive model. Imagine if fatigue effects worked like exhaustions, upping Cap’s attack and providing DAAR. What if they increased special attack stun time?

A few of these concepts are already incorporated via newer synergies, of course. How hard is it to put them in the basic kit in lieu of having to, for example, lug Punisher 2099 along on a quest.

I don’t know. I’m certainly no coding expert—perhaps this is orders of magnitude difficult. But it is a shame a Marvel icon has languished in game this long.

Dr. Zola

unknown

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Casal_T

After something another poster noted, I have begun to think of most of these champs as “proto-champs”—champs with kits that are so basic they really don’t represent a champ in the current game, but rather something akin to the crude building blocks of a champ.

Think of an automobile that still has an engine, a frame and wheels (hence fulfilling its function of ‘transportation), but otherwise lacks nearly all other features.

Examples? Magneto, Classic IM, SIM, Classic CM, Classic Cap, Cyclops for starters. They can move and block and hit for damage, but anything much beyond that is significantly limited. And there are obviously others.

Proto-champs, in my opinion, shouldn’t be among higher rarity rewards in game at all if there isn’t a timely and feasible way to update them. Regrettably, the game team seems unwilling to invest sufficient developer time into making them current over a reasonable timeline.

I could envision something like the recent Namor/Cull recall with these caveats: it would be mandatory, it would remove the proto-champ from the champion pool as a playable character, and it would refund some combination of shards/sig stones/iso/gold to compensate for the removal of said proto-champ from Summoners’ rosters.

I simply don’t think Red Mags as he currently stands belongs in the same 5/6* crystals as champs like Domino or Ghost or Corvus Glaive. Recall, refund and apology is the way I would prefer.

But—if redesign is the only way the team is willing to entertain, I don’t think reforming old proto-champs has to be all that elaborate.

Consider Gamora (revamped well within her basic kit) and Hawkeye (never revamped, two-feature champ that remains at least modestly relevant). These champs illustrate that you don’t have to give champs a dissertation length ability sheet to keep them playable.

Surely, no one brings either into AoL or even Map 5/6, but in class/node restricted content or niche encounters, it isn’t hard to imagine scenarios where either could be useful.

I’m sure this will meet the inevitable “coding changes are not that quick/simple” pushback. That’s why I favor champ recall—clean them out, don’t waste time fixing something irreparably broken, and then...create fresh revenue streams when the team reintroduces someone like New Red Mags in all his glory in the future.

Dr. Zola

Well said Dr Zola! Thank you for the elaborate response. Please apply at Kabam ASAP and work for the champion development team!

SpideyFunko

This is OG Cap’s description. You’re not missing a screenshot—that’s it. And the second screenshot mostly restates what the Special Attacks section from the first already says.

How to make him at least playable (a) in the current game, (b) without changing anything other than his existing numerical stats (c) in a way that is consistent with his core character attributes?

My initial thought is to increase Cap’s perfect block chance to make it pretty much perfect all the time. He’s not an outlier with his attack rating, and nothing else really makes him a outrageous counter for anything. But being a guaranteed perfect blocker nearly all the time is consistent with the character. With little else in his kit, it doesn’t seem overpowered.

Beyond that, perhaps you could make Fatigues from the shield a passive effect, thereby eliminating the ability to Willpower heal from them. Or reduce critical rating by a much, much larger number than the existing 216.67 (think: 2500 reduction). An extra tweak could even make Cap’s one of special attacks unblockable, or make him able to block unblockable specials when the opponent is fatigued.

If you wanted to go further beyond the existing language, I would suggest Luke Cage as an instructive model. Imagine if fatigue effects worked like exhaustions, upping Cap’s attack and providing DAAR. What if they increased special attack stun time?

A few of these concepts are already incorporated via newer synergies, of course. How hard is it to put them in the basic kit in lieu of having to, for example, lug Punisher 2099 along on a quest.

I don’t know. I’m certainly no coding expert—perhaps this is orders of magnitude difficult. But it is a shame a Marvel icon has languished in game this long.

Dr. Zola

he’s really good with Longshot. Counters Mordo.

kfd2010

Dr. Zola nailed it by considering them "proto champions"

They were the most basic champs as they developed the game. They blocked. The hit. Some could break armor. Some could regenerate. Some had power gain.

They're utterly useless right now and have no place in any 6* crystals. Pulling an Iron Man (who's most basic utility is his regeneration is a duped ability) is a soul crushing moment. It's a moment that has some people thinking "Maybe I'll take a break" because they spent months to try to pull a champ that will actually help them with new content.

