Venom the Duck: Define “random” please

Simple question: is this a straight 1-in-6 chance each time the Aberration Effect reaches 100, or is it akin to Sabretooth’s “random” persistent charges, which (if I recall correctly) have weighted random probabilities?

Is it 50-50 between the two classes of buffs, with a weighted probability that isn’t equal among all of the buffs available within each class—meaning a 50-50 chance between Survival and Frenzy classes, but different probabilities among the three different buffs within the individual buff class?

Further, when playing with synergy partners that increase the probability of either a Survival or a Frenzy buff, how does the synergy increased chance work? Is it a straight, additive shifting of chances (for example, assuming there is a 50-50 shot at Frenzy-Survival, does it shift it to 75-25) or is it percentage-based (meaning the 50-50 gets shifted to something like 62.5-37.5)?

Dr. Zola

Comments

Terra

Simple. You always get the ones you don't want.

DrZola

Simple. You always get the ones you don't want.

Well, that’s not just VtD pRNG though, is it?

I’m honestly curious—I’ve finally been testing my 6* and he’s incredibly frustrating. The rotation feels anything but even.

Like I said, it could operate a few different ways:
1) It’s a straight random 1/6 chance every time
2) It’s 50-50 between the two classes of buffs, with something like 40-35-25 chance among the three buffs in each category
3) Each buff has its own unique probability—think something like 28-24-16-16-8-8 (if that even adds to 100)

Maybe someone on the game team knows. Look, he’s one of three awakened 6*’s I have (with Cage and Kingpin). It would be nice to know how he works for certain.

Dr. Zola

Kalantak

So When I add my venompool with VTD (both 5/65 and I dnt use anymore ) I get Almost close to 100% chance to get block prof Or armor buffs! True story. 😂

Scopeotoe987

So When I add my venompool with VTD (both 5/65 and I dnt use anymore ) I get Almost close to 100% chance to get block prof Or armor buffs! True story. 😂

Dumb question, but do you have gameplay if 5/65 venompool? It would be neat to watch.

H3t3r

This is my luck with venom. Luckily i can just throw an l2 to get new ones.

Edeuink

This is my luck with venom. Luckily i can just throw an l2 to get new ones.

You can use a heavy to change your buffs.

DrZola

So When I add my venompool with VTD (both 5/65 and I dnt use anymore ) I get Almost close to 100% chance to get block prof Or armor buffs! True story. 😂
Dumb question, but do you have gameplay if 5/65 venompool? It would be neat to watch.

I remember an old alliance mate setting alarms through the night to run arena when he was first available. He got him.

Good times...

Dr. Zola

H3t3r

This is my luck with venom. Luckily i can just throw an l2 to get new ones.
You can use a heavy to change your buffs.

Yeah I know just thought I would share my luck.

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Whathappened

Highly doubtful that it's even odds to pull a buff. Seems weighted to me, always getting armor up or something not useful. One of the reasons I've never ranked him past 3. Use my 6* on occasion though

unknown

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Ghostboytjie

Mhm Lets see. It looks about right. Not getting what You want. Nothing to see here Kabam

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Colinwhitworth69

I feel like it is random. Some quests I get super lucky with fury, power gain, regen, other times I keep getting armor and block buffs.

DrZola

Right—trouble is, Regen, Fury and Power Gain are typically what you want. Armor Up, Perfect Block and Precision you generally do not want.

In fact, one wonders whether the latter three really provide much real effect to begin with—I have a hard time noticing any.

This is yet another area where the game team is uniquely positioned to provide insight on something they created. None of us have access to how the code works for VtD.

Five-plus years in, still asking for basic information...

Dr. Zola

Mirage_Turtle

I wish you luck, @DrZola

Unfortunately, I don't think you're likely to get an answer. Despite repeated requests and a mountain of data in the form of player trials, Kabam (to my knowledge) has never commented on the Sabretooth issue. I'd be pleasantly surprised if you got an answer here.

DrZola

I feel like it is random. Some quests I get super lucky with fury, power gain, regen, other times I keep getting armor and block buffs.

That’s the question, though, isn’t it? What is “random”?

You may remember a year or so ago, when a guy on the forums tallied up how often his Sabretooth got each level of persistent charges over a couple hundred fights.

ST’s description says he receives the charges “randomly,” which I think is still the same as it was back then. However, the player’s data set demonstrated that Sabretooth got the lower end of charges much more frequently than the higher end over hundreds of fights.

If I recall correctly, after much argument on the thread, the official response was that this result constituted randomness even though the randomness was “weighted” towards certain (read: lower and less advantageous) outcomes. While technically true, that’s generally not how the average layman would have understood a generic term like “randomly” to operate. If I flip a coin, I expect it to be heads or tails at random—I don’t expect the heads side to be weighted so it occurs twice as often.

If I also recall correctly, that guy got jailed on forums for trying too persistently to get answers.

Dr. Zola

DrZola

I wish you luck, @DrZola

Unfortunately, I don't think you're likely to get an answer. Despite repeated requests and a mountain of data in the form of player trials, Kabam (to my knowledge) has never commented on the Sabretooth issue. I'd be pleasantly surprised if you got an answer here.

Found what I think was the old thread: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/119721/so-i-decided-to-test-the-rng-on-sts-persistent-charges-100-times/p1

Looks like you’ve posted on this a few times also.

Any way we could get some insight from the team on VtD?