Using synergies for some is an idea, but not perfect. Because most people don't get those new champs for months to a year. And you still have to carry two champs that you may not want to do.

There's no way they can make new content that would make them great answers compared to anything else you already have on your roster so that's out.

Reworking them takes way too much time since they do what? 3 a year? 4?

No matter what they do, they absolutely, positively, should not be in a 6* crystal. But the fact they keep adding absolute trash instead of average champions you may get some use out of shows they really don't care about this gripe. The fact that they added guys like Magneto (one of them - forgot which) and Joe Fixit shows nothing is going to be done about it.

So I feel your pain, OP. I think my first 6* ever was Iron Fist. You can imagine all the late game content I cleared with him.

DrZola

This is OG Cap’s description. You’re not missing a screenshot—that’s it. And the second screenshot mostly restates what the Special Attacks section from the first already says.

How to make him at least playable (a) in the current game, (b) without changing anything other than his existing numerical stats (c) in a way that is consistent with his core character attributes?

My initial thought is to increase Cap’s perfect block chance to make it pretty much perfect all the time. He’s not an outlier with his attack rating, and nothing else really makes him a outrageous counter for anything. But being a guaranteed perfect blocker nearly all the time is consistent with the character. With little else in his kit, it doesn’t seem overpowered.

Beyond that, perhaps you could make Fatigues from the shield a passive effect, thereby eliminating the ability to Willpower heal from them. Or reduce critical rating by a much, much larger number than the existing 216.67 (think: 2500 reduction). An extra tweak could even make Cap’s one of special attacks unblockable, or make him able to block unblockable specials when the opponent is fatigued.

If you wanted to go further beyond the existing language, I would suggest Luke Cage as an instructive model. Imagine if fatigue effects worked like exhaustions, upping Cap’s attack and providing DAAR. What if they increased special attack stun time?

A few of these concepts are already incorporated via newer synergies, of course. How hard is it to put them in the basic kit in lieu of having to, for example, lug Punisher 2099 along on a quest.

I don’t know. I’m certainly no coding expert—perhaps this is orders of magnitude difficult. But it is a shame a Marvel icon has languished in game this long.

Dr. Zola
he’s really good with Longshot. Counters Mordo.

Fatigue stops his passive power gain, right? I like that—it’s kind of like Colossus in that making contact with the shield takes a toll on opponents. Not at odds with canon.

I just think that type of attribute should be in the basic kit, not obtainable only by synergy with a new champ.

Dr. Zola

Marvel2289

This is OG Cap’s description. You’re not missing a screenshot—that’s it. And the second screenshot mostly restates what the Special Attacks section from the first already says.

How to make him at least playable (a) in the current game, (b) without changing anything other than his existing numerical stats (c) in a way that is consistent with his core character attributes?

My initial thought is to increase Cap’s perfect block chance to make it pretty much perfect all the time. He’s not an outlier with his attack rating, and nothing else really makes him a outrageous counter for anything. But being a guaranteed perfect blocker nearly all the time is consistent with the character. With little else in his kit, it doesn’t seem overpowered.

Beyond that, perhaps you could make Fatigues from the shield a passive effect, thereby eliminating the ability to Willpower heal from them. Or reduce critical rating by a much, much larger number than the existing 216.67 (think: 2500 reduction). An extra tweak could even make Cap’s one of special attacks unblockable, or make him able to block unblockable specials when the opponent is fatigued.

If you wanted to go further beyond the existing language, I would suggest Luke Cage as an instructive model. Imagine if fatigue effects worked like exhaustions, upping Cap’s attack and providing DAAR. What if they increased special attack stun time?

A few of these concepts are already incorporated via newer synergies, of course. How hard is it to put them in the basic kit in lieu of having to, for example, lug Punisher 2099 along on a quest.

I don’t know. I’m certainly no coding expert—perhaps this is orders of magnitude difficult. But it is a shame a Marvel icon has languished in game this long.

Dr. Zola
he’s really good with Longshot. Counters Mordo.
Fatigue stops his passive power gain, right? I like that—it’s kind of like Colossus in that making contact with the shield takes a toll on opponents. Not at odds with canon.

I just think that type of attribute should be in the basic kit, not obtainable only by synergy with a new champ.

Dr. Zola

Very much agreed Dr, kabam should update the champs abilities themselves to make them useable without needing a new Champion to synergize with. The only problem is that it takes them so long to do so, look at how long its taking to get the Hulkbuster update live.