Dr. Zola

mgj0630

It's a perfectly valid question, but I'll admit, I'm way more curious as to the algorithm in place when banking buffs.

For example, if I have 5 active at the start of the fight (2 regen, 2 fury, and a power gain), which three get banked when I throw a heavy or a special?

I don't think there's any simple logic in place for it. I'm actually fairly certain I've had six total, 2 each of 3 unique, and I would assume that in that case it would simply bank one of each, but I don't think it does.

DrZola

It's a perfectly valid question, but I'll admit, I'm way more curious as to the algorithm in place when banking buffs.

For example, if I have 5 active at the start of the fight (2 regen, 2 fury, and a power gain), which three get banked when I throw a heavy or a special?

I don't think there's any simple logic in place for it. I'm actually fairly certain I've had six total, 2 each of 3 unique, and I would assume that in that case it would simply bank one of each, but I don't think it does.

Also a valid question.

So, I will try to compile here:

1) Are all buffs for VtD equally probable at all times (excluding Synergy related probability enhancements)?
2) Are Synergy enhancements of probability “additive” or “multiplicative” (terminology imprecise, but close enough)?
3) How are buffs added to the RNA bank when VtD already has several in effect and a uses a special to add more (particularly when there are more available to be added than remaining buff slots)?

Sound right?

Dr. Zola

unknown

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DrZola

Good luck getting a straight answer on this. Like you said you may get jailed for even asking and I doubt they even know.

I didn’t mean to imply that asking is a jailable offense—I think there was more to the previous case than just asking, but you’d have to ask that user.

It’s a simple question that should have a simple answer. I don’t need to know the underlying code or anything proprietary, just how the word “random” gets defined for VtD.

Dr. Zola

SpideyFunko

I’ve always thought of it being like a 16.6 percent chance to get a certain buff, and the percentage synergies just add more percents.

So for the aggression synergy, all frenzy buffs now have a 41% chance to activate.

It makes sense to me.

Ycats

It's a perfectly valid question, but I'll admit, I'm way more curious as to the algorithm in place when banking buffs.

For example, if I have 5 active at the start of the fight (2 regen, 2 fury, and a power gain), which three get banked when I throw a heavy or a special?

I don't think there's any simple logic in place for it. I'm actually fairly certain I've had six total, 2 each of 3 unique, and I would assume that in that case it would simply bank one of each, but I don't think it does.

There is an order for which it gets banked and I think it goes from left to right which would be regen, fury, perfect block, precision, power gain, and armor. If you have 2 regen, 2 fury, and 1 power gain you wil only bank 2 regens and 1 fury.

DrZola

It's a perfectly valid question, but I'll admit, I'm way more curious as to the algorithm in place when banking buffs.

For example, if I have 5 active at the start of the fight (2 regen, 2 fury, and a power gain), which three get banked when I throw a heavy or a special?

I don't think there's any simple logic in place for it. I'm actually fairly certain I've had six total, 2 each of 3 unique, and I would assume that in that case it would simply bank one of each, but I don't think it does.
There is an order for which it gets banked and I think it goes from left to right which would be regen, fury, perfect block, precision, power gain, and armor. If you have 2 regen, 2 fury, and 1 power gain you wil only bank 2 regens and 1 fury.

So is that in order of when the buffs were banked? Preference given to the first ones banked in order of when they were banked?

Dr. Zola

Kalantak

@Scopeotoe987 yeh sure
This is variant2

https://youtu.be/fhn5xz0Wv9A
And standard uncollected

https://youtu.be/YVjQ2zK885k
Rol

https://youtu.be/sN597lJ8VhI

Scopeotoe987

@Kalantak Honestly I’m a bit surprised about the health and the regen, but could that sp2 inflict heal block 100% of the time? If so it looks like it could be kept up infinitely. He looks fun but not the best option. I think I’ll r5 my 4* someday. Thanks for the gameplay!

GhostOfYost

So is that in order of when the buffs were banked? Preference given to the first ones banked in order of when they were banked?

Dr. Zola

It is always in the order described above:

Regen
Fury
Block
Precision
Power
Armor

It does not matter what order you bank them in initially. All of the active higher "priority" buffs will be banked first, and then the next highest "priority" and so on. This aspect is not random, and to me, it's what makes VTD not only playable, but fun. I enjoy hunting for the good buffs early on to then bank and re-bank for later. For example, I try to bank power and precision early (side note, the guy who said precision is less useful above is way wrong, a couple precision buffs and he crits all the time and stacks a ton of bleeds) so I can duplicate them before banking fury and regen.

My idea first 3 fights, I would get 3 power gain in the first fight, a precision, fury, and regen in the second, and then bank immediately in the third to duplicate the regen, fury, and precision. That puts me at 9 buffs putting out lots of damage with easy access to the SP2 and SP3, and sustainable regen for the rest of the quest. Then stack on one more fury if I can, or duplicate a regen if I slip and need a bigger health boost to survive.

Baboss187

I get 5 in a row of the same buff or when the buff stays on the same 2 for a number of fights. It’s not about getting what you want, it’s about the fact it says ‘random’ and quite clearly it’s not random.

DrZola

@Baboss187 this thread details a study a friend and I did re: VtD’s buffs.

Headline was they actually are random and work pretty much as advertised with his synergy partners. It did surprise me some, since it often seems like I’m locked on PB or Armor Up. Link below:

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1231312#Comment_1231312

Dr. Zola